Healers ... outside trials and few hard mode fights ... role?

Sru · March 2018

From the outset, let me say I (used to) main a healer and have enjoyed the role a great deal.

Increasingly, it has become clear that the self-sufficiency enjoyed by most classes and game mechanics themselves are allowing groups to run at least 3DDs, sometimes 4, leaving no need for healers in the vast majority of non-trial situations. Some of the hard mode DLC dungeons still need a balanced group for most players but so rare that it's becoming an in-joke each time we clear something really difficult with just a tank and DDs.

Yes, I know this applies to groups with good DPS and people who know mechanics but this situation will, eventually, be the norm as everyone skills up.

Do others healers feel the same? Are you relegated as a dedicated healer to just trials?

I know my guild will allow me to take the healer out on anything but the simple fact is that it would be limiting the group's effectiveness and add nothing by way of benefit outside a few buffs that matter little in the grand scheme of things.

profundidob16_ESO · March 2018

Sru wrote: »

From the outset, let me say I (used to) main a healer and have enjoyed the role a great deal.

Increasingly, it has become clear that the self-sufficiency enjoyed by most classes and game mechanics themselves are allowing groups to run at least 3DDs, sometimes 4, leaving no need for healers in the vast majority of non-trial situations. Some of the hard mode DLC dungeons still need a balanced group for most players but so rare that it's becoming an in-joke each time we clear something really difficult with just a tank and DDs.

Yes, I know this applies to groups with good DPS and people who know mechanics but this situation will, eventually, be the norm as everyone skills up.

Do others healers feel the same? Are you relegated as a dedicated healer to just trials?

I know my guild will allow me to take the healer out on anything but the simple fact is that it would be limiting the group's effectiveness and add nothing by way of benefit outside a few buffs that matter little in the grand scheme of things.

Clearly you have are stuck in a niche spot running with good players. That's only 1 far end of the spectrum. Just queue for random vet with your healer and you'll feel needed and useful in the blink of an eye

Since the latter scenario covers over 80% of the dungeon runs, there is not a slightest chance that useless healers will become the norm, ever

Jaimeh · March 2018

Sru wrote: »

Yes, I know this applies to groups with good DPS and people who know mechanics but this situation will, eventually, be the norm as everyone skills up.

The more self-sufficient players are, the less need for support roles, as a general rule--particularly in cases where enough damage can overide the need to follow mechanics. However, I think this is only true for a minority of groups, which can clear content effectively with an all-DD set-up, or with 3 DDs and a heal-tank. If you use the group finder a lot, especially for DLC dungeons, you'll find that healers are very much still needed. I have DPS skills on my healer, but I usually don't get to use them as much, because group members require constant support (and the damage I'd do would be minimal anyway, in contrast to the damage a nicely buffed DD could do, who didn't have to worry about their health yo-yo'ing). Thus, although I do agree that in a good group and a non-trial content a healer may be redundant, I think they are a long ways from becoming a niche class.

VaranisArano · March 2018

The vast majority of players are not self-sufficient enough to handle content without a healer, particularly if they are using the groupfinder.

kylewwefan · March 2018

See, when your running with guildies and friends and strong groups, you get this misconception that this is normal. You even seem to think that the playerbase is going to get better.....

I do change up my healer for dungeons and trials. Run SPC always and throw in a Damage set. Julianos or something. Maybe go Willpower and Monster with Maelstrom destro/ Masters Resto.

An extra Destro Ult is worth more than a warhorn in most cases.

Because Damage is King in ESO.

You don’t have to bring a full on Trials healer to dungeons, but be prepared to do your role. Toss out an orb, give some mutagen, pop springs every now and then.

greylox · March 2018

Pugs still need them, more than ever seemingly lately.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

The players that are capable of running vet content without a healer (or tank) are few and far between. Try to do that in a pug group via groupfinder and you'll probably run into 10k dps players who dont even have a heal slotted.

That said, I always set my healers up as damage dealers that can heal. Resto staff back bar with the necessary heals, and sets for that (spellpower cure, primarily), but your other bar should have a destruction staff and damage dealing abilities. My healers can both easily hit 15-20k dps while keeping the group alive outside of very mobile or complex fights, which in many cases is double what your pug DPS player is doing. 20k may not sound like much, but you're basically a hybrid dps-healer and my characters dont run full damage sets (obviously having a resto staff back bar is not ideal for damage output, but damage is the secondary role here).

The same thing goes for tanks; you should either be a healtank capable of keeping 3 dps alive while holding aggro, or you should be a damage tank capable of holding aggro and staying alive while dishing out at least moderate DPS. I have one of each - my warden is the healtank, my dragonknight is the damage tank. the DK runs an inferno staff backbar and a lot of fire aoe effects, because honestly most 4 man content in this game only requires pierce armor, grip, talons, and a self heal on one bar to be a viable tank.

f047ys3v3n · March 2018

Doing 3DD's, and having better success that way, is pretty dependent on the particular dungeon. I think that, for the most part 2dd, heals, and tank, is a better way to roll. Of course if you are talking about the easy, older dungeons, you can really roll whatever you want.

My advice. See your role as more fluid like many magica PVP players do. Have a heals and dps bar and do what works best in a given fight or part of a fight. Really even on my raid healer, the only skill that my heal load out requires on the back bar is Eled. Plenty of room for dps.

FrancisCrawford · March 2018

Healer is a hybrid role, combining healing, damage, battery, and possibly other buffs.

Unless a group is extreme about wanting to finish a run in minimal time, I don't see why a healer wouldn't be useful.

DeadlyRecluse · March 2018

In a 4man dungeon with good players, I see my role as providing emergency heals and a few key buffs/support skills while simultaneously DPSing.

But I view tanking most 4mans the same way. My job is to hold aggro of bosses and key mobs while providing a few key buffs...and simultaneously DPSing.

The better your group, the less you have to invest in "pure" tanking or healing in most vet dungeons. Some fights/dungeons are, of course, exceptions.

jhnartb14_ESO · March 2018

My job as a healer is combat prayer and luminous shards.

Asardes · March 2018

jhnartb14_ESO wrote: »

My job as a healer is combat prayer and luminous shards.

Will boost that 10K DPS to 10.8K. Mobs will melt, bosses will drop like blades of grass under the scythe ...

VaranisArano · March 2018

Asardes wrote: »

jhnartb14_ESO wrote: »

My job as a healer is combat prayer and luminous shards.

Will boost that 10K DPS to 10.8K. Mobs will melt, bosses will drop like blades of grass under the scythe ...

If the group's total DPS is 10k, I'm going to assume they also desperately need a healer to keep them alive. So the choice becomes "Do I keep the noobs alive and suffer through the long dungeon or do I let them die and proceed to basically solo the thing?"

jhnartb14_ESO · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

jhnartb14_ESO wrote: »

My job as a healer is combat prayer and luminous shards.

Will boost that 10K DPS to 10.8K. Mobs will melt, bosses will drop like blades of grass under the scythe ...

If the group's total DPS is 10k, I'm going to assume they also desperately need a healer to keep them alive. So the choice becomes "Do I keep the noobs alive and suffer through the long dungeon or do I let them die and proceed to basically solo the thing?"

Of course there is more I do. I also use aggressive warhorn. But seriously, in a well formed group, pug or no, a healer is just there for the buffs and to keep em topped off. I serve shards and front bar destro for ele drain and wall, etc.

We did have a 30 min boss fight on vet direfrost because <100 cp dps did not save stam to break her heal mechanic. So I was there to teach and support and keep DOTs up.

Asardes · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

jhnartb14_ESO wrote: »

My job as a healer is combat prayer and luminous shards.

Will boost that 10K DPS to 10.8K. Mobs will melt, bosses will drop like blades of grass under the scythe ...

If the group's total DPS is 10k, I'm going to assume they also desperately need a healer to keep them alive. So the choice becomes "Do I keep the noobs alive and suffer through the long dungeon or do I let them die and proceed to basically solo the thing?"

Certainly the 2nd. When I port into the dungeon I simply tell them to stack on me so they get healed by Ritual of Retribution, and Purifying Light, and they don't kite the mobs from my Thunderous Rage when I cast it. That's the only requirement. Players who do kite stuff actually do negative DPS since the mobs they draw to the end of the dungeon don't stay and eat the huge damage from the ultimate. I'm a mediocre DD, and only pull something like ~25-30K on stationary targets and much less on moving ones, but compared to the usual group finder player that probably looks god like. In any case I don't PuG anything but normal dungeons and easier part one veteran ones, and they are just farming runs basically. I only queue in tool for the extra damage and the fact it resets the instance right away, instead of waiting for 5 minutes; if I tick every role box and spam "F" right after leaving the old group I don't even get ported out in most cases, but instead at the start of the new instance with the new group. But that kind of implicit off-healing works with good groups if they have self heals and don't eat damage like there's no tomorrow. For example I did [Unbowed] a couple of weeks ago during the pledges. I didn't even realize it until the others told me not to activate the scroll at the end so people get the skin. I only go full healer in trials and if I'm chasing a no death achievement in one of the harder dungeons, ex. [Not a Statistic] last week which felt really easy since I was with some friends that are quite good.

Acharnor · March 2018

I PUG a lot with my healer and there are times I am not needed in that capacity and dogpile on the boss with everyone else. I would not say that is the norm though. Many times I am healing for all I am worth. Both runs are fun for me.