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Buffs vs De-buffs, Damage Mitigation, and other Balance concerns

LegendaryNinja
LegendaryNinja
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I haven't made a post in a while, wanted to point out how game balance was going. In this discussion I would like to point out certain massive imbalances in terms of CP, Buffs, De-Buffs, Mundus Stones, and Stat Pools. I will not be covering class specific skills(Active and Passives) or itemization. My main objective is the argument that in order to balance the game properly there has to be balance in the skills that all players regardless of class, race, and gear have access to. It will be a long post, please some really good information will be discussed, hopefully zenimax takes some of these facts into account for the next big update or later on during the holidays.

Section 1: Buffs vs De-Buffs:
-In taking a look at the game from an un-bias perspective there is a number of Buffs available to players from different weapon skill lines and World skill lines regardless of class or race. When the developers standardized different skills into a Buff or De-Buff category they were really damage oriented, this in particular shifts the defensive gameplay out of the game since there is always a serious disadvantage to players focusing in defensive play. However, there are really good players that through a combination of player skill, abilities, gear, and CP, can mitigate massive amounts of damage, but the skill level its higher than a player focusing in just doing damage with a moderate level of skill. In this argument i'm not saying that a damage focused player has no skill; simply that that the amount of skill required would be less. Additionally i will not take into account any enchantments or poisons for de-buffs and buffs available as part of a skill or passive to players.

-Most Notable Buffs vs De-buffs Imbalance:

1. Major Protection vs Major Berserk vs Major Maim: There is multiple sources that provides Major protection(Reduce damage by 30%). Normally they are part of Ultimate skills or certain sets. I agree with the current cost since ultimate cannot be used like a buff ability would work. Mayor Berserk(Increase damage by 25%) is already imbalanced; either Buff Major Berserk or reduce Major Protection to 25%. The sources of Major Berserk are few, and not available out of class abilities. This would have to be looked at, this is a great way to incorporate into almost never used abilities. Major Maim(Decrease damage done by 30%) is also not available to all players, also there is no (Increase Damage done by 30% buff). Personally, i think these buffs are complicated since one reduces the damage done by the target, while the other reduces damage done to you. Sounds crazy but the only way to properly balance this would be to combine them into one. I mean as an example: Major Protection(Or whatever they call it) Reduces the damage of the target(s) by 15% and provide damage reduction of 15%(group if Aoe or yourself). Also values of ultimates would need to be adjusted for balance purposes. Then reduce minor maim to 10% but increase the duration(This skill is normally used by tanks) to compensate.

2. Major Savagery/Major Prophecy vs Major Uncertainty: There are multiple sources of Major Savagery/Prophecy, but to counter this buff. Major Uncertainty is needed in the game a de-buff in order to be balanced. As a note CP and traits does not qualify as a proper counter, since this is separate from the CP tree and available as a buff to all players.

3. Major Brutality/Major Sorcery vs Major ????: There are ample sources for Brutality and Sorcery but absolutely no counter de-buffs for that. A De-Buff of "Reduces Target Weapon/Spell Damage by 20%" should be created. Enchantments does not count as a counter for this buff category.

-Those were the 3 most critical aspects that need to be looked at in order to properly balance the game.

Section 2: Ranged combat vs Melee:


-Need clarification if melee abilities are stronger than ranged or not? I think because of the disadvantage that fighting melee exposes the player to, those abilities should be about 15% stronger than their ranged counterparts if not already.

Section 3: Stats and their effects:


- As most of you know the Magicka Stat in combination with Spell power increases the damage of those spells, additionally Magic Shields scale with Max Magick only.
- The Stamina Stat in combination with Weapon Power increases the damage of those skills as well, and that is it. Stamina is also used to roll dodge and block(mostly, with skills in the passives of the Destro Staff you can block with Magic as long as a Frost Staff is equipped at the moment of the block)
- The Health stat is simply a measure of your vitality, when it reaches 0 you die. Besides making Health based Shields stronger, the Health stat adds no additional effect.


Proposed changes:

-Looks like the Magic Stat is in the right place.
-The Stamina Stat needs something additional to counter Magic making shields stronger. I propose increasing the dodge chance by 1% for every 5k stamina, the percentage is low because of how powerful dodge is. A 40k stamina player will have an automatic 8% dodge chance, however that chance will lower the more tired that the player gets.
-The Health stat should add more damage mitigation in addition to other sources. 1% damage mitigation should be added for every 5k health a player has. It would be powerful for health based builds(doing barely any DPS, but being tankier), but a little helpful to every player, but not OP. It would also reduce the need to block so much and it would help newer tanks a little bit. Just like Stamina, the amount of mitigation will go down as the health go down. So it really wins if you don't take damage to health.
-I know a lot of people wont like this, but Stamina players always take damage directly to health and in healing, there are more options for self healing as a magic build. Because of the massive nerf to block, tanks cannot block way too much, creating openings for dps. Damage mitigation caps at 50% of armor, since damage keeps increasing every patch, the amount mitigated is less, this would help bridge that gap.

Section 4: Armor Damage mitigation increase to 60%(currently 50%):


-I have 2 opinions on this subject. If the Buffs and De-buffs are fixed and balanced, then Armor Damage Mitigation would not need a buff. My second opinion is that you can stack weapon power and stats, but armor remains at 33000k because of the Armor Damage mitigation Cap(stacking more only helps counter armor penetration). This should be raised a little bit to about 60% Mitigation, however, in order for a player to get so high armor(almost 40k) wont be easy, a lot of sacrifices will be made)

Section 5: Mundus Stones:

-Really quick, there needs to be more mundus stones to counter the effects of some other stones. Specially to counter Increase Spell and Weapon damage and Crit mundus stones.

Section 6: CP Balance:

-The CP system is actually well rounded and balanced. Now some passives can be reviewed for effectiveness purposes. Passives like the one where you get healed when being critically struck needs a buff(Like healing 5% of your health). The passive of when you block and get a damage shields, the shield should scale of your highest stat. There are others, but these 2 come to mind.

Thats all for now, I really did try to be as neutral as possible. Someone told me once that facts are facts, and thats it.

(Update: Made a few typo adjustments)
Edited by LegendaryNinja on March 18, 2018 5:36PM
  • RouDeR
    RouDeR
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    Nerf sorc yes ?
  • Lynx7386
    Lynx7386
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    I don't think buffs/debuffs were meant (or need) to be identical counters.

    PS4 / NA
    M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
    Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
    Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
    Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
    Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Lynx7386 wrote: »
    I don't think buffs/debuffs were meant (or need) to be identical counters.

    This is true. Because of the way math works in ESO, 30% increase in damage is not the same as 30% increase in damage taken is not the same as 25% damage reduction in damage taken is not the same as 25% reduction in damage done by a target. The math is a little more complicated then it seems.
  • LegendaryNinja
    LegendaryNinja
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    RouDeR wrote: »
    Nerf sorc yes ?

    I didn't go into actual class balance in this post, just Base Buffs and Damage Mitigation concerns, and Stats. If this is looked at, it would make balancing classes easier.
  • LegendaryNinja
    LegendaryNinja
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    Lynx7386 wrote: »
    I don't think buffs/debuffs were meant (or need) to be identical counters.

    Some debuffs could be combined into one. Like a spell power/Weapon power debuff, but currently the buff is 20% of the total spell/weapon power. People will be upset if a debuff of 20 percent of their weapon/spell power is created; unless they make it a static amount, which will then lead to a dps loss in most builds, but will be beneficial in end game PVE content. Without it, the game will remain imbalanced in that aspect. Ultimately there is always a price to pay for balance. As most combat changes, it will be a PVP issue because the game does not differentiate skill effects or skills only in PVP. The question would be if players are ok with the game being imbalanced as long as it doe not affect their DPS.
  • LegendaryNinja
    LegendaryNinja
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    Lynx7386 wrote: »
    I don't think buffs/debuffs were meant (or need) to be identical counters.

    This is true. Because of the way math works in ESO, 30% increase in damage is not the same as 30% increase in damage taken is not the same as 25% damage reduction in damage taken is not the same as 25% reduction in damage done by a target. The math is a little more complicated then it seems.

    Specially because de-buffs on target can be cleansable.
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