The Nightblade Nerfs are coming, better let the good ones negotiate the changes

GrumpyDuckling · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

BohnT · March 2018

Subversus wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

At the duel spot on PC EU it is now a regular occurrence that more than half (50% since you like numbers) of the players there are stamina nightblades. I wonder why...

Is that hard data? Even it is, does a particular dual spot speak for the rest of the game? Do you see where I'm going with this?

Yes it is. That is the place where you usually find out about cancer builds/classes/skills. People come here to win duels. They come on stamblade because they know it's easier to win duels on that for example a templar or a dk.

That's plenty of hard data.

Anyways, back to the topic! We need to come up with suggestions so they won't ruin the class for us that have been playing it for ages.

I'm still for the removal of the CC on incap along with the removal of Major defile from death stroke and Soul harvest.
I don't think Incap Needs an additional effect and Soul harvest would still be good without the defile. This would bring it down to either an incombat buff (incap) or a strong buff after the fight (Soul harvest)

BohnT · March 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

GrumpyDuckling · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

Subversus · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

At the duel spot on PC EU it is now a regular occurrence that more than half (50% since you like numbers) of the players there are stamina nightblades. I wonder why...

Is that hard data? Even it is, does a particular dual spot speak for the rest of the game? Do you see where I'm going with this?

Yes it is. That is the place where you usually find out about cancer builds/classes/skills. People come here to win duels. They come on stamblade because they know it's easier to win duels on that for example a templar or a dk.

That's plenty of hard data.

Anyways, back to the topic! We need to come up with suggestions so they won't ruin the class for us that have been playing it for ages.

I'm still for the removal of the CC on incap along with the removal of Major defile from death stroke and Soul harvest.
I don't think Incap Needs an additional effect and Soul harvest would still be good without the defile. This would bring it down to either an incombat buff (incap) or a strong buff after the fight (Soul harvest)

I'd be fine with removal of defile or cc from incap, but removing both will just make soul harvest a superior choice, much like incap is now. Magblades will have the superior ult, and stamblades will have no reason to run incap over the other one that would barely do less damage but have an "ult on kill" perk attached to it.

Imo they should leave incap with the cc, and put defile on harvest instead. That would be an interesting choice. Or twinkle a little with the empower, maybe.

BohnT · March 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

Hand_Bacon · March 2018

Could it be that the demise of MiaT's, or at least in part, is now allowing NB's to actually perform near what was intended? Nightblades are simply making hay while the sun is once again shining.

BohnT · March 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

GrumpyDuckling · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

Derra · March 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Again either put Piercing Mark in the Alliance War tree or rework Flare to work just like Piercing Mark minus the armor debuff and heal on kill

Nightblade only appears to be too strong because all it’s counters have been nerfed the last two patches.

Doing this also allows ZOS to enhance Nightblade ability to heal and tank at a competitive level

Anything short of what I said in the first paragraph will result in Nightblades being worse off then Mag Sorc is right now...no one wants that

Imo the problem is that counters to cloak are useless against basically everything else.
Flare is good - but otherwise useless.
Radiant magelight is decent but otherwise obsolete.
Mark fits the same bill but it´s that much of a hardcounter that it´s still worth it.
Pots have limitations due to cooldown.

Feanor · March 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

The only one who could give “accurate“ information on class percentages is ZOS as they have the server data. That doesn’t make guesses on the basis of accumulated playing time totally unreliable though. Or do you want to claim that NBs are underpopulated in Cyrodiil?

GrumpyDuckling · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

The only one who could give “accurate“ information on class percentages is ZOS as they have the server data. That doesn’t make guesses on the basis of accumulated playing time totally unreliable though. Or do you want to claim that NBs are underpopulated in Cyrodiil?

The OP is not presenting their information as a guess. Read the first post of the thread.

Derra · March 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

I´d be willing to post my killcounter stats from the last two years over ~ 45million ap made. They´re awefully close to what he claims though.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

I´d be willing to post my killcounter stats from the last two years over ~ 45million ap made. They´re awefully close to what he claims though.

Your own individual statistics do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

Feanor · March 2018

@Derra

No need I guess. It’s a common pattern in statistics driven discussions. If you don’t like the conclusions it’s easier to attack the data as incomplete or inaccurate. Small sample size is a prime candidate for that.

Derra · March 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

I´d be willing to post my killcounter stats from the last two years over ~ 45million ap made. They´re awefully close to what he claims though.

Your own individual statistics do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

If enough people provide their individual statistics they will speak for all of cyrodiil though

But i guess you´re one of those that would only be satisfied when samplesize=people in cyrodiil.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Derra

No need I guess. It’s a common pattern in statistics driven discussions. If you don’t like the conclusions it’s easier to attack the data as incomplete or inaccurate. Small sample size is a prime candidate for that.

The OP is using their personal observation of statistics to make claims about all of Cyrodiil. The conclusion is irrelevant within my particular discussion because the accurate statistics could go either way (in support of, or against the OP's argument).

GrumpyDuckling · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

I´d be willing to post my killcounter stats from the last two years over ~ 45million ap made. They´re awefully close to what he claims though.

Your own individual statistics do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

If enough people provide their individual statistics they will speak for all of cyrodiil though

But i guess you´re one of those that would only be satisfied when samplesize=people in cyrodiil.

I'll be satisfied when made up statistics aren't being presented as fact.

Derra · March 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

I´d be willing to post my killcounter stats from the last two years over ~ 45million ap made. They´re awefully close to what he claims though.

Your own individual statistics do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

If enough people provide their individual statistics they will speak for all of cyrodiil though

But i guess you´re one of those that would only be satisfied when samplesize=people in cyrodiil.

I'll be satisfied when made up statistics aren't being presented as fact.

It´s not madeup. It´s one sample that gives partial insight.

The data itself is a fact for that individual.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

I´d be willing to post my killcounter stats from the last two years over ~ 45million ap made. They´re awefully close to what he claims though.

Your own individual statistics do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

If enough people provide their individual statistics they will speak for all of cyrodiil though

But i guess you´re one of those that would only be satisfied when samplesize=people in cyrodiil.

I'll be satisfied when made up statistics aren't being presented as fact.

It´s not madeup. It´s one sample that gives partial insight.

The data itself is a fact for that individual.

Again. Read the first post. It's not presented that way.

DDuke · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Again either put Piercing Mark in the Alliance War tree or rework Flare to work just like Piercing Mark minus the armor debuff and heal on kill

Nightblade only appears to be too strong because all it’s counters have been nerfed the last two patches.

Doing this also allows ZOS to enhance Nightblade ability to heal and tank at a competitive level

Anything short of what I said in the first paragraph will result in Nightblades being worse off then Mag Sorc is right now...no one wants that

Imo the problem is that counters to cloak are useless against basically everything else.
Flare is good - but otherwise useless.
Radiant magelight is decent but otherwise obsolete.
Mark fits the same bill but it´s that much of a hardcounter that it´s still worth it.
Pots have limitations due to cooldown.

Right on the money.

I think many of those skills could use buffs & should have atleast some use vs non-stealthed opponents as well.
Det pots are fine as they are.

However, Piercing Mark is way too punishing at the moment, especially on non-meta builds that can't sustain only spamming dodge roll to stay alive & don't have other ways besides cloak/dodge roll to avoid getting bursted down (i.e. Rally, which means every DW & Bow oriented build).

I think they should significantly reduce the duration of Piercing Mark, 30 seconds is insane. Usually on my bowblade it means sprinting away with speed pot & 7 medium & then hiding in some corner until you're "allowed" to play the game again.

One way they could revamp that skill is keep it as it is, but make it consume the mark & heal the person who put it if target goes below 50% health. That way it could be useful as an offensive "burst heal" vs everyone, while making it more fair for stealth builds.

Derra · March 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

I´d be willing to post my killcounter stats from the last two years over ~ 45million ap made. They´re awefully close to what he claims though.

Your own individual statistics do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

If enough people provide their individual statistics they will speak for all of cyrodiil though

But i guess you´re one of those that would only be satisfied when samplesize=people in cyrodiil.

I'll be satisfied when made up statistics aren't being presented as fact.

It´s not madeup. It´s one sample that gives partial insight.

The data itself is a fact for that individual.

Again. Read the first post. It's not presented that way.

I haven´t met someone who was able to present samples that would suggest otherwise though.

These small samples are as good as it gets because we can´t aquire any hard data as there are always points to attack (next one being handselected samples).
The only thing that ever happens are people like you putting their fingers in their ears screaming "lalala i can´t hear because i don´t want to".
There is no point expecting scientific standards from a forum board post aswell.

The numbers brought up match pretty closely what anyone i talk to that also tracks those stats experiences in cyrodiil. And i suspect it´s the same for OP.

Minalan · March 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?

In this last patch, basically nightblades became immune to two class specific and one general counter.

* Warden cliff racers are dodgeable. These used to be a nightblade’s bane, now they won’t ever hit you if you’re any good. Never. Hit.

* DK powerlash got a cooldown, and is now dodgeable. A nightblade will almost never get hit by this, the single most damaging regular skill proc that a magDK has, thats also tied to their burst heal. And they absolutely suck against good stamblades with it being dodgeable. Can’t hit you. Can’t heal. **** you ZOS.

* Soul Assault took a huge nerf to the snare, which used to be the whole point in using it. Its easy to escape now without dying.

So now TWO classes are now free AP Piñatas for nightblades that weren’t before. You are GOING to get a lot of these threads, you won’t like it, but neither do they.

Yes, and all of those were good changes because they really were countering medium armor builds too hard. I still see mDKs & Wardens doing well in Cyrodiil, BGs & Duels.

Also, you still get the heal from Power Lash even if it misses btw.

That said, I do agree that dodge roll spam needs to be toned down.

I like how it actually accomplishes something in this patch, but I dislike that people can spam it nonstop without running out of stamina.

So maybe ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier for dodge roll (or increase the duration for the debuff so that people can't use one cloak to just reset the counter & carry on spamming dodge roll until the next Incap).

Also, builds that struggle vs dodge roll tactics should get some undodgeable abilities (on par with Steel Tornado/Brawler which were recently changed to be undodgeable). For instance, bow builds should be able to bypass dodge roll with Acid Spray/Bombard.

You don’t get a heal from power lash if it’s on cooldown, that was part of my point.

Don’t get me wrong MDK is still strong, but it’s no longer a hard counter to nightblades. They used to be a brick wall for nightblades when built and played correctly. Like, one mistake, you get caught, and you die. Now you just break free and roll around a little.

Bottom line: Dodge is the strongest damage mitigation tool this patch. So many counters were removed for “consistency” that it’s ridiculous. It only follows that the cloaking/dodge roll class becomes the most powerful in Cyrodiil.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

@BohnT

I'm starting to get the feeling that you made up numbers in your original post because I've already asked twice where you got those numbers and you haven't responded.

"When going into Cyrodiil stamina nightblades make about 25-35% of the whole playerbase in cyro while there are 10 specs.
When counting magicka nightblades aswell you'll see that 30-40% of Cyrodiils population is nightblades."

And I've answered it 2 times already.
From my killcounter: players killed, killing blows (not counting kill counter deaths as sorcs get 90% of all kills due to wrath even if the nightblade was the reason i died or more than one player was involved)
My death recap and the fights in which i die
The people i see when a zerg is passing by from my faction or one of the enemy faction
And the number of players i recognize from their @name which swapped to playing nightblade

So these are numbers that you made up based on your own experience. They aren't numbers that accurately reflect Cyrodiil, which you are presenting them as.

and how do you come to that assumption? Which data do you have and where did you get it?

You don't understand. Your personal numbers do not speak for all of Cyrodiil. You alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

Your numbers are made up, fictional, based on your own experience. They do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

These numbers are not made from one evening. I've been in cyro almost every for at least 2 hours for the last year. This is not 'oh i'm cold where is global warming?' this is oh there are actually many nightblades more than ever before

You could safely say that you have noticed more Nightblades "than ever before," but why are you making up numbers in your original post and presenting them as fact? You just told me that these numbers are comprised from your kill counter, your death recap, the people you see, and the players you recognize. Again, you alone are incapable of being everywhere on the map, being in every battle, and/or seeing every player to get accurate enough numbers to represent all of Cyrodiil.

It makes it really hard to consider the validity of what you're saying about Nightblades when you aren't presenting accurate information.

I´d be willing to post my killcounter stats from the last two years over ~ 45million ap made. They´re awefully close to what he claims though.

Your own individual statistics do not speak for all of Cyrodiil.

If enough people provide their individual statistics they will speak for all of cyrodiil though

But i guess you´re one of those that would only be satisfied when samplesize=people in cyrodiil.

I'll be satisfied when made up statistics aren't being presented as fact.

It´s not madeup. It´s one sample that gives partial insight.

The data itself is a fact for that individual.

Again. Read the first post. It's not presented that way.

I haven´t met someone who was able to present samples that would suggest otherwise though.

These small samples are as good as it gets because we can´t aquire any hard data as there are always points to attack (next one being handselected samples).
The only thing that ever happens are people like you putting their fingers in their ears screaming "lalala i can´t hear because i don´t want to".
There is no point expecting scientific standards from a forum board post aswell.

The numbers brought up match pretty closely what anyone i talk to that also tracks those stats experiences in cyrodiil. And i suspect it´s the same for OP.

Just because no one presented samples that suggest otherwise doesn't make what the OP is doing right. The conclusion is irrelevant (people can put fingers into their ears all they want) because the real/accurate statistics could go either way (in support of, or against the OP's argument).

Your claim that I don't want to hear the OP doesn't make sense, and its also irrelevant to what I have been saying. All I've done is show that the OP is wrongly using their own personal statistics to speak on behalf of all of Cyrodiil.

ak_pvp · March 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Again either put Piercing Mark in the Alliance War tree or rework Flare to work just like Piercing Mark minus the armor debuff and heal on kill

Nightblade only appears to be too strong because all it’s counters have been nerfed the last two patches.

Doing this also allows ZOS to enhance Nightblade ability to heal and tank at a competitive level

Anything short of what I said in the first paragraph will result in Nightblades being worse off then Mag Sorc is right now...no one wants that

Imo the problem is that counters to cloak are useless against basically everything else.
Flare is good - but otherwise useless.
Radiant magelight is decent but otherwise obsolete.
Mark fits the same bill but it´s that much of a hardcounter that it´s still worth it.
Pots have limitations due to cooldown.

Right on the money.

I think many of those skills could use buffs & should have atleast some use vs non-stealthed opponents as well.
Det pots are fine as they are.

However, Piercing Mark is way too punishing at the moment, especially on non-meta builds that can't sustain only spamming dodge roll to stay alive & don't have other ways besides cloak/dodge roll to avoid getting bursted down (i.e. Rally, which means every DW & Bow oriented build).

I think they should significantly reduce the duration of Piercing Mark, 30 seconds is insane. Usually on my bowblade it means sprinting away with speed pot & 7 medium & then hiding in some corner until you're "allowed" to play the game again.

One way they could revamp that skill is keep it as it is, but make it consume the mark & heal the person who put it if target goes below 50% health. That way it could be useful as an offensive "burst heal" vs everyone, while making it more fair for stealth builds.

Mark, detect pots, and add soul trap, should make you, and only you able to see and hit the cloak user. Why it reveals for everyone I don't know.

Derra · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Again either put Piercing Mark in the Alliance War tree or rework Flare to work just like Piercing Mark minus the armor debuff and heal on kill

Nightblade only appears to be too strong because all it’s counters have been nerfed the last two patches.

Doing this also allows ZOS to enhance Nightblade ability to heal and tank at a competitive level

Anything short of what I said in the first paragraph will result in Nightblades being worse off then Mag Sorc is right now...no one wants that

Imo the problem is that counters to cloak are useless against basically everything else.
Flare is good - but otherwise useless.
Radiant magelight is decent but otherwise obsolete.
Mark fits the same bill but it´s that much of a hardcounter that it´s still worth it.
Pots have limitations due to cooldown.

Right on the money.

I think many of those skills could use buffs & should have atleast some use vs non-stealthed opponents as well.
Det pots are fine as they are.

However, Piercing Mark is way too punishing at the moment, especially on non-meta builds that can't sustain only spamming dodge roll to stay alive & don't have other ways besides cloak/dodge roll to avoid getting bursted down (i.e. Rally, which means every DW & Bow oriented build).

I think they should significantly reduce the duration of Piercing Mark, 30 seconds is insane. Usually on my bowblade it means sprinting away with speed pot & 7 medium & then hiding in some corner until you're "allowed" to play the game again.

One way they could revamp that skill is keep it as it is, but make it consume the mark & heal the person who put it if target goes below 50% health. That way it could be useful as an offensive "burst heal" vs everyone, while making it more fair for stealth builds.

Mark, detect pots, and add soul trap, should make you, and only you able to see and hit the cloak user. Why it reveals for everyone I don't know.

Mark only reveals for the caster - until he pulls you out with an attack.

Hurika · March 2018

Popular doesn't = best or most overpowered.

Honda Odyssey is by far the most popular vehicle on the road near my work due to school proximity. Would you consider it the most powerful or best car? No. It serves a purpose. If a class is fun or suits a lot of play styles, that doesn't make it overpowered, it makes it popular. One may cause the other but also may not. There are more than 1 reason why something is popular.

It just seams of the 2 options - learn to counter a class, ask for devs to make the game easier for you - most tend to ask for the later as it requires less effort.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Again either put Piercing Mark in the Alliance War tree or rework Flare to work just like Piercing Mark minus the armor debuff and heal on kill

Nightblade only appears to be too strong because all it’s counters have been nerfed the last two patches.

Doing this also allows ZOS to enhance Nightblade ability to heal and tank at a competitive level

Anything short of what I said in the first paragraph will result in Nightblades being worse off then Mag Sorc is right now...no one wants that

Imo the problem is that counters to cloak are useless against basically everything else.
Flare is good - but otherwise useless.
Radiant magelight is decent but otherwise obsolete.
Mark fits the same bill but it´s that much of a hardcounter that it´s still worth it.
Pots have limitations due to cooldown.

Right on the money.

I think many of those skills could use buffs & should have atleast some use vs non-stealthed opponents as well.
Det pots are fine as they are.

However, Piercing Mark is way too punishing at the moment, especially on non-meta builds that can't sustain only spamming dodge roll to stay alive & don't have other ways besides cloak/dodge roll to avoid getting bursted down (i.e. Rally, which means every DW & Bow oriented build).

I think they should significantly reduce the duration of Piercing Mark, 30 seconds is insane. Usually on my bowblade it means sprinting away with speed pot & 7 medium & then hiding in some corner until you're "allowed" to play the game again.

One way they could revamp that skill is keep it as it is, but make it consume the mark & heal the person who put it if target goes below 50% health. That way it could be useful as an offensive "burst heal" vs everyone, while making it more fair for stealth builds.

Mark, detect pots, and add soul trap, should make you, and only you able to see and hit the cloak user. Why it reveals for everyone I don't know.

Mark only reveals for the caster - until he pulls you out with an attack.

Yeah, it should allow them to attack but not reveal. The only thing that should reveal is AoEs or the user.

Subversus · March 2018

Minalan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?

In this last patch, basically nightblades became immune to two class specific and one general counter.

* Warden cliff racers are dodgeable. These used to be a nightblade’s bane, now they won’t ever hit you if you’re any good. Never. Hit.

* DK powerlash got a cooldown, and is now dodgeable. A nightblade will almost never get hit by this, the single most damaging regular skill proc that a magDK has, thats also tied to their burst heal. And they absolutely suck against good stamblades with it being dodgeable. Can’t hit you. Can’t heal. **** you ZOS.

* Soul Assault took a huge nerf to the snare, which used to be the whole point in using it. Its easy to escape now without dying.

So now TWO classes are now free AP Piñatas for nightblades that weren’t before. You are GOING to get a lot of these threads, you won’t like it, but neither do they.

Yes, and all of those were good changes because they really were countering medium armor builds too hard. I still see mDKs & Wardens doing well in Cyrodiil, BGs & Duels.

Also, you still get the heal from Power Lash even if it misses btw.

That said, I do agree that dodge roll spam needs to be toned down.

I like how it actually accomplishes something in this patch, but I dislike that people can spam it nonstop without running out of stamina.

So maybe ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier for dodge roll (or increase the duration for the debuff so that people can't use one cloak to just reset the counter & carry on spamming dodge roll until the next Incap).

Also, builds that struggle vs dodge roll tactics should get some undodgeable abilities (on par with Steel Tornado/Brawler which were recently changed to be undodgeable). For instance, bow builds should be able to bypass dodge roll with Acid Spray/Bombard.

Bottom line: Dodge is the strongest damage mitigation tool this patch. So many counters were removed for “consistency” that it’s ridiculous. It only follows that the cloaking/dodge roll class becomes the most powerful in Cyrodiil.

This exactly!!!

I may be a little biased here, since I play magblade 99% of the time, but imo roll dodge is the single most overpowered defense mechanic this patch. Combine that with the ABSURD (!!!) 30% dodge chance that major evasion have and you'll be lucky to ever be able to catch a roller build (note how I didn't say rollerblade, even though they're the main culprits), let alone burst them down.

Also, the "mark me and it's gg" argument doesn't really add up. I shouldn't have to change up my build completely just so I can have a chance to beat one single spec. It's a flawed argument and it shouldn't exist to begin with.

FIRST OF ALL we need to get rid of major evasion. Combat in a fast paced game like ESO shouldn't depend on rng. It's absurd that I hit a player with the same ability 6 *** TIMES IN A ROW while he's standing still and I can't land a single one.

NyassaV · March 2018

Stamblade lost it's hard counter of mDK