Juju_beans wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Extremely bad idea. It's bad enough that a vote can be made to kick a player in a Dungeon. I know the vote kick is there to remove a stuck/dc'd toon but reality is it is used to boot "under preforming" characters even in NORMAL Dungeons. It'd be much worse should inspection of gear be added.

I do not want to see another tool add to be used to measure up others to what someone thinks the "standard" should be.

It should be used to kick under performing players from dungeons. When 3 peole feel teh run is being hindered by one person,why not?Besides,having maybe not access to seeing gear,but skill set up might be helpful.Another thing to consider is say you are able to wear nm/sunder,and can plainly see the other dps is stam.As we know there are people that never talk in dungeons.If you were able to see if they were wearing such sets.It would ensure also that your group synergizes better.

Inspecting gear/achievements won't tell you that off the bat before the run starts unless you plan to strictly base it off gear worn and achievements completed.

Players do that in wow and you know what..an add-on got created to show fake achievements so people could get in groups.
And carries to get good gear cost near 100K gold or more depending on how long the raid has been out.

I had completely forgotten about that add-on and the angst generated by it.

Just shows that chasing the dragon will result in more chasing and then more and more. One of the reasons I rarely bother anymore.

dday3six wrote: »

“Elitism” is a tiresome bogeyman. You could say not having it allows ‘carry me’s’ to try and sneak in under the radar. ESO suffers from attempts to shield players from actually trying.

Does it? Maybe on console. You can check group and single dps, buffs and what not. Also, I prefer the 30k dps with movement over 45k+ dummy target player any day of the week.

I experienced this inspect feature in other games. It created much more toxicity than anything else.

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Extremely bad idea. It's bad enough that a vote can be made to kick a player in a Dungeon. I know the vote kick is there to remove a stuck/dc'd toon but reality is it is used to boot "under preforming" characters even in NORMAL Dungeons. It'd be much worse should inspection of gear be added.

I do not want to see another tool add to be used to measure up others to what someone thinks the "standard" should be.

It should be used to kick under performing players from dungeons. When 3 peole feel teh run is being hindered by one person,why not?Besides,having maybe not access to seeing gear,but skill set up might be helpful.Another thing to consider is say you are able to wear nm/sunder,and can plainly see the other dps is stam.As we know there are people that never talk in dungeons.If you were able to see if they were wearing such sets.It would ensure also that your group synergizes better.

Inspecting gear/achievements won't tell you that off the bat before the run starts unless you plan to strictly base it off gear worn and achievements completed.

Players do that in wow and you know what..an add-on got created to show fake achievements so people could get in groups.
And carries to get good gear cost near 100K gold or more depending on how long the raid has been out.

my comment is more aimed towards wearing 2x of a set that won't stack.So read a bit more carefully.At least when referring to nmg/sunder.

I did and you also commented you wanted to see what skills they slotted.

I am always up to compare virtual phallii with other people.

VaranisArano wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

“Elitism” is a tiresome bogeyman. You could say not having it allows ‘carry me’s’ to try and sneak in under the radar. ESO suffers from attempts to shield players from actually trying.

Does it? Maybe on console. You can check group and single dps, buffs and what not. Also, I prefer the 30k dps with movement over 45k+ dummy target player any day of the week.

I experienced this inspect feature in other games. It created much more toxicity than anything else.

Yes the gap in what content lets players get away with is an issue, it has nothing to due with platform either. Not being able to track dps in fights, rather than just a dummy is another separate issue on console. But hey parsers don’t cause toxicity, inspecting other players does.

I’m just baffled by the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to be ok with parsers, but not with inspections. I think they’re both fine. Both have merits, and detractions. Ultimately though I believe players should seek to play with like minded individuals. I would like to think player inspection would be helpful there. *** are going to be *** regardless.

Wasting my time is not high on my priority list. Often when looking to fill a group slot, players with the mentality of “just carry me” reply. You load into content, the first pull is a wash, and you have to start again. Player inspecting would assist in circumventing that. Which is why I’m for it.

I don’t feel that it’s my responsibility to politely carry and tutor everyone who crosses my path. I’m not remotely opposed to helping others either. However, is it too much to think they should at least ask? There’s this mentality of expectation unique to ESO. People feel entitled to the time and tutelage of others. And should you choose to resist you’re met with a hail of “if you’re actually good than just carry them”, and scarlet letters of elitism. Then people wonder why others don’t want to reach out.

While I'm sympathetic to your argument here, if you really want to make sure no one is expecting you to carry someone, you probably shouldn't be using groupfinder to look for random group members.

Because part of using group finder to look for random group members is that you've signed up to run a dungeon with whatever random group members ZOS finds you.

Its not elitist to expect everyone to be able to fulfill their role in a group dungeon. But Groupfinder makes no such guarantee, only that it will provide you with a warm body to fill that slot, or else my healers wouldn't meet so many fake tanks through groupfinder. If I want a guaranteed good tank, I don't use groupfinder.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough, but I was not talking about the groupfinder. I was talking about using zone or even guild chat, or some other third party LFG.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Yes I do, but don't care for the achievements espect, what I want is an roleplay bio system where you can write in your charaters history and attributes. Kinda like the bio system in Neverwinter and startrek online.
Would be so useful for roleplayers.

I think being able to read peoples' character bios/histories would be nice, though obviously potentially likely abused

Maybe allow people to highlight certain achievements (like title does), but not comprehensive.

dday3six wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

“Elitism” is a tiresome bogeyman. You could say not having it allows ‘carry me’s’ to try and sneak in under the radar. ESO suffers from attempts to shield players from actually trying.

Does it? Maybe on console. You can check group and single dps, buffs and what not. Also, I prefer the 30k dps with movement over 45k+ dummy target player any day of the week.

I experienced this inspect feature in other games. It created much more toxicity than anything else.

Yes the gap in what content lets players get away with is an issue, it has nothing to due with platform either. Not being able to track dps in fights, rather than just a dummy is another separate issue on console. But hey parsers don’t cause toxicity, inspecting other players does.

I’m just baffled by the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to be ok with parsers, but not with inspections. I think they’re both fine. Both have merits, and detractions. Ultimately though I believe players should seek to play with like minded individuals. I would like to think player inspection would be helpful there. *** are going to be *** regardless.

Wasting my time is not high on my priority list. Often when looking to fill a group slot, players with the mentality of “just carry me” reply. You load into content, the first pull is a wash, and you have to start again. Player inspecting would assist in circumventing that. Which is why I’m for it.

I don’t feel that it’s my responsibility to politely carry and tutor everyone who crosses my path. I’m not remotely opposed to helping others either. However, is it too much to think they should at least ask? There’s this mentality of expectation unique to ESO. People feel entitled to the time and tutelage of others. And should you choose to resist you’re met with a hail of “if you’re actually good than just carry them”, and scarlet letters of elitism. Then people wonder why others don’t want to reach out.

While I'm sympathetic to your argument here, if you really want to make sure no one is expecting you to carry someone, you probably shouldn't be using groupfinder to look for random group members.

Because part of using group finder to look for random group members is that you've signed up to run a dungeon with whatever random group members ZOS finds you.

Its not elitist to expect everyone to be able to fulfill their role in a group dungeon. But Groupfinder makes no such guarantee, only that it will provide you with a warm body to fill that slot, or else my healers wouldn't meet so many fake tanks through groupfinder. If I want a guaranteed good tank, I don't use groupfinder.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough, but I was not talking about the groupfinder. I was talking about using zone or even guild chat, or some other third party LFG.

Sorry, that wasn't clear from the conversation I'd read. If you are putting a group together from zone or guild, I see no problem with talking to group members and making sure they've got everything they need and making sure they aren't expecting a carry. In fact, I'd say that's exactly what those types of groups are there for - players that have standards that aren't going to be easily met by the groupfinder.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Do you want a "Compare Achievements" and "Inspect Player" option?

I can see it now... "Whip out your achievement list, let us compare whose is longer!" -zipper sounds-

Generalyl though, I cannot see any advantage in either of those options. And some drawbacks as people get kicked from PUGs for not having the "right" gear, or whatnot...

...


What I -would- like was a small backstory tab where you could share some info about your character, some rumours others might have heard and such... But thats a roleplayer thing I guess...

It is and I want it for that very reason

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

@DieAlteHexe

Heh, I think not. Sucks when things go awry.

One.

Having done a metric ton of raids in other MMOs (and now a reasonable number of vet dungeons in ESO), I can tell you that Inspect is a highly useful option to have for endgame group content in principle.

The classic example, which I've encountered many a time, is - a PUG of 10 players is being put together, and just before jumping in the lead inspects every other group member to make sure what they're wearing isn't grossly inappropriate for the content they are about to do. Because if it is, and you only find out about it midway through the fight, either everyone has to work that much harder all of a sudden, or the whole outing turns into a bit of a time-waster (e.g. what should have been a 20 minute run takes just under an hour).

Somewhat less frequently, I've also used Inspect to look at what some of the best-performing players in a group are using (in addition to paying attention to their rotation, of course). This is sort of the flipside of the coin for the function - you can weed out the bad, but also take notes from the good.

Obviously ESO has its own environment and dynamics. Knowing mechanics matters, executing a rotation (in fact, having a rotation) matters, not standing in red circles matters. That said, gearing also matters, and on the whole I would support an Inspect function even as this does open the door to people getting kicked "unjustly" a bit wider (because there will always be people kicked "unjustly"). [Put differently, if you get kicked after an Inspect from vCoS, it's probably you. If you get kicked after an Inspect from nFG1, the group is probably bad enough to have found a reason to kick you in any case, so don't blame the function.]

---

Two.

I've played a metric megaton of deathmatches in World of Tanks-type games (including WoT itself). Hell, I've been an alpha and beta tester for some of them. And one interesting bit about them is that everyone, everyone, can see everyone else's detailed match stats, including broken down by specific vehicle type.

What that does is three things.

One, what you say - in-game or on the forums - can be immediately be comped against your in-game performance. Oh, you want to post on the forums and make out like you're an expert? Let me pull up your profile. Obviously that won't stop a troll, but you'd be surprised at how quickly that can shut people up or streamline the discussion.

Two, during the match if you install a certain add-on you can immediately tell who on your team has "good" stats and who has "bad" ones. [And, as well, who has had how many fights in the vehicle they are driving.] In a 15 on 15 PUG PVP environment where, most likely, you won't cross with the same person for months at a time, if ever, that is a pretty big advantage to have. Follow the good players on your team, target the good players on their team. That sort of thing.

Three, and this is a negative consequence, sometimes people give up at the start of a match because "half my PUG is made up of bad players". Which, to be sure, is a pretty bad disadvantage to have, but it's still annoying to have people just accept defeat at the outset instead of trying to make a go of it.

Now. ESO is obviously not WoT. However. Having your player profile available to everyone for viewing, including both achievements and stuff like "how many times have you completed each dungeon on normal, vet, vet HM" (account-wide and on that character), kills vs. deaths ratio (PVP or boss PVE), et cetera - you know what, I think I would find that helpful. Both on the forums and in group content to quickly figure out who's who and what's what, before things get dicey. Not to mention, as someone noted, the "bragging rights" bit.

So this I would support as well, but note that "this" goes into it rather deeper than what the OP might have had in mind.

[/quote]my comment is more aimed towards wearing 2x of a set that won't stack.So read a bit more carefully.At least when referring to nmg/sunder.[/quote]

I did and you also commented you wanted to see what skills they slotted.

[/quote]
If you think about it could prevent alot of anger in groups if you could spot a dps using a taunt early in the dungeon.
Now I think we can all agree that seeing a sword and board on a dps makes you want to know if he is using puncture.

Dromede wrote: »

I do, but mostly because i love checking out people's choice of armor sets and looks, and latest achievements. Asking for armor/costumes in /whisper doesn't always guarantee an answer, unfortunately

Also, i think that i would make guild master's work easier, say, for special trial guilds and so on. I think it's ok to have a little bit more selectness when going for the hardest endgame content as long as everyone is polite and helpful rather than bashing and mean.

One of the GMs I have organizes pre-trial gear runs for those who don't have the gear needed for a trial. They usually start a week before the trial is scheduled and all you have to do is ask. I know everyone doesn't have the time or patience for that but I've always thought it was an excellent way to do things since lots of players may have great skills and experience but not the highest level/best gear for the role they want to play in a trial.