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Honestly, just give PVEers Vigor and Caltrops
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Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?
Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.
The extra duration of anti-cavalry caltrops is in some situations better than razor caltrops. But the difference is so small it´s barely noticeable in PvE content anway.
Yeah, so what we're really saying is that you'll never face a situation where you need to dismount mounted enemies in PVE, whereas I might need to dismount mounted enemies while defending a scroll, chasing a scroll, defending a keep, etc. in PVP.
Its a skill that's primarily intended for a situation you'll only ever face in PVP, but like most of the good skills in the game, it is applicable to more than one situation including PVE.
But what you fail to understand is that you are only focusing on one use for it when it has far far more uses than just to knock me off a horse. In fact that is only a tiny sliver of the skills usefulness. It has far more use as a CC and DD than it does as a dismount.0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is the first I've heard of Caltrops being primarily a dismounting utility.0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd happily trade PvE access to Vigor and Caltrops for AP purchasing of all Bind-on-Pickup dungeon gear.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?
Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.
The extra duration of anti-cavalry caltrops is in some situations better than razor caltrops. But the difference is so small it´s barely noticeable in PvE content anway.
Yeah, so what we're really saying is that you'll never face a situation where you need to dismount mounted enemies in PVE, whereas I might need to dismount mounted enemies while defending a scroll, chasing a scroll, defending a keep, etc. in PVP.
Its a skill that's primarily intended for a situation you'll only ever face in PVP, but like most of the good skills in the game, it is applicable to more than one situation including PVE.
But what you fail to understand is that you are only focusing on one use for it when it has far far more uses than just to knock me off a horse. In fact that is only a tiny sliver of the skills usefulness. It has far more use as a CC and DD than it does as a dismount.
Did I not say that when I said "Its a skill that's primarily intended for a situation you'll only ever face in PVP, but like most of the good skills in the game, it is applicable to more than one situation including PVE."?
At this point, I think we're arguing over the word primarily and agreeing on nearly everything else. In case I'm not being clear however, I think Caltrops is a PVP skill designed for the only content in the game where players possibly face mounted enemies. However, like any really good skill in ESO, it has a lot of utility in other areas of the game including PVE, especially as a CC, a slow, and a DOT.
I don't think it should be handed to PVE players through PVE content even though it does have a lot of utility in PVE because it is a PVP skill designed for the only content in the game where players possibly face mounted enemies. When that changes, I'll be right there in line to argue that PVE players should have access to Caltrops through PVE content.0 -
Pijng✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?
Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.
The extra duration of anti-cavalry caltrops is in some situations better than razor caltrops. But the difference is so small it´s barely noticeable in PvE content anway.
Yeah, so what we're really saying is that you'll never face a situation where you need to dismount mounted enemies in PVE, whereas I might need to dismount mounted enemies while defending a scroll, chasing a scroll, defending a keep, etc. in PVP.
Its a skill that's primarily intended for a situation you'll only ever face in PVP, but like most of the good skills in the game, it is applicable to more than one situation including PVE.
But what you fail to understand is that you are only focusing on one use for it when it has far far more uses than just to knock me off a horse. In fact that is only a tiny sliver of the skills usefulness. It has far more use as a CC and DD than it does as a dismount.
He didnt mean that caltrops have to be used only in PvP, he meant that this skill has a pvp based design, thats why there shouldnt be an opportunity to open it via PvE.
He has a bit confusing manner of dialogue – but I typed the main point in the above.0 -
TheRealPotoroo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bfish22090 wrote: »Seriously, just give pvpers undaunted 9
Everybody should have access to what they need in their preferred mode but that will never happen.PC NA, PC EU
"Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_68505230 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sandman929 wrote: »I'd happily trade PvE access to Vigor and Caltrops for AP purchasing of all Bind-on-Pickup dungeon gear.
No reason they can't balance out the time it would take for someone to PVE it to the time it would take to get the AP.
That said, PVP in this game is basically an AP grind machine already, this would make it worse.0 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I don't think it should be handed to PVE players through PVE content even though it does have a lot of utility in PVE because it is a PVP skill designed for the only content in the game where players possibly face mounted enemies. When that changes, I'll be right there in line to argue that PVE players should have access to Caltrops through PVE content.
i dont think there should be shortcuts to skills. I enjoy pvp in general but hate eso pvp even after no cp( which was an improvement). i still endure pvp for the alliance ranks and skill points and for the skill line. I have to make a choice. Do i want this skill and these skill points bad enough to endure something i dont want to do? yes. i shouldnt be given stuff just because i want it, nor should i be able to take a short cut to get there. everyone should have to earn the same things the same way. no special treatment.
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Sagz✭✭Well, for starters I did not bother to read all the other posts, just some so let me say this....No.
You can zerg surf 1 night and get both vigor and caltrops easily, which is more than I can say for Undaunted level 9, so just think of it as the PvP player having to do dailies.
Not to mention having to wait for the Golden Vendor to get some equipment, which if you haven't noticed is a nightmare to get the gear you want. Not to mention the BOP gear drops from dungeons, Just imagine if you only could get the gear from PvP by doing PvP instead of buying from a guild trader, which is more than I can say for the PvP player.
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Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭As I already said - you need a viable heal on stam for PVE --> that is usually vigor. And this is mainly for not that experienced players which are probably most of the players in this game.
So therefore it's strange that you have to play pvp to get a necessary heal for your stam character to play decent pve.
All your contra arguments is end game stuff only and not really needed (undaunted passives, vdsa weapons...) but for new players on stam, vigor is pretty needed.
So I can follow new people beeing annoyed that they are forced to play pvp to play pve content.0 -
Pijng✭✭✭As I already said - you need a viable heal on stam for PVE --> that is usually vigor. And this is mainly for not that experienced players which are probably most of the players in this game.
So therefore it's strange that you have to play pvp to get a necessary heal for your stam character to play decent pve.
All your contra arguments is end game stuff only and not really needed (undaunted passives, vdsa weapons...) but for new players on stam, vigor is pretty needed.
So I can follow new people beeing annoyed that they are forced to play pvp to play pve content.
With the current amount of APs that you can earn in BGs right now – this is extremely fast and easy to open Vigor. Yes, not all players have Morro update, ok. Still they can spend 1 day joining the zerg surf in Cyro + you have quests that gives you a decent AP – and just open that poor Vigor in a few hours. Even this way is super fast and easy.
As long as you're "forced" to play pvp for vigor (which will take not so much time) – I'm forced to play pve to lvlup, because amount of exp in pvp is far far less than in pve (until you're solo bombing big groups lol).
I just really dont get it – whats the problem behind it? Just a simple aversion to PvP? Sounds silly. If you'd guys really wanted to lvlup a good toon – then you would overcome any obstacles no matter what. But at this case it looks like you just dont want to do something different from killing stupid AI.
I'm sure you're not new and you only talking about new players in ESO, then lines in the above goes to " a third party". Eh.0 -
Haquor✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?
Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.
Getting vigor and caltops is easy. Don it onall 14 characters and i dont ***. Because i mostly pvp anyway but your post is bad.
So your logic is that in pvp you fight mounted enemy and that is your use for caltrops... righto mate. Its not used against mounted zergs specifically. Because mounted zergs attacking just done exist. Its used for aoe slow for all enemy and dot damge to proc effects nd pull from stealth.
And you think that vigor serves no purpose for stamina pve players except vma? You take damage, you need heals. Regardless of the source. Plenty of players around in pvp to heal you so why do you need vigor in cyrodil?0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭lets be fair, it takes you max 2-3 evenings in cyro to have that
how much longer must PvPers grind PVE content to get all the abilities and skills needed to play effectivly??
much, much longer!
or should they get all that for free too????0 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Yes - I'm not speaking about myself, but I can follow beginners beeing annoyed.
Its just nicer playing a little bit of pve content to get your character up for playing pvp, than beeing slaughtered for ours in pvp although you just want to have a necessary skill that is needed for you to enjoy pve content.
Anyway, as I already mentioned - if you are new to the game and you want these skills, equip a resto staff with rapid regen and heal big fights. That's the fastet method.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?
Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.
Getting vigor and caltops is easy. Don it onall 14 characters and i dont ***. Because i mostly pvp anyway but your post is bad.
So your logic is that in pvp you fight mounted enemy and that is your use for caltrops... righto mate. Its not used against mounted zergs specifically. Because mounted zergs attacking just done exist. Its used for aoe slow for all enemy and dot damge to proc effects nd pull from stealth.
And you think that vigor serves no purpose for stamina pve players except vma? You take damage, you need heals. Regardless of the source. Plenty of players around in pvp to heal you so why do you need vigor in cyrodil?
I...reading this, I suspect you don't do much PVP away from the emperor ring. That's not an insult, its just that:
(A) Have you ever protected a scroll runner? Mounted zergs, or at least mounted pursuers, are a thing.
(B) Solo PVPers are often without healers. Small group PVPers are not forced to have a magicka healer in their group. The whole definition of a 1v1 or a 1vX is that there isn't a pocket healer around.
Take a stamina character away from the emp ring and you might just find situations where Vigor and Caltrops are necessary. Both of those are useful in PVE without a doubt, but neither are necessary (with the exception of Vigor for VMA stam players.)0