pvp incentives

JerzeeDevil · February 2018

How many campaigns do you think that there are?

Did not read whole thread****

MeinChurro · February 2018

Make it actually accessible for new players, that get stomped by absolutely ridiculous high level players/groups that dominate it.

Nihility42 · February 2018

zaria wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

There is already a huge incentive. PvPing for a few hours gives you 50 transmute crystals. It's by far the most efficient method for earning these. Running dungeons would take you like 15-20 dungeons to earn 50 crystals.

With the removal of the exploit/bug/method of opening one Rewards for the Worthy mail per character, transmute crystals aren't quite that fast. You only get the geode once per day now, plus end of campaign rewards and any random geodes you're lucky enough to get via RNG.

If you don't play pvp every day you can wait to the next day before opening the second mail and so on.
has not tested this myself but it makes sense based on how the mechanics work.
Also think its account bound not character so if you get one mail on one character, move on to next his mail would not get an geode unless lucky.

Yeah, you can do that. I save a few mails to open on later days in case I don't have time to PVP. That said, it's still much slower. You max out at ~30 per week excluding luck since almost all of the geoades give 4. Whereas before you could potentially get 40-50 per day just by opening geoades on all available character slots.

And that is how it works now. You only get one geode per account per day, exluding lucky RNG (rarely a geode drops in addition to the daily geode). Before it didn't work like this, you got one per character that oepned a mail per day. Made gaining crystals stupid fast.

Nihility42 · February 2018

MeinChurro wrote: »

Make it actually accessible for new players, that get stomped by absolutely ridiculous high level players/groups that dominate it.

I agree that there needs to be a way to help layers ease into it, because the learning curve is high, but I don't know how you do that without dumbing down the combat. The issue isn'tt really that people are higher level, have better gear, or running in crazy organized groups (though those things do contribute). The real problem new players have is that PVP is HARD. Really, really hard. An experienced PVPers given a cp 160 toon with decent, not even great, gear can easily take down cp capped players because skill is honestly the biggest factor.

So the problem is, how do we help new players gain that skill without somehow gimping the better players that have spent months or years to gain their own? I think that BGs could be the answer, in theory. Imagine if BGs were added to ESO+ subscriber beenfits, or even made free. So everyone has access, you have a larger pool of players. Now add a proper solo queue and perhaps even ranked play so that noobs face noobs. Suddenly you have the perfect incubator where people can face those roughly at thair skill level, giving them a softer start into PVP. And as they get better they start to face the super players on more even footing.

Narvuntien · February 2018

MeinChurro wrote: »

Make it actually accessible for new players, that get stomped by absolutely ridiculous high level players/groups that dominate it.

New players have to join the < lvl 50 campaign. Its much more forgiving than jumping blind into Vivec. Where they will be crushed.

As I said PUGs in PVP are really great. You have to get into PVP and type "lfg" and then just play, no gone cares if you die no one cares what gear you are wearing or skills you are using, all they care about is that you are trying and following the crown.

Ooh its important you pick up siege if you aren't good at actually fighting. Man the siege while the actually good players protect you.

The thing is... getting stomped doesn't matter in PVP, at least Cryodil PVP.... you are just a foot solider in an army. You'd death probably revealed a ganker to the group and you did a service.

Nihility42 · February 2018

Narvuntien wrote: »

MeinChurro wrote: »

Make it actually accessible for new players, that get stomped by absolutely ridiculous high level players/groups that dominate it.

New players have to join the < lvl 50 campaign. Its much more forgiving than jumping blind into Vivec. Where they will be crushed.

As I said PUGs in PVP are really great. You have to get into PVP and type "lfg" and then just play, no gone cares if you die no one cares what gear you are wearing or skills you are using, all they care about is that you are trying and following the crown.

Ooh its important you pick up siege if you aren't good at actually fighting. Man the siege while the actually good players protect you.

The thing is... getting stomped doesn't matter in PVP, at least Cryodil PVP.... you are just a foot solider in an army. You'd death probably revealed a ganker to the group and you did a service.

This is also true. The good players pretty much all started here. I'm not even a good players. I'm barely above pugtato level, but I've got to the barely notable level I am by dying hundreds of times in PUG groups and manning siege and whatnot.

Tan9oSuccka · February 2018

The rewards are pretty good already.

Transmute crystals up the wazoo, AP for motifs, gold jewelry. No armor decay or repairs really.

If one can get past their own e-peen and realize if you die in PVP....who cares?!

Now, give me my rewards of the worthy.

MeinChurro · February 2018

Narvuntien wrote: »

MeinChurro wrote: »

Make it actually accessible for new players, that get stomped by absolutely ridiculous high level players/groups that dominate it.

New players have to join the < lvl 50 campaign. Its much more forgiving than jumping blind into Vivec. Where they will be crushed.

As I said PUGs in PVP are really great. You have to get into PVP and type "lfg" and then just play, no gone cares if you die no one cares what gear you are wearing or skills you are using, all they care about is that you are trying and following the crown.

Ooh its important you pick up siege if you aren't good at actually fighting. Man the siege while the actually good players protect you.

The thing is... getting stomped doesn't matter in PVP, at least Cryodil PVP.... you are just a foot solider in an army. You'd death probably revealed a ganker to the group and you did a service.

No, it isn't. I'm not a new player, but I am a constantly returning player since beta, and getting outrageously stomped has made me run for the hills everytime I wanna try something new that's not PvE. When I try to learn PvP in the under 50 queue I get massacred in 2 seconds, and when I don't I don't think I even do a % of damage to other players. Especially battlegrounds, can't 1v1 anyone when I cant do any damage at all yet they actually do damage to me, let alone 2v1. Apparently I have to game the system and have to wear heavy armor with impenetrable or something so I can even PLAY. The best I can do is pretend im doing something by following a large group in Cyrodiil or run around in circles trying to cap or backcap flags in bg's or something anything to do with combat is a waste of time.

I keep coming back and try to get into it, but a new player won't have as much tolerance.

JerzeeDevil · February 2018

Nihility42 wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

There is already a huge incentive. PvPing for a few hours gives you 50 transmute crystals. It's by far the most efficient method for earning these. Running dungeons would take you like 15-20 dungeons to earn 50 crystals.

With the removal of the exploit/bug/method of opening one Rewards for the Worthy mail per character, transmute crystals aren't quite that fast. You only get the geode once per day now, plus end of campaign rewards and any random geodes you're lucky enough to get via RNG.

If you don't play pvp every day you can wait to the next day before opening the second mail and so on.
has not tested this myself but it makes sense based on how the mechanics work.
Also think its account bound not character so if you get one mail on one character, move on to next his mail would not get an geode unless lucky.

Yeah, you can do that. I save a few mails to open on later days in case I don't have time to PVP. That said, it's still much slower. You max out at ~30 per week excluding luck since almost all of the geoades give 4. Whereas before you could potentially get 40-50 per day just by opening geoades on all available character slots.

And that is how it works now. You only get one geode per account per day, exluding lucky RNG (rarely a geode drops in addition to the daily geode). Before it didn't work like this, you got one per character that oepned a mail per day. Made gaining crystals stupid fast.

Not accurate about 1 geode per day***

JerzeeDevil · February 2018

Narvuntien wrote: »

MeinChurro wrote: »

Make it actually accessible for new players, that get stomped by absolutely ridiculous high level players/groups that dominate it.

New players have to join the < lvl 50 campaign. Its much more forgiving than jumping blind into Vivec. Where they will be crushed.

As I said PUGs in PVP are really great. You have to get into PVP and type "lfg" and then just play, no gone cares if you die no one cares what gear you are wearing or skills you are using, all they care about is that you are trying and following the crown.

Ooh its important you pick up siege if you aren't good at actually fighting. Man the siege while the actually good players protect you.

The thing is... getting stomped doesn't matter in PVP, at least Cryodil PVP.... you are just a foot solider in an army. You'd death probably revealed a ganker to the group and you did a service.

You most certainly DO NOT have to join Kyne***

Turelus · February 2018

A bit late to the thread but here goes.

Adding rewards which incentivise people who are not interested in PvP to PvP isn't the correct way to improve the numbers. You're not getting people who want to or will enjoy being there and they will avoid PvP by any cheesy means possible to get their rewards and go again.

ZOS would be better off improving the PvP experience so that it's enjoyable to PvP and the rewards given are suited towards those playing for enjoyment of PvP combat and not just because they want/need a thing.

JerzeeDevil · February 2018

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

The rewards are pretty good already.

Transmute crystals up the wazoo, AP for motifs, gold jewelry. No armor decay or repairs really.

If one can get past their own e-peen and realize if you die in PVP....who cares?!

Now, give me my rewards of the worthy.

Saw you by some outpost, I think I said HELLO. I wanted to rez you, but alas you were on an EP toon

Nihility42 · February 2018

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

There is already a huge incentive. PvPing for a few hours gives you 50 transmute crystals. It's by far the most efficient method for earning these. Running dungeons would take you like 15-20 dungeons to earn 50 crystals.

With the removal of the exploit/bug/method of opening one Rewards for the Worthy mail per character, transmute crystals aren't quite that fast. You only get the geode once per day now, plus end of campaign rewards and any random geodes you're lucky enough to get via RNG.

If you don't play pvp every day you can wait to the next day before opening the second mail and so on.
has not tested this myself but it makes sense based on how the mechanics work.
Also think its account bound not character so if you get one mail on one character, move on to next his mail would not get an geode unless lucky.

Yeah, you can do that. I save a few mails to open on later days in case I don't have time to PVP. That said, it's still much slower. You max out at ~30 per week excluding luck since almost all of the geoades give 4. Whereas before you could potentially get 40-50 per day just by opening geoades on all available character slots.

And that is how it works now. You only get one geode per account per day, exluding lucky RNG (rarely a geode drops in addition to the daily geode). Before it didn't work like this, you got one per character that oepned a mail per day. Made gaining crystals stupid fast.

Not accurate about 1 geode per day***

What do you mean? I think perhaps I wasn't clear in my post. I meant that you get roughly one geode per day, which works out to ~30 crystals per week. A far cry from the 30+ per day it was easy to get before this patch.

Also, as an aside, never thought I'd see JerzeeDevil here. Haven't seen your name for years since I used to post on BladeForums.

Tan9oSuccka · February 2018

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

The rewards are pretty good already.

Transmute crystals up the wazoo, AP for motifs, gold jewelry. No armor decay or repairs really.

If one can get past their own e-peen and realize if you die in PVP....who cares?!

Now, give me my rewards of the worthy.

Saw you by some outpost, I think I said HELLO. I wanted to rez you, but alas you were on an EP toon

Nice. I got steamrolled several times at Sej last night. Yellows rolling out big numbers even though they got throttled in the campaign.

I’ll take my AP and crystals though. Haha

Ragnarock41 · February 2018

lucky_Sage wrote: »

what thing could zos ad to make people want to pvp

costumes for certain ranks a mount for grand overlord

how to make unpopulated campaigns worth going into

I Don't know, maybe make it fun for people that aren't nightblades as a start?

Narvuntien · February 2018

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

You most certainly DO NOT have to join Kyne***

It was an exaggeration. New players should join the PVP that is appropriate for their level.

If you have 100 cp... its going to be very hard to play PVP.... even without cp you don't have max level gear and in the non cp campaigns your gear matters a lot more. Then obviously you'll get stomped in Vivec.

Players new to PVP but experienced in PVE.. need to remember that they are new.... and they have to learn a whole new set of skills... and they should change their expectations of their performance.

Biro123 · February 2018

My mailbox is full to the brim of unread rewards for the worthy.. (55 unread is says.. hasn't gone up for ages so I guess its as full as full can be)

Its like Viagra-spam but without a spam-filter..

Getting bored with having to log on an unused character every now and then, empty his inventory just so I can unload all these mails and vendor the crap..

Just saying... maybe make the rewards USEFUL!!! like maybe gold or mats - or gold-mats!

coop500 · February 2018

Tel var for storage boxes is currently the biggest incentive and even then, I'm PVEing (killing NPC enemies) in a PVA zone (Player Vs All) hoping to avoid PVP (my stones getting swiped)

coop500 · February 2018

Tel var for storage boxes is currently the biggest incentive and even then, I'm PVEing (killing NPC enemies) in a PVA zone (Player Vs All) hoping to avoid PVP (my stones getting swiped)

Sergykid · February 2018

no more item rewards. Stop this fashion about hoarding stuff.

pvp should be fun. Played for the fun of it. I don't go Cryodill for AP, i go for competition, for the suspense, for the action.

i would like to see in pvp a ranked system, not as a beginner or average player to go against the good players and leave because it sucks, or question the game's balance.

A less horse-simulator. Making Cryodill smaller by 5-10% might be nice, but might break the immersion, so while in Cryodill increase mounted speed by 15%, and as a counter, the Anti-Cavalry Caltrops spell to drain even more horse stamina.

Even balance in general would be better. I lose interest in playing my class when i see the enemy class holding 4 people and killing them too.

randomkeyhits · February 2018

There are three groups of players, those that will, those that won't, those that might, first is sorted, second will only ever enter a PvP zone to make an objective, say vigor and then gone forever. So that third group, the ones who might get the bug are the ones to worry about.

The best incentive for players who might be tempted to try PvP is a guild with a PvP element, not specific rewards. Having people around you to help you understand whats happening, provide advice and cover your back is invaluable. As you get things like rewards of the worthy simply by participating there is already enough there.

If an individual wants to come into Cyrodiil and play solo and do everything that way, more power to them but for the vast majority the emphasis should be on things that build on the teamwork concept.

Hurtfan · February 2018

Keep the gold vendor up all week and maybe change the rewards available 2x a week.

lillybit · February 2018

There is so little incentive to PVP, it's ridiculous. You can PVE without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil, especially as a magicka character, but the opposite it near impossible.

There isn't time to gather mats while trying to keep up with where the action is and no way to make any meaningful amout of gold so improving gear sucks. Even if you're spending AP on things to sell, you still need a guild with a good trader which you can't access from Cyrodiil.

I'm mostly a PVE player. I've only started Pvping in the last month's to get transmutation crystals (a whole other balance nightmare). But I get to the point where I have to leave and spend time pveing because I need mats for writs or gear or improvers or whatever.

Honestly, apart from the occasional skillpoint (which are few and far between now) there isn't really any incentive to go there, especially when console gets the next patch and crystals won't even be as plentiful. Even the golden isn't much of an incentive because it can be weeks between it having anything worthwhile stocked.

It's such a shame because I actually really enjoy it.

DieAlteHexe · February 2018

Narvuntien wrote: »

snip

The thing is... getting stomped doesn't matter in PVP, at least Cryodil PVP.... you are just a foot solider in an army. You'd death probably revealed a ganker to the group and you did a service.

The getting stomped doesn't really bother me. I know I stink at PvP. What does bother me is either being shouted at because I stink at PvP or the...errm...after party (y'know, all the celebrating for ganking a noob). Just don't have the desire to deal with that.

The support aspect is something I have considered but chances are...I'd still get shouted at. LOL!

Phlathead · February 2018

Turelus wrote: »

A bit late to the thread but here goes.

Adding rewards which incentivise people who are not interested in PvP to PvP isn't the correct way to improve the numbers. You're not getting people who want to or will enjoy being there and they will avoid PvP by any cheesy means possible to get their rewards and go again.

ZOS would be better off improving the PvP experience so that it's enjoyable to PvP and the rewards given are suited towards those playing for enjoyment of PvP combat and not just because they want/need a thing.

I agree. The rewards are already in place. It's the play itself and the added stress that is the barrier for many people.

Having said that, I do think a few changes could improve things:

Tougher walls/doors. It takes a while for people to organize and ride to a keep under siege. I know standing around manning a ram isn't fun, but lighting that fire and giving people a chance to ride to the defense should increase the action.
Underdog buffs. If I log into Cyrodiil and see my faction only has two keeps I'm probably just going to log back out. I need to know that even though my faction is under manned we'll still have a fighting chance. I believe WoW did this but I could be mistaken.
Increase experience gain. Provide a viable secondary way of gaining CP and it will incentivise players who are bored of PVE to try PVP. Tie it to taking/defending objectives though, everyone can participate and it won't feel like joining a bomb group is a requirement for meaningful gains.

TequilaFire · February 2018

I don't care if a PvEr doesn't want to PvP that's their business.
But lowering of the ranks required for vigor, clatrops, etc. is one example where PvP got nerfed for PvE.
Used to be your reward for reaching higher PvP ranks were these skills. They took them away from the higher ranks without replacing with anything other than cosmetic items.

coop500 · February 2018

PVP should be optional IMO, the drive for making it more and more required is just wrong, you'll just be inviting angry PVEers that don't want to be there.

The comparing PVP to PVE on how required it is is also silly, PVP is HARD as stated by many people here, everyday there's a PVPer bragging about how hard PVP is vs PVE and it's sadly true. If PVE is so easy, then that's what should be required over PVP.

PVP is hard enough that may players can't do it, not a matter of getting better, but some literally can't do it for various reasons. Meanwhile PVE has a limit, it can be hard but not super hard and just about anyone can do it.

PVE = a annoying timesink and grind for PVP players
PVP = a likely impossible hurdle that some will never pass due to the high ceiling.

But dumbing PVP down is not the answer, the answer is make it fun, not required. Making the rewards great is not a good option because then everyone will be pressured to do something they can't

Kolache · February 2018

I thought they already kinda boosted attendance with awesome geode campaign rewards and storage coffers for telvar stones. Feels like plenty of people in my home/guest campaigns after work each day?

Twenty0zTsunami · February 2018

idk I already feel like too many abilities, skill points etc are locked behind pvp.

coop500 · February 2018

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

idk I already feel like too many abilities, skill points etc are locked behind pvp.

Exactly, plenty of people are forced to deal with PVP people and considering how vicious that community usually is....