magDK and off-balance changes

boombazookajd · February 2018

Ok folks, first I apologize for what is likely a covered concept but I've come up dry and in between papers, work, and general life I don't have a ton of research time.

I'm beginning to roll a magDk and I've seen the controversy over the off-balance changes and have read the patch notes on change.

How/Why did this seemingly put a nail in the magDK coffin? Also, why have you guys been saying magDK's are dead and in what situations are they dead?

Is it pvp? pve? trials? leaderboards?

I've got a Dark Elf magDK going on XB1 and I am beginning to learn how to work a rotation, stunning and enemy and then whacking them with flame lash. So when we get the patch Tuesday, hitting an off-balance enemy won't consume the off balance.

Will this greatly change the way I will want to play my magDK?

Anhedonie · February 2018

Long story short:

-Flame Lash is free, when target is off-balance. It can last pretty long time. After the patch it won't.
Considering, mDK's skills already cost a lot and class suffers from sustain issues, you're screwed.

-Stamina damage dealers will outdps you in melee slot.

MDK is still ok for normal dungeons or even normal trials. For score runs pick something else. Just not warden.

ak_pvp · February 2018

PvP is fine. Different (whip can be dodged, as such talons is less useful since it guarantees a dodge.) but fine. More freq whips, extra healing, and high exploiter uptime.

PvE is another deal, and sure, DPS is actually higher due to using a fire staff and zaan, but sustain took a massive hit.

IZZEFlameLash · February 2018

In both pve and pvp, mdk got hit on sustain basically. In PvE, it was a way to basically sustain your DPS for a bit longer and in PvP, powerlash missing can end up your opponent healing back to full health after you expend your resources on expensive skills. Then you have to do your expensive combo again or spam defensive skills to not die.

Morgul667 · February 2018

Im no magDK expert but my guildmates pull an easy 39k DPS with it, self buffed, first try.

Id advise you dont listen too much to complains. MagDK will be OK for most content if not all.

What I understand is that you need to adapt, maybe use 2 inferno staff, remorph your whip and put some regen enchants. Not sure though. Just guessing from what I heard guildmates talk about.

ak_pvp · February 2018

IZZESparkling wrote: »

In both pve and pvp, mdk got hit on sustain basically. In PvE, it was a way to basically sustain your DPS for a bit longer and in PvP, powerlash missing can end up your opponent healing back to full health after you expend your resources on expensive skills. Then you have to do your expensive combo again or spam defensive skills to not die.

Whilst it did get buffs, powerlash being our defacto finisher it can be harder to finish off opponents, but overall pressure has gotten higher.

IZZEFlameLash · February 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Whilst it did get buffs, powerlash being our defacto finisher it can be harder to finish off opponents, but overall pressure has gotten higher.

I can kill potatoes just fine but those who knows how to dodge are definitely harder to kill. Making sustain a bit more trickier when that power lash could have finished the opponent and then was dodged. I used the same skill rotations as in CWC and I ended up having to rely more on magicka pots just to secure that kill running from me. I guess it will just take time to get used to it.

ak_pvp · February 2018

Morgul667 wrote: »

Im no magDK expert but my guildmates pull an easy 39k DPS with it, self buffed, first try.

Id advise you dont listen too much to complains. MagDK will be OK for most content if not all.

What I understand is that you need to adapt, maybe use 2 inferno staff, remorph your whip and put some regen enchants. Not sure though. Just guessing from what I heard guildmates talk about.

Isn't that a bit tragic though. Nb pulling 50k parses, petsorc pulling similar or higher at range. And then a DK...

IZZEFlameLash · February 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Im no magDK expert but my guildmates pull an easy 39k DPS with it, self buffed, first try.

Id advise you dont listen too much to complains. MagDK will be OK for most content if not all.

What I understand is that you need to adapt, maybe use 2 inferno staff, remorph your whip and put some regen enchants. Not sure though. Just guessing from what I heard guildmates talk about.

Isn't that a bit tragic though. Nb pulling 50k parses, petsorc pulling similar or higher at range. And then a DK...

Totally. It is not matter of not listening to complaints. It is just true. MDK has no place in raids that are competitive. Why take 39k DPS when you can take 45k and above builds for the very slots mDK will take?

boombazookajd · February 2018

So we have sustain issues due to heavy ability costs. Flame lash is going to cost after patch, it doesn't currently...

Is magDK still a viable option for vet dungeons? That's pretty much all I do, normal and a few vet dungeons and typical overland content.

I know for overland everything is do-able, even the most backwards builds. I just want to useful in dungeons and aware of some of the issues, like mag regen.

I don't PVP a lot and when I do, I really just play support, rez'ing, repairing walls, laying down siege weapons and the like.

boombazookajd · February 2018

And i'm digging through the patch notes, and it seems like Off-Balance will last a while longer than it does now as it won't be consumed when utilized but is on a timer. So is Power lash no longer free?

I feel like I am missing something.

zParallaxz · February 2018

I’ll tell u this bro, I stopped playing this game until the next chapter comes out with the allegeded balancing patch along with it. I’m one of the best magdks on Xbox Na, there was no reason to make power lash dodgeable since our class has no excute or reliable way to burst unlike ever other class on the game besides current upcoming patch magwarden. I’m mainly speaking from pvp terms. In terms of pve, ur less likely to be picked up since it’s a gimped class. If u don’t believe I’m one of the best ask in any major city zone chat and they shall say my name.

Morgul667 · February 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Im no magDK expert but my guildmates pull an easy 39k DPS with it, self buffed, first try.

Id advise you dont listen too much to complains. MagDK will be OK for most content if not all.

What I understand is that you need to adapt, maybe use 2 inferno staff, remorph your whip and put some regen enchants. Not sure though. Just guessing from what I heard guildmates talk about.

Isn't that a bit tragic though. Nb pulling 50k parses, petsorc pulling similar or higher at range. And then a DK...

Im talking self buffed first try for a non magdk player on a construct, not in raid.

Does not seem tragic to me. Could probably do more with training but 39 k DPS self buffed on a dummy, is enough to do most if not all game content.

Vahrokh · February 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Im no magDK expert but my guildmates pull an easy 39k DPS with it, self buffed, first try.

Id advise you dont listen too much to complains. MagDK will be OK for most content if not all.

What I understand is that you need to adapt, maybe use 2 inferno staff, remorph your whip and put some regen enchants. Not sure though. Just guessing from what I heard guildmates talk about.

Isn't that a bit tragic though. Nb pulling 50k parses, petsorc pulling similar or higher at range. And then a DK...

Sorcs do 50k parses with full raid buffs, NBs (just look at this forum threads and videos) do 50k self buffed.

ak_pvp · February 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Im no magDK expert but my guildmates pull an easy 39k DPS with it, self buffed, first try.

Id advise you dont listen too much to complains. MagDK will be OK for most content if not all.

What I understand is that you need to adapt, maybe use 2 inferno staff, remorph your whip and put some regen enchants. Not sure though. Just guessing from what I heard guildmates talk about.

Isn't that a bit tragic though. Nb pulling 50k parses, petsorc pulling similar or higher at range. And then a DK...

Sorcs do 50k parses with full raid buffs, NBs (just look at this forum threads and videos) do 50k self buffed.

I meant similar to a DK, but still a bit higher in most cases.

Morgul667 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Im no magDK expert but my guildmates pull an easy 39k DPS with it, self buffed, first try.

Id advise you dont listen too much to complains. MagDK will be OK for most content if not all.

What I understand is that you need to adapt, maybe use 2 inferno staff, remorph your whip and put some regen enchants. Not sure though. Just guessing from what I heard guildmates talk about.

Isn't that a bit tragic though. Nb pulling 50k parses, petsorc pulling similar or higher at range. And then a DK...

Im talking self buffed first try for a non magdk player on a construct, not in raid.

Does not seem tragic to me. Could probably do more with training but 39 k DPS self buffed on a dummy, is enough to do most if not all game content.

Even still. A 10k selfbuffed difference, and DK has a melee slot, and sustain issues. What is the point of playing one over some other build? Even some vet dungeons you are at a disadvantage. I.e. vSP HM 2 ranged dds are better since they can stay between the poison areas, dodge mechanics etc and deal full damage. Or in vFH, last boss, where they can deal full damage whilst the AoEs happen.

SoLooney · February 2018

lol, idk about pvp, but in pve as a magic class, they have to play with melee with the whip. your stam counterparts will dps you no problem and never complain about sustain

not to mention any other stam class will outdps you

my advice playing a mag dk, play a magblade or reroll to stam dk

beetleklee · February 2018

I took mine to trials today after not playing it for a while.

Damage is ok, sustain is awful, even worse this patch, not getting many power lashes due to the off balance changes.
My StamDK does more damage and never has sustain issues.

I haven't PVPed with MagDK in months, so I can't speak for the newer changes for that,

Qbiken · February 2018

PvE magDK will have to wait another patch. Un-sustainable at the moment......

Maulkin · February 2018

beetleklee wrote: »

I took mine to trials today after not playing it for a while.

Damage is ok, sustain is awful, even worse this patch, not getting many power lashes due to the off balance changes.
My StamDK does more damage and never has sustain issues.

I haven't PVPed with MagDK in months, so I can't speak for the newer changes for that,

Generally sustain in CP campaigns is better than before. No-CP stuff is always quite hard on MagDK without block-cost and CC break reductions. You can drive people out of stam very quickly on 1v1s and push kills. But your lack of mobility can lead you to being outnumbered frequently and you can't sustain a 1v3 fight without CPs. And if the opponent is using resource poisons, it's GG.

Your experience of MagDK in PvE matches what I saw in our raid. Below stam DD damage, but acceptable levels. One of the worst in terms of sustain. Brings nothing on the table that the DK tank does not already bring.

Cybercore_Death · February 2018

I've played as a DK since i started playing this game, MagDK specifically over the last 12/18 months and can confirm that not only are they a fun build to play they are also capable of doing all content the game offers.

I currently run a double shock staff build but will be testing the difference between double shock, mix of both and double fire to see what will work the best tomorrow.

I have no issues with sustain and have tried a double fire staff build and had no issues with sustain there either. Like every build in the game its about learning its strengths and weaknesses to overcome any limitations and prosper in all situations.

I play mainly PvE (but my currently build can hold out pretty well in PvP, most I've managed survive is 1v3 which is poor by the standard of most but for a PvE focused build i don't think thats too bad going).

Once i've done my testing and worked out the best way to move forward i will drop a link to the build here for you OP (and anyone else) to review and give any criticism / feedback on anything that could be changed / improved :-)

boombazookajd · February 2018

beetleklee wrote: »

Damage is ok, sustain is awful, even worse this patch, not getting many power lashes due to the off balance changes.

Can you explain this for me? Why don't you get many power lashes? Is it because the lash stuns the enemy and then consumes the off-balance?

What if the enemy is already

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

I've played as a DK since i started playing this game, MagDK specifically over the last 12/18 months and can confirm that not only are they a fun build to play they are also capable of doing all content the game offers.

I currently run a double shock staff build but will be testing the difference between double shock, mix of both and double fire to see what will work the best tomorrow.

I have no issues with sustain and have tried a double fire staff build and had no issues with sustain there either. Like every build in the game its about learning its strengths and weaknesses to overcome any limitations and prosper in all situations.

I play mainly PvE (but my currently build can hold out pretty well in PvP, most I've managed survive is 1v3 which is poor by the standard of most but for a PvE focused build i don't think thats too bad going).

Once i've done my testing and worked out the best way to move forward i will drop a link to the build here for you OP (and anyone else) to review and give any criticism / feedback on anything that could be changed / improved :-)

very cool man! can't wait!

Cybercore_Death · February 2018

boombazookajd wrote: »

beetleklee wrote: »

Damage is ok, sustain is awful, even worse this patch, not getting many power lashes due to the off balance changes.

Can you explain this for me? Why don't you get many power lashes? Is it because the lash stuns the enemy and then consumes the off-balance?

What if the enemy is already

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

I've played as a DK since i started playing this game, MagDK specifically over the last 12/18 months and can confirm that not only are they a fun build to play they are also capable of doing all content the game offers.

I currently run a double shock staff build but will be testing the difference between double shock, mix of both and double fire to see what will work the best tomorrow.

I have no issues with sustain and have tried a double fire staff build and had no issues with sustain there either. Like every build in the game its about learning its strengths and weaknesses to overcome any limitations and prosper in all situations.

I play mainly PvE (but my currently build can hold out pretty well in PvP, most I've managed survive is 1v3 which is poor by the standard of most but for a PvE focused build i don't think thats too bad going).

Once i've done my testing and worked out the best way to move forward i will drop a link to the build here for you OP (and anyone else) to review and give any criticism / feedback on anything that could be changed / improved :-)

very cool man! can't wait!

To explain how Power Lash works. Basically when an enemy goes off balance the symbol for your whip changes to indicate it is now free while the enemy is off balance. As it stands this patch you could then get a good 5-6 free whips on an enemy before off balance wore off (whips, if the build is configured right, can do 25-30k+ damage in 1 hit so you can see the benefit of this. On top of that it also heals for 14k+ health in the same hit).

Now that off balance is changing and is now a lot (is an understatement) shorter in duration we can no longer spam the free whip as much to get good damage and free heals.

A lot of people have said sustain is an issue but i genuinely have no issues with it (even in Vet content) but again it depends on build and play style.