Do you want a "Compare Achievements" and "Inspect Player" option?

Finnisterre · February 2018

No.

No thanks.

I've seen a lot of toxic rubbish already with players demanding max CP, fully gold gear, all no deaths/speed run/hard mode achievements to be linked in chat before they'll deign to allow others to group with them. I think an 'inspect' feature would just provide more tools for those utter toolbags.

If you want to discuss gear or brag about achievements or wave about your e-peen, you can link to your heart's content. You can also choose not to, if you prefer. Personally, I prefer the current system that lets me decide. If folks are curious about build, gear or outfit, I'll happily yak it up. With an Inspect feature, how will I know who's admiring my awesome dye job?

Feanor · February 2018

I don't care.

Instead of inspection, just avoid group finder, the best QoL decision you can ever take in ESO.

Varcarus · February 2018

No.

Elitists will go full *** and trying to find a group for trials/vet dungeons will end up being near-impossible because you'd need to "Have" certian achievements ect.

So NO.

TelvanniWizard · February 2018

Yes.

Would be nice to check and compare achievment progress.

VaranisArano · February 2018

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

It's called working with your group rather than against it.

Yep! You know what? If that tiny bit of DPS is really that important, you could *gasp* talk to your group members. You could actually work it out with them for a couple seconds. Say "Hi" before you start the dungeon. Mention something like "Hey, I've got NMG on, I can switch to something else if needed." And if they say nothing? Well, it wasn't needed.

I know. The idea of actually communicating with PUGs in dungeons is shocking. However, that idea is far less toxic and far less open to abuse than simply inspecting people's gear for snap judgments, especially once people have them set so you can't inspect them and then you have to ask anyway.

This is just from personal experience, but I get much better results from just talking to my group members and being friendly when I enter the dungeon.

phermitgb · February 2018

No.

like most in the "NO" category, I really only see 2 reasons for comparisons

ego stroking, and exclusivity - neither one of which I really find overall useful to the MMO community. The ego stroking is just petty, and the exclusivity - there is a *small* degree of actual merit there, but not enough merit to justify all the well meaning people it would screw over

you're going to get 3 types of people in group finder no matter what system you use, because it depends on the people, not the system - ACTUAL lazy sob jackasses (of which there are always SOME in any MMO), people who are willing to get better if you'll only just point out that they HAVE something to learn, and people actually looking to get better from the get go.

I feel it's far more important to foster the latter two, than to punish the former

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

No.

/AskInChat

Corpier · February 2018

No.

I have 9 alts. Most of which have under 10k achievement points, some with under 5k. I wouldn't agree to this without achievements being account wide.

Seeing other player's gear would be cool though. For cases like stamina dps they could see if someone is running Night Mothers Gaze or Sunderflame before deciding to run max dps or debuff sets.

VaranisArano · February 2018

Almost anything you need from an Inspect Player is available simply by asking politely. That's not as convenient for you and actually requires talking politely to another player, but I think we could all use a little more politeness in the game.

And if they don't tell you, they probably wouldn't have allowed you to inspect them anyway, so you'd still be just as ignorant of their gear.

Ch4mpTW · February 2018

No.

Definitely not. I can’t imagine the trouble I’d get into for dueling tryhards with a broom and bucket.

Izariel · February 2018

Yes.

NO to achievements. That is just pointless.

I would like to be able to inspect players. I see people all the time with awesome looking armor and would like to see what it is so I can rip it off!

JKorr · February 2018

No.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

@MattT1988 then you are not playing enough lol.
also I am so disappointed in most of the replies...shows me the amount of narrow minded people and saltiness in the community...still you don't have to be an elitist to play the game right...if you want to be the common peasant walking down the road and get backstabbed by a bear in a cave then so be it...

That is interesting. Can you link the information that explains how to play the game right? You know, since there is apparently only one way to do that, and most of the players who play for enjoyment/fun/not ubersuperultra competitive are missing the news release.

I've never had someone ignore a question about what gear they're using. I've never ignored a question about what gear I'm wearing. If you tend to ask like "Link what gear you have or we kick you." then I think I can guess the problem. I'd rather not deal with the gottabetehleetestuberevah or don't talk to me types, actually. And unfortunately many of them do fit that stereotype. If they didn't, there wouldn't be quite so many "I didn't have over 9000 cp, so I got kicked" threads.

Bears don't do a lot of backstabbing, btw. In or out of caves. Bears, sabercats, and trolls are more about the straight up mauling. Strangely enough my not best in slot non-trial not monster helm/shoulder crafted mixed set works really well for bears and most other pve type enemies. Not quite the common peasant, any of my characters, really. But then I'm apparently not playing the game right since I don't have the bis gear or fotm build. :shrug:

crjs1 · February 2018

No.

No no no never never.... would be elitism group kicking hell

AlnilamE · February 2018

No.

dday3six wrote: »

Yes the gap in what content lets players get away with is an issue, it has nothing to due with platform either. Not being able to track dps in fights, rather than just a dummy is another separate issue on console. But hey parsers don’t cause toxicity, inspecting other players does.

I’m just baffled by the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to be ok with parsers, but not with inspections. I think they’re both fine. Both have merits, and detractions. Ultimately though I believe players should seek to play with like minded individuals. I would like to think player inspection would be helpful there. *** are going to be *** regardless.

Parsers are consensual. You have to go against the dummy and post your results. Inspecting gear of other players is not.

Honestly, I get yelled at in D3 when I've not switched my gear traits to something perfect, never mind that I'm actually still farming for it and RNG is not my friend.

I don't need to be yelled at by complete strangers because my set pieces are not all Divines or whatever the trait of the month is right now.

If anyone wants to know what gear I'm wearing they can ask (preferably politely). But they don't get to look at it without my permission.

Prof_Bawbag · February 2018

No.

Saying 'Yes' kinda goes against everything ZoS are attempting to achieve in ESO. I mean, why would they introduce features that would alienate even more new blood?

dday3six · February 2018

Yes.

AlnilamE wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Yes the gap in what content lets players get away with is an issue, it has nothing to due with platform either. Not being able to track dps in fights, rather than just a dummy is another separate issue on console. But hey parsers don’t cause toxicity, inspecting other players does.

I’m just baffled by the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to be ok with parsers, but not with inspections. I think they’re both fine. Both have merits, and detractions. Ultimately though I believe players should seek to play with like minded individuals. I would like to think player inspection would be helpful there. *** are going to be *** regardless.

Parsers are consensual. You have to go against the dummy and post your results. Inspecting gear of other players is not.

Honestly, I get yelled at in D3 when I've not switched my gear traits to something perfect, never mind that I'm actually still farming for it and RNG is not my friend.

I don't need to be yelled at by complete strangers because my set pieces are not all Divines or whatever the trait of the month is right now.

If anyone wants to know what gear I'm wearing they can ask (preferably politely). But they don't get to look at it without my permission.

First, people lie.

Second, funny that you removed the original quote that was not talking solely about dummy parses, but boss parsesas well. Hate to be the bear of bad news but a third party addon can group parse with or without your permission.

Third, quit trying to poison the well with appeals to emotion by using words like “consensual”. We both know what your referencing there.

Specifically what most want inspection for is to look at the gear of a person trying to join the group for content the group deems worthy of a gear check. If that ain’t your song and dance, then why are you trying to join that group in the first place?

VaranisArano · February 2018

dday3six wrote: »

Second, funny that you removed the original quote that was not talking solely about dummy parses, but boss parsesas well. Hate to be the bear of bad news but a third party addon can group parse with or without your permission.
...
Specifically what most want inspection for is to look at the gear of a person trying to join the group for content the group deems worthy of a gear check. If that ain’t your song and dance, then why are you trying to join that group in the first place?

To answer the second point, I don't believe there is currently any addon that will tell you my specifc DPS parse without me choosing to link it in chat. You can tell the group DPS and extrapolate from there, but I believe ZOS removed the addon that could tell each group member's DPS parse because the potential for abuse was very high.

I really don't have a problem with a pre-made or guild group wanting to know what gear I've got. That's not my problem with the idea. Thing is, Inspect Player isn't limited to pre-made and guild groups. If you don't think its going to see use in random groupfinder PUGs where it will also be use to shame and exclude, you are being obtuse or very naive. We have enough problems with people kicking solely based off CP that I have zero problems believing that Inspect Player will be abused far worse.

Edited to Add: besides, if this is a pre-made group or guild group people are trying to join, what's so hard about simply asking politely? Yeah, its less convenient, but its much less likely to be abused. Besides, with a pre-made or guild group, you already have some communication going to set the group up in the first place.

MjolnirVilkas · February 2018

Yes.

Yes but the player who you wish to inspect has to agree to this. Kinda like trading and dueling works. Otherwise no, for reasons stated above by other posters, mainly as this would support elitism.

DMuehlhausen · February 2018

No.

Compare Achievement, meh whatever. You give people the ability to compare/inspect gear...just another way for the EJs of the world to kick people without even seeing if somebody is good enough.

dday3six · February 2018

Yes.

VaranisArano wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Second, funny that you removed the original quote that was not talking solely about dummy parses, but boss parsesas well. Hate to be the bear of bad news but a third party addon can group parse with or without your permission.
...
Specifically what most want inspection for is to look at the gear of a person trying to join the group for content the group deems worthy of a gear check. If that ain’t your song and dance, then why are you trying to join that group in the first place?

To answer the second point, I don't believe there is currently any addon that will tell you my specifc DPS parse without me choosing to link it in chat. You can tell the group DPS and extrapolate from there, but I believe ZOS removed the addon that could tell each group member's DPS parse because the potential for abuse was very high.

I really don't have a problem with a pre-made or guild group wanting to know what gear I've got. That's not my problem with the idea. Thing is, Inspect Player isn't limited to pre-made and guild groups. If you don't think its going to see use in random groupfinder PUGs where it will also be use to shame and exclude, you are being obtuse or very naive. We have enough problems with people kicking solely based off CP that I have zero problems believing that Inspect Player will be abused far worse.

Yeah, ZOS tried, but new ones were developed. Players just keep more quit about them now.

At times, “because bads will use it to be bads”, isn’t the best reason not to have something. People kill people with forks, maybe we shouldn’t have them.

Perhaps we should look more into why ‘the gap’ in ESO exists. Why is the groupfinder such a mess. Why are group content runs for dungeons and trials such a point of contention.

I can tell you it’s my experience that for most other games outside of the very hardest content. I can do PUG runs with groupfinder where available, and it’s not the hassle it is in ESO. Curiously though few what to address that. They just want to tell us about features we shouldn’t have because some people will use them to be ***.

EDIT:

VaranisArano wrote: »

Edited to Add: besides, if this is a pre-made group or guild group people are trying to join, what's so hard about simply asking politely? Yeah, its less convenient, but its much less likely to be abused. Besides, with a pre-made or guild group, you already have some communication going to set the group up in the first place.

Like I said, people lie.

Vanthras79 · February 2018

No.

It jeopardizes the "play as you want" motif that ZOS hangs with.

PaixRomanus · February 2018

No.

It's an interesting idea to be honest, but I think it might go too far. I think people would be dismissed because they don't have the right gear and it promotes an elitist attitude - especially in people who have no right to be elite (you know the people - the one who have one vMoL clear and now think they are the top players in the world).
I think it is best to avoid this too many morons in this game and too many would be left behind because of it.

AlnilamE · February 2018

No.

dday3six wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Yes the gap in what content lets players get away with is an issue, it has nothing to due with platform either. Not being able to track dps in fights, rather than just a dummy is another separate issue on console. But hey parsers don’t cause toxicity, inspecting other players does.

I’m just baffled by the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to be ok with parsers, but not with inspections. I think they’re both fine. Both have merits, and detractions. Ultimately though I believe players should seek to play with like minded individuals. I would like to think player inspection would be helpful there. *** are going to be *** regardless.

Parsers are consensual. You have to go against the dummy and post your results. Inspecting gear of other players is not.

Honestly, I get yelled at in D3 when I've not switched my gear traits to something perfect, never mind that I'm actually still farming for it and RNG is not my friend.

I don't need to be yelled at by complete strangers because my set pieces are not all Divines or whatever the trait of the month is right now.

If anyone wants to know what gear I'm wearing they can ask (preferably politely). But they don't get to look at it without my permission.

First, people lie.

Second, funny that you removed the original quote that was not talking solely about dummy parses, but boss parsesas well. Hate to be the bear of bad news but a third party addon can group parse with or without your permission.

Third, quit trying to poison the well with appeals to emotion by using words like “consensual”. We both know what your referencing there.

Specifically what most want inspection for is to look at the gear of a person trying to join the group for content the group deems worthy of a gear check. If that ain’t your song and dance, then why are you trying to join that group in the first place?

First of all, "consensual" refers to consent in general, not just sex. People discuss non-consensual PvP in OWPvP games all the time.

Second, as far as I know, ZOS removed the ability to see an individual player's parse unless they have enabled the option to share it by using the same addon. The other addon will show your DPS in relation to group total, but that's it. If I'm wrong, I would very much like to know that.

The thing is, that people will not only use this inspection option for endgame raid progression. I see people dropping from random normal groups all the time because apparently the rest of the group does not meet their specifications. Never mind that I can carry 3 people through a normal dungeon in my sleep, so I don't care who I get grouped with. It's part of the fun.

I don't want to know what would happen if you get into a random Vet group and people drop left and right (or vote to kick) because one of the players is not wearing what they think they should be. You'd never get a group together.

VaranisArano · February 2018

dday3six wrote: »

At times, “because bads will use it to be bads”, isn’t the best reason not to have something. People kill people with forks, maybe we shouldn’t have them.

That's a terrible argument, it really is. Because if I had a reasonable expectation that people were going to kill people with forks where I was the manager of a venue, yeah, I might not be allowing forks on the premises. (But I digress, because that's a terrible argument.)

Hey, devs. You know some portion of your player base are going to use this new feature to be complete and utter jerks and you can't adequately keep them from being jerks about it. Should you still let your playerbase have that feature?

Or why we don't have a PVP bounty hunter part of the Justice System.

If bad people will use a feature to harass and abuse fellow players and the developers know that and can't prevent that, should they allow it to become a core feature of the game?

I have a reasonable expectation that players will use the Inspect Player feature to be abusive jerks. Do you disagree? Or do you believe that the convenience an Inspect Player option offers is worth other people having to deal with the abusive jerks?

MehrunesFlagon · February 2018

Yes.

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

It's called working with your group rather than against it.

Yep! You know what? If that tiny bit of DPS is really that important, you could *gasp* talk to your group members. You could actually work it out with them for a couple seconds. Say "Hi" before you start the dungeon. Mention something like "Hey, I've got NMG on, I can switch to something else if needed." And if they say nothing? Well, it wasn't needed.

I know. The idea of actually communicating with PUGs in dungeons is shocking. However, that idea is far less toxic and far less open to abuse than simply inspecting people's gear for snap judgments, especially once people have them set so you can't inspect them and then you have to ask anyway.

This is just from personal experience, but I get much better results from just talking to my group members and being friendly when I enter the dungeon.

Yes, while I understand that,but if you realize that such in for can already be seen via combat metrics.although it does not tell you the source but it should at least be obvious.

VaranisArano · February 2018

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

It's called working with your group rather than against it.

Yep! You know what? If that tiny bit of DPS is really that important, you could *gasp* talk to your group members. You could actually work it out with them for a couple seconds. Say "Hi" before you start the dungeon. Mention something like "Hey, I've got NMG on, I can switch to something else if needed." And if they say nothing? Well, it wasn't needed.

I know. The idea of actually communicating with PUGs in dungeons is shocking. However, that idea is far less toxic and far less open to abuse than simply inspecting people's gear for snap judgments, especially once people have them set so you can't inspect them and then you have to ask anyway.

This is just from personal experience, but I get much better results from just talking to my group members and being friendly when I enter the dungeon.

Yes, while I understand that,but if you realize that such in for can already be seen via combat metrics.although it does not tell you the source but it should at least be obvious.

Yeah, I'm aware that Combat Metrics gives us the group DPS and people can extrapolate from there. See, I see that happen in the forums often enough in the "OMG I just had the worst PUG ever!" posts. That's why my expectation is, that given the opportunity, some people will be toxic jerks to players that don't meet their standards, even in random groupfinder groups when theoretically, people signed up to run with complete randoms.

The community is toxic enough already. I really don't understand asking for more tools that will be used by jerks to be jerks. (Not all people who use it will be jerks, obviously. I use Combat Metrics, myself. But it definitely does get used by people to be jerks about it and an Inspect Player option, IMO, would be even worse.)

Nestor · February 2018

No.

If you want to know what someone has on for gear, ask them. If they don't tell you, then it was not meant to be known.

Kanar · February 2018

Yes.

Terrible poll, just delete it. "Inspect player" is not even defined.

I would love a type of description page that we could inspect, containing a free text area where the player could type in a short-ish (like 500 words) character description. Also listed there could be class, race and maybe some configurable other stuff.

dday3six · February 2018

Yes.

.

VaranisArano wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

At times, “because bads will use it to be bads”, isn’t the best reason not to have something. People kill people with forks, maybe we shouldn’t have them.

That's a terrible argument, it really is. Because if I had a reasonable expectation that people were going to kill people with forks where I was the manager of a venue, yeah, I might not be allowing forks on the premises. (But I digress, because that's a terrible argument.)

Hey, devs. You know some portion of your player base are going to use this new feature to be complete and utter jerks and you can't adequately keep them from being jerks about it. Should you still let your playerbase have that feature?

Or why we don't have a PVP bounty hunter part of the Justice System.

If bad people will use a feature to harass and abuse fellow players and the developers know that and can't prevent that, should they allow it to become a core feature of the game?

I have a reasonable expectation that players will use the Inspect Player feature to be abusive jerks. Do you disagree? Or do you believe that the convenience an Inspect Player option offers is worth other people having to deal with the abusive jerks?

I would say that it was the perfect argument. It got you to say just want I wanted you to say. Further you ignored to the topic I plainly stated most people ignore.

You see I knew that you’d leaned in on assumption when you misunderstood me previously, thinking that I was talking about the group finder. I’ve never disagreed that some would use a player inspect option negatively, while continually stating my own personal reasons for why I thought it should be added. I even never gave my opinion on whether or not it could be a toggle option. What I did not do however was push the notion of how wide spread or not said negativity would be. Cause, I can’t know that.

A fork is a tool, just like player inspection, and it’s all in how we use it.

In your example of a manager at a venue you’d stand better chances of knowing how prolific fork killings actually were at the place in question. The hypothetical venue manager and ZOS are not comparable here, because ZOS cannot track data in the same way. What really delivers it here though. Is, no matter the scenario, it’s ignoring a key point. Why are people killing with forks at your venue or why is grouping in ESO so tumultuous in the first place.

Juju_beans · February 2018

No.

In wow if they can't find your parses on warcraftlogs website, don't have the bleeding edge achievements to link, don't have the right level of gear you are NOT getting into a group.

You can inspect players in wow and people were getting kicked from normal dungeons because the high levels didn't want to run with them.

Those that are trying to advance themselves to be able to get into high end groups have to buy carries at 500K-700K a pop and have to do that multiple times to get gear.

Do you really want to see that happening in ESO ?

Will dungeons and trials become an exclusionary club that only high parsing FOTM geared players can join ?