Honestly, just give PVEers Vigor and Caltrops

CapuchinSeven · March 2018

Up to my third game now where someone has very literally said something along the lines of "hi I'm just here to grind vigor and caltrops, what do I do?"

VaranisArano · March 2018

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

CapuchinSeven · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

VaranisArano · March 2018

Also, with the increased AP, battlegrounds is now the most efficient way for everyone to grind AP. Its a brilliant way for ZOS to encourage more players to try out BGs. And its no different than "I'm just here for Star-Made Knight, what do I do?"

VaranisArano · March 2018

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

I know those two skills are useful and required by the PVE meta. My point is that Vigor and Caltrops are both PVP skills primarily. Caltrops is specifically against mounted enemies, which you fight only in PVP. Vigor is primarily useful for stam self-heals, which you need in PVP and VMA because that's the only content where you can expect to not have a healer.

Anotherone773 · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

I know those two skills are useful and required by the PVE meta. My point is that Vigor and Caltrops are both PVP skills primarily. Caltrops is specifically against mounted enemies, which you fight only in PVP. Vigor is primarily useful for stam self-heals, which you need in PVP and VMA because that's the only content where you can expect to not have a healer.

By this logic you should not use any skills or gear acquired through pve in pvp. Those are pve skills and gear and used for pve, thus you should stick to pvp based skills and gear. Also, neither skill says for PVP, nor does caltrops say ANYTHING about for mounts. You are just assuming that is its intended purpose. So you are making a false assumption.

You realize most of pve content is solo while most of pvp content is group?

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Up to my third game now where someone has very literally said something along the lines of "hi I'm just here to grind vigor and caltrops, what do I do?"

Tell them to read books and join BGs. I actually started my alliance war skill lines by reading books and probably have 3 or 4 levels in each from books. The rest of my AW skills i got from doing BGs. If only people wouldnt blow through the games content they would learn so much, literally.

Biro123 · March 2018

Most PvP is group?

One of the main reasons I play this game is that PVP does NOT require a group. At all.

I find the opposite - with most endgame PVE content requiring a group, which is why I hate the undaunted grind.

Anotherone773 · March 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Most PvP is group?

One of the main reasons I play this game is that PVP does NOT require a group. At all.

I find the opposite - with most endgame PVE content requiring a group, which is why I hate the undaunted grind.

Alliance war -group content
Battlegrounds - group content

If you choose to do group content solo, that doesnt make it solo content. Just means you choose to do it solo. Same as if i solo group dungeons.

I mean if you roam around and gank players fishing, collecting shards, and doing pve in content in cyrodil, i guess you could consider that to loosely be solo content. Though i dont see ganking pvers really as pvp. Pretty much all games that have pvp allow for the ability to gank pvers in some areas and most are far better at pvp than ESO.

VaranisArano · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

I know those two skills are useful and required by the PVE meta. My point is that Vigor and Caltrops are both PVP skills primarily. Caltrops is specifically against mounted enemies, which you fight only in PVP. Vigor is primarily useful for stam self-heals, which you need in PVP and VMA because that's the only content where you can expect to not have a healer.

By this logic you should not use any skills or gear acquired through pve in pvp. Those are pve skills and gear and used for pve, thus you should stick to pvp based skills and gear. Also, neither skill says for PVP, nor does caltrops say ANYTHING about for mounts. You are just assuming that is its intended purpose. So you are making a false assumption.

You realize most of pve content is solo while most of pvp content is group?

I'm saying that I oppose giving PVE players a PVE path to Caltrops because Caltrops is specifically designed for a situation you only face in PVP. I have no problems with PVE players using it, but they do not use it for the intended anti-cavalry purpose, unlike how it can be used in PVP.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Sure tbh. Give PvP better access to monster/PvE sets though vendor, and undaunted leveled.

Not even sarcasm. They are just tedious after one char.

Anotherone773 · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

I know those two skills are useful and required by the PVE meta. My point is that Vigor and Caltrops are both PVP skills primarily. Caltrops is specifically against mounted enemies, which you fight only in PVP. Vigor is primarily useful for stam self-heals, which you need in PVP and VMA because that's the only content where you can expect to not have a healer.

By this logic you should not use any skills or gear acquired through pve in pvp. Those are pve skills and gear and used for pve, thus you should stick to pvp based skills and gear. Also, neither skill says for PVP, nor does caltrops say ANYTHING about for mounts. You are just assuming that is its intended purpose. So you are making a false assumption.

You realize most of pve content is solo while most of pvp content is group?

I'm saying that I oppose giving PVE players a PVE path to Caltrops because Caltrops is specifically designed for a situation you only face in PVP. I have no problems with PVE players using it, but they do not use it for the intended anti-cavalry purpose, unlike how it can be used in PVP.

There is nothing in the description of that skill that says its for anti Calvary purposes. However, i agree with the premise if you want to use a pvp skill as someone who pves only then you will just have to suck it up and do pvp to earn that skill and vice versa.

Its irrelevant what you want the skill for, everyone should have to earn it the same way.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2018

Honestly, why don't they just give me Undaunted 9 automatically...

C'mon, it'd make things soooooo easy.

Waffennacht · March 2018

Imagine if it still requires the original AP to unlock... Boy people would explode

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Imagine if it still requires the original AP to unlock... Boy people would explode

No kidding. I have a character that I leveled up in pvp from 10-50 when the game released. That same character was out fighting in Cyrodiil over and over. Sure I switched it up some times but I was fairly focused for a long time. When the Warden was released I made a MagDen and a StamDen. They were both played exclusively in Cyrodiil. Both of them exceeded this old character that had extensive play time in PvP Rank. PvP leveling is super easy nowadays. By comparison Undaunted is a serious chore. I don't say this because I hate dungeons/trials. Actually, I like doing them although perhaps not with the same intensity as others nor with the same kinds of repetition. Vigor by the way also use to be at Alliance War skills 10. They use to have the actives be the final skills which is interestingly how Undaunted works. The best goodies are at the end of Undaunted. This is not true of Pvp-skills which I'm certain was to make PvE folks happy. Guys, maybe its worth dipping your toes into Cyrodiil a little bit. You might just learn you actually like it! I know a lot of people like this.

jaws343 · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

I know those two skills are useful and required by the PVE meta. My point is that Vigor and Caltrops are both PVP skills primarily. Caltrops is specifically against mounted enemies, which you fight only in PVP. Vigor is primarily useful for stam self-heals, which you need in PVP and VMA because that's the only content where you can expect to not have a healer.

By this logic you should not use any skills or gear acquired through pve in pvp. Those are pve skills and gear and used for pve, thus you should stick to pvp based skills and gear. Also, neither skill says for PVP, nor does caltrops say ANYTHING about for mounts. You are just assuming that is its intended purpose. So you are making a false assumption.

You realize most of pve content is solo while most of pvp content is group?

I'm saying that I oppose giving PVE players a PVE path to Caltrops because Caltrops is specifically designed for a situation you only face in PVP. I have no problems with PVE players using it, but they do not use it for the intended anti-cavalry purpose, unlike how it can be used in PVP.

There is nothing in the description of that skill that says its for anti Calvary purposes. However, i agree with the premise if you want to use a pvp skill as someone who pves only then you will just have to suck it up and do pvp to earn that skill and vice versa.

Its irrelevant what you want the skill for, everyone should have to earn it the same way.

There is literally a morph called anti-calvary which says it drains mount stamina and dismounts players.

VaranisArano · March 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

I know those two skills are useful and required by the PVE meta. My point is that Vigor and Caltrops are both PVP skills primarily. Caltrops is specifically against mounted enemies, which you fight only in PVP. Vigor is primarily useful for stam self-heals, which you need in PVP and VMA because that's the only content where you can expect to not have a healer.

By this logic you should not use any skills or gear acquired through pve in pvp. Those are pve skills and gear and used for pve, thus you should stick to pvp based skills and gear. Also, neither skill says for PVP, nor does caltrops say ANYTHING about for mounts. You are just assuming that is its intended purpose. So you are making a false assumption.

You realize most of pve content is solo while most of pvp content is group?

I'm saying that I oppose giving PVE players a PVE path to Caltrops because Caltrops is specifically designed for a situation you only face in PVP. I have no problems with PVE players using it, but they do not use it for the intended anti-cavalry purpose, unlike how it can be used in PVP.

There is nothing in the description of that skill that says its for anti Calvary purposes. However, i agree with the premise if you want to use a pvp skill as someone who pves only then you will just have to suck it up and do pvp to earn that skill and vice versa.

Its irrelevant what you want the skill for, everyone should have to earn it the same way.

There is literally a morph called anti-calvary which says it drains mount stamina and dismounts players.

This. Thanks.

Stahlor · March 2018

Just equip a resto staff, don't be in a group, heal a little bit with rapid regen when big groups are fighting and you'll have your skills in probably about 2 hours.

Dillpat · March 2018

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Up to my third game now where someone has very literally said something along the lines of "hi I'm just here to grind vigor and caltrops, what do I do?"

u need about 150k ap... that is either a few hours in cyro zerg surfing or 15 bgs.

TheRealPotoroo · March 2018

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Imagine if it still requires the original AP to unlock... Boy people would explode

No kidding. I have a character that I leveled up in pvp from 10-50 when the game released. That same character was out fighting in Cyrodiil over and over. Sure I switched it up some times but I was fairly focused for a long time. When the Warden was released I made a MagDen and a StamDen. They were both played exclusively in Cyrodiil. Both of them exceeded this old character that had extensive play time in PvP Rank. PvP leveling is super easy nowadays. By comparison Undaunted is a serious chore. I don't say this because I hate dungeons/trials. Actually, I like doing them although perhaps not with the same intensity as others nor with the same kinds of repetition. Vigor by the way also use to be at Alliance War skills 10. They use to have the actives be the final skills which is interestingly how Undaunted works. The best goodies are at the end of Undaunted. This is not true of Pvp-skills which I'm certain was to make PvE folks happy. Guys, maybe its worth dipping your toes into Cyrodiil a little bit. You might just learn you actually like it! I know a lot of people like this.

Been there, done that, hated it to the point where just thinking about doing it again makes me nauseous.

jaws343 wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

I know those two skills are useful and required by the PVE meta. My point is that Vigor and Caltrops are both PVP skills primarily. Caltrops is specifically against mounted enemies, which you fight only in PVP. Vigor is primarily useful for stam self-heals, which you need in PVP and VMA because that's the only content where you can expect to not have a healer.

By this logic you should not use any skills or gear acquired through pve in pvp. Those are pve skills and gear and used for pve, thus you should stick to pvp based skills and gear. Also, neither skill says for PVP, nor does caltrops say ANYTHING about for mounts. You are just assuming that is its intended purpose. So you are making a false assumption.

You realize most of pve content is solo while most of pvp content is group?

I'm saying that I oppose giving PVE players a PVE path to Caltrops because Caltrops is specifically designed for a situation you only face in PVP. I have no problems with PVE players using it, but they do not use it for the intended anti-cavalry purpose, unlike how it can be used in PVP.

There is nothing in the description of that skill that says its for anti Calvary purposes. However, i agree with the premise if you want to use a pvp skill as someone who pves only then you will just have to suck it up and do pvp to earn that skill and vice versa.

Its irrelevant what you want the skill for, everyone should have to earn it the same way.

There is literally a morph called anti-calvary which says it drains mount stamina and dismounts players.

It actually says, "Also rapidly drains mount stamina and forces riders to dismount." Important word, also. There is nothing in the base Caltrops skill or the Razor Caltrops morph that is specifically anti-cavalry.

Biro123 · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Most PvP is group?

One of the main reasons I play this game is that PVP does NOT require a group. At all.

I find the opposite - with most endgame PVE content requiring a group, which is why I hate the undaunted grind.

Alliance war -group content
Battlegrounds - group content

If you choose to do group content solo, that doesnt make it solo content. Just means you choose to do it solo. Same as if i solo group dungeons.

I mean if you roam around and gank players fishing, collecting shards, and doing pve in content in cyrodil, i guess you could consider that to loosely be solo content. Though i dont see ganking pvers really as pvp. Pretty much all games that have pvp allow for the ability to gank pvers in some areas and most are far better at pvp than ESO.

That's an extremely narrow view. In the last 2 years, i've played in cyrodill 100 percent ungrouped. And 0 percent ganking. There are a LOT of people who play that way. It absolutely does not require a group.
Battlegrounds, yeah, strictly speaking it puts you in a group, but there's no really need for that. You don't need a group before joining, you don't need to talk to them or have specific roles. You aren't in a group with them after it finishes. It's just a temporary random collection of people.

I say again, Endgame PVE requires groups. PvP does not.

jaws343 · March 2018

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Imagine if it still requires the original AP to unlock... Boy people would explode

No kidding. I have a character that I leveled up in pvp from 10-50 when the game released. That same character was out fighting in Cyrodiil over and over. Sure I switched it up some times but I was fairly focused for a long time. When the Warden was released I made a MagDen and a StamDen. They were both played exclusively in Cyrodiil. Both of them exceeded this old character that had extensive play time in PvP Rank. PvP leveling is super easy nowadays. By comparison Undaunted is a serious chore. I don't say this because I hate dungeons/trials. Actually, I like doing them although perhaps not with the same intensity as others nor with the same kinds of repetition. Vigor by the way also use to be at Alliance War skills 10. They use to have the actives be the final skills which is interestingly how Undaunted works. The best goodies are at the end of Undaunted. This is not true of Pvp-skills which I'm certain was to make PvE folks happy. Guys, maybe its worth dipping your toes into Cyrodiil a little bit. You might just learn you actually like it! I know a lot of people like this.

Been there, done that, hated it to the point where just thinking about doing it again makes me nauseous.

jaws343 wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

I know those two skills are useful and required by the PVE meta. My point is that Vigor and Caltrops are both PVP skills primarily. Caltrops is specifically against mounted enemies, which you fight only in PVP. Vigor is primarily useful for stam self-heals, which you need in PVP and VMA because that's the only content where you can expect to not have a healer.

By this logic you should not use any skills or gear acquired through pve in pvp. Those are pve skills and gear and used for pve, thus you should stick to pvp based skills and gear. Also, neither skill says for PVP, nor does caltrops say ANYTHING about for mounts. You are just assuming that is its intended purpose. So you are making a false assumption.

You realize most of pve content is solo while most of pvp content is group?

I'm saying that I oppose giving PVE players a PVE path to Caltrops because Caltrops is specifically designed for a situation you only face in PVP. I have no problems with PVE players using it, but they do not use it for the intended anti-cavalry purpose, unlike how it can be used in PVP.

There is nothing in the description of that skill that says its for anti Calvary purposes. However, i agree with the premise if you want to use a pvp skill as someone who pves only then you will just have to suck it up and do pvp to earn that skill and vice versa.

Its irrelevant what you want the skill for, everyone should have to earn it the same way.

There is literally a morph called anti-calvary which says it drains mount stamina and dismounts players.

It actually says, "Also rapidly drains mount stamina and forces riders to dismount." Important word, also. There is nothing in the base Caltrops skill or the Razor Caltrops morph that is specifically anti-cavalry.

I mean, that's just being obtuse. Even the word caltrops is it relation to antipersonnel and anti-calvary weaponry. That is what caltrops are. Just a quick google search will tell you that.

TheRealPotoroo · March 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Imagine if it still requires the original AP to unlock... Boy people would explode

No kidding. I have a character that I leveled up in pvp from 10-50 when the game released. That same character was out fighting in Cyrodiil over and over. Sure I switched it up some times but I was fairly focused for a long time. When the Warden was released I made a MagDen and a StamDen. They were both played exclusively in Cyrodiil. Both of them exceeded this old character that had extensive play time in PvP Rank. PvP leveling is super easy nowadays. By comparison Undaunted is a serious chore. I don't say this because I hate dungeons/trials. Actually, I like doing them although perhaps not with the same intensity as others nor with the same kinds of repetition. Vigor by the way also use to be at Alliance War skills 10. They use to have the actives be the final skills which is interestingly how Undaunted works. The best goodies are at the end of Undaunted. This is not true of Pvp-skills which I'm certain was to make PvE folks happy. Guys, maybe its worth dipping your toes into Cyrodiil a little bit. You might just learn you actually like it! I know a lot of people like this.

Been there, done that, hated it to the point where just thinking about doing it again makes me nauseous.

jaws343 wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

Firstly, I'm mostly joking, although what I said did happen.
Secoundly Caltrops is useful in group PVE and Vigor is useful for end game solo content and also running in PUG groups.

I know those two skills are useful and required by the PVE meta. My point is that Vigor and Caltrops are both PVP skills primarily. Caltrops is specifically against mounted enemies, which you fight only in PVP. Vigor is primarily useful for stam self-heals, which you need in PVP and VMA because that's the only content where you can expect to not have a healer.

By this logic you should not use any skills or gear acquired through pve in pvp. Those are pve skills and gear and used for pve, thus you should stick to pvp based skills and gear. Also, neither skill says for PVP, nor does caltrops say ANYTHING about for mounts. You are just assuming that is its intended purpose. So you are making a false assumption.

You realize most of pve content is solo while most of pvp content is group?

I'm saying that I oppose giving PVE players a PVE path to Caltrops because Caltrops is specifically designed for a situation you only face in PVP. I have no problems with PVE players using it, but they do not use it for the intended anti-cavalry purpose, unlike how it can be used in PVP.

There is nothing in the description of that skill that says its for anti Calvary purposes. However, i agree with the premise if you want to use a pvp skill as someone who pves only then you will just have to suck it up and do pvp to earn that skill and vice versa.

Its irrelevant what you want the skill for, everyone should have to earn it the same way.

There is literally a morph called anti-calvary which says it drains mount stamina and dismounts players.

It actually says, "Also rapidly drains mount stamina and forces riders to dismount." Important word, also. There is nothing in the base Caltrops skill or the Razor Caltrops morph that is specifically anti-cavalry.

I mean, that's just being obtuse. Even the word caltrops is it relation to antipersonnel and anti-calvary weaponry. That is what caltrops are. Just a quick google search will tell you that.

It's not the least obtuse. Caltrops are not and have never been, in ESO or IRL, an exclusively anti-cavalry weapon.

Joy_Division · March 2018

Sure, just give me Undaunted 9, all the skillpoints from PvE overland quests, Fighter's Guild 10, Mage's Guild 10, etc., and you can have ZoS just hand you caltrops and vigor for doing nothing

raistin87 · March 2018

Just give PvPers access to Master weapons

WhoThenNow7 · March 2018

raistin87 wrote: »

Just give PvPers access to Master weapons

I was just about to comment this haha

Pijng · March 2018

1-1.5 hours in BGs and you already can open vigor + caltrops. 2 casul

Stahlor · March 2018

raistin87 wrote: »

Just give PvPers access to Master weapons

You don't need Master Weapons to play PVP, but you need a viable heal on stam for PVE. So weird that for one of the most impostant ones you have to play PVP.

VaranisArano · March 2018

Stahlor wrote: »

raistin87 wrote: »

Just give PvPers access to Master weapons

You don't need Master Weapons to play PVP, but you need a viable heal on stam for PVE. So weird that for one of the most impostant ones you have to play PVP.

Maybe, just maybe, its because while its true you want a viable on-demand stam heal for PVE, the only content in PVE where you can expect to be without a dedicated healer is VMA (and instanced quests, but if you need Vigor for instanced quests, there's a totally different problem). In group PVE, you don't need Vigor. Not the way a solo PVP stam player needs Vigor.

Whereas in PVP, stamina players can play solo as much as they want - they don't have a healer and need an on-demand stam heal. Stam players can play in small groups - they aren't locked into having a healer (because the content isn't designed to have a healer) so they need an on-demand self-heal. In order to balance stamina vs magicka players in PVP, stamina needs that on-demand self-heal to balance out a lack in most stam class - only stam sorcs and stam wardens have strong class self-heals and stamina warden has the ONLY strong stamina self-heal. In a 1v1 sitatuion, that on-demand stamina self-heal is pretty important - and ZOS doesn't want everyone playing stam wardens.

In PVP, Vigor enables all stamina builds to have a viable on-demand stamina self heal, allowing them to be balanced versus magicka and not dependent on a magicka healer.

In PVE (outside of VMA), Vigor enables stam DPS and tanks to self-heal when the healer can't quite get to them. Because in PVE, you can always have a healer with you.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2018

Sarcastic post or not, I'm dumbfounded at the level or laziness people have for making an end-game capable character.

It's not like it's a license you have to renew annually. You earn it once and you're good.

Goes for both sides of the house.

EDIT: Inb4 "O M G , it's once per character! *shudder*"

Qbiken · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

The extra duration of anti-cavalry caltrops is in some situations better than razor caltrops. But the difference is so small it´s barely noticeable in PvE content anway.

VaranisArano · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm sorry, can you tell me in what PVE content you need a skill designed solely for anti-cavalry combat? Where in PVE are you fighting mounted enemies?

Also, unlike in PVP, the only PVE content where stam players can except to be without a healer is VMA, making Vigor also far more important to solo and small group PVP players.

The extra duration of anti-cavalry caltrops is in some situations better than razor caltrops. But the difference is so small it´s barely noticeable in PvE content anway.

Yeah, so what we're really saying is that you'll never face a situation where you need to dismount mounted enemies in PVE, whereas I might need to dismount mounted enemies while defending a scroll, chasing a scroll, defending a keep, etc. in PVP.

Its a skill that's primarily intended for a situation you'll only ever face in PVP, but like most of the good skills in the game, it is applicable to more than one situation including PVE.