Harvesting and the Art of Courtesy

wandering.mind_ESO · March 2018

I've been playing and harvesting in mmo's since 1999, and yes this makes me a dinosaur. Having established my credentials, I'd like to share a few frustrations with regards to harvesting. ESO has done an excellent job of node regeneration imho and so...the following actions seem rather silly if not down right rude. Yes, I know you can't fix stupid but I am hoping that this will, at least, clue some players to when they exhibit certain actions it causes them to look rude and stupid.

When another player is clearly headed for a node don't sprint to beat them. Instead, move on to the next node.
When another player is standing in front of a node, fighting to clear their path, don't walk through and take the node. Instead, move on to the next node
When another player has their tool raised in the act of harvesting...do not steal from beneath them. Move on to the next node.
While harvesting, being invis.d does not help increase the players chances of beating another to a chest, node or trove. Instead it only makes them appear stupid.
When a player comes across someone attempting to open a treasure chest ...please do not stand over them with the hopes of their failing. Would you actually consider rushing in to take over the treasure chest and if so..would you like someone doing that to you in return? Karma is a powerful thing and others make note of your name...reputation can be important and good will in the player community should mean something.

All seasoned players know that the regeneration rate for nodes in this game provide enough for everyone if given a bit of patience. There is always another node down the road.

In closing, a game can only bring so much atmosphere to the experience the rest is up to the player community. I've experienced both good and bad player based communities in mmo's and trust me...most do not stay long when others show a less than friendly, respectful interaction. Everyone wins when the player community is respectful, helpful and easy going. Competition is great. Keep it friendly.

Gossamere - 720 Templar
Sidra - 720 Night Blade
Illya - 720 Sorc
Hvit - 720 Templar

LadyAstrum · March 2018

Couldn't agree more, but I know some don't care. If I'm closer to a node, I will take it, but if someone else is closer, or fighting mobs for it, I will either help them kill the mobs or simply go to another node.

Also, I didn't experience people standing over me while I opened a chest, until the Hew's Bane event. It was a little disconcerting, and saddening.

I guess I was spoilt by GW2's system where players don't have to compete for nodes.

Dapper Dinosaur · March 2018

Karma is a powerful thing and others make note of your name...reputation can be important and good will in the player community should mean something.

This is very naive. You have to tick off literally dozens if not hundreds of players before people start recognizing you on-sight.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

Well said.

When it looks to be a contest as to who gets the node, I generally stop, /bow, /wave and move on.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Karma is a powerful thing and others make note of your name...reputation can be important and good will in the player community should mean something.

This is very naive. You have to tick off literally dozens if not hundreds of players before people start recognizing you on-sight.

True enough but likely ALL the people who are affected by someone behaving like that will remember. Not here, but in another MMO a ninja looter got the attention of a guild due to his/her repeated shenanigans. Eventually notes were compared in /gchat and then amongst guilds. Not sure how closely guilds communicate here but it lead to the ninja being ostracised.

AcadianPaladin · March 2018

Well put, Gosse!

neverwalk · March 2018

DUEL, right there

NoTimeToWait · March 2018

Mostly true, except I find it fun when someone trying to beat me to a node. It's a sort of competition who gets there first. I don't see why should any side back off if there is no clear information on who was going to this node first.

So I just try to get there faster as well as my peer. If he gets there first - fine - he is the winner. Otherwise I am the winner.

In other cases when it is clear who was there first (in your example - fighting near the node) it is a good idea to just leave them and move on.

klowdy1 · March 2018

If you can see someone is going for a node, and they are forced to kill a few things first, don't take their node. If you keep running into 5he same player farming as you are, avoid taking the nodes nearest them. If someone refuses to not take your nodes as you clear out enemies around it, say something, then report if needed (for harassment), reblog and hope for a new channel.

Some people are ***, born and raised. Manners aren't taught by parents anymore, so don't expect any from strangers with anonymity on their side. Just do your best not to feed into it.

Elsonso · March 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Karma is a powerful thing and others make note of your name...reputation can be important and good will in the player community should mean something.

This is very naive. You have to tick off literally dozens if not hundreds of players before people start recognizing you on-sight.

I take note of the player name when this happens. I have an add-on that will remind me, next time I see them.

Zhaedri · March 2018

This reminds me of the few times it has happened that I was fighting a monster right next to a chest I was going to lockpick and open... and someone runs in and does it while I am finishing the fight.

I once actually said something "Excuse me, I was fighting to get that." and got an "Oh sorry, I needed it for legerdemain skill" ... and left all the level 9 items in there for my level 50 to pick up. At least they were polite despite the lame excuse.

NoTimeToWait · March 2018

klowdy1 wrote: »

If someone refuses to not take your nodes as you clear out enemies around it, say something, then report if needed (for harassment), reblog and hope for a new channel..

This sounds like baiting, which I despise. You tell others what they shouldn't do, then wait for them to react improperly on your baiting, and then you report them (I hope I am wrong but it sounded this way).

This is not a very kind behaviour too, you know. If some people doesn't comply with your point of view, it doesn't mean you should provoke them in turn. Just leave them be.

If you are harvesting prime spots, then you should anticipate that your competitors won't willingly concede resource nodes to you. Choose places with less competition.

In my opinion, trying (directly in game) to make others to comply with your wishes is as bad as acting inconsiderable during nodes collecting (e.g. stealing)

Cryptical · March 2018

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Well said.

When it looks to be a contest as to who gets the node, I generally stop, /bow, /wave and move on.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Karma is a powerful thing and others make note of your name...reputation can be important and good will in the player community should mean something.

This is very naive. You have to tick off literally dozens if not hundreds of players before people start recognizing you on-sight.

True enough but likely ALL the people who are affected by someone behaving like that will remember. Not here, but in another MMO a ninja looter got the attention of a guild due to his/her repeated shenanigans. Eventually notes were compared in /gchat and then amongst guilds. Not sure how closely guilds communicate here but it lead to the ninja being ostracised.

It gets interesting when you check and find the loot poacher is in the same trading guild or such. Then you can call them out right there in gchat “hey node-stealer-name, what the eff is wrong with you? I was killing the mob-name and you slid in and took that chest right from under me. You’ve done this x times now in the past half hour. Did your mom teach you manners and courtesy?”

Doing it in a public manner that can have a negative impact on the thief can more quickly lead to satisfaction.

randomkeyhits · March 2018

Come to Craglorn, then you'll understand what node stealing is really like.

Sheezabeast · March 2018

In Craglorn, it's hard to tell if you're feeling competitive with a real person, or a bot. With the addons people use, they can look very much like a bot at first glance. It would be fun to find out if a bot beat me to a node or just someone who was a little quicker.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Well said.

When it looks to be a contest as to who gets the node, I generally stop, /bow, /wave and move on.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Karma is a powerful thing and others make note of your name...reputation can be important and good will in the player community should mean something.

This is very naive. You have to tick off literally dozens if not hundreds of players before people start recognizing you on-sight.

True enough but likely ALL the people who are affected by someone behaving like that will remember. Not here, but in another MMO a ninja looter got the attention of a guild due to his/her repeated shenanigans. Eventually notes were compared in /gchat and then amongst guilds. Not sure how closely guilds communicate here but it lead to the ninja being ostracised.

It gets interesting when you check and find the loot poacher is in the same trading guild or such. Then you can call them out right there in gchat “hey node-stealer-name, what the eff is wrong with you? I was killing the mob-name and you slid in and took that chest right from under me. You’ve done this x times now in the past half hour. Did your mom teach you manners and courtesy?”

Doing it in a public manner that can have a negative impact on the thief can more quickly lead to satisfaction.

Think I'd try to have a discussion privately with a guildie, even in one of these gigantic trade guilds, before I did that but if that didn't work out, yep, would do it.

Once totally by accident ('nother game) I ninja'd someone and got an earful for it. I mean this guy was royally cheesed off. I said I'd be happy to give him what I'd gotten and...he went silent. Then he thanked me and didn't see him again for, gosh, a year or so? In fact, I'd forgotten his name when I got a really nice bit of equipment in the mail from that guy who said: Decent people deserve decent things.

Karma, it's a thing.

Cpt_Teemo · March 2018

I don't really care much if someone beats me to a node its ffa, but what i do care about is leaving trash in it after you petty picked it for what you wanted and left the rest, to many free loaders

Aurie · March 2018

Very simple. It's nothing more than courtesy, and treating others as you would like to be treated yourself.

End of.

LadyAstrum · March 2018

randomkeyhits wrote: »

Come to Craglorn, then you'll understand what node stealing is really like.

If it's anything like Hew's Bane was during the event, I'll be sure to go armed with my mudballs.

I'm not proud of it, but sometimes I resort to using them. There was a particular player in Hew's Bane who was racing around grabbing nodes, and I happened to come up behind him while he was fighting some mobs. Out of courtesy I moved away from the three nodes he was closest to, and took one that was further away. I guess he didn't like that, and took it personally that I should take a node that wasn't even close to him. That turned into a mudball fight, even though I'd been courteous.

Then there was an occasion where I came across a poor fellow fighting some mobs to access a chest. I joined in to help him, and out of nowhere someone sprang in and took the chest. They got a good mudballing for that.

I've learnt to love using mudballs on node ninjas.

ZOS_Edward · March 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Karma is a powerful thing and others make note of your name...reputation can be important and good will in the player community should mean something.

This is very naive. You have to tick off literally dozens if not hundreds of players before people start recognizing you on-sight.

"You can do good things every day and people won't remember you, but screw someone over once and they'll remember your name for the rest of their life." - Some Person Somewhere... I forget their name because they didn't screw me over.

Fake quote aside, this is an accepted psychological truth about humans, and even some animals. A little courtesy goes a long way.

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

If some people doesn't comply with your point of view, it doesn't mean you should provoke them in turn. Just leave them be.

There is no provocation in politely informing someone that you were clearing mobs out to get to something they just ran by you and took. There is also no provocation in politely asking them to not do that in the future.

Ultimately it's about how you phrase it, but if no one ever points out that what someone is doing is rude, then how will they ever truly know it is?

There are obviously things one can debate, almost endlessly, about what is rude and what isn't in an MMO, but there's nothing wrong with polite interactions and discussions. It's when those turn into personal attacks on others that the line is crossed.

Kodrac · March 2018

neverwalk wrote: »

DUEL, right there

LOL while you two are fighting over it someone will come take it.

VaranisArano · March 2018

If someone gets irritated that I beat them to a node, I usually offer to tell them the gear combo I'm using to run quickly.

But if someone gets irritated with me during a double loot event like TG anniversary, I just laugh it off, because I'm not going to be the only person who beats them to nodes because I've also been beaten to plenty of nodes. If you know you get really bothered by people "stealing" or beating you to nodes, I'd strongly advise skipping out on the double loot event farming. It'll be better for your blood pressure,

Maryal · March 2018

It would be nice, but it's not going to happen.

Before I go on, I will say that many people farming crafting materials try to get the maximum amount in the least amount of time for efficiency reasons. When you have developed a farming route you tend to go on automatic pilot and you really aren't thinking about what you are doing, you are just speeding through your route almost oblivious to what is going on around you.

That being said, there are people who are jerks about stealing nodes/chests from other people ... it's a game to them. They know they are upsetting you and that is the point of their little game. These people will often follow you or follow the direction you are going in order to beat you to (whatever). If you have been moving in a clockwise direction on your route, then suddenly switch to a counter-clockwise direction, a jerk will switch directions to match yours.

My suggestion is to develop a few alternate farming routes in different areas, so if you run into jerks in one area, you have a few other areas you can go to.

Vahrokh · March 2018

That's what I loved about EvE Online, Darkfall Online and Warhammer.

Guy steals the node, you kill them on sight and loot them.

That's actionable courtesy.

Cpt_Teemo · March 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pniyFbvXMUI

Vvardenfell harvester fight

MuchShock · March 2018

You can't instill common courtesy in an environment that has 0 consequences for not doing so. People like that are, imo, probably rude in real life as well.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

MuchShock wrote: »

You can't instill common courtesy in an environment that has 0 consequences for not doing so. People like that are, imo, probably rude in real life as well.

Which is my one, major, objection to the 'Net. Anonymity. Instead of treating folk like you'd want to be treated, too many figure that no one knows who they are and resort to rotten behaviour.

Common courtesy isn't.

Beamer_Miasma · March 2018

wandering.mind_ESO wrote: »

While harvesting, being invis.d does not help increase the players chances of beating another to a chest, node or trove. Instead it only makes them appear stupid.

<snip>

Sidra - 720 Night Blade

Considering you have a 720 NB this seems a little naive. Being hidden (sneak or invis) gives you a 25% speed bonus with the Concealed Weapon morph. Harvesting breaks sneak. Going invis directly after harvesting (you can actually cast the skill while harvesting to go invis as soon as you're finished) instantly gives you your speed bonus back so it certainly decreases travel time between nodes, especially when they're close together.

I agree that racing someone to a node is rude and pointless, after all the one you beat will simply get the next node and you won't, but I use my invis all the time while harvesting and frankly it's the magblades that don't who appear to be the stupid ones to me. On top of that with the half harvesting time CP passive you can pick a node right from under a mob's nose without getting aggro this way (thus removing the need to kill the mob first and risking someone else stealing the node). All in all I'd say this is one of the most useful class skills to have as a harvesting NB.

CaffeinatedMayhem · March 2018

The only thing I will add is: please don't leave your trash in the nodes.

1 - The node will respawn FASTER if you take everything. Trust me, I've been farming hours, daily, for years.

2 - The next person who comes along 2 minutes later will not see Columbine, then pick up YOUR worms and Alchemical Resin, and then start cursing you to get vampirism the old fashioned way.

Really, the addon that automatically only takes the primary loot needs to DIE. Hey @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - why does the API let the player progrmatically choose what they take from nodes and chests?

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

thatlaurachick wrote: »

The only thing I will add is: please don't leave your trash in the nodes.

1 - The node will respawn FASTER if you take everything. Trust me, I've been farming hours, daily, for years.

2 - The next person who comes along 2 minutes later will not see Columbine, then pick up YOUR worms and Alchemical Resin, and then start cursing you to get vampirism the old fashioned way.

Really, the addon that automatically only takes the primary loot needs to DIE. Hey @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - why does the API let the player progrmatically choose what they take from nodes and chests?

Today was the first day I really have been plagued by this "habit". Lots of chests, partially plundered. I'm not too fussed about it as I can either sell or use everything but still...it's inconsiderate. And I had no idea such a mod existed. Yuck.

Acrolas · March 2018

ZOS_Edward wrote: »

It's when those turn into personal attacks on others that the line is crossed.

Did you not realize the OP was full of passive aggressive attacks and threats to name and shame? Also, that it's framed on an argument from authority fallacy so OP can feel correct claiming opinion as fact?

Nobody has to like losing out on a node. But the feeling should fade in a few seconds. Not long enough to write a long thread about it.

You can't say "Competition is great" after bashing and lecturing people who are more competitive than you are. Threads like this should not define the narrative nor should they even have the suggestion of being endorsed by ZOS.

Acheration · March 2018

"All seasoned players know that the regeneration rate for nodes in this game provide enough for everyone if given a bit of patience. There is always another node down the road."

Then stop crying about someone taking a node. Since you state that there's enough.