Categorizing snares as Major/Minor debuffs

JXNwarrior · March 2018

Hello all,

Snares have always been a part of ESO but in the recent few patches they have become more apparent and annoying (at least that I've noticed). It seems that more than half of the offensive abilities in the game now have snares and they are often 50% or greater. This has caused many people (including myself) to always run either Forward Momentum or Shuffle on a stamina char to avoid being permanently snared (most often by 70%). It has even gotten to the point where I felt the need to run Forward Momentum on a magicka character (Warden) so that I have a chance against snare spam in open world and solo PvP. This is mainly a PvP issue but it applies to solo PvE as well.

There has been a couple minor improvements such as reducing the duration of the snare on Heroic Slash but I believe there is a better option to go. All (or almost all?) other debuffs in the game are categorized as "Major" and "Minor" and are counterparts to specific buffs. Example: Major Defile 30% counter to Major Mending 25%, and Minor Defile 15% counter to Minor Mending 8%.

My thought is that all snares should be categorized similarly to balance and fall in line with other buffs/debuffs. Something like a "Major/Minor Hinderance" that reduces movement speed by 40% and 20% respectively, names and percentages negotiable. This would balance it to be a proper counter to Major/Minor Expedition which are 30% and 10% respectively.

Share your thoughts below on if you think this should be implemented and what your names and percentages would be. Thanks.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Problem is there are certain abilities which snare for more than your suggested limit (cinder storm/eruption, veil of blades/bolstering darkness, solar disturbance, etc. all snare for 60-70%)

I do agree that snares should be more defined and not stack independently, snares are far too prevalent in the game, both in pve and pvp. I absolutely hate doing dungeons where every mob and their mother snares you constantly, so you're crawling through the place like a snail on a salt bed.

IMO:
Major Hindrance: 70% reduced movement speed. All abilities that snare for more than 50% get changed to this.
Minor Hindrance: 30% reduced movement speed. All abilities that snare for less than 50% get changed to this.

Good idea otherwise though.

JXNwarrior · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Problem is there are certain abilities which snare for more than your suggested limit (cinder storm/eruption, veil of blades/bolstering darkness, solar disturbance, etc. all snare for 60-70%)

I do agree that snares should be more defined and not stack independently, snares are far too prevalent in the game, both in pve and pvp. I absolutely hate doing dungeons where every mob and their mother snares you constantly, so you're crawling through the place like a snail on a salt bed.

IMO:
Major Hindrance: 70% reduced movement speed. All abilities that snare for more than 50% get changed to this.
Minor Hindrance: 30% reduced movement speed. All abilities that snare for less than 50% get changed to this.

Good idea otherwise though.

The only problem with those numbers is that Major and Minor buffs stack. In your suggestion the stack would become 100% which is essentially a root. IMO the stack should be equal to or less than 70%, otherwise it's essentially just a root that persists through dodge roll.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

I would assume multiplicative effects, not additive. 30%+70% in that case is a 79% snare regardless of which order they're applied in.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

This really should be a thing.

Leandor · March 2018

Actually, there is no need for a "commonalization" of snares. Anything more than 30% snare is a death sentence if you don't have access to forward momentum or shuffle. There isn't even a potion that helps.

The most logical way would be to provide a "snare cleanse" for magicka based characters, e.g. within the mages guild line. And don't go calling purge. With the amount of debuffs in the game, expect to purge 3 to 5 times until you get rid of the snare and no magicka pool can sustain that, let alone having the time for 5 gcds to clean the snare.

Worst offender by far is permafrost.

No, it needs a dedicated magicka skill that provides the same benefit as shuffle/forward momentum.

ak_pvp · March 2018

10 and 30. Exact counterparts to expedition. Things like eruption can do both. But max 40%

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

10 and 30. Exact counterparts to expedition. Things like eruption can do both. But max 40%

but than having expedition buffs would make you literally immune to snares, whats the point of snares if people are gonna ignore them anyways? with FM/shuffle, people at least pay a stamina cost to be mobile.

Minno · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I would assume multiplicative effects, not additive. 30%+70% in that case is a 79% snare regardless of which order they're applied in.

how do we handle gap closer snare?

JXNwarrior · March 2018

Minno wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I would assume multiplicative effects, not additive. 30%+70% in that case is a 79% snare regardless of which order they're applied in.

how do we handle gap closer snare?

The snare that I think you are referring to isn't actually an intended snare. It's the travel lag(?) that occurs when using a gap closer. Even when using a gap closer that doesn't snare (Crit Rush morph of Crit Charge) your character slows down to connect with the closing enemy. That is an entirely separate issue that ZoS has tried to mend in the past.

If you are talking about snaring gap closers such as Stampede and Lotus Fan, then imo a Minor Snare debuff of around 20ish% should be applied. IMO Major Snare debuffs should not come from gap closers and be capped at 40ish%.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

10 and 30. Exact counterparts to expedition. Things like eruption can do both. But max 40%

but than having expedition buffs would make you literally immune to snares, whats the point of snares if people are gonna ignore them anyways? with FM/shuffle, people at least pay a stamina cost to be mobile.

Well, not really. Because then extra speed. And not everyone even has expedition, only stamsorc has the extra 10% reliably, and mag/tanker builds may forgo speed pots for something like lingering/tri pots so snare removal will still be necessary.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

10 and 30. Exact counterparts to expedition. Things like eruption can do both. But max 40%

but than having expedition buffs would make you literally immune to snares, whats the point of snares if people are gonna ignore them anyways? with FM/shuffle, people at least pay a stamina cost to be mobile.

Well, not really. Because then extra speed. And not everyone even has expedition, only stamsorc has the extra 10% reliably, and mag/tanker builds may forgo speed pots for something like lingering/tri pots so snare removal will still be necessary.

To be honest without snares stamina will be completely out of control, and no, I wouldn't even touch FM or shuffle if snares were %10 and %30. I'm playing an orc here, I would probably still outrun you even with that tiny snares. thats how meaningless a %10 snare would be.

Stamina would be basically untouchable without snares in place, and this whole snare-snare immunity thing creates some sort of balance, Its the cost of mobility.

%30 is basically the snare from DK skill line, and let me tell you its not really a very effective snare, next time you're in game ask one of your medium armor friends to test it out, you will see for yourself.

Silver_Strider · March 2018

25% Minor
45% Major.

It's a nerf to most snares but at this point, either snares need this nerf or there needs to be much more snare removal/immunity granting methods added to the game.

Aedaryl · March 2018

Make snare immunity availble to everyone.

ZoS need to give something to magicka sorc : a snare removal or a snare, sorc has nothing that's snare related - Streak isn't a good way to have in fight mobility, hello expensive cost. Being snare and immobilise to hell hurt a lot a class suposed to be mobile and ranged.

CrazyCleatus · March 2018

If it were up to me, I’d try to make snares/immobilizations have diminishing returns in pvp.

First snare is full duration/full effect, second snare is half duration/half effect, and then third snare is halved again (so basically useless), and leaves target immune to further snares and immobilizations for 5 seconds... And maybe make it so you have to wait 5 seconds between each snare to cast another one without diminishing returns.

This way, people have to actually use their snares with proper timing instead of just spamming them with no penalty.

Edit: Abilities that damage and snare wouldn’t have their damage affected by diminishing returns, just the snare part.