Magicka sorcerers.

Priyasekarssk · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

Too weak if you don´t use harness magica. Too strong if you do use it.

For open world pvp that is.

Light armor shields are totally useless.

Feanor wrote: »

I posted this in another thread, but it's still accurate.

Ok. Let’s have a look on these best passives in the game.

Rebate - Restore 1452 Magicka if a pet is killed. Very situational and as the base cost of a pet summon is 3495, doesn’t even refund a significant amount of the cost.

Power Stone - Reduce Ultimate cost by 15%. Very strong.

Daedric Protection - Increases health and stam recovery with a Daedric Summoning ability slotted. Nice, but not very powerful (stamSorcs seldom have one of these slotted, and magSorcs mostly run base stamina Regen).

Expert Summoner - increase health by 8% with an active pet. Again, situational, it’s nice on pet builds.

Unholy Knowledge - reduces Magicka and stamina costs of all abilities by 5%. Very good passive considering Alteration gives 6% and is a 5 pc set.

Blood magic - Hitting an enemy with a Dark Magic ability heals for 8% max health. The heal is negligible. Even with 24k health it’s a 1.920 heal before Battle Spirit. It’s not really noticeable.

Persistence - increase the duration of Dark Magic abilities by 20%. Most notably it’s an extra 2 seconds on negate and an extra 6 on mines. Not really awesome.

Exploitation - grants minor prophecy upon activating a dark magic ability. Good for group play as it’s one of the few sources of minor prophecy. However in PvP the worth of extra Spell Crit is not great.

Capacitor - Increase mag recovery by 10%. Good passive.

Energized - increase physical and shock damage by 5%. Good passive.

Implosion - 6% chance when dealing shock or physical damage to disintegrate an opponent while he is under 15% HP, dealing 4372 shock/physical damage. The most hated passive in the game I guess. A random proc execute. It‘s bad design and should be changed to something else that helps the Sorc kit.

Expert Mage - increase weapon and spell damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted. While that may sound great Sorcs are so tight on bar space (even if you consider overload) that you don’t get that much out of it.

So we have 5 really good passives. Out of 12.

Master Assassin - Increase your weapon and spell damage by 10% while you are sneaking or invisible. Stuns from sneak have a 100% duration increase.

Executioner - restore 1876 Mag or Stam if an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by an Assassination ability.

Pressure Points - increase weapon and spell crit by 438 for each Assassination ability slotted

Hemorrhage - Increase critical damage done by 10%, dealing critical damage grants you and your group minor savagery.

Refreshing Shadows - increase all recovery by 15%.

Shadow Barrier - casting a shadow ability grants Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, duration increased by 25% for every piece of Heavy Armor.

Dark Vigor - Increase Max health by 3% for each shadow ability slotted

Dark Veil - Increase duration of shadow abilities by 15%

Catalyst - gain 20 ultimate after drinking a potion.

Magicka Flood - gain 8% Max Magicka while a siphoning ability is slotted

Soul Siphoner - Increase healing done by 3% for each siphoning ability slotted

Transfer - casting a siphoning ability generates 2 ultimate. 4 second cooldown.

I count at least 9 good ones. Out of 12. But yeah. Nerf Sorcs.

Have fun with 1v1 with NB and wardens.

Seraphayel · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

I posted this in another thread, but it's still accurate.

Ok. Let’s have a look on these best passives in the game.

Rebate - Restore 1452 Magicka if a pet is killed. Very situational and as the base cost of a pet summon is 3495, doesn’t even refund a significant amount of the cost.

Power Stone - Reduce Ultimate cost by 15%. Very strong.

Daedric Protection - Increases health and stam recovery with a Daedric Summoning ability slotted. Nice, but not very powerful (stamSorcs seldom have one of these slotted, and magSorcs mostly run base stamina Regen).

Expert Summoner - increase health by 8% with an active pet. Again, situational, it’s nice on pet builds.

Unholy Knowledge - reduces Magicka and stamina costs of all abilities by 5%. Very good passive considering Alteration gives 6% and is a 5 pc set.

Blood magic - Hitting an enemy with a Dark Magic ability heals for 8% max health. The heal is negligible. Even with 24k health it’s a 1.920 heal before Battle Spirit. It’s not really noticeable.

Persistence - increase the duration of Dark Magic abilities by 20%. Most notably it’s an extra 2 seconds on negate and an extra 6 on mines. Not really awesome.

Exploitation - grants minor prophecy upon activating a dark magic ability. Good for group play as it’s one of the few sources of minor prophecy. However in PvP the worth of extra Spell Crit is not great.

Capacitor - Increase mag recovery by 10%. Good passive.

Energized - increase physical and shock damage by 5%. Good passive.

Implosion - 6% chance when dealing shock or physical damage to disintegrate an opponent while he is under 15% HP, dealing 4372 shock/physical damage. The most hated passive in the game I guess. A random proc execute. It‘s bad design and should be changed to something else that helps the Sorc kit.

Expert Mage - increase weapon and spell damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted. While that may sound great Sorcs are so tight on bar space (even if you consider overload) that you don’t get that much out of it.

So we have 5 really good passives. Out of 12.

Master Assassin - Increase your weapon and spell damage by 10% while you are sneaking or invisible. Stuns from sneak have a 100% duration increase.

Executioner - restore 1876 Mag or Stam if an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by an Assassination ability.

Pressure Points - increase weapon and spell crit by 438 for each Assassination ability slotted

Hemorrhage - Increase critical damage done by 10%, dealing critical damage grants you and your group minor savagery.

Refreshing Shadows - increase all recovery by 15%.

Shadow Barrier - casting a shadow ability grants Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, duration increased by 25% for every piece of Heavy Armor.

Dark Vigor - Increase Max health by 3% for each shadow ability slotted

Dark Veil - Increase duration of shadow abilities by 15%

Catalyst - gain 20 ultimate after drinking a potion.

Magicka Flood - gain 8% Max Magicka while a siphoning ability is slotted

Soul Siphoner - Increase healing done by 3% for each siphoning ability slotted

Transfer - casting a siphoning ability generates 2 ultimate. 4 second cooldown.

I count at least 9 good ones. Out of 12. But yeah. Nerf Sorcs.

On my NB I would trade 2-3 passives for Power Stone. That's how great it is. NB passives are as situational as most Sorc passives. I agree that the pet passives are not that great and should also benefit non-pet-players. Nevertheless, compared to DK (where most passives are abysmal) I'd say Sorc and NB is fine when it comes to that. In the last battleground I got killed twice through Implosion. I hate and love that passive at the same time. The proc chance might seem low but it is proccing frequently and doing massive damage, even in PvP.

Feanor · March 2018

@Seraphayel

Between Catalyst, Combat Frenzy and general ultimate gain through fighting the very cheap NB Ultimates (hello Incap) are almost spammables. NBs certainly don't need Power Stone. As for Sorcs every Ultimate costs 200+ before Power Stone with the exception of Overload. It really is comparing apples to oranges.

Biro123 · March 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

i'm okay with sorcs damage, buff their frags by 20% for all i care.

my problem is about their defenses, a glass cannon shouldn't have same damage mitigation as a tank.

But they are neither 'Glass' nor 'Cannon'.

Please stop equating them to cloth casters of other games... in the same way that in those other games, tanks can't heal, healers can't mitigate or do damage, and wizards can't defend..

Seraphayel · March 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

1. I agree. Nightblade has some of the best melee abilities in game. Sorc has some situational abilities that can be used in melee range and are quite strong (Mines) but I agree, their melee toolkit is worse overall. I know many of you think Streak is weak but granted how clunky and bugged Cloak is I'd prefer Streak. That's personal taste.

2. NB HoTs in PvP are really underwhelming. No NB stays alive with Path or Funnel HoTs. Most (if not all) use either Resto Staff or the light armour Shield as well. Sorcs have a quite strong heal with Matriarch and Surge is quite strong as well (I'd say Surge heals for the same amount if not more than the mentioned NB HoTs).

3. I'd say the difference is trivial in PvP.

4. What? The Sorc ranged kit is a lot better than the NB ranged kit imho. Frags, Curse, Wrath vs. Assassin, Cripple and Impale. On top of that the Sorc ultimates are so much stronger in group play (Negate Magic in PvP is still one of the best ultimates).

The difference between Sorc and NB is just not as big as you want it to make. I play more or less both and they're still different classes each having different (dis-)advantages.

smacky · March 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

i'm okay with sorcs damage, buff their frags by 20% for all i care.

my problem is about their defenses, a glass cannon shouldn't have same damage mitigation as a tank.

A sorc does not have anywhere near the damage mitigation of a tank.

I run a sorc as my main, and my buffed health is still only 18k or so. My shield is 13k, even if you are counting Boundless Armour granting an increase to physical and spell resistance, if a group has a warden in it, Frost Cloak does this for everyone in it's target range, and it does not stack with Boundless armour.

I'd be curious to know what stats you are basing your assumption that a sorc has the same damage mitigation as a tank off.

smacky · March 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

i'm okay with sorcs damage, buff their frags by 20% for all i care.

my problem is about their defenses, a glass cannon shouldn't have same damage mitigation as a tank.

A sorc does not have anywhere near the damage mitigation of a tank.

I run a sorc as my main, and my buffed health is still only 18k or so. My shield is 13k, even if you are counting Boundless Armour granting an increase to physical and spell resistance, if a group has a warden in it, Frost Cloak does this for everyone in it's target range, and it does not stack with Boundless armour.

I'd be curious to know what stats you are basing your assumption that a sorc has the same damage mitigation as a tank off.

smacky · March 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

i'm okay with sorcs damage, buff their frags by 20% for all i care.

my problem is about their defenses, a glass cannon shouldn't have same damage mitigation as a tank.

A sorc does not have anywhere near the damage mitigation of a tank.

I run a sorc as my main, and my buffed health is still only 18k or so. My shield is 13k, even if you are counting Boundless Armour granting an increase to physical and spell resistance, if a group has a warden in it, Frost Cloak does this for everyone in it's target range, and it does not stack with Boundless armour.

I'd be curious to know what stats you are basing your assumption that a sorc has the same damage mitigation as a tank off.

Biro123 · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

1. I agree. Nightblade has some of the best melee abilities in game. Sorc has some situational abilities that can be used in melee range and are quite strong (Mines) but I agree, their melee toolkit is worse overall. I know many of you think Streak is weak but granted how clunky and bugged Cloak is I'd prefer Streak. That's personal taste.

2. NB HoTs in PvP are really underwhelming. No NB stays alive with Path or Funnel HoTs. Most (if not all) use either Resto Staff or the light armour Shield as well. Sorcs have a quite strong heal with Matriarch and Surge is quite strong as well (I'd say Surge heals for the same amount if not more than the mentioned NB HoTs).

3. I'd say the difference is trivial in PvP.

4. What? The Sorc ranged kit is a lot better than the NB ranged kit imho. Frags, Curse, Wrath vs. Assassin, Cripple and Impale. On top of that the Sorc ultimates are so much stronger in group play (Negate Magic in PvP is still one of the best ultimates).

The difference between Sorc and NB is just not as big as you want it to make. I play more or less both and they're still different classes each having different (dis-)advantages.

Did you just turn a post about build diversity into it being about which is stronger?

And number 4 is about DW. Show me the sorc anytime - the one that can be used with a DW build?

Seraphayel · March 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

1. I agree. Nightblade has some of the best melee abilities in game. Sorc has some situational abilities that can be used in melee range and are quite strong (Mines) but I agree, their melee toolkit is worse overall. I know many of you think Streak is weak but granted how clunky and bugged Cloak is I'd prefer Streak. That's personal taste.

2. NB HoTs in PvP are really underwhelming. No NB stays alive with Path or Funnel HoTs. Most (if not all) use either Resto Staff or the light armour Shield as well. Sorcs have a quite strong heal with Matriarch and Surge is quite strong as well (I'd say Surge heals for the same amount if not more than the mentioned NB HoTs).

3. I'd say the difference is trivial in PvP.

4. What? The Sorc ranged kit is a lot better than the NB ranged kit imho. Frags, Curse, Wrath vs. Assassin, Cripple and Impale. On top of that the Sorc ultimates are so much stronger in group play (Negate Magic in PvP is still one of the best ultimates).

The difference between Sorc and NB is just not as big as you want it to make. I play more or less both and they're still different classes each having different (dis-)advantages.

Did you just turn a post about build diversity into it being about which is stronger?

And number 4 is about DW. Show me the sorc anytime - the one that can be used with a DW build?

I did not want to talk about who is stronger and who isn't. I just said that Sorc is not necessarily less diverse than NB when it comes to useful builds.

Biro123 · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

1. I agree. Nightblade has some of the best melee abilities in game. Sorc has some situational abilities that can be used in melee range and are quite strong (Mines) but I agree, their melee toolkit is worse overall. I know many of you think Streak is weak but granted how clunky and bugged Cloak is I'd prefer Streak. That's personal taste.

2. NB HoTs in PvP are really underwhelming. No NB stays alive with Path or Funnel HoTs. Most (if not all) use either Resto Staff or the light armour Shield as well. Sorcs have a quite strong heal with Matriarch and Surge is quite strong as well (I'd say Surge heals for the same amount if not more than the mentioned NB HoTs).

3. I'd say the difference is trivial in PvP.

4. What? The Sorc ranged kit is a lot better than the NB ranged kit imho. Frags, Curse, Wrath vs. Assassin, Cripple and Impale. On top of that the Sorc ultimates are so much stronger in group play (Negate Magic in PvP is still one of the best ultimates).

The difference between Sorc and NB is just not as big as you want it to make. I play more or less both and they're still different classes each having different (dis-)advantages.

Did you just turn a post about build diversity into it being about which is stronger?

And number 4 is about DW. Show me the sorc anytime - the one that can be used with a DW build?

I did not want to talk about who is stronger and who isn't. I just said that Sorc is not necessarily less diverse than NB when it comes to useful builds.

I play both and I disagree. There are plenty of ways I play my magblade. I have a cloak-heavy light-armour melee build. I have a heavy-armour heal-stacking ranged build, and a light-armour shield-using ranged build. All play quite differently. All are viable.

Sorc does shields and mobility for defence - always - so hardened/harness/boundless/streak - with a resto ability for heals. Sorc does ranged offence consisting of frags/wrath/curse - always.. with a destro attack to use as an anytime/cc. That's 9 of the skills defined already - and the playstyle already determined. It is always the same. Always. Doing anything else is gimping yourself. The only differences in sorc playstyles are :
1. DW.. Stull uses curse/frags/wrath, still defends with shields... plays the same - just slightly more burst at the cost of sustained damage.
2. Pets - you can use matriarch for a nice big heal - yes - but guess what? You still need shields to keep that stupid pet alive. And because you still need shields, you need light armour to sustain them so heavy+heals still doesn't work. Playstyle is still the same as other sorcs - same attack abilities, same defence mechanism - you just give up mobility for a big (and unreliable) burst heal.

That's it.. Standard destro/resto, DW or Pet - but essentially, they all still play the same way. same range, same offensive abilities, same defence mechanisms.

In diversity - sorc has very, very little. Magblade has tons in comparison.

Maulkin · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

Too weak if you don´t use harness magica. Too strong if you do use it.

For open world pvp that is.

In CP campaigns, that is. Because in any form of No-CP PvP, the shield stack can be burnt down in one combo. Bastion passive, as well as increased max and regen stats from CPs go a long way towards carrying the shield stack meta.

And if you decide to not run Harness in no-CP you are literally the squishiest class around.

GrigorijMalahevich · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I posted this in another thread, but it's still accurate.

Ok. Let’s have a look on these best passives in the game.

Rebate - Restore 1452 Magicka if a pet is killed. Very situational and as the base cost of a pet summon is 3495, doesn’t even refund a significant amount of the cost.

Power Stone - Reduce Ultimate cost by 15%. Very strong.

Daedric Protection - Increases health and stam recovery with a Daedric Summoning ability slotted. Nice, but not very powerful (stamSorcs seldom have one of these slotted, and magSorcs mostly run base stamina Regen).

Expert Summoner - increase health by 8% with an active pet. Again, situational, it’s nice on pet builds.

Unholy Knowledge - reduces Magicka and stamina costs of all abilities by 5%. Very good passive considering Alteration gives 6% and is a 5 pc set.

Blood magic - Hitting an enemy with a Dark Magic ability heals for 8% max health. The heal is negligible. Even with 24k health it’s a 1.920 heal before Battle Spirit. It’s not really noticeable.

Persistence - increase the duration of Dark Magic abilities by 20%. Most notably it’s an extra 2 seconds on negate and an extra 6 on mines. Not really awesome.

Exploitation - grants minor prophecy upon activating a dark magic ability. Good for group play as it’s one of the few sources of minor prophecy. However in PvP the worth of extra Spell Crit is not great.

Capacitor - Increase mag recovery by 10%. Good passive.

Energized - increase physical and shock damage by 5%. Good passive.

Implosion - 6% chance when dealing shock or physical damage to disintegrate an opponent while he is under 15% HP, dealing 4372 shock/physical damage. The most hated passive in the game I guess. A random proc execute. It‘s bad design and should be changed to something else that helps the Sorc kit.

Expert Mage - increase weapon and spell damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted. While that may sound great Sorcs are so tight on bar space (even if you consider overload) that you don’t get that much out of it.

So we have 5 really good passives. Out of 12.

Master Assassin - Increase your weapon and spell damage by 10% while you are sneaking or invisible. Stuns from sneak have a 100% duration increase.

Executioner - restore 1876 Mag or Stam if an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by an Assassination ability.

Pressure Points - increase weapon and spell crit by 438 for each Assassination ability slotted

Hemorrhage - Increase critical damage done by 10%, dealing critical damage grants you and your group minor savagery.

Refreshing Shadows - increase all recovery by 15%.

Shadow Barrier - casting a shadow ability grants Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, duration increased by 25% for every piece of Heavy Armor.

Dark Vigor - Increase Max health by 3% for each shadow ability slotted

Dark Veil - Increase duration of shadow abilities by 15%

Catalyst - gain 20 ultimate after drinking a potion.

Magicka Flood - gain 8% Max Magicka while a siphoning ability is slotted

Soul Siphoner - Increase healing done by 3% for each siphoning ability slotted

Transfer - casting a siphoning ability generates 2 ultimate. 4 second cooldown.

I count at least 9 good ones. Out of 12. But yeah. Nerf Sorcs.

On my NB I would trade 2-3 passives for Power Stone. That's how great it is. NB passives are as situational as most Sorc passives. I agree that the pet passives are not that great and should also benefit non-pet-players. Nevertheless, compared to DK (where most passives are abysmal) I'd say Sorc and NB is fine when it comes to that. In the last battleground I got killed twice through Implosion. I hate and love that passive at the same time. The proc chance might seem low but it is proccing frequently and doing massive damage, even in PvP.

@Seraphayel yeah, power stone so strong, but I have only seen NB's hit me with two ultimates in my death recap... Makes total sense, power stone op!

Maulkin · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

1. I agree. Nightblade has some of the best melee abilities in game. Sorc has some situational abilities that can be used in melee range and are quite strong (Mines) but I agree, their melee toolkit is worse overall. I know many of you think Streak is weak but granted how clunky and bugged Cloak is I'd prefer Streak. That's personal taste.

2. NB HoTs in PvP are really underwhelming. No NB stays alive with Path or Funnel HoTs. Most (if not all) use either Resto Staff or the light armour Shield as well. Sorcs have a quite strong heal with Matriarch and Surge is quite strong as well (I'd say Surge heals for the same amount if not more than the mentioned NB HoTs).

3. I'd say the difference is trivial in PvP.

4. What? The Sorc ranged kit is a lot better than the NB ranged kit imho. Frags, Curse, Wrath vs. Assassin, Cripple and Impale. On top of that the Sorc ultimates are so much stronger in group play (Negate Magic in PvP is still one of the best ultimates).

The difference between Sorc and NB is just not as big as you want it to make. I play more or less both and they're still different classes each having different (dis-)advantages.

You conveniently forgot Funnel from the ranged toolkit of NBs.

Also Surge is far inferior as heals to anything NB has, bad perhaps malevolent offering. To state otherwise, is to advertise your own lack of knowledge. Many sorcs have dropped it altogether for PvP. It’s also dropped for PvE these days.

You can cast funnel or path and go defensive while receiving heals!as a NB. You can cloak or dodge or shield spam and keep getting heals. The moment you stop dealing damage as a sorc, you stop getting heals. It’s like relying on Siphoning Attack as your heal. The moment you go defensive, your HoTs are 0.

You can use Matriarch but that is not a HoT. It’s a burst heal from a skill that needs double barring and basically building around it. And it costs 4K per heal. Nowhere near as efficient as HoTs.

Priyasekarssk · March 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

1. I agree. Nightblade has some of the best melee abilities in game. Sorc has some situational abilities that can be used in melee range and are quite strong (Mines) but I agree, their melee toolkit is worse overall. I know many of you think Streak is weak but granted how clunky and bugged Cloak is I'd prefer Streak. That's personal taste.

2. NB HoTs in PvP are really underwhelming. No NB stays alive with Path or Funnel HoTs. Most (if not all) use either Resto Staff or the light armour Shield as well. Sorcs have a quite strong heal with Matriarch and Surge is quite strong as well (I'd say Surge heals for the same amount if not more than the mentioned NB HoTs).

3. I'd say the difference is trivial in PvP.

4. What? The Sorc ranged kit is a lot better than the NB ranged kit imho. Frags, Curse, Wrath vs. Assassin, Cripple and Impale. On top of that the Sorc ultimates are so much stronger in group play (Negate Magic in PvP is still one of the best ultimates).

The difference between Sorc and NB is just not as big as you want it to make. I play more or less both and they're still different classes each having different (dis-)advantages.

You conveniently forgot Funnel from the ranged toolkit of NBs.

Also Surge is far inferior as heals to anything NB has, bad perhaps malevolent offering. To state otherwise, is to advertise your own lack of knowledge. Many sorcs have dropped it altogether for PvP. It’s also dropped for PvE these days.

You can cast funnel or path and go defensive while receiving heals!as a NB. You can cloak or dodge or shield spam and keep getting heals. The moment you stop dealing damage as a sorc, you stop getting heals. It’s like relying on Siphoning Attack as your heal. The moment you go defensive, your HoTs are 0.

You can use Matriarch but that is not a HoT. It’s a burst heal from a skill that needs double barring and basically building around it. And it costs 4K per heal. Nowhere near as efficient as HoTs.

No ways its valid argument. Pet heals are not viable in PVP. You never done PVP ? I can kill bird in 1 hit . Nerfing shields hit Scorers very hard in PVP area. They have no sustain or escape for magicka scorer. A NB can kill scorer on 1v1 with no support in cyrodil on same skill level. If you cant do it , someone has to teach . Magicka scorere have no burst damage.
NB can always cloak away when situation is not favorite and outnumbered. Scorer can only play in group in PVPs now. Again this is in PVP area cyrodil. In PVE its neck to neck fight. Only stamina wardern can counter nightblades effectively at the moment. A NB on your back you are good as dead in cyrodil , unless you have tank build to survive.

Septimus_Magna · March 2018

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

1. I agree. Nightblade has some of the best melee abilities in game. Sorc has some situational abilities that can be used in melee range and are quite strong (Mines) but I agree, their melee toolkit is worse overall. I know many of you think Streak is weak but granted how clunky and bugged Cloak is I'd prefer Streak. That's personal taste.

2. NB HoTs in PvP are really underwhelming. No NB stays alive with Path or Funnel HoTs. Most (if not all) use either Resto Staff or the light armour Shield as well. Sorcs have a quite strong heal with Matriarch and Surge is quite strong as well (I'd say Surge heals for the same amount if not more than the mentioned NB HoTs).

3. I'd say the difference is trivial in PvP.

4. What? The Sorc ranged kit is a lot better than the NB ranged kit imho. Frags, Curse, Wrath vs. Assassin, Cripple and Impale. On top of that the Sorc ultimates are so much stronger in group play (Negate Magic in PvP is still one of the best ultimates).

The difference between Sorc and NB is just not as big as you want it to make. I play more or less both and they're still different classes each having different (dis-)advantages.

You conveniently forgot Funnel from the ranged toolkit of NBs.

Also Surge is far inferior as heals to anything NB has, bad perhaps malevolent offering. To state otherwise, is to advertise your own lack of knowledge. Many sorcs have dropped it altogether for PvP. It’s also dropped for PvE these days.

You can cast funnel or path and go defensive while receiving heals!as a NB. You can cloak or dodge or shield spam and keep getting heals. The moment you stop dealing damage as a sorc, you stop getting heals. It’s like relying on Siphoning Attack as your heal. The moment you go defensive, your HoTs are 0.

You can use Matriarch but that is not a HoT. It’s a burst heal from a skill that needs double barring and basically building around it. And it costs 4K per heal. Nowhere near as efficient as HoTs.

No ways its valid argument. Pet heals are not viable in PVP. You never done PVP ? I can kill bird in 1 hit . Nerfing shields hit Scorers very hard in PVP area. They have no sustain or escape for magicka scorer. A NB can kill scorer on 1v1 with no support in cyrodil on same skill level. If you cant do it , someone has to teach . Magicka scorere have no burst damage.
NB can always cloak away when situation is not favorite and outnumbered. Scorer can only play in group in PVPs now. Again this is in PVP area cyrodil. In PVE its neck to neck fight. Only stamina wardern can counter nightblades effectively at the moment. A NB on your back you are good as dead in cyrodil , unless you have tank build to survive.

Mate, you dont have a clue how you're talking to...

Kova · March 2018

In PVP? Really good against bad players, but feels like chewing glass when playing against good players. You're trapped in a meta no one really wants and gameplay revolves around a 4 second burst. If your opponent can count it's a hard fight every single time.

PVE is treating me well, personally.

Mayrael · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Why should Sorcerer be limited more than other classes when it comes to playstyles? Would love to see an example here, please.

Every class is pretty limited in their playstyle not just Sorc. Unfortunately that's the nature of ESO.

With a look at PvP, I can use my magblade as ganker or brawler. I can use light or heavy armor, I can go melee or ranged. I can run different sets, destro, resto, DW even 2h and still get good results.
Now try running a heavy armor mag sorc, look how difficult it got to run a DW mSorc. Or just think that every set up for mSorcs look nearly the same. At the moment, they are not just forced into really, really similar bar setups, they are even forced to use a specific weapon to make up for the stun removal on frags.

In my mind, most limiting factors are the missing class spam and the frag nerf on top of the need to double slot many skills. Plus shield stacking is annoying for everyone involved, but it's still necessary since ranged combat and mobility are easily countered by one gap closer.

Thanks for your post! So... how doesn't apply this to Sorcerer as well? You can play it the same way as a Nightblade. You are not forced to use skill A or armour Z, you've got mostly the same choices as a Nightblade. I agree that diversity might be a bit better for NBs at the moment but Sorcerers aren't in such a bad spot like some of you want it to make. To be fair the removal of Frags stun was necessary. The skill was OP. There were several ways ZOS could have nerfed it (less damage, lower proc chance, no CC) and they choose the no CC route which hurts PvP more than PvE - it still was a necessary nerf overall. Am I missing it on my Sorc? Sure. Nevertheless the skill overperformed a lot.

Let me just say that on my magbalde I use 2 non-class skills and these are optional to, I could go full nightblade skills and still would do fine, this making magblade open for any type of gear. On sorc though I am FORCED to use certain weapons and skills because sorc doesn't have them in their toolkit. On mag sorc I MUST use at least 2 weapon skills that bind me to using this types of weapons (well I can drop them but good luck trying to play that build) while in the end I usualy use 4 skills out of sorcs toolkit not because they are so good (I dont use them on magblade, because I have better class options) but because I don't have a choice. Same goes for magplar, magdk or magden. I play all of these and can say I have pretty good comparision.

But...

I don't think that removing stun from frags was a serious nerf. I like rune prison a lot. It gives much more control on stuning your enemy, which is critical when it goes to delayed burst class like sorc. In general PvP wise mag sorc feels pretty good right now. It can melt through newbies, 1v1 seems pretty balanced (only wardens are hard counter to sorcs because shimmering shield) ofc when we take into consideration simmilar level of players skills. Light armored sorc in open world is far more squishy than e.g. heavy armored magplar and can be anihilated in seconds, but thanks to mobility it can avoid much damage - positioning is everything when playing magsorc (very simmilar playstyle to magblade, kite&kill, more about predicting movement of enemies than reacting to it).

What would be nice? Equalization of Bolt Escape and morph distance traveled with gapclosers or adding increasing cost for gapclosers (not as big as for Bolt Escape but still) because right now when mag sorc gets into gapcloser range it stays there no matter what.

Beodamacsa · March 2018

madchuska83 wrote: »

Lost 4k with no change in gear or rotation.

Yup I noticed that too.

Beodamacsa · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

At least one thing never changes with Sorcs: The nerf QQing in the forum.

I think it happens with all classes tbh.

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

What would be nice? Equalization of Bolt Escape and morph distance traveled with gapclosers or adding increasing cost for gapclosers (not as big as for Bolt Escape but still) because right now when mag sorc gets into gapcloser range it stays there no matter what.

This.

The idea of being mobile to avoid damage is great, but it doesn't work that way. That's why mS are forced into shield(stacking).
I have a dozen of ideas on how to open up the sorc class but essentially this would be the start.

Priyasekarssk · March 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

1. I agree. Nightblade has some of the best melee abilities in game. Sorc has some situational abilities that can be used in melee range and are quite strong (Mines) but I agree, their melee toolkit is worse overall. I know many of you think Streak is weak but granted how clunky and bugged Cloak is I'd prefer Streak. That's personal taste.

2. NB HoTs in PvP are really underwhelming. No NB stays alive with Path or Funnel HoTs. Most (if not all) use either Resto Staff or the light armour Shield as well. Sorcs have a quite strong heal with Matriarch and Surge is quite strong as well (I'd say Surge heals for the same amount if not more than the mentioned NB HoTs).

3. I'd say the difference is trivial in PvP.

4. What? The Sorc ranged kit is a lot better than the NB ranged kit imho. Frags, Curse, Wrath vs. Assassin, Cripple and Impale. On top of that the Sorc ultimates are so much stronger in group play (Negate Magic in PvP is still one of the best ultimates).

The difference between Sorc and NB is just not as big as you want it to make. I play more or less both and they're still different classes each having different (dis-)advantages.

You conveniently forgot Funnel from the ranged toolkit of NBs.

Also Surge is far inferior as heals to anything NB has, bad perhaps malevolent offering. To state otherwise, is to advertise your own lack of knowledge. Many sorcs have dropped it altogether for PvP. It’s also dropped for PvE these days.

You can cast funnel or path and go defensive while receiving heals!as a NB. You can cloak or dodge or shield spam and keep getting heals. The moment you stop dealing damage as a sorc, you stop getting heals. It’s like relying on Siphoning Attack as your heal. The moment you go defensive, your HoTs are 0.

You can use Matriarch but that is not a HoT. It’s a burst heal from a skill that needs double barring and basically building around it. And it costs 4K per heal. Nowhere near as efficient as HoTs.

No ways its valid argument. Pet heals are not viable in PVP. You never done PVP ? I can kill bird in 1 hit . Nerfing shields hit Scorers very hard in PVP area. They have no sustain or escape for magicka scorer. A NB can kill scorer on 1v1 with no support in cyrodil on same skill level. If you cant do it , someone has to teach . Magicka scorere have no burst damage.
NB can always cloak away when situation is not favorite and outnumbered. Scorer can only play in group in PVPs now. Again this is in PVP area cyrodil. In PVE its neck to neck fight. Only stamina wardern can counter nightblades effectively at the moment. A NB on your back you are good as dead in cyrodil , unless you have tank build to survive.

Mate, you dont have a clue how you're talking to...

Hehe. No more wasting time for me for people who always looks for cheese, with no data points. Let me tell you how to kill a magicka sorc with stamina NB with cheese . Get stamina drain poison. Apply in bow with poison injection. Get on back magick sorc in PVP area. Apply poison injection with stamina drain with full effect , combined with CC, Magicka sorc can break only 1 CC max , even with potion uptime. CC again , if he break, mostly cant.. In PVP area stamina pool is even lower. Practice 100 ways of killing a magicka sorc. On groups this could be tricky. On 1v1 forget it , no chance unless there is skill difference.

Priyasekarssk · March 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

here we go again?

all these guys don't know what they say. I literally met several times magsorcs that troll me by staying still and letting me attack them constantly, while they just spam the absorb shield and damage me so much i must play defensively.

and don't come with ur L2P useless [snip], i already do whatever u already intend to say.

nerf absorb shields (not really sorc)

Its L2p issue . Sorcerer no longer a competitive pvp class in fact under performer in PVP. Sorcerer can definitely provide good support role in PVP . sorcerer days are long gone in PVP . Ask any pro player in PVP. NB and warden are top dogs now. No one will take you serious if post some thing like this.

[Edited for quote]

Derra · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Seraphayel

Between Catalyst, Combat Frenzy and general ultimate gain through fighting the very cheap NB Ultimates (hello Incap) are almost spammables. NBs certainly don't need Power Stone. As for Sorcs every Ultimate costs 200+ before Power Stone with the exception of Overload. It really is comparing apples to oranges.

Also the nb ult generation over siphoning and potion passives results in more ultgain than powerstone can possibly save you...

D0PAMINE · March 2018

I was using my mSorc last night (which im not great at playing) helping some dude with a WB, and he was like "Damn you're OP af!". Lol caught me off guard.

Ankael07 · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

I posted this in another thread, but it's still accurate.

Ok. Let’s have a look on these best passives in the game.

Rebate - Restore 1452 Magicka if a pet is killed. Very situational and as the base cost of a pet summon is 3495, doesn’t even refund a significant amount of the cost.

Power Stone - Reduce Ultimate cost by 15%. Very strong.

Daedric Protection - Increases health and stam recovery with a Daedric Summoning ability slotted. Nice, but not very powerful (stamSorcs seldom have one of these slotted, and magSorcs mostly run base stamina Regen).

Expert Summoner - increase health by 8% with an active pet. Again, situational, it’s nice on pet builds.

Unholy Knowledge - reduces Magicka and stamina costs of all abilities by 5%. Very good passive considering Alteration gives 6% and is a 5 pc set.

Blood magic - Hitting an enemy with a Dark Magic ability heals for 8% max health. The heal is negligible. Even with 24k health it’s a 1.920 heal before Battle Spirit. It’s not really noticeable.

Persistence - increase the duration of Dark Magic abilities by 20%. Most notably it’s an extra 2 seconds on negate and an extra 6 on mines. Not really awesome.

Exploitation - grants minor prophecy upon activating a dark magic ability. Good for group play as it’s one of the few sources of minor prophecy. However in PvP the worth of extra Spell Crit is not great.

Capacitor - Increase mag recovery by 10%. Good passive.

Energized - increase physical and shock damage by 5%. Good passive.

Implosion - 6% chance when dealing shock or physical damage to disintegrate an opponent while he is under 15% HP, dealing 4372 shock/physical damage. The most hated passive in the game I guess. A random proc execute. It‘s bad design and should be changed to something else that helps the Sorc kit.

Expert Mage - increase weapon and spell damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted. While that may sound great Sorcs are so tight on bar space (even if you consider overload) that you don’t get that much out of it.

So we have 5 really good passives. Out of 12.

Master Assassin - Increase your weapon and spell damage by 10% while you are sneaking or invisible. Stuns from sneak have a 100% duration increase.

Executioner - restore 1876 Mag or Stam if an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by an Assassination ability.

Pressure Points - increase weapon and spell crit by 438 for each Assassination ability slotted

Hemorrhage - Increase critical damage done by 10%, dealing critical damage grants you and your group minor savagery.

Refreshing Shadows - increase all recovery by 15%.

Shadow Barrier - casting a shadow ability grants Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, duration increased by 25% for every piece of Heavy Armor.

Dark Vigor - Increase Max health by 3% for each shadow ability slotted

Dark Veil - Increase duration of shadow abilities by 15%

Catalyst - gain 20 ultimate after drinking a potion.

Magicka Flood - gain 8% Max Magicka while a siphoning ability is slotted

Soul Siphoner - Increase healing done by 3% for each siphoning ability slotted

Transfer - casting a siphoning ability generates 2 ultimate. 4 second cooldown.

I count at least 9 good ones. Out of 12. But yeah. Nerf Sorcs.

This and the noticeable lack of major+minor effects on Sorcerers really kills the fun since all you can do is timed burst.
On top of that, they removed Frag's stun and nerfed damage by 10%

Septimus_Magna · March 2018

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

1. I agree. Nightblade has some of the best melee abilities in game. Sorc has some situational abilities that can be used in melee range and are quite strong (Mines) but I agree, their melee toolkit is worse overall. I know many of you think Streak is weak but granted how clunky and bugged Cloak is I'd prefer Streak. That's personal taste.

2. NB HoTs in PvP are really underwhelming. No NB stays alive with Path or Funnel HoTs. Most (if not all) use either Resto Staff or the light armour Shield as well. Sorcs have a quite strong heal with Matriarch and Surge is quite strong as well (I'd say Surge heals for the same amount if not more than the mentioned NB HoTs).

3. I'd say the difference is trivial in PvP.

4. What? The Sorc ranged kit is a lot better than the NB ranged kit imho. Frags, Curse, Wrath vs. Assassin, Cripple and Impale. On top of that the Sorc ultimates are so much stronger in group play (Negate Magic in PvP is still one of the best ultimates).

The difference between Sorc and NB is just not as big as you want it to make. I play more or less both and they're still different classes each having different (dis-)advantages.

You conveniently forgot Funnel from the ranged toolkit of NBs.

Also Surge is far inferior as heals to anything NB has, bad perhaps malevolent offering. To state otherwise, is to advertise your own lack of knowledge. Many sorcs have dropped it altogether for PvP. It’s also dropped for PvE these days.

You can cast funnel or path and go defensive while receiving heals!as a NB. You can cloak or dodge or shield spam and keep getting heals. The moment you stop dealing damage as a sorc, you stop getting heals. It’s like relying on Siphoning Attack as your heal. The moment you go defensive, your HoTs are 0.

You can use Matriarch but that is not a HoT. It’s a burst heal from a skill that needs double barring and basically building around it. And it costs 4K per heal. Nowhere near as efficient as HoTs.

No ways its valid argument. Pet heals are not viable in PVP. You never done PVP ? I can kill bird in 1 hit . Nerfing shields hit Scorers very hard in PVP area. They have no sustain or escape for magicka scorer. A NB can kill scorer on 1v1 with no support in cyrodil on same skill level. If you cant do it , someone has to teach . Magicka scorere have no burst damage.
NB can always cloak away when situation is not favorite and outnumbered. Scorer can only play in group in PVPs now. Again this is in PVP area cyrodil. In PVE its neck to neck fight. Only stamina wardern can counter nightblades effectively at the moment. A NB on your back you are good as dead in cyrodil , unless you have tank build to survive.

Mate, you dont have a clue how you're talking to...

Hehe. No more wasting time for me for people who always looks for cheese, with no data points. Let me tell you how to kill a magicka sorc with stamina NB with cheese . Get stamina drain poison. Apply in bow with poison injection. Get on back magick sorc in PVP area. Apply poison injection with stamina drain with full effect , combined with CC, Magicka sorc can break only 1 CC max , even with potion uptime. CC again , if he break, mostly cant.. In PVP area stamina pool is even lower. Practice 100 ways of killing a magicka sorc. On groups this could be tricky. On 1v1 forget it , no chance unless there is skill difference.

Sounds good in theory but that would work against literally every magicka build. A magicka sorc can break free just as much as a templar for example. I also fail to see why the stam pool is smaller in Cyrodiil, I think its fairly common to run tri-stat food and/or enchants in pvp.

Minalan · March 2018

* In NO-CP BG’s: Sorc is not doing well, I don’t even play these anymore, sustain is bad. Nightblades pretty much run these, they’re five out of six players in any match (not joking).

* In CP open world: Sorc is middle of the pack, it’s a stamina warden and nightblade world, but you can still have fun with a group of friends. Especially if one of those friends plays a stamina warden or nightblade.

* Dueling: Sorc is in terrible shape, there hasn’t been a top 3 Sorc in an open legends tourney in almost a year, or a top 5 Sorc since last October. The best players in the game aren’t using Sorc, it could be they know something that many don’t (they do).

* Builds: Dual wield Sorc is officially out as a viable build without frags stun, and the frags damage nerf. Some guys cling to it, but there are too many builds that they can’t kill, including Destro staff Sorcs. So we’re all pushed into Destro/Resto again. Yay diversity?

* Build Variety: Two choices: Wear a sustain set or all regen jewelry glyphs. Pick one. Actual damage sets on a Sorc are so 2017, now it’s all about resources. There’s a reason YouTube has literally 800 shackle/lich PVP build videos (again, not kidding).

* PVE: We still get invited to trials and VDSA if the group is desperate enough. But they would rather have a nightblade instead of you.

In short, we got Wrobeled. Yes, that’s a level of incompetence so bad, we had to make a special verb for it.

Overall it’s not a complete disaster. In regular CP Cyrodiil you can still potato mash and have a good time. Most people don’t duel or BG, if you do you won’t be happy with Sorc.

Minalan · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Seraphayel

Between Catalyst, Combat Frenzy and general ultimate gain through fighting the very cheap NB Ultimates (hello Incap) are almost spammables. NBs certainly don't need Power Stone. As for Sorcs every Ultimate costs 200+ before Power Stone with the exception of Overload. It really is comparing apples to oranges.

Also the nb ult generation over siphoning and potion passives results in more ultgain than powerstone can possibly save you...

This pretty much, as usual @Derra knows the game.

PS isn’t that overpowered...

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Boring to play. even more boring to play against.