This is what Veteran Overland should look like

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

Like many other players, I get bored playing overland because it is just me facerolling everything. There's no resistance at all - just hot knife through butter. I've done it with no armor, I've done it with no CP allocated, I've done it with just heavy attacks, I've done it naked with just skills. It doesn't matter because the content is just that unbalanced post-level 50.

I've advocated for some sort of Veteran option for overland content before, specifically a sort of option toggle or instanced veteran zones. I am aware of the complications of both, and especially with separate instanced zones, but hear me out. Here's some ideas.

Instanced Veteran Zones:

So first off, let's remember that zones are already instanced. If you've ever grouped with a friend and seen them invisible or not on your map, you've experienced this yourself. I honestly think that making new veteran instances can be as simple as instances already are: just another zone instance created, but with stronger monsters with more mechanics - friends can travel to you (message to travel should warn of veteran instance), you can travel to them or just use the map and select Normal or Veteran - fluid, simple, elegant. The best part is, it won't fragment the playerbase anymore than it already is fragmented with instances as they already exist. The way instances work is they will fill one instance before creating another - that will still happen, so anyone playing in a normal instance should not notice any decrease in population.

Instanced Veteran Delves:

In the event that entire zones aren't scaled to Veteran, Delves can still be given a Veteran instance, just like with dungeons: Once you've unlocked the ability to play Veteran, entering the delve door will bring up a dialog box for you to choose either Normal or Veteran. Veteran Delves can have stronger monsters with more mechanics, purple gear drops, more achievements. Something to keep Delves fresh and challenging.

Veteran Quests:

Just like with Delves, if all of overland can't be instanced to Veteran, we can still have Veteran Quests. In quest dialogue (or when picking up a quest from sources other than an NPC), you can have two options when starting the quest, Normal and Veteran. Veteran mode would offer stronger monster spawns, a challenging boss, purple gear rewards, and increased XP rewards. It would affect only monsters and bosses that are part of the quest. This would be especially great for new content as it comes out, as it would allow more experienced players to enjoy the stories of new content in a challenging environment.

Veteran World Bosses

Same as the last two, World Bosses can also be made into a Veteran option by way of a simple option. Dropping a hardmode-style scroll outside of the World Boss area would be easy, and reading it would start a World Boss encounter in Veteran Mode, with a stronger boss and adds, and more boss mechanics. Other players can join in to help you topple the harder boss.

This is how I envision Veteran overland content. It's something that I think the game desperately needs, as an overwhelming majority of the game is just simply not fun anymore after you reach a certain point. For the sake of player retention and player sanity, please ZOS, consider adding some kind of Veteran overland in the near future.

Thanks for reading!

Algraxa · March 2018

Sounds good!

I would not use them as I detest grinding of trash mobs, but for those that do, I support the option to add challenge if they desire.

I am the other end of the spectrum, I come for fast superficial trash mob wipes, I actually had more fun before One Tam, because I could just lay waste with no effort or time wasted.

To each their own, I support anything that will add to the game population, drive sales and new content.

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

Would appreciate more feedback about these ideas. I really do think they are a good way to implement a Veteran overland option, but I'm open to hearing constructive criticism and having a discussion on how we can improve it.

Apache_Kid · March 2018

The whole concept of "veteran overland" seems like a pipe-dream to me. You make it sound so simple but I bet in practice it would be a pretty drastic content overhaul by ZoS. I'm not really interested in fighting juiced up mobs or delve bosses. I'd rather focus on the more difficult dungeon and trial content/achievements I have yet to complete.

That being said I guess if "veteran overland" were to actually come into being I your ideas are are good. I know that you are not the only one that wants this because these threads are becoming more and more common.

Xundiin · March 2018

Wait?!! you want to go back to where you can't slap skills on your bars and still kill things?! O.O

Can I sign up for this? I liked it when I couldn't just ignore the 100+ mobs in front of me, or pull 20+ mobs AOE them down.

Motherball · March 2018

They are good ideas, the exact type of thing the developers/producers may eventually butcher and charge a fortune for.

Aliyavana · March 2018

These are good ideas but people who don't want the more skilled players to get extra content might complain even though 90 percent of content is easy. Plus zos is better off designing other things

aaisoaho · March 2018

I used to love it when wasps in Craglorn were a lethal threat and this idea sounds lovely. I do think that if this idea gets executed, farmers would end up farming in normal instances and other vet players would end up in vet instance, so the new players would only see vet players farming.

I'm not sure if HM scrolls for world bosses is a good idea. There could be some joker who thinks activating every single scroll is a good idea, so you would fight HM world bosses every single time, even if you don't want to.

But over all, it would be fun to have vet instancing of overland.

Master_Fluff · March 2018

Veteran zone demand again? You didn't play ESO back when the Cadwells silver/gold quests were instanced veteran versions of the pve-zones, did you? Otherwise you would know how much the playerbase all loathed the veteran zones. We do not want them back, vet zones became more and more empty of players as the months went by. Players quit ESO because of the veteran rank leveling. Veteran zones is waste of megaserver resources better used elsewhere.

WakeYourGhost · March 2018

Phage wrote: »

just hot knife through MELTED butter.

Hot buttery action... It's made me start to think of alternative choices for getting a challenge - Yet, apparently, running around in a Guild Tabard as my only protection against the weather, using the life-affirming flesh of my well-formed fists as my only weapons still doesn't net me any form of true difficulty in overland content.

I would agree with every point you've mad blindly, save that I have some small ideas about a few of them.

For delves and other content - An increased chance of higher quality loot would be perfect. They could also add a chance for upgraded Ornate and Intricate items.
They don't need to flat outshine Lower-difficulty content, but they should reward those willing to fight mobs that can make them wet themselves and world bosses that can no longer be solo'ed.

Adding some unique Veteran-only quests sounds like an interesting idea, as does making a Veteran version of certain quests.
An example, when you've hit a milestone (Beat Main Quest for Game, Alliance, or Area), you can unlock the Veteran Versions (Account wide, I would hope).
Ever wanted a Good 1v1 with Molag Bal? Veteran Main Quest has your back with a no-longer Unlimited HP easy mode stompathon.
Ever wanted to feel like you didn't just sweep through the Alliance zones like a whirlwind of death, blowing past all content? Veteran Quests! (Maybe make the NPCs more effective too, so it feels like you're hangin' out with a Legend instead of a drunk at the local pub you're tryin to walk home through a bad part of town?)

A way to help keep people invested in doing content for Veteran mode? How about more Unique Piece set items. Named gear.
Maybe a tiny chance of gettin' Gold and Shiny brand new gear?

You can also drive everyone insane by added a few Veteran-Only motifs with almost 0% drop chance that sell for 6000+ crowns in the store. Maybe that makes it worth while for ZOS?

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Veteran zone demand again? You didn't play ESO back when the Cadwells silver/gold quests were instanced veteran versions of the pve-zones, did you? Otherwise you would know how much the playerbase all loathed the veteran zones. We do not want them back, vet zones became more and more empty of players as the months went by. Players quit ESO because of the veteran rank leveling. Veteran zones is waste of megaserver resources better used elsewhere.

I did play back then, and the veteran versions I have in mind wouldn't be anything like that. Wouldn't be like old Craglorn either.

I'm of the mind that Veteran overland shouldn't be any more difficult than a Vet part 1 base-game dungeon (or part 2 normal). So like old Vet, but not like old Vet I guess.

As for it being a waste of resources, it would literally be the same server load. People would either be in Normal or Veteran instances, but the overall number of instances wouldn't really be any different. You'd only have people in Veteran, and since they're not in Normal the instances basically cancel out. Would be negligible impact on server resources.

Also please remember, this is an optional thing. People who don't want to play vet don't have to - they can ignore it altogether. People like me who want to play the other 95% of the game with added challenge can do that. Nobody misses out on anything, and nobody is forced to do anything they don't want to do.

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

These are good ideas but people who don't want the more skilled players to get extra content might complain even though 90 percent of content is easy. Plus zos is better off designing other things

I dunno about that. It doesn't impact non-Vet players really, and ZOS has been known to go back and overhaul the game before (read One Tamriel). I think this would be a good overhaul for next time. Having such a large chunk of the game be basically unplayable for Vets is just poor game design.

Integral1900 · March 2018

Why on earth would ZOS go to the titanic effort of reengineering all those zones, and having worked in game development I can tell you it would be a massive boat load of work for a fairly small part of the whole population, when they could just shove a “nerf me” button in the menu that drops all your charecters calculations by 70% and then link up an enhanced loot table, hell, why not just use a boosted version of the cp loot enhancing effect...... actually, I quite like the sound of that....

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

just hot knife through MELTED butter.

Hot buttery action... It's made me start to think of alternative choices for getting a challenge - Yet, apparently, running around in a Guild Tabard as my only protection against the weather, using the life-affirming flesh of my well-formed fists as my only weapons still doesn't net me any form of true difficulty in overland content.

I would agree with every point you've mad blindly, save that I have some small ideas about a few of them.

For delves and other content - An increased chance of higher quality loot would be perfect. They could also add a chance for upgraded Ornate and Intricate items.
They don't need to flat outshine Lower-difficulty content, but they should reward those willing to fight mobs that can make them wet themselves and world bosses that can no longer be solo'ed.

Adding some unique Veteran-only quests sounds like an interesting idea, as does making a Veteran version of certain quests.
An example, when you've hit a milestone (Beat Main Quest for Game, Alliance, or Area), you can unlock the Veteran Versions (Account wide, I would hope).
Ever wanted a Good 1v1 with Molag Bal? Veteran Main Quest has your back with a no-longer Unlimited HP easy mode stompathon.
Ever wanted to feel like you didn't just sweep through the Alliance zones like a whirlwind of death, blowing past all content? Veteran Quests! (Maybe make the NPCs more effective too, so it feels like you're hangin' out with a Legend instead of a drunk at the local pub you're tryin to walk home through a bad part of town?)

A way to help keep people invested in doing content for Veteran mode? How about more Unique Piece set items. Named gear.
Maybe a tiny chance of gettin' Gold and Shiny brand new gear?

You can also drive everyone insane by added a few Veteran-Only motifs with almost 0% drop chance that sell for 6000+ crowns in the store. Maybe that makes it worth while for ZOS?

I was thinking maybe making another option to make Cad's Silver even harder than Vet overland quests, and another option for Cad's Gold for an even harder questing experience. Would be pretty awesome to have hardcore options for solo overland PvE.

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

Integral1900 wrote: »

Why on earth would ZOS go to the titanic effort of reengineering all those zones, and having worked in game development I can tell you it would be a massive boat load of work for a fairly small part of the whole population, when then could just shove a “nerf me” button in the menu that drops all your charecters calculations by 70% and then link up an enhanced loot table, hell, why not just use a boosted version of the cp loot enhancing effect...... actually, I quite like the sound of that....

Wouldn't really be a titanic effort to just copy/paste the zone and tweak the numbers on all the mobs and bosses in that zone to be harder. Tweak drops to purple, and voila. Basic Vet overland. Add more on to make it more interesting maybe, but the basic work is pretty easy really. Would just take a small team working zone by zone, but could probably get it done in 3-6 months depending on how far they take it.

Integral1900 · March 2018

Sorry but you are just wrong, your talking two years and a fair slice of the workforce, a nerf option is the only thing your possibly maybe going to get, anything more is just not going to happen because the just isn’t enough end game players to warrant it, if eso in the back end is like most mmo games then one tamriel alone would have been the equivalent work comparable to at least two morrowind chapters any your talking about something aimed at a part of the playerbase that’s ten percent at most.

A dream that will never happen is just obsession, this game makes cash mostly from casuals like all mmo games, they are the priority, not us whining vets. Maybe we could sell ZOS on a nerf me option but you will never sell them on yours. I’m sorry but that’s just the way it is

MattT1988 · March 2018

Speaking from a realistic point of view I don’t think you’ll get what you want when it comes to the general overland stuff. Vet options for delves and a scroll at world bosses I think are reasonable though.

binho · March 2018

I actually like your ideas. vet delves would be great

Aesthier · March 2018

There is one way to get them to take a serious look at making harder content.

Assist the greater majority of the player base to the level you are at, then when 90% of the players (not toons) are one shotting stuff naked like you then yeah they will definitely come straight out with the tough stuff.

I agree with @Integral1900 in the fact that creating or adjusting content for only 10% of the player base only serves to strengthen the gap and alienates the majority of their players.

It is what it is good or bad

Faulgor · March 2018

Phage wrote: »

Instanced Veteran Zones:

No. Didn't even read further. If it undoes everything One Tamriel accomplished, it's a terrible system.

Ilithyania · March 2018

Overland Super Bosses would be cool yeah

Captain8504 · March 2018

Make it where when you die your character gets deleted. Makes for realism lol but if you can do the entire story, you would get a nice reward.

Captain8504 · March 2018

Ilithyania wrote: »

Overland Super Bosses would be cool yeah

Make it like the bosses in gw2! Where it would take an entire server to kill.

Avran_Sylt · March 2018

Interesting, but the execution is anything but fluid.

Forego any kind of dialogue and just use the setting in the group finder so you don’t have to check a dialogue box every time you want to enter a zone/delve or to play a quest.

World bosses should not have any sort of hard-mode scroll, or you may have new players interacting with it and now they have no real chance at killing the boss. Just keep the hard-mode bosses in the same vet zone.

If zones are never instanced to higher difficulties, don’t bother with what is inside the zones themselves. If anything, zones would be the easiest things to scale up. Adding mechanics would be harder.

Robo_Hobo · March 2018

I'd love all of what you're asking for, and I applaud the effort put into making these ideas and posting them. Personally, the most I'm hoping for at this point is instanced versions of new DLC quest bosses with a hard mode option.

The quest bosses in the CWC storyline looked like they had some interesting mechanics, it's a shame they died in seconds, and I was already not using champion points.

Integral1900 · March 2018

No one fights world bosses as it is, pc eu I just ignore the dam things, there not worth the efforts and 99 times out of 100 I’m the only one there, what’s the point of making them harder if no bothers killing them?

duendology · March 2018

Let's say you're questing/playing with a friend who's level 20 or less and you, of course, have s*** load of cps.. how do you see it working then? You get a hardmode? Your friend, a normal one? o_0

As someone who's not a diehard mmo player, not super skilled yet also, (but certainly abih ESO fan) I don't like the idea at all. You already have have vet and hardmode dungeons, battlegrounds, pvp, trials on hardmode, hardmode arenas. All these places are still beyond my reach... and I don't whine about making them casual player friendly.

ZOS_KatP · March 2018

Hey all,

Friendly reminder to keep the discussion civil and on-topic please

Thanks!

Muttsmutt · March 2018

too much work, too little incentive

ADarklore · March 2018

It's funny because you are basically asking them to 'undo' One Tamriel and return to Vet Levels. One of the reason vet levels failed is because it separated the population... and as we all know from Cadwell's Silver and Gold... there were many locations that were absolutely barren... same with Craglorn. You cannot create such a system without separation the populations and that is something ZOS is now completely against.

Players have to face reality, there comes a time when you OUTGROW a game... and for many here, that seems to be the case; your skills have reached the level where you have outgrown the game.

Danikat · March 2018

I like the idea. At the moment I'm really not looking forward to (finally) getting my first character to level 50 and unlocking CP because everything I've heard about it seems like it makes the game stupidly easy. Right now, playing low level characters with random pieces of dropped gear I think the game is about right for me - I can solo most things but I have to put some effort into it - use the right skills at the right time, kite the enemy etc. and things I can't solo can be done with 1 or 2 other people, if I'm lucky other low level players so they don't just slaughter everything in seconds.

But I'm extremely sceptical of how popular this would actually be. I can't remember the last time I saw players ask for a game to be made harder, the developers did it and the majority of people were actually happy with it. Most of the time it turns out the majority of people actually just wanted the increased rewards (then, if it's a multi-player game complain that everyone else is also getting better drops so they're not worth as much any more and no longer an easy way to make money). They'll wait for someone to figure out the best possible builds so they can farm the 'hard' content as easily as possible, and once they've got the rewards they wanted go back to whatever they were doing before. Or, if that's not possible for some reason, people start complaining that it's too hard and they actually want easier content so it gets nerfed.

Take Guild Wars 2 for example - before they released their first expansion (Heart of Thorns) players kept on and on asking for an expansion with new, harder "end game" zones with enemies that actually have difficult mechanics instead of just high HP. The developers added exactly that - new maps which aren't intended to be played solo, where each enemy or group has their own mechanics and strengths and weaknesses - some are weak to conditions, some to direct damage, some need to be immobilised or stunned so they don't overwhelm you, some you need to take out their healer first...and so on.

Players hated it. Complained that they couldn't play it solo, that it was too complicated, took too long to do anything, etc. etc. until the entire expansion was nerfed. Even then people still complain because it's not as easy as playing a down-scaled max level character in low level maps, so they made their new expansion basically just like the base game. (And now people complain it's boring.)

I think ZOS would have to do a lot of talking to players and experimenting with different ideas over an extended period of time to try and find out exactly what they want in order to make this work. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if the end result is mobs with a bit more HP who are guaranteed to always drop purple or better items.