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The Problem with Shieldbreaker
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Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
And this is why you shouldnt talk about sorcs, because you dont know what ur talking about. We are talking about competitive builds here. There is a reason why sorcs have the same playstyle for years. There is a reason why top sorcs of the game are still playing a shield based playstyle.
You are using the same pathetic excuse that every single clueless person used in the past when it comes to sorcs and yet, not one of you ever posted even a semi viable build that doesnt rely on shields. You know what they say. Put ur money where ur mouth is and show to everyone why the best sorcs in the game are not that good after all.
Maybe you should be the one not talking about sorcs if your still dieing to SB. You obviously do not know the class as well as you think you do especially if you think your one of the self proclaimed best sorcs in the game.
There's a difference between a duel or only fighting 2-3 people versus fighting a group which seems to be the main complaint about SB. Small scale then yes the traditional shield stacking style works best, but when you greatly outnumbered that style does not work and you will be dead in no time unless you wanna run away from every fight.
I never said not to use a shield, but rather relying strictly on them as your only form of defense is not effective. For large scale battles I only use hardened ward and then mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration for heals. Degeneration is nice when your outnumbered since you can stack the heal on multiple players and also have a chance to heal on your light attack weaves. You also have mutagen ticking and a burst heal if you get below 20%. Combat prayer is also helpful for a burst heal since it can't be interrupted, boosts your resistance, and gives you a damage bonus.
I also use ball of lightning rather then streak since it absorbs projectiles which also helps your survivability. With resto you also have lights champion and if that's not enough heals to fight a SB user then you gotta work on your skills. Maybe look at that big red health bar on your screen once in awhile and if you notice your health going down, but your shield is still up then maybe it would be a good idea to stop applying your shield, throw down some hot's, and go on the offensive. Last I checked SB users are not immune to damage or cc's.
I also use mighty chudan because having that big resistance bonus all the time without having to slot a skill or waste magic is huge. Not to mention whether you're using 1,2, or even 3 shields they will go down and you will be lying on your back waiting to die if you don't have any resistance to help mitigate damage.
So to clear things up I never said I was a great sorc, just that I have enough sense to be able to survive an underwhelming cheese set without a dramatic whining of how it destroys a class when it clearly doesn't. I've also made it very clear that I don't like proc sets and would love to see them removed from pvp, but that's not going to happen. So you have a choice to keep doing what your doing which clearly is not working or adapt your play style.
Never said im dying to SB. Another pathetic excuse every clueless potato usually use. "If you are dying to, L2P bluh bluh bluh". Nice try, but i guess try harder? I also never said that im one of the best sorcs in the game. Seems like you have basic reading comprehension issues.
The entire class relies on shields period. Relies, means that if you are going for a competitive build, you need to use the stupid shields. If you actually believe that you can fight solo on a competitive level without the use of shields and try to rely on mutagen and combat prayer then dont wonder why you are called clueless. You can have them for some additional support if you have the space but you cannot rely on them. You simply cannot survive like that against a decent player or even in a 1vX scenario.
Mighty chudan to get high resistances etc. Yeah i could put on heavy armor too if i wanted. But choices like that fall into the category of gimping ur build and not having a competitive build. And high resistances are completely irrelevant with SB to begin with. Its oblivion dmg. You can stack 50k resistances for all i care. It will still do the same dmg.
Lights champion? You do realise that this is an ult right? Ok you use it, u get healed and then what? Lights champion and ball of lightning are good against SB for one purpose. To gtfo. Which brings me back to the initial argument. The counter to SB is run away. Great counter.
Sorry if I misread, the way you worded it seemed like you were referring to yourself as one of the best sorcs in the game and I also assumed you were dieing to SB because why else would someone be whining about such an easily countered set.
As far as reading comprehension goes, great advice might want to read it back over so you can understand basic game mechanics and not just half of what I said.
I still use a shield, I just don't rely on it as my only form of defense. Relying on one form of defense on any class is certain death or in your case you just run away. How you gonna get better if you keep running? Apparently that's the new meta lately.
Anyway resistance does make a difference with SB because it allows me to drop a shield(no shield no SB damage!) and in conjunction with my hot's go on the offensive. You know those really cool sparkly bang boom abilities that damage and cc players and prevent them from making you a running target. It's not too hard to see if your taking damage under your shield, just gotta take a peek at that pretty red health bar staring right at ya.
From reading your posts seems like your one of them sorc that hides in the back of a Zerg spamming executes and as soon as someone targets you ya run away. That's not playing at a competitive level, but if you keep practicing and are willing to adapt then you won't have to keep running away from cheesy armor sets.
No, i was referring to the actual best sorcs in the game. Multiple and well known people. Look them up and educate urself when it comes to the class. Sorcs are playing prety much the exact same playstyle for years. Everyone agree on that. And here you are still repeating the same bs that every clueless person said in the past but this is the only thing u do. Just talk and talk and talk.
Also i do not sit behind zergs trying to execute people. I am impressed tho, u did try harder. But u can do even better. Try harder again. I am actually playing solo. Which is the reason why i know that letting ur shields down while fighting outnumbered or a good player is just going to get you killed. Something u clearly dont cause u dont really play solo and therefore dont really know the class. But even if u dont u should still know it cause again every competitive sorc in the game relies on shields and always reapply them.
No, resistances and mutagen will not save you. Period. Just stop, u are making urself look stupid with comments like that. I dont know what kind of potatoes you are fighting but any decent player will blow you to pieces if u try to let ur shields down and rely on chudan and mutagen. Light armor 20k-25k hp and 15k-20k resistances and u actually believe that u can afford letting ur shields down. In a meta where people have abilities with 20k+ tooltips u actually believe that combat preayer and mutagen is going to save you. Makes me doubt if u even play the class at all. And im not even going to get into bar space and what you actually drop for those which means that u gimp ur build even futher. Ill make it a little easier for you. Look up Malcolm and watch his opinion on how far you are going to get if u let shields down. Then you can let him know that he is not competitive cause "he cant adapt" and how he needs to L2P. Feel free to watch Pelicans video too to see his opinion about which one is better between harness and rapid regen.
Seriously tho, is it so hard for you to read? I literally said that you can use other forms of defence for additional support, you choose a hot and a crappy self heal and some resistances. Good for you even tho i have no clue what u drop for those. I choose dodge roll cause its the best scaling defense mechanic. Regardless of what u choose tho. Shields is the main defence and letting them down isnt really an option. Funny thing is i am prety sure that you are relying on shield as well and dont actually let it drop and fight. You are probably getting the delusion of being able to play and survive without it cause u dont die the 1-2 seconds is down before u reapply it and u actually thing that this letting it drop for an extensive period is a viable tactic.
To wrap up, you actually believe that letting ur shields down and relying on hots and chudan is viable. Of course u havent actually showed any footage of that build in action. You basically said that it doesnt matter how u die in 1vX cause u would die anw and from ur comments it seems like you dont play or care about solo playstyle in general. The only thing i understand from all that is that you are prety much running around in groups and never actually tried to play solo which would explain why you lack basic knowledge when it comes to the class and why you actually believe that letting ur shields down is a viable tactic or that u get the delusion of this being a viable tactic because u dont die in the 1-2 seconds its down. Sure its a viable tactic. If u want to read a death recap its probably the fastest way to do it.
Regardless of all that tho it all boils down to one thing. SB is a skilless piece of crap and people shouldnt even have to try to counter crap like that cause it shouldnt exist in the first place. And whether u die or not by the set it doesnt change what the set actually does. Or not doing since its not actually doing what its supposed to be doing. It doesnt break shields. It entirely ignores them. But yeah sure, its a L2P issue when people have to gimp their builds just to counter crap like that. The irony tho. Telling people to L2P in threads about about proc sets.
I have a feeling we could do this back and forth for weeks and still get nowhere. All I was trying to show is what works for me every day as a STRICTLY solo player and many others. You could also throw some health pots in the mix for an extra 1k/second, but you seem to think running away is the only solution because you're too wrapped up in the meta and what these op sorcs do and say instead of actually learning the basic game mechanics and being able to think for yourself.
The forums used to be a place where players shared information and helped each other get better, but now everybody wants the easy way out and instead of learning how to actually play the game it's easier to whine in the forums for nerfs instead.
At this point I'll just bow out of the thread, I've already backed up my argument with actual facts, not just he said she said and all you can do is run. That proves absolutely nothing on how SB supposedly negates all your hot's and burst heals, negates los, negates your damage skills, negates your cc's, negates potions, negates poisons, negates your ability to make a well rounded build because it does none of those things.
I'll leave it at that, happy gaming!
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
And this is why you shouldnt talk about sorcs, because you dont know what ur talking about. We are talking about competitive builds here. There is a reason why sorcs have the same playstyle for years. There is a reason why top sorcs of the game are still playing a shield based playstyle.
You are using the same pathetic excuse that every single clueless person used in the past when it comes to sorcs and yet, not one of you ever posted even a semi viable build that doesnt rely on shields. You know what they say. Put ur money where ur mouth is and show to everyone why the best sorcs in the game are not that good after all.
Maybe you should be the one not talking about sorcs if your still dieing to SB. You obviously do not know the class as well as you think you do especially if you think your one of the self proclaimed best sorcs in the game.
There's a difference between a duel or only fighting 2-3 people versus fighting a group which seems to be the main complaint about SB. Small scale then yes the traditional shield stacking style works best, but when you greatly outnumbered that style does not work and you will be dead in no time unless you wanna run away from every fight.
I never said not to use a shield, but rather relying strictly on them as your only form of defense is not effective. For large scale battles I only use hardened ward and then mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration for heals. Degeneration is nice when your outnumbered since you can stack the heal on multiple players and also have a chance to heal on your light attack weaves. You also have mutagen ticking and a burst heal if you get below 20%. Combat prayer is also helpful for a burst heal since it can't be interrupted, boosts your resistance, and gives you a damage bonus.
I also use ball of lightning rather then streak since it absorbs projectiles which also helps your survivability. With resto you also have lights champion and if that's not enough heals to fight a SB user then you gotta work on your skills. Maybe look at that big red health bar on your screen once in awhile and if you notice your health going down, but your shield is still up then maybe it would be a good idea to stop applying your shield, throw down some hot's, and go on the offensive. Last I checked SB users are not immune to damage or cc's.
I also use mighty chudan because having that big resistance bonus all the time without having to slot a skill or waste magic is huge. Not to mention whether you're using 1,2, or even 3 shields they will go down and you will be lying on your back waiting to die if you don't have any resistance to help mitigate damage.
So to clear things up I never said I was a great sorc, just that I have enough sense to be able to survive an underwhelming cheese set without a dramatic whining of how it destroys a class when it clearly doesn't. I've also made it very clear that I don't like proc sets and would love to see them removed from pvp, but that's not going to happen. So you have a choice to keep doing what your doing which clearly is not working or adapt your play style.
Never said im dying to SB. Another pathetic excuse every clueless potato usually use. "If you are dying to, L2P bluh bluh bluh". Nice try, but i guess try harder? I also never said that im one of the best sorcs in the game. Seems like you have basic reading comprehension issues.
The entire class relies on shields period. Relies, means that if you are going for a competitive build, you need to use the stupid shields. If you actually believe that you can fight solo on a competitive level without the use of shields and try to rely on mutagen and combat prayer then dont wonder why you are called clueless. You can have them for some additional support if you have the space but you cannot rely on them. You simply cannot survive like that against a decent player or even in a 1vX scenario.
Mighty chudan to get high resistances etc. Yeah i could put on heavy armor too if i wanted. But choices like that fall into the category of gimping ur build and not having a competitive build. And high resistances are completely irrelevant with SB to begin with. Its oblivion dmg. You can stack 50k resistances for all i care. It will still do the same dmg.
Lights champion? You do realise that this is an ult right? Ok you use it, u get healed and then what? Lights champion and ball of lightning are good against SB for one purpose. To gtfo. Which brings me back to the initial argument. The counter to SB is run away. Great counter.
Sorry if I misread, the way you worded it seemed like you were referring to yourself as one of the best sorcs in the game and I also assumed you were dieing to SB because why else would someone be whining about such an easily countered set.
As far as reading comprehension goes, great advice might want to read it back over so you can understand basic game mechanics and not just half of what I said.
I still use a shield, I just don't rely on it as my only form of defense. Relying on one form of defense on any class is certain death or in your case you just run away. How you gonna get better if you keep running? Apparently that's the new meta lately.
Anyway resistance does make a difference with SB because it allows me to drop a shield(no shield no SB damage!) and in conjunction with my hot's go on the offensive. You know those really cool sparkly bang boom abilities that damage and cc players and prevent them from making you a running target. It's not too hard to see if your taking damage under your shield, just gotta take a peek at that pretty red health bar staring right at ya.
From reading your posts seems like your one of them sorc that hides in the back of a Zerg spamming executes and as soon as someone targets you ya run away. That's not playing at a competitive level, but if you keep practicing and are willing to adapt then you won't have to keep running away from cheesy armor sets.
No, i was referring to the actual best sorcs in the game. Multiple and well known people. Look them up and educate urself when it comes to the class. Sorcs are playing prety much the exact same playstyle for years. Everyone agree on that. And here you are still repeating the same bs that every clueless person said in the past but this is the only thing u do. Just talk and talk and talk.
Also i do not sit behind zergs trying to execute people. I am impressed tho, u did try harder. But u can do even better. Try harder again. I am actually playing solo. Which is the reason why i know that letting ur shields down while fighting outnumbered or a good player is just going to get you killed. Something u clearly dont cause u dont really play solo and therefore dont really know the class. But even if u dont u should still know it cause again every competitive sorc in the game relies on shields and always reapply them.
No, resistances and mutagen will not save you. Period. Just stop, u are making urself look stupid with comments like that. I dont know what kind of potatoes you are fighting but any decent player will blow you to pieces if u try to let ur shields down and rely on chudan and mutagen. Light armor 20k-25k hp and 15k-20k resistances and u actually believe that u can afford letting ur shields down. In a meta where people have abilities with 20k+ tooltips u actually believe that combat preayer and mutagen is going to save you. Makes me doubt if u even play the class at all. And im not even going to get into bar space and what you actually drop for those which means that u gimp ur build even futher. Ill make it a little easier for you. Look up Malcolm and watch his opinion on how far you are going to get if u let shields down. Then you can let him know that he is not competitive cause "he cant adapt" and how he needs to L2P. Feel free to watch Pelicans video too to see his opinion about which one is better between harness and rapid regen.
Seriously tho, is it so hard for you to read? I literally said that you can use other forms of defence for additional support, you choose a hot and a crappy self heal and some resistances. Good for you even tho i have no clue what u drop for those. I choose dodge roll cause its the best scaling defense mechanic. Regardless of what u choose tho. Shields is the main defence and letting them down isnt really an option. Funny thing is i am prety sure that you are relying on shield as well and dont actually let it drop and fight. You are probably getting the delusion of being able to play and survive without it cause u dont die the 1-2 seconds is down before u reapply it and u actually thing that this letting it drop for an extensive period is a viable tactic.
To wrap up, you actually believe that letting ur shields down and relying on hots and chudan is viable. Of course u havent actually showed any footage of that build in action. You basically said that it doesnt matter how u die in 1vX cause u would die anw and from ur comments it seems like you dont play or care about solo playstyle in general. The only thing i understand from all that is that you are prety much running around in groups and never actually tried to play solo which would explain why you lack basic knowledge when it comes to the class and why you actually believe that letting ur shields down is a viable tactic or that u get the delusion of this being a viable tactic because u dont die in the 1-2 seconds its down. Sure its a viable tactic. If u want to read a death recap its probably the fastest way to do it.
Regardless of all that tho it all boils down to one thing. SB is a skilless piece of crap and people shouldnt even have to try to counter crap like that cause it shouldnt exist in the first place. And whether u die or not by the set it doesnt change what the set actually does. Or not doing since its not actually doing what its supposed to be doing. It doesnt break shields. It entirely ignores them. But yeah sure, its a L2P issue when people have to gimp their builds just to counter crap like that. The irony tho. Telling people to L2P in threads about about proc sets.
I have a feeling we could do this back and forth for weeks and still get nowhere. All I was trying to show is what works for me every day as a STRICTLY solo player and many others. You could also throw some health pots in the mix for an extra 1k/second, but you seem to think running away is the only solution because you're too wrapped up in the meta and what these op sorcs do and say instead of actually learning the basic game mechanics and being able to think for yourself.
The forums used to be a place where players shared information and helped each other get better, but now everybody wants the easy way out and instead of learning how to actually play the game it's easier to whine in the forums for nerfs instead.
At this point I'll just bow out of the thread, I've already backed up my argument with actual facts, not just he said she said and all you can do is run. That proves absolutely nothing on how SB supposedly negates all your hot's and burst heals, negates los, negates your damage skills, negates your cc's, negates potions, negates poisons, negates your ability to make a well rounded build because it does none of those things.
I'll leave it at that, happy gaming!
I perfectly understand game mechanics. I highly doubt that you do on the other hand cause if u did you would realise how stupid it is to say that light armor no shield, no healing ward is viable because u have chudan and combat prayer.
Im not wrapped up around anything. It aint about following a meta or what other players do and just blindly follow it. Its about facts. Facts are sorcs rely on shields and letting ur shields go down is going to get you killed. You can call it meta or whatever the hell you want. Thats the reality. The entire class promotes that playstyle. Its the only playstyle sorcs have been playing for years now. You on the other hand are so fixated on trying to be "unique" and you believe that whatever u do is viable just because its "unique". And yes ill throw some lingering pots for an extra 1k HPS (cause you know, those are the ones that give roughly 1k hps and not normal hp pots). Of course it doesnt matter that SB dmg alone is more than double. And of course we are going to ignore all the abilties that you have to drop and other sacrifices to accomodate for all ur "unique" choices. Because all that doesnt matter. As long as its "unique" its viable and all the other people are just to simplistic and dont understand the intense theorycrafting behind it.
And you are right, forums is supposed to be a place for people to share information. You didnt back up jack [snip]. The only thing you did is came in here to change the common belief without any actual proof from the build in action, and basically tell everyone that they need to L2P and how ur build works perfectly and doesnt play like all the top sorcs do but of course u are just not gonna share it or show any footage because we are all bad and meta chasers.
So yeah, do us all a favor and bow out. We've heard enough bs already.
[Edited to remove profanity]Edited by ZOS_KatP on March 17, 2018 1:03PM0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
And this is why you shouldnt talk about sorcs, because you dont know what ur talking about. We are talking about competitive builds here. There is a reason why sorcs have the same playstyle for years. There is a reason why top sorcs of the game are still playing a shield based playstyle.
You are using the same pathetic excuse that every single clueless person used in the past when it comes to sorcs and yet, not one of you ever posted even a semi viable build that doesnt rely on shields. You know what they say. Put ur money where ur mouth is and show to everyone why the best sorcs in the game are not that good after all.
Maybe you should be the one not talking about sorcs if your still dieing to SB. You obviously do not know the class as well as you think you do especially if you think your one of the self proclaimed best sorcs in the game.
There's a difference between a duel or only fighting 2-3 people versus fighting a group which seems to be the main complaint about SB. Small scale then yes the traditional shield stacking style works best, but when you greatly outnumbered that style does not work and you will be dead in no time unless you wanna run away from every fight.
I never said not to use a shield, but rather relying strictly on them as your only form of defense is not effective. For large scale battles I only use hardened ward and then mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration for heals. Degeneration is nice when your outnumbered since you can stack the heal on multiple players and also have a chance to heal on your light attack weaves. You also have mutagen ticking and a burst heal if you get below 20%. Combat prayer is also helpful for a burst heal since it can't be interrupted, boosts your resistance, and gives you a damage bonus.
I also use ball of lightning rather then streak since it absorbs projectiles which also helps your survivability. With resto you also have lights champion and if that's not enough heals to fight a SB user then you gotta work on your skills. Maybe look at that big red health bar on your screen once in awhile and if you notice your health going down, but your shield is still up then maybe it would be a good idea to stop applying your shield, throw down some hot's, and go on the offensive. Last I checked SB users are not immune to damage or cc's.
I also use mighty chudan because having that big resistance bonus all the time without having to slot a skill or waste magic is huge. Not to mention whether you're using 1,2, or even 3 shields they will go down and you will be lying on your back waiting to die if you don't have any resistance to help mitigate damage.
So to clear things up I never said I was a great sorc, just that I have enough sense to be able to survive an underwhelming cheese set without a dramatic whining of how it destroys a class when it clearly doesn't. I've also made it very clear that I don't like proc sets and would love to see them removed from pvp, but that's not going to happen. So you have a choice to keep doing what your doing which clearly is not working or adapt your play style.
Never said im dying to SB. Another pathetic excuse every clueless potato usually use. "If you are dying to, L2P bluh bluh bluh". Nice try, but i guess try harder? I also never said that im one of the best sorcs in the game. Seems like you have basic reading comprehension issues.
The entire class relies on shields period. Relies, means that if you are going for a competitive build, you need to use the stupid shields. If you actually believe that you can fight solo on a competitive level without the use of shields and try to rely on mutagen and combat prayer then dont wonder why you are called clueless. You can have them for some additional support if you have the space but you cannot rely on them. You simply cannot survive like that against a decent player or even in a 1vX scenario.
Mighty chudan to get high resistances etc. Yeah i could put on heavy armor too if i wanted. But choices like that fall into the category of gimping ur build and not having a competitive build. And high resistances are completely irrelevant with SB to begin with. Its oblivion dmg. You can stack 50k resistances for all i care. It will still do the same dmg.
Lights champion? You do realise that this is an ult right? Ok you use it, u get healed and then what? Lights champion and ball of lightning are good against SB for one purpose. To gtfo. Which brings me back to the initial argument. The counter to SB is run away. Great counter.
Sorry if I misread, the way you worded it seemed like you were referring to yourself as one of the best sorcs in the game and I also assumed you were dieing to SB because why else would someone be whining about such an easily countered set.
As far as reading comprehension goes, great advice might want to read it back over so you can understand basic game mechanics and not just half of what I said.
I still use a shield, I just don't rely on it as my only form of defense. Relying on one form of defense on any class is certain death or in your case you just run away. How you gonna get better if you keep running? Apparently that's the new meta lately.
Anyway resistance does make a difference with SB because it allows me to drop a shield(no shield no SB damage!) and in conjunction with my hot's go on the offensive. You know those really cool sparkly bang boom abilities that damage and cc players and prevent them from making you a running target. It's not too hard to see if your taking damage under your shield, just gotta take a peek at that pretty red health bar staring right at ya.
From reading your posts seems like your one of them sorc that hides in the back of a Zerg spamming executes and as soon as someone targets you ya run away. That's not playing at a competitive level, but if you keep practicing and are willing to adapt then you won't have to keep running away from cheesy armor sets.
No, i was referring to the actual best sorcs in the game. Multiple and well known people. Look them up and educate urself when it comes to the class. Sorcs are playing prety much the exact same playstyle for years. Everyone agree on that. And here you are still repeating the same bs that every clueless person said in the past but this is the only thing u do. Just talk and talk and talk.
Also i do not sit behind zergs trying to execute people. I am impressed tho, u did try harder. But u can do even better. Try harder again. I am actually playing solo. Which is the reason why i know that letting ur shields down while fighting outnumbered or a good player is just going to get you killed. Something u clearly dont cause u dont really play solo and therefore dont really know the class. But even if u dont u should still know it cause again every competitive sorc in the game relies on shields and always reapply them.
No, resistances and mutagen will not save you. Period. Just stop, u are making urself look stupid with comments like that. I dont know what kind of potatoes you are fighting but any decent player will blow you to pieces if u try to let ur shields down and rely on chudan and mutagen. Light armor 20k-25k hp and 15k-20k resistances and u actually believe that u can afford letting ur shields down. In a meta where people have abilities with 20k+ tooltips u actually believe that combat preayer and mutagen is going to save you. Makes me doubt if u even play the class at all. And im not even going to get into bar space and what you actually drop for those which means that u gimp ur build even futher. Ill make it a little easier for you. Look up Malcolm and watch his opinion on how far you are going to get if u let shields down. Then you can let him know that he is not competitive cause "he cant adapt" and how he needs to L2P. Feel free to watch Pelicans video too to see his opinion about which one is better between harness and rapid regen.
Seriously tho, is it so hard for you to read? I literally said that you can use other forms of defence for additional support, you choose a hot and a crappy self heal and some resistances. Good for you even tho i have no clue what u drop for those. I choose dodge roll cause its the best scaling defense mechanic. Regardless of what u choose tho. Shields is the main defence and letting them down isnt really an option. Funny thing is i am prety sure that you are relying on shield as well and dont actually let it drop and fight. You are probably getting the delusion of being able to play and survive without it cause u dont die the 1-2 seconds is down before u reapply it and u actually thing that this letting it drop for an extensive period is a viable tactic.
To wrap up, you actually believe that letting ur shields down and relying on hots and chudan is viable. Of course u havent actually showed any footage of that build in action. You basically said that it doesnt matter how u die in 1vX cause u would die anw and from ur comments it seems like you dont play or care about solo playstyle in general. The only thing i understand from all that is that you are prety much running around in groups and never actually tried to play solo which would explain why you lack basic knowledge when it comes to the class and why you actually believe that letting ur shields down is a viable tactic or that u get the delusion of this being a viable tactic because u dont die in the 1-2 seconds its down. Sure its a viable tactic. If u want to read a death recap its probably the fastest way to do it.
Regardless of all that tho it all boils down to one thing. SB is a skilless piece of crap and people shouldnt even have to try to counter crap like that cause it shouldnt exist in the first place. And whether u die or not by the set it doesnt change what the set actually does. Or not doing since its not actually doing what its supposed to be doing. It doesnt break shields. It entirely ignores them. But yeah sure, its a L2P issue when people have to gimp their builds just to counter crap like that. The irony tho. Telling people to L2P in threads about about proc sets.
I have a feeling we could do this back and forth for weeks and still get nowhere. All I was trying to show is what works for me every day as a STRICTLY solo player and many others. You could also throw some health pots in the mix for an extra 1k/second, but you seem to think running away is the only solution because you're too wrapped up in the meta and what these op sorcs do and say instead of actually learning the basic game mechanics and being able to think for yourself.
The forums used to be a place where players shared information and helped each other get better, but now everybody wants the easy way out and instead of learning how to actually play the game it's easier to whine in the forums for nerfs instead.
At this point I'll just bow out of the thread, I've already backed up my argument with actual facts, not just he said she said and all you can do is run. That proves absolutely nothing on how SB supposedly negates all your hot's and burst heals, negates los, negates your damage skills, negates your cc's, negates potions, negates poisons, negates your ability to make a well rounded build because it does none of those things.
I'll leave it at that, happy gaming!
We've heard enough bs already.
Now that's one thing we can agree on. Hopefully you'll figure it out some day, until then bye Felecia
0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
And this is why you shouldnt talk about sorcs, because you dont know what ur talking about. We are talking about competitive builds here. There is a reason why sorcs have the same playstyle for years. There is a reason why top sorcs of the game are still playing a shield based playstyle.
You are using the same pathetic excuse that every single clueless person used in the past when it comes to sorcs and yet, not one of you ever posted even a semi viable build that doesnt rely on shields. You know what they say. Put ur money where ur mouth is and show to everyone why the best sorcs in the game are not that good after all.
Maybe you should be the one not talking about sorcs if your still dieing to SB. You obviously do not know the class as well as you think you do especially if you think your one of the self proclaimed best sorcs in the game.
There's a difference between a duel or only fighting 2-3 people versus fighting a group which seems to be the main complaint about SB. Small scale then yes the traditional shield stacking style works best, but when you greatly outnumbered that style does not work and you will be dead in no time unless you wanna run away from every fight.
I never said not to use a shield, but rather relying strictly on them as your only form of defense is not effective. For large scale battles I only use hardened ward and then mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration for heals. Degeneration is nice when your outnumbered since you can stack the heal on multiple players and also have a chance to heal on your light attack weaves. You also have mutagen ticking and a burst heal if you get below 20%. Combat prayer is also helpful for a burst heal since it can't be interrupted, boosts your resistance, and gives you a damage bonus.
I also use ball of lightning rather then streak since it absorbs projectiles which also helps your survivability. With resto you also have lights champion and if that's not enough heals to fight a SB user then you gotta work on your skills. Maybe look at that big red health bar on your screen once in awhile and if you notice your health going down, but your shield is still up then maybe it would be a good idea to stop applying your shield, throw down some hot's, and go on the offensive. Last I checked SB users are not immune to damage or cc's.
I also use mighty chudan because having that big resistance bonus all the time without having to slot a skill or waste magic is huge. Not to mention whether you're using 1,2, or even 3 shields they will go down and you will be lying on your back waiting to die if you don't have any resistance to help mitigate damage.
So to clear things up I never said I was a great sorc, just that I have enough sense to be able to survive an underwhelming cheese set without a dramatic whining of how it destroys a class when it clearly doesn't. I've also made it very clear that I don't like proc sets and would love to see them removed from pvp, but that's not going to happen. So you have a choice to keep doing what your doing which clearly is not working or adapt your play style.
Never said im dying to SB. Another pathetic excuse every clueless potato usually use. "If you are dying to, L2P bluh bluh bluh". Nice try, but i guess try harder? I also never said that im one of the best sorcs in the game. Seems like you have basic reading comprehension issues.
The entire class relies on shields period. Relies, means that if you are going for a competitive build, you need to use the stupid shields. If you actually believe that you can fight solo on a competitive level without the use of shields and try to rely on mutagen and combat prayer then dont wonder why you are called clueless. You can have them for some additional support if you have the space but you cannot rely on them. You simply cannot survive like that against a decent player or even in a 1vX scenario.
Mighty chudan to get high resistances etc. Yeah i could put on heavy armor too if i wanted. But choices like that fall into the category of gimping ur build and not having a competitive build. And high resistances are completely irrelevant with SB to begin with. Its oblivion dmg. You can stack 50k resistances for all i care. It will still do the same dmg.
Lights champion? You do realise that this is an ult right? Ok you use it, u get healed and then what? Lights champion and ball of lightning are good against SB for one purpose. To gtfo. Which brings me back to the initial argument. The counter to SB is run away. Great counter.
Sorry if I misread, the way you worded it seemed like you were referring to yourself as one of the best sorcs in the game and I also assumed you were dieing to SB because why else would someone be whining about such an easily countered set.
As far as reading comprehension goes, great advice might want to read it back over so you can understand basic game mechanics and not just half of what I said.
I still use a shield, I just don't rely on it as my only form of defense. Relying on one form of defense on any class is certain death or in your case you just run away. How you gonna get better if you keep running? Apparently that's the new meta lately.
Anyway resistance does make a difference with SB because it allows me to drop a shield(no shield no SB damage!) and in conjunction with my hot's go on the offensive. You know those really cool sparkly bang boom abilities that damage and cc players and prevent them from making you a running target. It's not too hard to see if your taking damage under your shield, just gotta take a peek at that pretty red health bar staring right at ya.
From reading your posts seems like your one of them sorc that hides in the back of a Zerg spamming executes and as soon as someone targets you ya run away. That's not playing at a competitive level, but if you keep practicing and are willing to adapt then you won't have to keep running away from cheesy armor sets.
No, i was referring to the actual best sorcs in the game. Multiple and well known people. Look them up and educate urself when it comes to the class. Sorcs are playing prety much the exact same playstyle for years. Everyone agree on that. And here you are still repeating the same bs that every clueless person said in the past but this is the only thing u do. Just talk and talk and talk.
Also i do not sit behind zergs trying to execute people. I am impressed tho, u did try harder. But u can do even better. Try harder again. I am actually playing solo. Which is the reason why i know that letting ur shields down while fighting outnumbered or a good player is just going to get you killed. Something u clearly dont cause u dont really play solo and therefore dont really know the class. But even if u dont u should still know it cause again every competitive sorc in the game relies on shields and always reapply them.
No, resistances and mutagen will not save you. Period. Just stop, u are making urself look stupid with comments like that. I dont know what kind of potatoes you are fighting but any decent player will blow you to pieces if u try to let ur shields down and rely on chudan and mutagen. Light armor 20k-25k hp and 15k-20k resistances and u actually believe that u can afford letting ur shields down. In a meta where people have abilities with 20k+ tooltips u actually believe that combat preayer and mutagen is going to save you. Makes me doubt if u even play the class at all. And im not even going to get into bar space and what you actually drop for those which means that u gimp ur build even futher. Ill make it a little easier for you. Look up Malcolm and watch his opinion on how far you are going to get if u let shields down. Then you can let him know that he is not competitive cause "he cant adapt" and how he needs to L2P. Feel free to watch Pelicans video too to see his opinion about which one is better between harness and rapid regen.
Seriously tho, is it so hard for you to read? I literally said that you can use other forms of defence for additional support, you choose a hot and a crappy self heal and some resistances. Good for you even tho i have no clue what u drop for those. I choose dodge roll cause its the best scaling defense mechanic. Regardless of what u choose tho. Shields is the main defence and letting them down isnt really an option. Funny thing is i am prety sure that you are relying on shield as well and dont actually let it drop and fight. You are probably getting the delusion of being able to play and survive without it cause u dont die the 1-2 seconds is down before u reapply it and u actually thing that this letting it drop for an extensive period is a viable tactic.
To wrap up, you actually believe that letting ur shields down and relying on hots and chudan is viable. Of course u havent actually showed any footage of that build in action. You basically said that it doesnt matter how u die in 1vX cause u would die anw and from ur comments it seems like you dont play or care about solo playstyle in general. The only thing i understand from all that is that you are prety much running around in groups and never actually tried to play solo which would explain why you lack basic knowledge when it comes to the class and why you actually believe that letting ur shields down is a viable tactic or that u get the delusion of this being a viable tactic because u dont die in the 1-2 seconds its down. Sure its a viable tactic. If u want to read a death recap its probably the fastest way to do it.
Regardless of all that tho it all boils down to one thing. SB is a skilless piece of crap and people shouldnt even have to try to counter crap like that cause it shouldnt exist in the first place. And whether u die or not by the set it doesnt change what the set actually does. Or not doing since its not actually doing what its supposed to be doing. It doesnt break shields. It entirely ignores them. But yeah sure, its a L2P issue when people have to gimp their builds just to counter crap like that. The irony tho. Telling people to L2P in threads about about proc sets.
I have a feeling we could do this back and forth for weeks and still get nowhere. All I was trying to show is what works for me every day as a STRICTLY solo player and many others. You could also throw some health pots in the mix for an extra 1k/second, but you seem to think running away is the only solution because you're too wrapped up in the meta and what these op sorcs do and say instead of actually learning the basic game mechanics and being able to think for yourself.
The forums used to be a place where players shared information and helped each other get better, but now everybody wants the easy way out and instead of learning how to actually play the game it's easier to whine in the forums for nerfs instead.
At this point I'll just bow out of the thread, I've already backed up my argument with actual facts, not just he said she said and all you can do is run. That proves absolutely nothing on how SB supposedly negates all your hot's and burst heals, negates los, negates your damage skills, negates your cc's, negates potions, negates poisons, negates your ability to make a well rounded build because it does none of those things.
I'll leave it at that, happy gaming!
We've heard enough bs already.
Now that's one thing we can agree on. Hopefully you'll figure it out some day, until then bye Felecia
Yeah, indeed bye bye. Hope you get the attention you seek so bad with ur combat prayer chudan sorc. And maybe ull also learn what hp pots actually do.0 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Sanctum74
As i mentioned in a post before, i wrote you my Skillsetup and asked you so share your or change my to counter SB and not being completly useless against other ppl.
So here again my Setup. Change my mind pls.
Frontbar: Crystal Fragments, Crushing Shock, Hardened Ward, Rune Prison, Endless Fury - Meteor
Backbar: Healing Ward, Dark Conversion, Ball of Lightning, Curse, Dampen Magicka - Resto Ultimate
So as you mentioned, you are using mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration but also Healing Wards. So i guess i switch out: Dark Conversion and Dampen Magicka at least on backbar to use Resto skills. So less shields, less sustain for me. And frontbar i don´t know, maybe drop Crystal so i don´t have burst? Or Fury so i don´t have execute? Makes sense to me.
And also full chudan wich means for me i can only have 1x 5 piece armor and max 4 piece. Wich also means less sustain, less magicka for me. Are you even able to kill *** in cyro with this? You say you are solo always but i guess right next to the 30ppl zerg right? How are you fine with a set that deals 2k every 0.6 seconds to shield user who rely and their shields to stay alive and have a competitive build?
If you are fine with such set then i want also sets like:
Cloak Breaker:
5 piece - Every light or heavy attack putting a curse on the Enemy for 10 seconds dealing 2500 oblivion damage every seconds while they are in cloak
Blockbreaker:
5 piece - Every light or heavy attack deals 2100 oblivion damage while your enemy is blocking.
Dodgeroll Breaker:
5 piece - Every light or heavy attack putting a curse on the Enemy for 10 seconds dealing 5000 oblivion damage when they are using a dodgeroll
Don´t say these sets are unbalanced. They are completly fine. Just adapt and don´t rely on block, cloak or dodge roll right?2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Sanctum74
As i mentioned in a post before, i wrote you my Skillsetup and asked you so share your or change my to counter SB and not being completly useless against other ppl.
So here again my Setup. Change my mind pls.
Frontbar: Crystal Fragments, Crushing Shock, Hardened Ward, Rune Prison, Endless Fury - Meteor
Backbar: Healing Ward, Dark Conversion, Ball of Lightning, Curse, Dampen Magicka - Resto Ultimate
So as you mentioned, you are using mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration but also Healing Wards. So i guess i switch out: Dark Conversion and Dampen Magicka at least on backbar to use Resto skills. So less shields, less sustain for me. And frontbar i don´t know, maybe drop Crystal so i don´t have burst? Or Fury so i don´t have execute? Makes sense to me.
And also full chudan wich means for me i can only have 1x 5 piece armor and max 4 piece. Wich also means less sustain, less magicka for me. Are you even able to kill *** in cyro with this? You say you are solo always but i guess right next to the 30ppl zerg right? How are you fine with a set that deals 2k every 0.6 seconds to shield user who rely and their shields to stay alive and have a competitive build?
If you are fine with such set then i want also sets like:
Cloak Breaker:
5 piece - Every light or heavy attack putting a curse on the Enemy for 10 seconds dealing 2500 oblivion damage every seconds while they are in cloak
Blockbreaker:
5 piece - Every light or heavy attack deals 2100 oblivion damage while your enemy is blocking.
Dodgeroll Breaker:
5 piece - Every light or heavy attack putting a curse on the Enemy for 10 seconds dealing 5000 oblivion damage when they are using a dodgeroll
Don´t say these sets are unbalanced. They are completly fine. Just adapt and don´t rely on block, cloak or dodge roll right?
You forgot healbreaker: every light or heavy attack puts a curse for 10 on your enemy everytime they heal they take 2.1k oblivion damage
LoSbreaker: Every light attack or heavy attack puts a curse on your enemy as soon as you can't see them anymore they take 2.1k oblivion damage every 0.6 sec
Reflect and absorb breaker: all your skills go through reflects and light or heavy attacks deal 2.1k oblivion damage to enemies with an active absorb or reflect ability
And of course Lifebreaker: Your light and heavy attacks deal 2.1k oblivion damage to everyone who is alive (counter is ofc being dead)
That are some balanced sets right?4 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RNG Breaker:
Buying a crown crate summons a hand out of your screen, slapping you and dealing 2100 direct shame damage to you.
;30 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I want a set that automatically kills a class of my choosing. People can always adapt and reroll a different class.2 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Don't forget damagebreaker, where every time you get hit you heal for 2.1k - oblivion heals so not affected by battle spirit.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭just put on your Perminant 50 mile WIDE tornado with incredibly fast speeds puling everything out of stealth easily kill all the other classes within just 3 hits of that lightning.
your only real challange is those pesky wardens and people like me that wear shielbreaker set.
you get close to us we die.
our only hope is that shieldbreaker set.
Zenimax, please dont nerf shield breaker set0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »just put on your Perminant 50 mile WIDE tornado with incredibly fast speeds puling everything out of stealth easily kill all the other classes within just 3 hits of that lightning.
your only real challange is those pesky wardens and people like me that wear shielbreaker set.
you get close to us we die.
our only hope is that shieldbreaker set.
Zenimax, please dont nerf shield breaker set
I don't think you pose a challenge to any of us in this thread, tbh...0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »just put on your Perminant 50 mile WIDE tornado with incredibly fast speeds puling everything out of stealth easily kill all the other classes within just 3 hits of that lightning.
your only real challange is those pesky wardens and people like me that wear shielbreaker set.
you get close to us we die.
our only hope is that shieldbreaker set.
Zenimax, please dont nerf shield breaker set
I don't think you pose a challenge to any of us in this thread, tbh...
your right0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »just put on your Perminant 50 mile WIDE tornado with incredibly fast speeds puling everything out of stealth easily kill all the other classes within just 3 hits of that lightning.
your only real challange is those pesky wardens and people like me that wear shielbreaker set.
you get close to us we die.
our only hope is that shieldbreaker set.
Zenimax, please dont nerf shield breaker set
I don't think you pose a challenge to any of us in this thread, tbh...
your right
I'm not quite sure who just won that little exchange
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »just put on your Perminant 50 mile WIDE tornado with incredibly fast speeds puling everything out of stealth easily kill all the other classes within just 3 hits of that lightning.
your only real challange is those pesky wardens and people like me that wear shielbreaker set.
you get close to us we die.
our only hope is that shieldbreaker set.
Zenimax, please dont nerf shield breaker set
I don't think you pose a challenge to any of us in this thread, tbh...
your right
I’ve just got to ask seriously. I know I come off as kind of a d*** usually, and that’s mostly frustration with you screaming for my class to get wrecked. What is your build, and what issues are you having with sorcerer?
I mean. Nightblades are ridiculously strong now. If I encounter a really good nightblade, the BEST outcome I can hope for is that he gets bored with me and leaves (happens more often than you think).1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread makes me want to scream.
Sure, I can make a no-shield Sorc build with a bunch of Resto skills that outheals Shield Breaker. Then 5 minutes later I run into some OTHER overpowered build and get my clock cleaned.
If they gave the Twilight Matriarch 50,000 HP and made her heal cost HALF as much, then I would say SB has a counter. The way things stand now, Shield Breaker is ridiculously overpowered.
Edited by Emma_Overload on March 18, 2018 5:05PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »just put on your Perminant 50 mile WIDE tornado with incredibly fast speeds puling everything out of stealth easily kill all the other classes within just 3 hits of that lightning.
your only real challange is those pesky wardens and people like me that wear shielbreaker set.
you get close to us we die.
our only hope is that shieldbreaker set.
Zenimax, please dont nerf shield breaker set
I don't think you pose a challenge to any of us in this thread, tbh...
your right
I’ve just got to ask seriously. I know I come off as kind of a d*** usually, and that’s mostly frustration with you screaming for my class to get wrecked. What is your build, and what issues are you having with sorcerer?
I mean. Nightblades are ridiculously strong now. If I encounter a really good nightblade, the BEST outcome I can hope for is that he gets bored with me and leaves (happens more often than you think).
Kind offer, Mina.
It would appear he's not interested, though...
xD0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This thread makes me want to scream.
Sure, I can make a no-shield Sorc build with a bunch of Resto skills that outheals Shield Breaker. Then 5 minutes later I run into some OTHER overpowered build and get my clock cleaned.
If they gave the Twilight Matriarch 50,000 HP and made her heal cost HALF as much, then I would say SB has a counter. The way things stand now, Shield Breaker is ridiculously overpowered.
i watch you daily in imperial city upper areas completely destroy bosses and even large groups of people solo on your sorcerer, watched you control that entire area for hours on end. untill someone shows up with a shield breaker set and make it somewhat fair and you still win 50% of the time even when that happens.
i put on shield breaker set and fight you and i only win 1/2 the times the rest you out heal and out damage me and many others.
this whole idea that "shieldbreaker set is op came from duels and people making rules in duels that you cant use pots or you cant use certain skills and then came along this idea and new thing that wearing shield breaker set in duels meant you were weak and just cant fight, it wasnt long untill it was widely professed that as a general rule if you wear shield breaker then this meant you were bad at dueling.
that false idea then spread into pvp guilds as a general way of gaming and here it is in the forums flaming its lies and ugliness that shield breaker set is "overpowered" and simply bad.
shield breaker set is the only way to balance shield stackers like yourself. it wasnt me that created that it was zenimax. and to this day it is still considered a fair.
2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waiwaiwait. WAIT.
Let me get this straight.
Emma is good enough to solo IC bosses, so really good. Most people die to those bosses, and they surely don't use Shieldbreaker.
And your response is that against good players, not becoming better yourself is the solution, but making a set so every noob in the game gets a chance at killing a good player? Are you for real?
Yeah, I'm sure, next soccer world championship, they're gonna randomly tranquilize brazilian or german players to make the game a bit "fairer" for that little cow town with 50 residents.
Man, is your logic messed up, I don't even know what to tell you.
And what about someone like Kena? He's terrorizing the Centrata if he feels like it. Shall we now introduce the Cloak Breaker set to make it a bit fairer, too? Hm? Or would that be unfair, as you're a Nightblade yourself?
My god, please just don't post any balancing suggestions ever again. Open up YouTube, watch every single PvP montage and guide you can find. Write the big players, they are often willing to offer good advice. And so on.
Educate yourself, git gud, and stop bothering us!
Addendum:
Reading this again, I might sound a bit harsh.
Look, man, I don't think you're a bad person, troll or something. If you weren't posting hollow nonsense about sorcs all the time, I might even like you.
But you gotta understand: you're trying to make the game even less enjoyable for sorcs. You are, with your opinion, trying to deteriorate my fun. And every sorc's fun, too. And those sorcs have voiced their concerns for a long time now, agreeing on one thing, that sorc already IS NOT FUN at the moment, PvE and PvP.
You trying to make this even worse, while obviously having rather limited knowledge on this matter, just makes me really, really angry.
So, really, my honest advice to you, trying to help you:
Don't voice your opinion on this matter for the time being. Lean back, and listen. LEARN. I am putting my money on you having trouble due to lack of knowledge about some specific mechanic. It's cool, everyone has a blind spot. But good players realize that and improve upon it. That makes them good.
Ask for tips, watch other players, read feedback here. I'm certain, if you honestly do that, you'll find your weakness, correct it, and look back upon your older posts realizing how unnecessary many of those were, and laugh in joy. I believe in you.Edited by Lord-Otto on March 19, 2018 12:20PM4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This thread makes me want to scream.
Sure, I can make a no-shield Sorc build with a bunch of Resto skills that outheals Shield Breaker. Then 5 minutes later I run into some OTHER overpowered build and get my clock cleaned.
If they gave the Twilight Matriarch 50,000 HP and made her heal cost HALF as much, then I would say SB has a counter. The way things stand now, Shield Breaker is ridiculously overpowered.
i watch you daily in imperial city upper areas completely destroy bosses and even large groups of people solo on your sorcerer, watched you control that entire area for hours on end. untill someone shows up with a shield breaker set and make it somewhat fair and you still win 50% of the time even when that happens.
i put on shield breaker set and fight you and i only win 1/2 the times the rest you out heal and out damage me and many others.
this whole idea that "shieldbreaker set is op came from duels and people making rules in duels that you cant use pots or you cant use certain skills and then came along this idea and new thing that wearing shield breaker set in duels meant you were weak and just cant fight, it wasnt long untill it was widely professed that as a general rule if you wear shield breaker then this meant you were bad at dueling.
that false idea then spread into pvp guilds as a general way of gaming and here it is in the forums flaming its lies and ugliness that shield breaker set is "overpowered" and simply bad.
shield breaker set is the only way to balance shield stackers like yourself. it wasnt me that created that it was zenimax. and to this day it is still considered a fair.
Let me teach you a little secret about the Sorcs wrecking everything and anyone in imperial city.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Imperial+Physique+Set
Do the math, that’s adding something like 9-10K resources with buffs. Then add in something like necropotence, and you have a Sorc with like 60-70K Max Magicka, depending if they use mage light, Mage mundus, and bound aegis.
That’s god-mode mate, the shields are bigger than you can ever break, and it does more damage than you can mitigate. Fortunately, that setup doesn’t work anywhere outside of imperial city. It’s the set, not the player, and certainly not the class. Shieldbreaker WORKS outside of imperial city and it probably shouldn’t.
The good news is that you can do it too, all it takes is that set, and carry a boatload of TV stones around for the buff. Stamina through the roof. Dodge roll all day.
The fix to shieldbreaker is to require 1000 tel var for it to work. And TV stones only count in IC.
Edited by Minalan on March 19, 2018 4:43PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This thread makes me want to scream.
Sure, I can make a no-shield Sorc build with a bunch of Resto skills that outheals Shield Breaker. Then 5 minutes later I run into some OTHER overpowered build and get my clock cleaned.
If they gave the Twilight Matriarch 50,000 HP and made her heal cost HALF as much, then I would say SB has a counter. The way things stand now, Shield Breaker is ridiculously overpowered.
i watch you daily in imperial city upper areas completely destroy bosses and even large groups of people solo on your sorcerer, watched you control that entire area for hours on end. untill someone shows up with a shield breaker set and make it somewhat fair and you still win 50% of the time even when that happens.
i put on shield breaker set and fight you and i only win 1/2 the times the rest you out heal and out damage me and many others.
this whole idea that "shieldbreaker set is op came from duels and people making rules in duels that you cant use pots or you cant use certain skills and then came along this idea and new thing that wearing shield breaker set in duels meant you were weak and just cant fight, it wasnt long untill it was widely professed that as a general rule if you wear shield breaker then this meant you were bad at dueling.
that false idea then spread into pvp guilds as a general way of gaming and here it is in the forums flaming its lies and ugliness that shield breaker set is "overpowered" and simply bad.
shield breaker set is the only way to balance shield stackers like yourself. it wasnt me that created that it was zenimax. and to this day it is still considered a fair.
Im confused. You try to Xv1 a sorc with a large group as you say, you die and your immediate thought is that sorc is OP. It never crossed ur mind that u and the other guys are bad for example. Its surely a problem with sorc being OP cause obviously you are all very good players and u are not doing anything wrong. Wow. But i guess you didnt accuse the sorc of cheating so its not all that bad.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This thread makes me want to scream.
Sure, I can make a no-shield Sorc build with a bunch of Resto skills that outheals Shield Breaker. Then 5 minutes later I run into some OTHER overpowered build and get my clock cleaned.
If they gave the Twilight Matriarch 50,000 HP and made her heal cost HALF as much, then I would say SB has a counter. The way things stand now, Shield Breaker is ridiculously overpowered.
i watch you daily in imperial city upper areas completely destroy bosses and even large groups of people solo on your sorcerer, watched you control that entire area for hours on end. untill someone shows up with a shield breaker set and make it somewhat fair and you still win 50% of the time even when that happens.
i put on shield breaker set and fight you and i only win 1/2 the times the rest you out heal and out damage me and many others.
this whole idea that "shieldbreaker set is op came from duels and people making rules in duels that you cant use pots or you cant use certain skills and then came along this idea and new thing that wearing shield breaker set in duels meant you were weak and just cant fight, it wasnt long untill it was widely professed that as a general rule if you wear shield breaker then this meant you were bad at dueling.
that false idea then spread into pvp guilds as a general way of gaming and here it is in the forums flaming its lies and ugliness that shield breaker set is "overpowered" and simply bad.
shield breaker set is the only way to balance shield stackers like yourself. it wasnt me that created that it was zenimax. and to this day it is still considered a fair.
Im confused. You try to Xv1 a sorc with a large group as you say, you die and your immediate thought is that sorc is OP. It never crossed ur mind that u and the other guys are bad for example. Its surely a problem with sorc being OP cause obviously you are all very good players and u are not doing anything wrong. Wow. But i guess you didnt accuse the sorc of cheating so its not all that bad.
^^ This. For the last time, the Sorc is not OP. That Sorc is killing so many people and soloing bosses because of one set.
Imperial Physique.
That set does not work outside of Imperial City, it’s available to everyone, and requires no skill to use to enjoy god-mode.1 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unfadingsilence wrote: »100% L2P post here people just move on...
BTW I love when a sorc is getting hit with SB and what do they do?? Stack more shields.... smh like come on STOP STACKING SHIELDS!! put pressure on the kid using SB if that's his only way of killing you then just put pressure on them and kill them or watch them run GG
That's a bad example. One of the issues is getting incap from stealth and then light attacks. If you are at low health you have no time to wait on healing ward. Putting pressure on your attacker is fine and all, but not effective if he has any idea what he's doing. Decent players are using this set and it's effectiveness against an already hurting class is over the top. You have to have either rapid Regen slotted or a resto ult up, or LOS.0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This thread makes me want to scream.
Sure, I can make a no-shield Sorc build with a bunch of Resto skills that outheals Shield Breaker. Then 5 minutes later I run into some OTHER overpowered build and get my clock cleaned.
If they gave the Twilight Matriarch 50,000 HP and made her heal cost HALF as much, then I would say SB has a counter. The way things stand now, Shield Breaker is ridiculously overpowered.
i watch you daily in imperial city upper areas completely destroy bosses and even large groups of people solo on your sorcerer, watched you control that entire area for hours on end. untill someone shows up with a shield breaker set and make it somewhat fair and you still win 50% of the time even when that happens.
i put on shield breaker set and fight you and i only win 1/2 the times the rest you out heal and out damage me and many others.
this whole idea that "shieldbreaker set is op came from duels and people making rules in duels that you cant use pots or you cant use certain skills and then came along this idea and new thing that wearing shield breaker set in duels meant you were weak and just cant fight, it wasnt long untill it was widely professed that as a general rule if you wear shield breaker then this meant you were bad at dueling.
that false idea then spread into pvp guilds as a general way of gaming and here it is in the forums flaming its lies and ugliness that shield breaker set is "overpowered" and simply bad.
shield breaker set is the only way to balance shield stackers like yourself. it wasnt me that created that it was zenimax. and to this day it is still considered a fair.
Im confused. You try to Xv1 a sorc with a large group as you say, you die and your immediate thought is that sorc is OP. It never crossed ur mind that u and the other guys are bad for example. Its surely a problem with sorc being OP cause obviously you are all very good players and u are not doing anything wrong. Wow. But i guess you didnt accuse the sorc of cheating so its not all that bad.
^^ This. For the last time, the Sorc is not OP. That Sorc is killing so many people and soloing bosses because of one set.
Imperial Physique.
That set does not work outside of Imperial City, it’s available to everyone, and requires no skill to use to enjoy god-mode.
U don't even need Imperial Physique set to solo bosses, everyone can do it.
Most of people in IC are PvE boys that don't even heal or attack, because they are afraid of real players.
Of course you can kill bilions and bilions like that.
But that guy forgot NB are the king of the city, because they can easely cloak and loose mobs aggro to turn them agaisnt other players.0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tbh i am also tired of trying to prove that this set is op cause i have the feeling that not many players are understandig it. I can do as much los as i want. If i show myself to burst the SB kid i am getting so much dmg that i am dead before he is dead or i die after i killed him cause every other player around will focus me while i lost 80% of my hp while having 20k shields up.
You know keeping up the shields while also landing a decent combo to kill players takes skill and practice and all this work is just getting destroyed by this set.
i am not talking and dicussing defile. I am just getting cancer from this ***.
So having 20k shields isn't cancerous, but 2100 dps that requires a 5 piece set is? Not to mention you said you don't want to have to slot different skills, pots, or adjust your build to counter it? If your not willing to use the working counters available then there really is no reason to nerf the set.
With the increase of CP and the Zerg mentality it's just getting harder to 1vX so you either have to adapt or deal with it. If your only relying on one form of mitigation then your gonna be toast whether they are using SB or not. For my magic builds I use a combination of shields, hot's, and resistance for mitigation and it works every time against SB.
Curious what the dmg output is on that 20k shield set up, assuming it's even sustainable?...So let's again assume shacklebreaker/lich. Or amberplasm/lich, seducers/lich...you get the picture.
I can promise you beyond a doubt running dmg sets like [insert whatever] isn't shield stacking for very long, or has any mobility.
0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Minalan
Pelican admitted in a video (or the comments, I believe), that shieldcstacking is better than single shield, and he'd be at a severe disadvantage if a competent sorc with two shields came along. His build is optimized for mobility and cooking one potato after another.
I was going to say this. I run one shield as well and without supplementing it with maim, dodge rolling, etc...It's bad against good players. I can farm bads all day with 1 shield. And on my wizards set up..My ward is 12k.0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This thread makes me want to scream.
Sure, I can make a no-shield Sorc build with a bunch of Resto skills that outheals Shield Breaker. Then 5 minutes later I run into some OTHER overpowered build and get my clock cleaned.
If they gave the Twilight Matriarch 50,000 HP and made her heal cost HALF as much, then I would say SB has a counter. The way things stand now, Shield Breaker is ridiculously overpowered.
You can't take that guys build seriously...his empowered frags hit for 4k.1 -
rimmidimdim✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Unfadingsilence wrote: »100% L2P post here people just move on...
BTW I love when a sorc is getting hit with SB and what do they do?? Stack more shields.... smh like come on STOP STACKING SHIELDS!! put pressure on the kid using SB if that's his only way of killing you then just put pressure on them and kill them or watch them run GG
That's a bad example. One of the issues is getting incap from stealth and then light attacks. If you are at low health you have no time to wait on healing ward. Putting pressure on your attacker is fine and all, but not effective if he has any idea what he's doing. Decent players are using this set and it's effectiveness against an already hurting class is over the top. You have to have either rapid Regen slotted or a resto ult up, or LOS.
What's wrong with this? So there is a counter to a set that sucks donkey balls against all other builds? I always thought that was a big enough counter for shield breaker in it's self. Hell, I have to slot deadly cloak to help survive all the leaps from DK's, I guess leaps should be removed because I have to counter for it.
No, SB is fine, most of the arguments in here are just, sorcs are underpowerd so remove shield breaker. I don't agree with this at all.
Cheers.2
