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The Problem with Shieldbreaker
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
Well, be so kind and post your suggested bar setup, please.
Oh, and please don't post something like "wine, beer'n'pretzels".
;PEdited by Lord-Otto on March 16, 2018 3:57AM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Shieldstacking is a stupid mechanic that shouldn't exist.
Shieldbreaker is a stupid set that shouldn't exist.
So they cancel each other out, IF you ask my opinion both should be gone.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 16, 2018 4:23AM4 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Shieldstacking is a stupid mechanic that shouldn't exist.
Shieldbreaker is a stupid set that shouldn't exist.
So they cancel each other out, IF you ask my opinion both should be gone.
It should exist.
Sorcs should have shields.
NBs should have leeching healing.
Temps should have burst heals.
DKs should have special block.
Wardens should be deleted.
This would give every class a unique defense. There are traces of this in the game already. Only, they're underveloped and grossly imbalanced.
And on topic, honestly, Harness magicka return pushes shieldstacking into OPness, THAT needs re-working.
4 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
Ok mister Master Sorc, i give you my Bar Setup and you tell me what to replace with Boundless, Hots and Stuff.
Frontbar: Crystal Fragmets, Crushing Shock, Hardened Ward, Rune Cage, Execute, Meteor
Backbar: Healing Ward, Dark Deal, Streak, Curse, Dampen Magicka, Resto Ult
So now give me perfect Bar Setup to counter SB without *** up everything so i don´t have burst or CC.
Thanks
2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s true, I seldom die to SB either. But that’s just because the good players don’t need it and the bad ones...well are bad ones. Doesn’t make the set less stupid though.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Hey guys,
i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:
This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.
And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.
Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken
Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.
You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.
this ^
That´s like saying mark is a balanced counter for cloak.
In a way - except that cloak is just one aspect of a magblades defence - along with plenty of hots, and either dmg shields or heavy armour. Or on stamblade, it's going with strong stam heals and dodge/block.
So yes, mark is a counter for 'one aspect' of the layered defences available to a particular class and is only a counter to a *build* that overly relies on one of those three.
And if you look at it like that - most builds using 3 layers of defence... like cloak/shield/heal or block/dodge/heals etc... All viable magsorc builds have shield/shield/weak heals, with SB completely nullifying 2 out of the 3 - and the 3 being too weak to deal with it alone. This is not just a build it nullifies, but an entire class.
No, SB is much worse than mark.
Don´t agree at all.
A marked NB (stamina that is to be fair) has basically the options to try to run away or die.
As a sorc you can run away with high chance of success or try to kill your opponent which is much more likely to happen than a nb winning against a nb with mark.
Ofc you can build stamblades in a way that they don´t require cloak to work. You can also build sorcs in a way that they don´t require shields to work. It´s just not very effective in cyro.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You can counter shieldbreaker, but you need to run a build like Pelican does (YouTube him kids):
One shield (let it drop)
Power Surge
Boundless Storm (in your face, 1.5K-2K heals per second for the whole fight)
Mutagen (or Rapid Regen) back-bar
Restoration Ultimate
(Don’t forget blood magic passives, they help)
Resto ultimate until your shields are down. Stay offensive, and finish off the breaker-tard using just HOTs. You should survive long enough to the next Resto ultimate or enemy death.
The issue with most Sorc builds is that:
1. They don’t use boundless, which is great defense.
2. They don’t use the Resto ultimate.
3. They crutch on healing ward to top off health, when it will get them absolutely killed versus an oblivion/breaker setup.
I don’t think the set needs changing. Streak off and invis pot, then change bars, come back, and destroy the shield breaker. Chances are, they’re baddie potatoes playing with a toy set and can’t actually fight.
But that's the problem right there. Sorc has little enough build diversity already without being forced into one particular build to deal with one particular set.
Yes, I have a build that can happily deal with SB.I just don't like playing the same build all the time. It uses boundless and surge (btw - its only 1k heals per sec - and you can only really get in anyones face with shields down if they are alone - most DB users are not) - making boundless' biggest strength as an escape tool (and unfortunately suge's benefit is lost while escaping).
It uses combat prayer - a decent, spammable, instant heal with minor resists, resto ult and bloodspawn for good resto uptime and more passive resists. Also uses a good mix of impen and well-fitted.
Can deal with it great vs one player. Can escape from multiple players - I just find it dull.
(btw, I tried it with rapid regen first and simply found combat prayer more effective - largely because combat prayer will always affect the caster.)
Edited by Biro123 on March 16, 2018 10:43AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Hey guys,
i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:
This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.
And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.
Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken
Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.
You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.
this ^
That´s like saying mark is a balanced counter for cloak.
In a way - except that cloak is just one aspect of a magblades defence - along with plenty of hots, and either dmg shields or heavy armour. Or on stamblade, it's going with strong stam heals and dodge/block.
So yes, mark is a counter for 'one aspect' of the layered defences available to a particular class and is only a counter to a *build* that overly relies on one of those three.
And if you look at it like that - most builds using 3 layers of defence... like cloak/shield/heal or block/dodge/heals etc... All viable magsorc builds have shield/shield/weak heals, with SB completely nullifying 2 out of the 3 - and the 3 being too weak to deal with it alone. This is not just a build it nullifies, but an entire class.
No, SB is much worse than mark.
Don´t agree at all.
A marked NB (stamina that is to be fair) has basically the options to try to run away or die.
As a sorc you can run away with high chance of success or try to kill your opponent which is much more likely to happen than a nb winning against a nb with mark.
Ofc you can build stamblades in a way that they don´t require cloak to work. You can also build sorcs in a way that they don´t require shields to work. It´s just not very effective in cyro.
Kind of depends how you build (NB's have soo many options). My melee magblade relies fully on mobility/cloak with healing ward as a backup. When marked, its nasty - but can usually escape, getting by with healing ward (unless you're also getting SB spammed - but that's 2 different counters to 2 different defences - which I'm ok with).
I also have a heavy armour ranged build that stacks hots - cloak is a handy supplement - but not the main defence (can't sustain it anyway). This one can still stand and fight when marked.
The point is SB ignores all of a sorcs defence mechanisms (and only needs ranged light attacks)- mark only counters one of a number of the NB's defences - and still needs actual abilities to attack with.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.3 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also with boundless. Shieldbreaker ignores Physical or Spell Resist cause its Oblivion Dmg.2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
It does hard counter the entire class because the entire class relies on shields for defence to be competitive. Period. Thats a fact and when you disagree with that u just show that u dont have a damn clue about the class. Even the only "reliable" self heal of the class relies on shields to stay alive. The entire class is promoting a shield based playstyle. The only counter people gave is run away. Great counter there. Its a stupid skilless proc set for every potato to crutch on and zerg sorcs down. Stop defending it.4 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
And this is why you shouldnt talk about sorcs, because you dont know what ur talking about. We are talking about competitive builds here. There is a reason why sorcs have the same playstyle for years. There is a reason why top sorcs of the game are still playing a shield based playstyle.
You are using the same pathetic excuse that every single clueless person used in the past when it comes to sorcs and yet, not one of you ever posted even a semi viable build that doesnt rely on shields. You know what they say. Put ur money where ur mouth is and show to everyone why the best sorcs in the game are not that good after all.3 -
Datolite✭✭✭✭✭Shield stacking is kinda cheesy to begin with. Sorcs need better options than just spamming shields IMO, it's a very one-dimensional style of play. If they made dark deal instant and nerfed shields it would make it much more fun to play. Then you'd have shields, stamina for blocking/dodging, and a decent heal to choose from depending on the scenario. Just my 2 cents.2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Hey guys,
i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:
This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.
And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.
Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken
Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.
You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.
this ^
That´s like saying mark is a balanced counter for cloak.
In a way - except that cloak is just one aspect of a magblades defence - along with plenty of hots, and either dmg shields or heavy armour. Or on stamblade, it's going with strong stam heals and dodge/block.
So yes, mark is a counter for 'one aspect' of the layered defences available to a particular class and is only a counter to a *build* that overly relies on one of those three.
And if you look at it like that - most builds using 3 layers of defence... like cloak/shield/heal or block/dodge/heals etc... All viable magsorc builds have shield/shield/weak heals, with SB completely nullifying 2 out of the 3 - and the 3 being too weak to deal with it alone. This is not just a build it nullifies, but an entire class.
No, SB is much worse than mark.
Don´t agree at all.
A marked NB (stamina that is to be fair) has basically the options to try to run away or die.
As a sorc you can run away with high chance of success or try to kill your opponent which is much more likely to happen than a nb winning against a nb with mark.
Ofc you can build stamblades in a way that they don´t require cloak to work. You can also build sorcs in a way that they don´t require shields to work. It´s just not very effective in cyro.
I know that you know that only a nightblade can mark another nightblade, and nerfing Mark will only nerf nightblades?Also with boundless. Shieldbreaker ignores Physical or Spell Resist cause its Oblivion Dmg.
It does, but only when shields are up. Boundless is there to survive shields down for a just few seconds to kill the SB user. Of course it also helps to use wizards riposte on top of that, I’m usually either carrying it or actively using it.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Shieldstacking is a stupid mechanic that shouldn't exist.
Shieldbreaker is a stupid set that shouldn't exist.
So they cancel each other out, IF you ask my opinion both should be gone.
It should exist.
Sorcs should have shields.
NBs should have leeching healing.
Temps should have burst heals.
DKs should have special block.
Wardens should be deleted.
This would give every class a unique defense. There are traces of this in the game already. Only, they're underveloped and grossly imbalanced.
And on topic, honestly, Harness magicka return pushes shieldstacking into OPness, THAT needs re-working.
Here’s Pelican, the guy is insane. He only runs one shield. Ever. Half of the time he doesn’t slot healing ward.
I don’t find the playstyle involved fun or engaging, but one shield CAN be made to work. A harness/hardened playstyle makes the class FAR easier to play, and slightly more forgiving for those of us who aren’t early teenagers strung out on Adderall.
https://youtu.be/n6t6vtS63AM
What will people whine about Sorcs when shield stacking is gone? Force pulse OP? I can imagine the people Pelican 1vX’s still crying about shield stacking.Edited by Minalan on March 16, 2018 2:22PM1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭you can do nothing to a shield stacker, they are basicly impossible to kill.
shield breaker is the only thing that works on them that makes it fair.
there are Still shield stackers that have found ways to beat shield breaker set, but for the majority of them it makes the fight fair.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »you can do nothing to a shield stacker, they are basicly impossible to kill.
shield breaker is the only thing that works on them that makes it fair.
there are Still shield stackers that have found ways to beat shield breaker set, but for the majority of them it makes the fight fair.
You’re playing a Nightblade. If you can’t kill a Sorc as a Nightblade in 2018 I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with shields being overpowered.
I mean, you could for example count to 5 after shields were applied, and then fear, Incap, execute. Chances are most Sorcs won’t be countering that due to the nature of the fear CC, especially in laggy surroundings. Use your excellent class tools instead of demanding nerfs or defending broken sets.Edited by Feanor on March 16, 2018 3:20PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭as long as we have shield breaker set available it makes fighting shield stackers a fair fight.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »as long as we have shield breaker set available it makes fighting shield stackers a fair fight.
For you maybe..Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.5 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »as long as we have shield breaker set available it makes fighting shield stackers a fair fight.
Because all dueling tournaments are won by shieldstacking sorcs...0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »as long as we have shield breaker set available it makes fighting shield stackers a fair fight.
Because all dueling tournaments are won by shieldstacking sorcs...
Well if they were allowed to use pets...
And i got to say a sorc utilising wizards riposte won't die in a 1v1 most of the time but he won't be able to kill anything.
On topic : Remove shieldbreaker from the game1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »as long as we have shield breaker set available it makes fighting shield stackers a fair fight.
Because all dueling tournaments are won by shieldstacking sorcs...
Well if they were allowed to use pets...
And i got to say a sorc utilising wizards riposte won't die in a 1v1 most of the time but he won't be able to kill anything.
On topic : Remove shieldbreaker from the game0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »as long as we have shield breaker set available it makes fighting shield stackers a fair fight.
Because all dueling tournaments are won by shieldstacking sorcs...
Well if they were allowed to use pets...
And i got to say a sorc utilising wizards riposte won't die in a 1v1 most of the time but he won't be able to kill anything.
On topic : Remove shieldbreaker from the game
Pets perform poorly in Cyrodiil, wouldn't help there. In duels, that's a different story. But their strength lies not in shields, but, ironically, the LoS provided - which is actually something other classes exploit better in Cyrodiil.
Wizard's is only an okayish set in duels, IMO. Dueling NBs, you know Maim isn't enough to become immortal. Wizard's appeal lies in the ease of applying it to multiple people, a scaling defense to supplement non-scaling shields in open Cyro.
And on top of that, you lose sustain using Wizard's over Lich. The moment someone uses poison, you're finished.
Great group fight set, can't recommend for duels.
Back to topic:
Remove Shieldbreaker.
Then nerf sorcs a bit more to compensate. 1 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
And this is why you shouldnt talk about sorcs, because you dont know what ur talking about. We are talking about competitive builds here. There is a reason why sorcs have the same playstyle for years. There is a reason why top sorcs of the game are still playing a shield based playstyle.
You are using the same pathetic excuse that every single clueless person used in the past when it comes to sorcs and yet, not one of you ever posted even a semi viable build that doesnt rely on shields. You know what they say. Put ur money where ur mouth is and show to everyone why the best sorcs in the game are not that good after all.
Maybe you should be the one not talking about sorcs if your still dieing to SB. You obviously do not know the class as well as you think you do especially if you think your one of the self proclaimed best sorcs in the game.
There's a difference between a duel or only fighting 2-3 people versus fighting a group which seems to be the main complaint about SB. Small scale then yes the traditional shield stacking style works best, but when you greatly outnumbered that style does not work and you will be dead in no time unless you wanna run away from every fight.
I never said not to use a shield, but rather relying strictly on them as your only form of defense is not effective. For large scale battles I only use hardened ward and then mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration for heals. Degeneration is nice when your outnumbered since you can stack the heal on multiple players and also have a chance to heal on your light attack weaves. You also have mutagen ticking and a burst heal if you get below 20%. Combat prayer is also helpful for a burst heal since it can't be interrupted, boosts your resistance, and gives you a damage bonus.
I also use ball of lightning rather then streak since it absorbs projectiles which also helps your survivability. With resto you also have lights champion and if that's not enough heals to fight a SB user then you gotta work on your skills. Maybe look at that big red health bar on your screen once in awhile and if you notice your health going down, but your shield is still up then maybe it would be a good idea to stop applying your shield, throw down some hot's, and go on the offensive. Last I checked SB users are not immune to damage or cc's.
I also use mighty chudan because having that big resistance bonus all the time without having to slot a skill or waste magic is huge. Not to mention whether you're using 1,2, or even 3 shields they will go down and you will be lying on your back waiting to die if you don't have any resistance to help mitigate damage.
So to clear things up I never said I was a great sorc, just that I have enough sense to be able to survive an underwhelming cheese set without a dramatic whining of how it destroys a class when it clearly doesn't. I've also made it very clear that I don't like proc sets and would love to see them removed from pvp, but that's not going to happen. So you have a choice to keep doing what your doing which clearly is not working or adapt your play style.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well, thank you for sharing your build, Sanctum. So, correct me if I'm wrong, you're using Prayer and Mutagen instead of Harness and Healing. And you're using your flex slot for Degen, right?
This works against Shieldbreaker. However, the moment I come around the corner, with Harness and Healing, I will crush you so hard it's not even gonna be funny. And this is true for other sorcs and other classes without Shieldbreaker.
You are indeed gimping your whole build just to survive against one set. And this is exactly what we are complaining about.4 -
The-Baconator✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Hey guys,
i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:
This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.
And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.
Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken
Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.
You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.
this ^
That´s like saying mark is a balanced counter for cloak.
In a way - except that cloak is just one aspect of a magblades defence - along with plenty of hots, and either dmg shields or heavy armour. Or on stamblade, it's going with strong stam heals and dodge/block.
So yes, mark is a counter for 'one aspect' of the layered defences available to a particular class and is only a counter to a *build* that overly relies on one of those three.
And if you look at it like that - most builds using 3 layers of defence... like cloak/shield/heal or block/dodge/heals etc... All viable magsorc builds have shield/shield/weak heals, with SB completely nullifying 2 out of the 3 - and the 3 being too weak to deal with it alone. This is not just a build it nullifies, but an entire class.
No, SB is much worse than mark.
Don´t agree at all.
A marked NB (stamina that is to be fair) has basically the options to try to run away or die.
As a sorc you can run away with high chance of success or try to kill your opponent which is much more likely to happen than a nb winning against a nb with mark.
Ofc you can build stamblades in a way that they don´t require cloak to work. You can also build sorcs in a way that they don´t require shields to work. It´s just not very effective in cyro.
I know that you know that only a nightblade can mark another nightblade, and nerfing Mark will only nerf nightblades?Also with boundless. Shieldbreaker ignores Physical or Spell Resist cause its Oblivion Dmg.
It does, but only when shields are up. Boundless is there to survive shields down for a just few seconds to kill the SB user. Of course it also helps to use wizards riposte on top of that, I’m usually either carrying it or actively using it.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Shieldstacking is a stupid mechanic that shouldn't exist.
Shieldbreaker is a stupid set that shouldn't exist.
So they cancel each other out, IF you ask my opinion both should be gone.
It should exist.
Sorcs should have shields.
NBs should have leeching healing.
Temps should have burst heals.
DKs should have special block.
Wardens should be deleted.
This would give every class a unique defense. There are traces of this in the game already. Only, they're underveloped and grossly imbalanced.
And on topic, honestly, Harness magicka return pushes shieldstacking into OPness, THAT needs re-working.
Here’s Pelican, the guy is insane. He only runs one shield. Ever. Half of the time he doesn’t slot healing ward.
I don’t find the playstyle involved fun or engaging, but one shield CAN be made to work. A harness/hardened playstyle makes the class FAR easier to play, and slightly more forgiving for those of us who aren’t early teenagers strung out on Adderall.https://youtu.be/n6t6vtS63AM
What will people whine about Sorcs when shield stacking is gone? Force pulse OP? I can imagine the people Pelican 1vX’s still crying about shield stacking.
There isn't a fight in the vid where Pelican doesn't have two shields. He's either running hardened\harness with the twilight pet or hardened\healing without. Solid play but the build would still get butchered by a semi competent player in shield breaker in an Xv1. Not even rapid regen + constant surge ticks will save you against a duroks + sb user or an incap that leaves you 50% heal debuffed at 30-40% hp.First PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
Potato Lord of Atrocity0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The-Baconator wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Hey guys,
i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:
This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.
And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.
Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken
Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.
You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.
this ^
That´s like saying mark is a balanced counter for cloak.
In a way - except that cloak is just one aspect of a magblades defence - along with plenty of hots, and either dmg shields or heavy armour. Or on stamblade, it's going with strong stam heals and dodge/block.
So yes, mark is a counter for 'one aspect' of the layered defences available to a particular class and is only a counter to a *build* that overly relies on one of those three.
And if you look at it like that - most builds using 3 layers of defence... like cloak/shield/heal or block/dodge/heals etc... All viable magsorc builds have shield/shield/weak heals, with SB completely nullifying 2 out of the 3 - and the 3 being too weak to deal with it alone. This is not just a build it nullifies, but an entire class.
No, SB is much worse than mark.
Don´t agree at all.
A marked NB (stamina that is to be fair) has basically the options to try to run away or die.
As a sorc you can run away with high chance of success or try to kill your opponent which is much more likely to happen than a nb winning against a nb with mark.
Ofc you can build stamblades in a way that they don´t require cloak to work. You can also build sorcs in a way that they don´t require shields to work. It´s just not very effective in cyro.
I know that you know that only a nightblade can mark another nightblade, and nerfing Mark will only nerf nightblades?Also with boundless. Shieldbreaker ignores Physical or Spell Resist cause its Oblivion Dmg.
It does, but only when shields are up. Boundless is there to survive shields down for a just few seconds to kill the SB user. Of course it also helps to use wizards riposte on top of that, I’m usually either carrying it or actively using it.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Shieldstacking is a stupid mechanic that shouldn't exist.
Shieldbreaker is a stupid set that shouldn't exist.
So they cancel each other out, IF you ask my opinion both should be gone.
It should exist.
Sorcs should have shields.
NBs should have leeching healing.
Temps should have burst heals.
DKs should have special block.
Wardens should be deleted.
This would give every class a unique defense. There are traces of this in the game already. Only, they're underveloped and grossly imbalanced.
And on topic, honestly, Harness magicka return pushes shieldstacking into OPness, THAT needs re-working.
Here’s Pelican, the guy is insane. He only runs one shield. Ever. Half of the time he doesn’t slot healing ward.
I don’t find the playstyle involved fun or engaging, but one shield CAN be made to work. A harness/hardened playstyle makes the class FAR easier to play, and slightly more forgiving for those of us who aren’t early teenagers strung out on Adderall.https://youtu.be/n6t6vtS63AM
What will people whine about Sorcs when shield stacking is gone? Force pulse OP? I can imagine the people Pelican 1vX’s still crying about shield stacking.
There isn't a fight in the vid where Pelican doesn't have two shields. He's either running hardened\harness with the twilight pet or hardened\healing without. Solid play but the build would still get butchered by a semi competent player in shield breaker in an Xv1. Not even rapid regen + constant surge ticks will save you against a duroks + sb user or an incap that leaves you 50% heal debuffed at 30-40% hp.
He usually uses just hardened ward and healing ward as shields, no harness if you check it out.
I have no doubt Duroks on top of SB would be death. You can’t kill every build, and without Duroks I’d still bet on a win. It’s just, Id rather be able to double stack shields and just put up with the occasional jag off with this set. And Duroks/SB isn’t going to kill anyone else. That’s nightblade gankbait right there.
Besides, I have friends to help with those. Hell, I was running outnumbered PVP with @Minno last night. SB isn’t going to hurt a Templar Its really fun running with someone else, and every gankblade ends up with a spear in their back when they jump me.@Minalan
Pelican admitted in a video (or the comments, I believe), that shieldcstacking is better than single shield, and he'd be at a severe disadvantage if a competent sorc with two shields came along. His build is optimized for mobility and cooking one potato after another.
That is correct, but he’s a good enough chef with just the one. Malamar does the one shield thing too, but he uses wizards. With wizards and boundless, you’re looking at the lower end of heavy armor mitigation when your shields do go down (minus the sword and board, and any defensive set bonuses like brass).
I tried and didn’t like it, I just wanted to see what life would be like without shield stacking at all. My point is that it will still be viable when nobody else can do it. Just not any fun because of the damage loss and mitigation nightmare.Edited by Minalan on March 16, 2018 7:38PM0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well, thank you for sharing your build, Sanctum. So, correct me if I'm wrong, you're using Prayer and Mutagen instead of Harness and Healing. And you're using your flex slot for Degen, right?
This works against Shieldbreaker. However, the moment I come around the corner, with Harness and Healing, I will crush you so hard it's not even gonna be funny. And this is true for other sorcs and other classes without Shieldbreaker.
You are indeed gimping your whole build just to survive against one set. And this is exactly what we are complaining about.
Every body has a different play style and I don't play that way because of SB, but rather it gives me the best overall defense to survive in all scenarios when fighting more than 3 people at a time. If you're fighting good players or a larger group then all your gonna do is shield stack and not be able to go on the offensive or worse if you're fighting an SB user.
For my play style I prefer having a shield, hot's, and resistance. If I'm getting hit by SB or my shield goes down I still have options, but if your only relying on shields for defense and they go down then your done.
I understand your argument and it makes sense, but regardless it's still in the game and they keep adding even more cheese so it's either adapt and overcome or deal with SB on your recap.
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
And this is why you shouldnt talk about sorcs, because you dont know what ur talking about. We are talking about competitive builds here. There is a reason why sorcs have the same playstyle for years. There is a reason why top sorcs of the game are still playing a shield based playstyle.
You are using the same pathetic excuse that every single clueless person used in the past when it comes to sorcs and yet, not one of you ever posted even a semi viable build that doesnt rely on shields. You know what they say. Put ur money where ur mouth is and show to everyone why the best sorcs in the game are not that good after all.
Maybe you should be the one not talking about sorcs if your still dieing to SB. You obviously do not know the class as well as you think you do especially if you think your one of the self proclaimed best sorcs in the game.
There's a difference between a duel or only fighting 2-3 people versus fighting a group which seems to be the main complaint about SB. Small scale then yes the traditional shield stacking style works best, but when you greatly outnumbered that style does not work and you will be dead in no time unless you wanna run away from every fight.
I never said not to use a shield, but rather relying strictly on them as your only form of defense is not effective. For large scale battles I only use hardened ward and then mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration for heals. Degeneration is nice when your outnumbered since you can stack the heal on multiple players and also have a chance to heal on your light attack weaves. You also have mutagen ticking and a burst heal if you get below 20%. Combat prayer is also helpful for a burst heal since it can't be interrupted, boosts your resistance, and gives you a damage bonus.
I also use ball of lightning rather then streak since it absorbs projectiles which also helps your survivability. With resto you also have lights champion and if that's not enough heals to fight a SB user then you gotta work on your skills. Maybe look at that big red health bar on your screen once in awhile and if you notice your health going down, but your shield is still up then maybe it would be a good idea to stop applying your shield, throw down some hot's, and go on the offensive. Last I checked SB users are not immune to damage or cc's.
I also use mighty chudan because having that big resistance bonus all the time without having to slot a skill or waste magic is huge. Not to mention whether you're using 1,2, or even 3 shields they will go down and you will be lying on your back waiting to die if you don't have any resistance to help mitigate damage.
So to clear things up I never said I was a great sorc, just that I have enough sense to be able to survive an underwhelming cheese set without a dramatic whining of how it destroys a class when it clearly doesn't. I've also made it very clear that I don't like proc sets and would love to see them removed from pvp, but that's not going to happen. So you have a choice to keep doing what your doing which clearly is not working or adapt your play style.
Never said im dying to SB. Another pathetic excuse every clueless potato usually use. "If you are dying to, L2P bluh bluh bluh". Nice try, but i guess try harder? I also never said that im one of the best sorcs in the game. Seems like you have basic reading comprehension issues.
The entire class relies on shields period. Relies, means that if you are going for a competitive build, you need to use the stupid shields. If you actually believe that you can fight solo on a competitive level without the use of shields and try to rely on mutagen and combat prayer then dont wonder why you are called clueless. You can have them for some additional support if you have the space but you cannot rely on them. You simply cannot survive like that against a decent player or even in a 1vX scenario.
Mighty chudan to get high resistances etc. Yeah i could put on heavy armor too if i wanted. But choices like that fall into the category of gimping ur build and not having a competitive build. And high resistances are completely irrelevant with SB to begin with. Its oblivion dmg. You can stack 50k resistances for all i care. It will still do the same dmg.
Lights champion? You do realise that this is an ult right? Ok you use it, u get healed and then what? Lights champion and ball of lightning are good against SB for one purpose. To gtfo. Which brings me back to the initial argument. The counter to SB is run away. Great counter.0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
And this is why you shouldnt talk about sorcs, because you dont know what ur talking about. We are talking about competitive builds here. There is a reason why sorcs have the same playstyle for years. There is a reason why top sorcs of the game are still playing a shield based playstyle.
You are using the same pathetic excuse that every single clueless person used in the past when it comes to sorcs and yet, not one of you ever posted even a semi viable build that doesnt rely on shields. You know what they say. Put ur money where ur mouth is and show to everyone why the best sorcs in the game are not that good after all.
Maybe you should be the one not talking about sorcs if your still dieing to SB. You obviously do not know the class as well as you think you do especially if you think your one of the self proclaimed best sorcs in the game.
There's a difference between a duel or only fighting 2-3 people versus fighting a group which seems to be the main complaint about SB. Small scale then yes the traditional shield stacking style works best, but when you greatly outnumbered that style does not work and you will be dead in no time unless you wanna run away from every fight.
I never said not to use a shield, but rather relying strictly on them as your only form of defense is not effective. For large scale battles I only use hardened ward and then mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration for heals. Degeneration is nice when your outnumbered since you can stack the heal on multiple players and also have a chance to heal on your light attack weaves. You also have mutagen ticking and a burst heal if you get below 20%. Combat prayer is also helpful for a burst heal since it can't be interrupted, boosts your resistance, and gives you a damage bonus.
I also use ball of lightning rather then streak since it absorbs projectiles which also helps your survivability. With resto you also have lights champion and if that's not enough heals to fight a SB user then you gotta work on your skills. Maybe look at that big red health bar on your screen once in awhile and if you notice your health going down, but your shield is still up then maybe it would be a good idea to stop applying your shield, throw down some hot's, and go on the offensive. Last I checked SB users are not immune to damage or cc's.
I also use mighty chudan because having that big resistance bonus all the time without having to slot a skill or waste magic is huge. Not to mention whether you're using 1,2, or even 3 shields they will go down and you will be lying on your back waiting to die if you don't have any resistance to help mitigate damage.
So to clear things up I never said I was a great sorc, just that I have enough sense to be able to survive an underwhelming cheese set without a dramatic whining of how it destroys a class when it clearly doesn't. I've also made it very clear that I don't like proc sets and would love to see them removed from pvp, but that's not going to happen. So you have a choice to keep doing what your doing which clearly is not working or adapt your play style.
Never said im dying to SB. Another pathetic excuse every clueless potato usually use. "If you are dying to, L2P bluh bluh bluh". Nice try, but i guess try harder? I also never said that im one of the best sorcs in the game. Seems like you have basic reading comprehension issues.
The entire class relies on shields period. Relies, means that if you are going for a competitive build, you need to use the stupid shields. If you actually believe that you can fight solo on a competitive level without the use of shields and try to rely on mutagen and combat prayer then dont wonder why you are called clueless. You can have them for some additional support if you have the space but you cannot rely on them. You simply cannot survive like that against a decent player or even in a 1vX scenario.
Mighty chudan to get high resistances etc. Yeah i could put on heavy armor too if i wanted. But choices like that fall into the category of gimping ur build and not having a competitive build. And high resistances are completely irrelevant with SB to begin with. Its oblivion dmg. You can stack 50k resistances for all i care. It will still do the same dmg.
Lights champion? You do realise that this is an ult right? Ok you use it, u get healed and then what? Lights champion and ball of lightning are good against SB for one purpose. To gtfo. Which brings me back to the initial argument. The counter to SB is run away. Great counter.
Sorry if I misread, the way you worded it seemed like you were referring to yourself as one of the best sorcs in the game and I also assumed you were dieing to SB because why else would someone be whining about such an easily countered set.
As far as reading comprehension goes, great advice might want to read it back over so you can understand basic game mechanics and not just half of what I said.
I still use a shield, I just don't rely on it as my only form of defense. Relying on one form of defense on any class is certain death or in your case you just run away. How you gonna get better if you keep running? Apparently that's the new meta lately.
Anyway resistance does make a difference with SB because it allows me to drop a shield(no shield no SB damage!) and in conjunction with my hot's go on the offensive. You know those really cool sparkly bang boom abilities that damage and cc players and prevent them from making you a running target. It's not too hard to see if your taking damage under your shield, just gotta take a peek at that pretty red health bar staring right at ya.
From reading your posts seems like your one of them sorc that hides in the back of a Zerg spamming executes and as soon as someone targets you ya run away. That's not playing at a competitive level, but if you keep practicing and are willing to adapt then you won't have to keep running away from cheesy armor sets.
0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For Example guys, just look this video here. You can see how much Damage he does with Shieldbreaker without being in a huuuuuge disadvantage cause he also kills CP 720 guys with his 2h easily. He is doing about 4-5k Surprise Attack. Where is the disadvantage here?
He is running an infused Resto Staff with Oblivion Damage Enchant + Shieldbreaker wich deals about 4-5k with Enchant. JUST! doing a light attack. Nothing more. JUST light attack.
Now tell me how this is balanced. You can clearly see how no one, also me in this video, Has any kind of chance against this.
They trying to kite, they trying to burst him down. No chance. Shieldbreaker proccing without cooldown from undogdable Resto Light Attacks with Oblivion Dmg Enchant and he still can kill with his 2h doing a decent amount of Dmg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpshWeuZtX4
The video proves nothing about SB being op. Most of the video the players are also being targeted by other players. Most of the video he does not have cc immunity yet no one tries to cc him or attack to apply pressure.
It's not rocket science but if your shield is still showing active but your still taking damage then stop stacking shields, heal, cc, and apply pressure.
At the end of the video he also gets targeted by multiple players and jumps to his death like a coward because that's how op SB is.
Great, let's stop defending ourselves so we can die a different way and not to a stupidly op proc set.
This set has to go, when you can kill people thus easily while they keep up their main defence something is wrong.
That's why defiles are too strong atm
That's why medium armor dodging is dead
That's why poisons and siphoner are op
I agree that proc sets, poisons, and siphoner are stupid and should be removed from the game, but Zos seems to feel differently and keeps making worse proc sets despite the community not wanting them.
My point was that it's an easy set to counter and all the video showed was people either being zerged down, sneak attacks, and not fighting back so of course they're going to die no matter what sets he was using.
At the end he couldn't hold his own cause the set is garbage so he jumped off the bridge. I've got 5 magic toons and none of them have ever died to SB. If your not willing to change your build or play style to survive then there really is no argument for nerfs.
You are talking about a set that hardcounters an entire class by just spamming light attacks. Let that sink in for a second before calling it balanced or "easy to counter".
It doesn't hard counter an entire class though, only players that rely strictly on one form of defense. That's a choice issue not a class issue. There's 6 pages of people giving working counters, but if you want to play sorc the "old fashioned way" and then wonder why it doesn't work then again that's your choice.
I'd be happy if they removed all proc sets from pvp, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so your best bet is to adapt your build and play style to counter it like many others already have.
Please do that. Please slot Rapid Regen, Power Surge, Boundless, and hell, Blessing of Restoration for giggles. So you don't immediately die to a single SB zergling.
Please give then the responsible sorc on your platform your position. He/she will happily come and laugh at your weak defenses while crushing you with a single burst combo.
Or, if he's busy, he'll send a couple randoms to bang your brains out with Wrecking Blow or Surprise Attack spam because you have no shield defenses.
There's a reason sorcs utilize shields and only rarely HoTs. We need that defense. You're suggesting to become fodder for 99% of Cyrodiil just to not die to that single SB person in a zerg. And that's the problem here. There is no satisfying way to deal with SB that wouldn't devastate your build against everyone else. No other class has that problem.
You can have both; shields and hot's. Better yet you can have shields, hot's, and resistance. There's plenty of ways to do this without devastating your build and actually make you stronger.
You have options if you choose to use them, but then again we wouldn't have nerf threads if people were willing to learn and adapt and use those options.
And this is why you shouldnt talk about sorcs, because you dont know what ur talking about. We are talking about competitive builds here. There is a reason why sorcs have the same playstyle for years. There is a reason why top sorcs of the game are still playing a shield based playstyle.
You are using the same pathetic excuse that every single clueless person used in the past when it comes to sorcs and yet, not one of you ever posted even a semi viable build that doesnt rely on shields. You know what they say. Put ur money where ur mouth is and show to everyone why the best sorcs in the game are not that good after all.
Maybe you should be the one not talking about sorcs if your still dieing to SB. You obviously do not know the class as well as you think you do especially if you think your one of the self proclaimed best sorcs in the game.
There's a difference between a duel or only fighting 2-3 people versus fighting a group which seems to be the main complaint about SB. Small scale then yes the traditional shield stacking style works best, but when you greatly outnumbered that style does not work and you will be dead in no time unless you wanna run away from every fight.
I never said not to use a shield, but rather relying strictly on them as your only form of defense is not effective. For large scale battles I only use hardened ward and then mutagen, combat prayer, and degeneration for heals. Degeneration is nice when your outnumbered since you can stack the heal on multiple players and also have a chance to heal on your light attack weaves. You also have mutagen ticking and a burst heal if you get below 20%. Combat prayer is also helpful for a burst heal since it can't be interrupted, boosts your resistance, and gives you a damage bonus.
I also use ball of lightning rather then streak since it absorbs projectiles which also helps your survivability. With resto you also have lights champion and if that's not enough heals to fight a SB user then you gotta work on your skills. Maybe look at that big red health bar on your screen once in awhile and if you notice your health going down, but your shield is still up then maybe it would be a good idea to stop applying your shield, throw down some hot's, and go on the offensive. Last I checked SB users are not immune to damage or cc's.
I also use mighty chudan because having that big resistance bonus all the time without having to slot a skill or waste magic is huge. Not to mention whether you're using 1,2, or even 3 shields they will go down and you will be lying on your back waiting to die if you don't have any resistance to help mitigate damage.
So to clear things up I never said I was a great sorc, just that I have enough sense to be able to survive an underwhelming cheese set without a dramatic whining of how it destroys a class when it clearly doesn't. I've also made it very clear that I don't like proc sets and would love to see them removed from pvp, but that's not going to happen. So you have a choice to keep doing what your doing which clearly is not working or adapt your play style.
Never said im dying to SB. Another pathetic excuse every clueless potato usually use. "If you are dying to, L2P bluh bluh bluh". Nice try, but i guess try harder? I also never said that im one of the best sorcs in the game. Seems like you have basic reading comprehension issues.
The entire class relies on shields period. Relies, means that if you are going for a competitive build, you need to use the stupid shields. If you actually believe that you can fight solo on a competitive level without the use of shields and try to rely on mutagen and combat prayer then dont wonder why you are called clueless. You can have them for some additional support if you have the space but you cannot rely on them. You simply cannot survive like that against a decent player or even in a 1vX scenario.
Mighty chudan to get high resistances etc. Yeah i could put on heavy armor too if i wanted. But choices like that fall into the category of gimping ur build and not having a competitive build. And high resistances are completely irrelevant with SB to begin with. Its oblivion dmg. You can stack 50k resistances for all i care. It will still do the same dmg.
Lights champion? You do realise that this is an ult right? Ok you use it, u get healed and then what? Lights champion and ball of lightning are good against SB for one purpose. To gtfo. Which brings me back to the initial argument. The counter to SB is run away. Great counter.
Sorry if I misread, the way you worded it seemed like you were referring to yourself as one of the best sorcs in the game and I also assumed you were dieing to SB because why else would someone be whining about such an easily countered set.
As far as reading comprehension goes, great advice might want to read it back over so you can understand basic game mechanics and not just half of what I said.
I still use a shield, I just don't rely on it as my only form of defense. Relying on one form of defense on any class is certain death or in your case you just run away. How you gonna get better if you keep running? Apparently that's the new meta lately.
Anyway resistance does make a difference with SB because it allows me to drop a shield(no shield no SB damage!) and in conjunction with my hot's go on the offensive. You know those really cool sparkly bang boom abilities that damage and cc players and prevent them from making you a running target. It's not too hard to see if your taking damage under your shield, just gotta take a peek at that pretty red health bar staring right at ya.
From reading your posts seems like your one of them sorc that hides in the back of a Zerg spamming executes and as soon as someone targets you ya run away. That's not playing at a competitive level, but if you keep practicing and are willing to adapt then you won't have to keep running away from cheesy armor sets.
No, i was referring to the actual best sorcs in the game. Multiple and well known people. Look them up and educate urself when it comes to the class. Sorcs are playing prety much the exact same playstyle for years. Everyone agree on that. And here you are still repeating the same bs that every clueless person said in the past but this is the only thing u do. Just talk and talk and talk.
Also i do not sit behind zergs trying to execute people. I am impressed tho, u did try harder. But u can do even better. Try harder again. I am actually playing solo. Which is the reason why i know that letting ur shields down while fighting outnumbered or a good player is just going to get you killed. Something u clearly dont cause u dont really play solo and therefore dont really know the class. But even if u dont u should still know it cause again every competitive sorc in the game relies on shields and always reapply them.
No, resistances and mutagen will not save you. Period. Just stop, u are making urself look stupid with comments like that. I dont know what kind of potatoes you are fighting but any decent player will blow you to pieces if u try to let ur shields down and rely on chudan and mutagen. Light armor 20k-25k hp and 15k-20k resistances and u actually believe that u can afford letting ur shields down. In a meta where people have abilities with 20k+ tooltips u actually believe that combat preayer and mutagen is going to save you. Makes me doubt if u even play the class at all. And im not even going to get into bar space and what you actually drop for those which means that u gimp ur build even futher. Ill make it a little easier for you. Look up Malcolm and watch his opinion on how far you are going to get if u let shields down. Then you can let him know that he is not competitive cause "he cant adapt" and how he needs to L2P. Feel free to watch Pelicans video too to see his opinion about which one is better between harness and rapid regen.
Seriously tho, is it so hard for you to read? I literally said that you can use other forms of defence for additional support, you choose a hot and a crappy self heal and some resistances. Good for you even tho i have no clue what u drop for those. I choose dodge roll cause its the best scaling defense mechanic. Regardless of what u choose tho. Shields is the main defence and letting them down isnt really an option. Funny thing is i am prety sure that you are relying on shield as well and dont actually let it drop and fight. You are probably getting the delusion of being able to play and survive without it cause u dont die the 1-2 seconds is down before u reapply it and u actually thing that this letting it drop for an extensive period is a viable tactic.
To wrap up, you actually believe that letting ur shields down and relying on hots and chudan is viable. Of course u havent actually showed any footage of that build in action. You basically said that it doesnt matter how u die in 1vX cause u would die anw and from ur comments it seems like you dont play or care about solo playstyle in general. The only thing i understand from all that is that you are prety much running around in groups and never actually tried to play solo which would explain why you lack basic knowledge when it comes to the class and why you actually believe that letting ur shields down is a viable tactic or that u get the delusion of this being a viable tactic because u dont die in the 1-2 seconds its down. Sure its a viable tactic. If u want to read a death recap its probably the fastest way to do it.
Regardless of all that tho it all boils down to one thing. SB is a skilless piece of crap and people shouldnt even have to try to counter crap like that cause it shouldnt exist in the first place. And whether u die or not by the set it doesnt change what the set actually does. Or not doing since its not actually doing what its supposed to be doing. It doesnt break shields. It entirely ignores them. But yeah sure, its a L2P issue when people have to gimp their builds just to counter crap like that. The irony tho. Telling people to L2P in threads about about proc sets.Edited by pieratsos on March 17, 2018 12:40AM1