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ZOS has gone full Scarface
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Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »You know that you don't HAVE to buy the crates you know. They are optional.
That is not (nor has it ever been) the point. The point is that every new feature that has come to ESO recently has been designed with the sole purpose of shoving people to the store over and over. Its just insulting is all. Base game price, paid DLC, "chapters," ESO+, account services, cosmetics, mounts, $100 time-limited homes, crates, crate items that can't be bought with gems, etc. Where does it end? How many different ways do people need to pay in order to just have access to everything the game has to offer without being redirected back towards the store constantly?
Yeah- because it’s a good business model to give everything away for free.
I did not say that, nor have I ever. Don't misconstrue my argument. I was fine with paying for the core game, whatever DLC I wanted, cosmetics from the store occasionally, and had no problem with ESO+ and being charged for account services (even though that's more of a F2P model). But shoving the most desirable mounts into crates that, for the majority of the buyers, will cost more to obtain (by a huge margin) than if they were just put directly into the store, is astoundingly transparent as something that has no one but the shareholders in mind. It sure as hell isn't for our benefit that we have to gamble on some of the most desirable items in the game, cosmetic or not. All of this stuff could be reasonably priced, put in the store for direct purchase, without time limits on them (or rotations if we want the artificial scarcity that bad), but the new business model of major publishers is to push the goodwill of your customers and fleece as much money from them as you can, no matter how it damages the game, the company, and the industry in the long run.
no, you do not have to..... that is a choice you make, you are not forced to do it.
You're making the same semantic argument over and over.
FIne,
we have to gamble on some of the most desirable items in the game, cosmetic or not, if we wish to obtain said items.
yes... and that is a choice you make. you said it yourself 'if we wish to obtain said items'
no one is forcing that choice on you.
it is just pixels.
We're going in circles here. Its not about the choice or the pixels. Its about anti-consumer practices and my desire to call them exactly that. Its that simple. If something is scummy, I don't care if its something in which I can choose not to participate, I'm still going to call it scummy.
how is choice an anti-consumer practice?
Some people just live for the butthurt.
Or, some people think a F2P mobile trash business model in addition to a base game cost, expansions, subscription, paid DLC, and an extensive storefront is just a few steps too far. Hey, maybe I'm overreacting. Its not like publishers will continue to push the envelope until in-game power necessary for competitive play will be shoved into boxes like these? What's that, Battlefront 2 already did it? Its like some of you guys are laying on the tracks and still can't hear the train coming.
Or if you didn't have anything to complain about you'd have nothing to do. You P2W crowd are just looking for any reason to cry foul.Edited by Kodrac on March 8, 2018 5:19PM1 -
GiggleGoat✭✭✭✭Isn't the "scam-crates" horse dead yet? Yeah it's a crappy model, but this horse is paste0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »It's called promotion.
Nothing wrong with that.
Unless you thing Crown Crates should be illegal, in which case you could compare ZOS to drug dealers.
For the record, I don't think Crown Crates should be illegal. I do, however, absolutely believe that they are gambling, and should be regulated as such. What that practically means is full disclosure of drop rates. In the US, that is currently not required. Only thing I can do is call my congressman, which I of course have done, and act with my wallet, guilty of buying my share of crown crates. My short conversation with his staff made it pretty clear that they didnt even know something like this existed.
Now if someone could post a meme of Tony Montana fighting a Khajiit, we could get this thread back on track.
idk about the states, most of the news i see from there is concerned with more pressing matters, but in the uk the gambling commission is looking into the matter. crown crate style things that is, not tony monatana fighting a khajiit. this started in november last year so don't hold your breath.
Oh, I have said all along that it wont come from the US. Best bet is that we get smaller countries one by one that start requiring them to post drop rates. My guess is that they simply wont sell them in those countries until they become the majority, and even if they do, we cant be sure that they wouldnt modify the drop rates for said countries where they are forced to advertise, but it would be a start.2 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭The new mounts look cool don't they. You know you want one. I'm always excited to see folks riding around on the shiny new stuff in Rawl.
You know, I think the giving away a few crown crates each cycle to let people plausibly hide their gambling degeneracy is the only advice I have ever given ZOS that they have taken. It seems to be working pretty well. I have a statistically improbable number of people tell me that their shiny crown mounts came from free crates. I still love my friends even though they are probably all have a little trouble with the ponies. Don't worry, Pagruti will not tell your friends how much your really spent.
You know ZOS, I have some other suggestions that would make you some money as well. Some of them arn't even morally dubious.I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »You know that you don't HAVE to buy the crates you know. They are optional.
Not if you choose to play MMO's for role play or collecting which traditionally has always been obtainable by items in game as part of the game, not some ridiculous attempt to cheese customers out of money for no reason other than blatant greed.
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kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »You know that you don't HAVE to buy the crates you know. They are optional.
Not if you choose to play MMO's for role play or collecting which traditionally has always been obtainable by items in game as part of the game, not some ridiculous attempt to cheese customers out of money for no reason other than blatant greed.
I don't consider buying something outside the game as a part of collecting in the game. As far as I am concerned once I have all the homes I can get with gold in the game then I have collected all the homes.
I don't roll play but I would like to think if I did I wouldn't base my character around something I personally don't want to acquire. I suppose my character could develop a sense of jealousy hang out in Cyrodiil and gank every player riding a wolf for no reason other than they are riding a wolf. Then the character could go back to the tavern and brag about giving those uppity wolf riders a lesson.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »You know that you don't HAVE to buy the crates you know. They are optional.
Not if you choose to play MMO's for role play or collecting which traditionally has always been obtainable by items in game as part of the game, not some ridiculous attempt to cheese customers out of money for no reason other than blatant greed.
I don't consider buying something outside the game as a part of collecting in the game. As far as I am concerned once I have all the homes I can get with gold in the game then I have collected all the homes.
I don't roll play but I would like to think if I did I wouldn't base my character around something I personally don't want to acquire. I suppose my character could develop a sense of jealousy hang out in Cyrodiil and gank every player riding a wolf for no reason other than they are riding a wolf. Then the character could go back to the tavern and brag about giving those uppity wolf riders a lesson.
I could see some logic in your argument, but when the devs have come out and adamantly said that there would be no mounts offered in game outside of the four horses, its clear to me they have no intent on offering the typical things we would expect in an MMORPG for the price of the game and or sub which traditionally do as per industry standards.
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MadLarkin✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »You know that you don't HAVE to buy the crates you know. They are optional.
That is not (nor has it ever been) the point. The point is that every new feature that has come to ESO recently has been designed with the sole purpose of shoving people to the store over and over. Its just insulting is all. Base game price, paid DLC, "chapters," ESO+, account services, cosmetics, mounts, $100 time-limited homes, crates, crate items that can't be bought with gems, etc. Where does it end? How many different ways do people need to pay in order to just have access to everything the game has to offer without being redirected back towards the store constantly?
Yeah- because it’s a good business model to give everything away for free.
I did not say that, nor have I ever. Don't misconstrue my argument. I was fine with paying for the core game, whatever DLC I wanted, cosmetics from the store occasionally, and had no problem with ESO+ and being charged for account services (even though that's more of a F2P model). But shoving the most desirable mounts into crates that, for the majority of the buyers, will cost more to obtain (by a huge margin) than if they were just put directly into the store, is astoundingly transparent as something that has no one but the shareholders in mind. It sure as hell isn't for our benefit that we have to gamble on some of the most desirable items in the game, cosmetic or not. All of this stuff could be reasonably priced, put in the store for direct purchase, without time limits on them (or rotations if we want the artificial scarcity that bad), but the new business model of major publishers is to push the goodwill of your customers and fleece as much money from them as you can, no matter how it damages the game, the company, and the industry in the long run.
no, you do not have to..... that is a choice you make, you are not forced to do it.
You're making the same semantic argument over and over.
FIne,
we have to gamble on some of the most desirable items in the game, cosmetic or not, if we wish to obtain said items.
yes... and that is a choice you make. you said it yourself 'if we wish to obtain said items'
no one is forcing that choice on you.
it is just pixels.
We're going in circles here. Its not about the choice or the pixels. Its about anti-consumer practices and my desire to call them exactly that. Its that simple. If something is scummy, I don't care if its something in which I can choose not to participate, I'm still going to call it scummy.
how is choice an anti-consumer practice?
Some people just live for the butthurt.
Or, some people think a F2P mobile trash business model in addition to a base game cost, expansions, subscription, paid DLC, and an extensive storefront is just a few steps too far. Hey, maybe I'm overreacting. Its not like publishers will continue to push the envelope until in-game power necessary for competitive play will be shoved into boxes like these? What's that, Battlefront 2 already did it? Its like some of you guys are laying on the tracks and still can't hear the train coming.
Or if you didn't have anything to complain about you'd have nothing to do. You P2W crowd are just looking for any reason to cry foul.
Swing and a miss on your generalizations there friend. I do plenty with many games that have what I believe to be profitable yet consumer-friendly business models. I'm just sincerely disappointed that ESO isn't one of them. Nothing in ESO's store is P2W, not yet at least. You don't think its been mentioned someplace in a meeting? They've already gotten away with putting in the gambling crates, introducing $100+ time limited homes (lol), quietly changing the language of the ESO+ memberships so that they would not have access to chapters, thereby forcing people that want access to all of the game's non-cosmetic content to triple-dip (core game, chapters, DLC/ESO+).
Battlefront 2 WAS P2W, with loot crates. You could literally pay money to have an immediate advantage over other people. So you're damn right I'm going to be wary about how other games evolve their business models. And the thing is, so many games do it right. Its not that hard.
Path of Exile: Entirely free to play with cosmetic and stash space MT's. They push out large and frequent content updates.
Warframe: Free to play with cosmetic and stash space MT's, along with "pay to rush." Premium currency is trade-able.
Titanfall 2: Base game cost with free content and cosmetic MT's that tell you what you're going to get. No gambling.
I'm not even 100% against cosmetic random crates. The Division has them and they don't bother me because I can earn keys through gameplay. But crates that require you to pay real money, are likely to give you unwanted items or duplicates, and now, with ESO, having items that cannot be purchased with the secondary currency you earn from spending hundreds of dollars on the crates. It's just...too much.
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Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Edit: Talking about misinformation. You repeated the same tired, untrue claim that I want "everything for free." Not true. Not even close. I just want to know what my money is going to get me. That's how fair, honest businesses work.
i didnt actually say that if you bother to read what i wrote.0 -
klowdy1✭✭✭✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »You know that you don't HAVE to buy the crates you know. They are optional.
That is not (nor has it ever been) the point. The point is that every new feature that has come to ESO recently has been designed with the sole purpose of shoving people to the store over and over. Its just insulting is all. Base game price, paid DLC, "chapters," ESO+, account services, cosmetics, mounts, $100 time-limited homes, crates, crate items that can't be bought with gems, etc. Where does it end? How many different ways do people need to pay in order to just have access to everything the game has to offer without being redirected back towards the store constantly?
Have you ever been to Disneyland? Ever bought anything there? This game is a theme park MMO, and a buy to play one. Let's take all money from ZOS and see where the game goes.0 -
Eddyble✭✭✭✭Just noticed, this event is taking place at the same time as the TERA open beta. Hmmmmm.Eddyb1e - Xbox One - NA
Eddyble - PC - NA0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »From their website:
If you want a taste of the shadowy powers the new Crown Crate season has to offer, you can earn up to three free Scalecaller Crown Crates simply by playing The Elder Scrolls Online! To acquire these new items, log into the game and defeat any enemy creature (monsters, bosses, or even enemy NPCs) every day, from Friday, March 9 until Sunday, March 11.
This is drug dealer speech. The first one is always free. That is all...
Thats almost all business
Sales. BOGO. Etc0 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
*operating strictly in Nevada and select Indian reservations only under penalty of lawEdited by Drakkdjinn on March 10, 2018 2:05AM2 -
Mz_Jo✭✭✭WAIT 1 SECOND, TIME OUT
As far as progressing in the game.
I bought a base game.
Just like ANYTHING ELSE IN GAMING
When it's time to upgrade
YOU PAY FOR IT
I always ask people who make these complaints,
Those servers WE use, well the building they sit in has to be PAID FOR,
Those servers need electricity and air conditioning!
That has to get PAID FOR!
I just thought I'd point this out because our initial game purchases are NOT going to keep PROGRESSION IN OUR GAME.
IT really is the bottom line!
Pay or don't. Nothing illegal is happening.
If it's such a hardship, my best suggestion is to try a new game.
This game is going to keep growing and its going to keep costing people who WANT TO UPGRADE more money.
That's how business works, buck up and welcome to reality.
NOBODY said it was pretty.
Was PS4pro - 4k @ Launch / 2022 Xbox X started all over!
/ DC only / PVE, PvP, All Crafting, Housing
Vampires Rule
Fav Weapon - Blade of Woe and Thief of everything!
ESO Live Watcher, Patch Note Reader, Console Launch0 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Really, I don’t know why ZOS just doesn’t put the crate items on the Crown store itself. There are some nice things in some of the crates and if they were offered directly, I would probably buy them. However, I will NOT be buying crates anymore. My RNG sucks so it does me no good to purchase the crates as I usually just get crap.0 -
Mz_Jo✭✭✭As for the
FLUFF
IN THE CROWN STORE and crates
It is JUST FLUFF
Consider yourselves lucky you get a chance for a couple of FREE ones. ZOS doesn't have to do it. Spin it how you like.
If you think it's unfair go to the BBB and good luck with that.
The continued posts everytime we get new crates or DLC or Chapter, people cry unfair.
Was PS4pro - 4k @ Launch / 2022 Xbox X started all over!
/ DC only / PVE, PvP, All Crafting, Housing
Vampires Rule
Fav Weapon - Blade of Woe and Thief of everything!
ESO Live Watcher, Patch Note Reader, Console Launch1 -
Mz_Jo✭✭✭Really, I don’t know why ZOS just doesn’t put the crate items on the Crown store itself. There are some nice things in some of the crates and if they were offered directly, I would probably buy them. However, I will NOT be buying crates anymore. My RNG sucks so it does me no good to purchase the crates as I usually just get crap.
It would be easier for some, I agree.
They make good money with the crates. At least from what I can tell from people I know.
Businesses have to cover every angle that's how it works.
This is a business. We "Play a Game" but behind the scenes the ovhead alone I'm sure is quite a bit.
Was PS4pro - 4k @ Launch / 2022 Xbox X started all over!
/ DC only / PVE, PvP, All Crafting, Housing
Vampires Rule
Fav Weapon - Blade of Woe and Thief of everything!
ESO Live Watcher, Patch Note Reader, Console Launch0 -
monktoasty✭✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »You know that you don't HAVE to buy the crates you know. They are optional.
That is not (nor has it ever been) the point. The point is that every new feature that has come to ESO recently has been designed with the sole purpose of shoving people to the store over and over. Its just insulting is all. Base game price, paid DLC, "chapters," ESO+, account services, cosmetics, mounts, $100 time-limited homes, crates, crate items that can't be bought with gems, etc. Where does it end? How many different ways do people need to pay in order to just have access to everything the game has to offer without being redirected back towards the store constantly?
Yeah- because it’s a good business model to give everything away for free.
Yea look at all the money games didn't make before loot boxes0
