Noob'ish question (I know)

Pr0jectseph · March 2018

...But if I want to roll a Stamina DK or Templar, does that relegate me to ONLY using the stamina-scaling abilities?

For example, I looked at Earthen heart DK's and it seems that their only stamina scaling abilities are for Ardent Flame.

Can someone enlighten me as to why there are SO many more magicka-based abilities? Are they unused by Stamina variants?

Thanking you!

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2018

You can still use magicka abilities for utility, e.g. buffs, CC etc., offensive wise you would choose stam scaling skills over mag scaling skills.

That there are more mag abilities in the class trees is a relict from the past, where the design was to have mag classes using class skills and stam classes going for weapon skills. If you ask me, that was stupid and still is. Some stam classes barely have any offense from their class pool, also like stam sorcs. But don't get this wrong, it doesn't mean that they pull low numbers, it just feels a bit bland.

raj72616a · March 2018

if you dps, yes you mostly use stam skills
if you tank however, a lot of magicka skills are great even for stamina tank.
like, extended ritual, restoring focus.

starkerealm · March 2018

I can't tell you with Stamplars, but I can tell you that with other classes some magicka abilities do get used. For example: Stam Wardens will use Bird of Prey for the movement and damage buff, StamSorcs use Crit Surge for the damage and heal (though, nobody really thinks about the heal normally), Stam Knights have Igneous Weapons which boosts their damage, but is still a magicka ability.

The only thing like that for Templars, that I can think of, is Repentance. As far as I can remember, they don't have any abilities that provide useful buffs, the way the other classes do, that end up in their rotations. That said, a lot of the Templar abilities morph to stamina. It's kinda weird going down the list and realizing just how many offensive options a Stamplar has.

newtinmpls · March 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

That there are more mag abilities in the class trees is a relict from the past, where the design was to have mag classes using class skills and stam classes going for weapon skills..

Back in the day when hybrid builds could work and there were softcaps....

I miss those days

Thannazzar · March 2018

Ah soft caps and diminishing returns.... we miss you.

smacky · March 2018

Unfortunately the way the game is deigned, the real answer is yes.

The truth is far more complicated. You stam abilities are based off max stam, as are magicka abilities off max magicka.

Essentially, making you choose between one or the other, instead of allowing for a balanced build.
Any magicka abilities you use unless they are only time based, will be too weak to be worth using. Magelight is a time based one that doesn't rely on max magicka for example.

Asardes · March 2018

You will be able to use the magicka abilities, but for utility, not for damage, since that scales on Maximum Magicka and Spell Damage and benefits from Spell Critical if the ability can crit. Ultimates scale on whichever is higher, so you can make good use of ultimates that do magic or elemental damage even on stamina builds, for example Standard of Might on Stamina DK. Also, Flames of Oblivion, though it's not an ultimate, follows the same damage scaling rule, but it's the only non-ultimate skill in the game that does this. Class passives usually benefit both stamina and magicka builds.

Hallothiel · March 2018

Because the game design is particularly rubbish in this area. Yes you can level a dw mage but it won't work when getting to more endgame stuff due to resource management & what stats damage is measured off. You will have to chose either magic or stam at some point.

(This is what I have found & been told by guildies. And it is the one major issue I have with the game. Dont care about jewellery crafting or spells or lag - but would love to be able to create a decent hybrid.)

VaranisArano · March 2018

Because when the classes were designed, ZOS expected everyone to use magicka. Warden is the first class actually designed for the magical/stamina meta, and it shows.

starkerealm · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because when the classes were designed, ZOS expected everyone to use magicka. Warden is the first class actually designed for the magical/stamina meta, and it shows.

That's not quite true.

Originally, there was a soft cap system, where stats would become overcharged and suffer diminishing returns at various points.

This meant that hybrid builds were strongly encouraged. In fact, it was pretty easy to hit the magicka cap, meaning you'd then have to choose between boosting survival or stamina at that point. A lot of abilities were designed around the idea that you'd be using both, and hybrids were the norm, for awhile.

Unfortunately, that all went out the window when the Champion Point system was introduced. Soft caps were removed so that players wouldn't feel like their CP were being wasted... which, okay, cool, whatever, but that also had the effect of killing hybrids completely. If you could pour all your points into one attribute, then there was no reason to diversify, and no value from having a more balanced build.

starkerealm · March 2018

In fact, this is what overcharged stats looked like:

C643615F39BBB142A0FD60B9E7BE0C96A181CAE3

See the ones in Orange? Those were over the soft cap.

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because when the classes were designed, ZOS expected everyone to use magicka. Warden is the first class actually designed for the magical/stamina meta, and it shows.

That's not quite true.

Originally, there was a soft cap system, where stats would become overcharged and suffer diminishing returns at various points.

This meant that hybrid builds were strongly encouraged. In fact, it was pretty easy to hit the magicka cap, meaning you'd then have to choose between boosting survival or stamina at that point. A lot of abilities were designed around the idea that you'd be using both, and hybrids were the norm, for awhile.

Unfortunately, that all went out the window when the Champion Point system was introduced. Soft caps were removed so that players wouldn't feel like their CP were being wasted... which, okay, cool, whatever, but that also had the effect of killing hybrids completely. If you could pour all your points into one attribute, then there was no reason to diversify, and no value from having a more balanced build.

Sounds like a really nice concept. Too bad it isn't like that anymore.

White wabbit · March 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

I can't tell you with Stamplars, but I can tell you that with other classes some magicka abilities do get used. For example: Stam Wardens will use Bird of Prey for the movement and damage buff, StamSorcs use Crit Surge for the damage and heal (though, nobody really thinks about the heal normally), Stam Knights have Igneous Weapons which boosts their damage, but is still a magicka ability.

The only thing like that for Templars, that I can think of, is Repentance. As far as I can remember, they don't have any abilities that provide useful buffs, the way the other classes do, that end up in their rotations. That said, a lot of the Templar abilities morph to stamina. It's kinda weird going down the list and realizing just how many offensive options a Stamplar has.

Stamplar can you one of the best magical skills in PvP Purge

SydneyGrey · March 2018

As others said, you can use magicka skills on a stamina character, but they will be weaker, since their damage scales off of your maximum magicka.