Flameheart wrote: »

One the one hand I do like the suggestion of the TO converting the almost non exististing bonus to max stats into a regen bonus which makes a difference (even it is a small one). The actual value is left to discussion. The current bonus at least is absolutely useless as it is, I guess we all agree about that.

On the other hand I am sure Zenimax won't change that into a reg bonus because it would stand in contradiction to their doctrine to decrease sustain (as they did with the last nerf *** to CPs and else).

Hymzir wrote: »

Okay... Here's the thing: Mathematically speaking, Invigorating is fine. Doesn't change the fact that it's a crap trait, and that there is no real reason to ever use it on purpose. All it's good for is as a bit better place holder gear for end game raiding community than Prosperous, and definitely much more so than Training. Which should never, under any circumstances at all, drop for max level gear.

The reason Invigorating sucks is simple - it's not the best option in any meaningful scenario. In other words - there is no actual use for it beyond as a placeholder. For any conceivable build and situation or role, there is a better option out there.

Health regen is utterly irrelevant for just about everyone except dedicated health regen builds, and they need as much of it as possible. So invigorating is of no use for them.

Magicka and Stamina builds need regen for their primary stat, ad to have it as high as possible without sacrificing too much to get it. The pittance they get for their secondary resource with Invigorating is irrelevant. Without gear that buffs it, and CP, and drink/food, that regen is gonna be pretty much base value anyway, and the small amount you'd get from Invigorating is not gonna mean anything at all.

The only ones who could, under any circumstance, consider Invigorating for realsies are hybrid builds, but they already gimp themselves so hard anyway, that even 7 pieces of legendary Invigorating gear will not help them. And even for them, there are much better armor traits available.

When the news about Prosperous being turned into Invigorating dropped, I noted that it was a bad move. ZOS was taking a non combat specced bit of game mechanics and giving it a combat role. A weak combat role - boosting regen. And that role already had an option - using Divines and a regen mundus. And using Divines to boost regen was already a sub-optimal use for armor traits, so having an alternative way for gear traits to boost regen that was crappier than the one already in game... That is some bad design right there.

It's even more aggravating that with this move they also removed a useful bit of game mechanics that really has no meaningful alternative. Prosperous certainly was a bad trait, and had no business dropping on endgame gear. But at least it had a purpose. You could rake in meaningful amount of gold by farming Imperial mobs. You could even boost this gain by relegating armor repair to all those repair kits that doing daily crafting writs keep giving you. It was a niche use, for niche builds, but at least it was a viable thing to do, and Prosperous had a meaningful use in game! Where as Invigorating does not.

Think about it, what armor traits are you using and for what end?

Impenetrable is top choice for PVP, Divine for maxing DPS, and Infused for those builds that need to max their resources. Well-fitted has a niche use for dedicated dodge rollers, but for me it's mostly a non-combat trait used for farming and crafting and running from a market stall to the next. Sturdy is important for tanks and many builds can benefit from having Reinforced gear, especially on their chest piece. Nirn is pretty bad and Training is pretty much pointless, so what's left? Invigorating. But what is it used for? Regen? Well if your regen is dependent on the paltry amount that Invigorating provides, it's time to re-think your build.

There are many ways you can cover regen for your build - passive abilities, gear sets, CPs, and food and drink buffs. And you can sacrifice some DPS by using a jewelry enchant for regen. And you can always just heavy attack a bit more. If you do, for what ever reason, need to run a regen mundus, then buffing it via Divine pieces is much more useful than using Invigorating pieces. But even in that scenario, you'd probably benefit more from running non-divine pieces of gear than trying to boost the regen you gain from said mundus.

I mean look at the numbers!

Is 238 Magicka regen worth the same as 238 spell damage? With 7 pieces Legendary Divines you buff those values to 363. Is 363 Spell damage worth the same as 363 Magicka recovery? I think not. Is Divine even the best trait to use on armor? Used to be, when people used it to buff crit rating, but that is now nerfed. And what traits are you using and for what end is an important thing to think about. For example in PVP - is the 125 extra regen you'd gain from Divine pieces more useful than the crit resitance you'd gain from 7 Impenetrable pieces? I think not.

And that is where the problem lies - using armor trait to boost your regen is already a sub-optimal route to take. Divine gives much better returns on buffing non-regen mundus stones, and the other traits give much better returns for non DPS players. Basing the math behind Invigorating on the amount Divine buffs a regen mundus makes the whole trait meaningless.

Buffing Invigorating, while retaining it's current function, would just mean that, for regen at least, it would become the top trait. Which, to be hones, is is not a bad idea actually. Divine would still be a better trait for those who use their mundus for DPS purposes, but for adding more regen to your build, a buffed Invigorating might become worth wearing.

I doubt that will happen though, since ZOS has moved the game towards much tighter regen budgets, and is emphasizing the importance of heavy attacking as a part of you rotation.

And that's the rub - Invigorating sucks, and I certainly would be much happier, if I still had my dedicated gold farming outfit with 7 pieces Prosperous, rather than this nonsense with Invigorating.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

By how much? Look at the math and it is quite good, if you think this trait need buffing then you have to thing divines with a regen mundas need it too.

This is where I get lost. Why has divines to be the best/ equally good as invigorating for regen? Divines is already better for dmg or whatever your mundus aims at? Why has it to be top tier for regen too? What would be the problem with slotting invig if you want great sustain and slapping on divines if you want more dmg stats, penetration, crit chance, crit dmg? You know, that whole "choices should matter" stuff.

I don't like this idea that it should all be equal, no matter if I slap an divines + regen mundus or invig. 11 regen... still decon stuff.