I thought this game might be different but...

Owondyah · February 2018

... it's same as many other new mmos (in one aspect).

Why making low level content if you are gonna make it trivial, challenging as it's being made for 5 year olds, sped through just to get it done etc etc... Can you just boost everyone to 50 so we play the stuff where, according to bloody everyone, "true fun starts".
For me, fun starts the moment I step into the game on my level 1 character, and I gotta tell you, dungeons are not fun here. They are just an insect on your forehead that you gotta get rid of for daily reward :P That shouldn't be a case.

Am I the only one craving about the leveling experience to be a damn trip to remember and NOT A DAMN OBSTACLE to get to "real fun"... ?

I find this game too damn epic lore-wise and design-wise to be treated like this. Seriously. I just finished a dungeon whose name I can't even remember because I was called out "boring" when I complained about how faceroll it is.
Literally, the BIGGEST challenge was to keep up with rest of group. Boss fights were trivial and even as my role ended up being healer I just switched to destro staff and did dps role. Why? Well, we had 700cp points guy in a group? Whose genious idea was that? Who thought that it's fun to faceroll stuff that's core thing about mmos. Dungeons should be place where ppl should take steps carefully, talk, plan, coordinate... yes EVEN on low levels.

WHY? Why are mmos built like this? This dungeon is damn epic. It looked awesome, bosses looked great and I'd REALLY LOVE to explore the dungeon on a way it's meant to be done.

Is there any way to join dungeon finder and being grouped up with people around the level that dungeon is meant to be played, and not facerolled?

P.S. - take this post however you want, rant, complaining... Idc. Just prove me wrong so I can stfu and enjoy the game. Honestly, I doubt you will.

[Edited for profanity]

VaranisArano · February 2018

If you want to run dungeons with people of about your level, I recommend that you ask in zone chat or a guild. Something like "Any new players want to practice group dungeons?" Might get you the response you want.

phaneub17_ESO · February 2018

Difficulty purist games don't last long in the MMO genre, you attract the hardcore players who really enjoy the challenge and the drudgery who are few in number, but you scare away everyone else which is the majority player base. The majority like their challenge to be optional and available in other means not the base game itself. Get to 50, power through Veteran dungeons, trials, and arena for a challenge.

VaranisArano · February 2018

The game also used to be much more linear and railroaded that would have given you the experience you seem to want. I prefer the freedom to go anywhere and do anything over the railroad that meant that early zones were pointless once outleveled.

PlagueSD · February 2018

lol, you want a challenging dungeon? go run Runes of Mazzatun, White Gold Tower, or Imperial City Prison with PUG and tell me how "faceroll" that is. (if you're not ESO+ you'll probably never get to run those as they are DLC dungeons)

This game's difficulty as been nerfed over the past few years because players kept complaining it was too "hard" I'd LOVE them to get rid of CP points, level scaling and bring back the VR levels.

SirAndy · February 2018

Why are you pugging dungeons with CP700 players while you are leveling up?

Just run them solo and then come back here and brag about it ...

Silver_Strider · February 2018

ESO is vastly disjointed in many ways.
Dungeons don't have much of a filter to them, outside of some level restrictions to access them but once you pass that restriction, there's nothing stopping you from going and doing the all the content content, meaning the mismatch of God tier players with lowbies in lowbie content and so on.

The dungeons themselves don't really help much either as they're either faceroll easy or infuriatingly hard, depending entirely on the dungeon and group members you have with you. Doing a normal Fungal Grotto 1 run with a group of CP720 people in end game gear is a very different experience than a group of level 10s using white, non-set gear drops that don't understand light attack spam is not very effective against 6+ mob groups.

The game does nothing to foster getting better at all outside of having some content being too difficult for the light attack spammers to deal with that they just cry nerf and ZOS eventually relents, making the game this faceroll mess you experienced.

Then, we have balance issues that are seemingly impossible for ZOS to figure out, despite having all the data in their hands. It's sad that one of the only ways to see if a tank build is up to snuff is if he can survive the axes in vet AA because nothing else in game is a good enough indicator for such, which speaks volumes of how poor balance is when nothing else in game is challenging enough to warrant needing actual good tanks vs just meat shields.

Game needs a lot of help.
#UnnerfDoshia

Sergykid · February 2018

this game in terms of visuals, exploration, questing, combat, and crafting, is 9/10. Every other thing, like pvp, or getting a decent amount of dps for even easiest vets, is meh.

DarcyMardin · February 2018

Try the new dungeon that was just released. Last night I watched Friday’s ESO Live dev dungeon run on YouTube. The devs who developed that dungeon wiped about 10 times trying to defeat the final boss in vet hard mode, and only completed the dungeon when they switched to vet easy mode. (It was hilarious, but also a good learning experience for viewers like me who did not know the mechanics).

https://youtu.be/qfKco0dBkfA

Reedx · February 2018

Would like to say just play another game, but its seems that you really like the elder scroll lore so how about you dont bother with group conent of the game while you are leveling up to lvl 50 simple enjoy the quests and the world as a solo player for the time being, and when you get to cp 160 you start doing group conent but not on normal setting but on veteran, i think that will be the best way to go for you

have a good one

KingYogi415 · February 2018

Vet hard mode dungeons is when the challenge starts.

Your gonna love VMA! Go run the normal version!

greylox · February 2018

As said above there's a alot of challenging content but I think delves and overland in general just needs a boost to difficulty, it's coma inducingly easy. I don't want hardcore difficulty but the main problem as I see it is every type of enemy has a standard health, resistances etc and it makes it too predictable. Sorta cut and paste with different skins and abilities. We need more surprises out in the wilds that challenge new players, world bosses alone aren't enough.

Gilvoth · February 2018

Owondyah wrote: »

... it's same as many other new mmos (in one aspect).

Why making low level content if you are gonna make it trivial, challenging as it's being made for 5 year olds, sped through just to get it done etc etc... Can you just boost everyone to 50 so we play the stuff where, according to bloody everyone, "true fun starts".
For me, fun starts the moment I step into the game on my level 1 character, and I gotta tell you, dungeons are not fun here. They are just an insect on your forehead that you gotta get rid of for daily reward :P That shouldn't be a case.

Am I the only one craving about the leveling experience to be a damn trip to remember and NOT A DAMN OBSTACLE to get to "real fun"... ?

I find this game too damn epic lore-wise and design-wise to be treated like this. Seriously. I just finished a dungeon whose name I can't even remember because I was called out "boring" when I complained about how faceroll it is.
Literally, the BIGGEST challenge was to keep up with rest of group. Boss fights were trivial and even as my role ended up being healer I just switched to destro staff and did dps role. Why? Well, we had 700cp points guy in a group? Whose genious idea was that? Who thought that it's fun to faceroll stuff that's core thing about mmos. Dungeons should be place where ppl should take steps carefully, talk, plan, coordinate... yes EVEN on low levels.

WHY? Why are mmos built like this? This dungeon is damn epic. It looked awesome, bosses looked great and I'd REALLY LOVE to explore the dungeon on a way it's meant to be done.

Is there any way to join dungeon finder and being grouped up with people around the level that dungeon is meant to be played, and not facerolled?

P.S. - take this post however you want, rant, complaining... Idc. Just prove me wrong so I can stfu and enjoy the game. Honestly, I doubt you will.

[Edited for profanity]

Very well written, and i agree with you.

fred4 · February 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

The dungeons themselves don't really help much either as they're either faceroll easy or infuriating hard, depending entirely on the dungeon and group members you have with you.

This.

The game does nothing to foster getting better at all outside of having some content be too difficult for the light attack spammers to deal with that they just cry nerf and ZOS eventually relents, making the game this faceroll mess you experienced.

And this.

Maelstrom first drove this home for me. Normal mode was made to teach me about the mechanics, but all I learnt was that spinning blades could be safely ignored. There were many mechanics that I merely understood to be visual effects, if I recognised them as a mechanic at all.

AhPook_Is_Here · February 2018

Just to make a point about the core of your post. The game play isn't really different at max level than it is at low level. If you aren't having fun now, it won't start later. Everything scales in this game, and the combat doesn't get more involving, just more disco lights.

MMOs are for people who really love to grind and do other repetitive daily tasks, with the perception of some reward for their time investment. If that sentence gets your excited, you may be in for the game of your life.

Owondyah · February 2018

I get the points of many people here, but very few people got my point. Kudos to everyone tho, I expected really hard "fanboy backlash" at me for such post.

Soon it's gonna be 17th year that I'm into mmos, I've seen everything this genre has to offer and played games that lots of people didn't even hear of.

All hard stuff you mentioned is level 50 stuff. I don't blame Zenimax, they are too late to change the core of industry now (gotta admit, they've did epic job in many other parts, apart from dungeons and trivial leveling).

Thing is, you don't "feel the road" anymore, it's just an obstacle to get to "fun stuff".
I enjoy the game, I REALLY DO. There is alot of stuff to do, insane crafting system, amazing combat, indepth build customization etc etc... I really see myself here in future.

I'm just disapointed that I don't get a real chance to explore one of the best leveling parts on the way it's should be done.
That's the part where I can blame Zenimax, as nobody but them, allowed mixed queues of higher levels with lower levels.

That thing should change as it does not contribute to new player experience at all. It totally ruined my dungeon experience and I really feel no incentive to play it more than once just to faceroll it for daily reward.

Once again, thanks for being awesome community and showing some understanding to a disappointed newb

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · February 2018

Owondyah wrote: »

I get the points of many people here, but very few people got my point. Kudos to everyone tho, I expected really hard "fanboy backlash" at me for such post.

Soon it's gonna be 17th year that I'm into mmos, I've seen everything this genre has to offer and played games that lots of people didn't even hear of.

All hard stuff you mentioned is level 50 stuff. I don't blame Zenimax, they are too late to change the core of industry now (gotta admit, they've did epic job in many other parts, apart from dungeons and trivial leveling).

Thing is, you don't "feel the road" anymore, it's just an obstacle to get to "fun stuff".
I enjoy the game, I REALLY DO. There is alot of stuff to do, insane crafting system, amazing combat, indepth build customization etc etc... I really see myself here in future.

I'm just disapointed that I don't get a real chance to explore one of the best leveling parts on the way it's should be done.
That's the part where I can blame Zenimax, as nobody but them, allowed mixed queues of higher levels with lower levels.

That thing should change as it does not contribute to new player experience at all. It totally ruined my dungeon experience and I really feel no incentive to play it more than once just to faceroll it for daily reward.

Once again, thanks for being awesome community and showing some understanding to a disappointed newb

Everything is battle scaled now in overland. Before this wasn't the case and there was a sense of progression but now at least this allows you to revisit old zones and still get experiencs, gear etc, this wasn't possible before.

Yes normal dungeons are easy but put 4 new level 10-20 In there and it'll be more challenging.

LordSemaj · February 2018

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Try the new dungeon that was just released. Last night I watched Friday’s ESO Live dev dungeon run on YouTube. The devs who developed that dungeon wiped about 10 times trying to defeat the final boss in vet hard mode, and only completed the dungeon when they switched to vet easy mode. (It was hilarious, but also a good learning experience for viewers like me who did not know the mechanics).
https://youtu.be/qfKco0dBkfA

Why does every promotion video show the bow user as though it's a real class?! It's a back bar item, stop confusing people!!

monktoasty · February 2018

This game changed because it was like you say. The typical can't play with friends because they lvl 40 and you are lvl 10.

They changed it to be much more open so every0ne can play together.

Sure..the game may get kind of easy..but that's what end game and vet stuff is for..to be challenged.

Ermiq · February 2018

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Just to make a point about the core of your post. The game play isn't really different at max level than it is at low level. If you aren't having fun now, it won't start later. Everything scales in this game, and the combat doesn't get more involving, just more disco lights.

MMOs are for people who really love to grind and do other repetitive daily tasks, with the perception of some reward for their time investment. If that sentence gets your excited, you may be in for the game of your life.

I would disagree.
When I was new to ESO and I was leveling my first character, I did questing in overlands (also delves and world bosses) and dungeons in the current zones (I like to complete all activities on the zone map). Then I reached 160CP and started to do other dungeons, I had tried vet dungeon by accident once and it was like punch in the face (I was a healer, btw).
And then the game have started to change. Gameplay on the start and gameplay on high-end are quite different things. Also, every class I've played was different on the start and then when I had unlocked all skill morphs. For example, I was disappointed with a warden class, I bearly reached 20 lvl and dropped it. But then I made a decision to level him to 50 after all, and now it's my favorite class, you know.

Sure, it's not like all new game, but... It's not the same as in the beginning.

disintegr8 · February 2018

Before 1T, you did not have to reach level 50 on a character to find a challenge. Each zone you entered offered a greater challenge than the one you just left - none of this same level opponents everywhere, beat one and you can beat them all.

To top it off, in my opinion the scaling overpowers lower level players and does so until you reach level 50.

And why does Dungeon Finder not put people of similar levels together?

A level 10 is not going to learn anything about a dungeon, or find it fun and challenging, if grouped with level 50's of even average ability and experience.

I think the group finder needs tweeking, maybe allow you to opt for a group of similar leveled people, or maybe only group non vets with non vets, or vets with vets.

Ermiq · February 2018

LordSemaj wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Try the new dungeon that was just released. Last night I watched Friday’s ESO Live dev dungeon run on YouTube. The devs who developed that dungeon wiped about 10 times trying to defeat the final boss in vet hard mode, and only completed the dungeon when they switched to vet easy mode. (It was hilarious, but also a good learning experience for viewers like me who did not know the mechanics).
https://youtu.be/qfKco0dBkfA

Why does every promotion video show the bow user as though it's a real class?! It's a back bar item, stop confusing people!!

By the way, there also was a warden with two-handed sword in Morrowind trailer. Kinda weird setup, IMHO.

disintegr8 wrote: »

Before 1T, you did not have to reach level 50 on a character to find a challenge. Each zone you entered offered a greater challenge than the one you just left - none of this same level opponents everywhere, beat one and you can beat them all.

To top it off, in my opinion the scaling overpowers lower level players and does so until you reach level 50.

And why does Dungeon Finder not put people of similar levels together?

A level 10 is not going to learn anything about a dungeon, or find it fun and challenging, if grouped with level 50's of even average ability and experience.

I think the group finder needs tweeking, maybe allow you to opt for a group of similar leveled people, or maybe only group non vets with non vets, or vets with vets.

Agree. Right now I did The Blessed Crucible with three new players. I queued as a tank on my alt, 40 lvl magwarden with random light armour and ice stuff, and I did all work there, I was a tank, I did 60% DPS and 80% HPS, I was killing adds on final boss (if you don't kill them, the boss will have a huge shield and it would become an endless fight unless someone kill those adds). I'm sure that run was looked like easy-squeezy for my group mates, but the truth is they didn't even understand what was going on.
And I almost sure that OP had the same experience as my three group mates in that random dungeon.

Runefang · February 2018

Ehhh its an MMO, they have very broad player bases so have to appeal to everybody.

Hard content is basically limited to just the below on Veteran made:

Maelstrom Arena
Aetherial Archive HM
Hel Ra Citadel HM
Halls of Fabrication HM and non-HM
Maw of Lorkhaj HM and non-HM
Asylum Sanctorium HM
Bloodroot Forge HM
Falkreath Hold HM
Ruins of Mazzatun HM
Imperial City Prison HM
White-Gold Tower HM and non-HM
Cradle of Shadows HM
Fang Lair
Scalecaller Peak
Dragonstar Arena
Some world bosses (soloing isn't my thing so couldn't tell you which ones are hard)

At least that's my feelings at the moment, that list has grown shorter every week since I started playing 6 months ago.

fred4 · February 2018

Owondyah wrote: »

All hard stuff you mentioned is level 50 stuff. I don't blame Zenimax, they are too late to change the core of industry now (gotta admit, they've did epic job in many other parts, apart from dungeons and trivial leveling).

Thing is, you don't "feel the road" anymore, it's just an obstacle to get to "fun stuff".

I started playing in the summer of 2015. At that time, as an EP character, you progressed from Stonefalls to Deshaan, to Shadowfen, to Eastmarch, to the Rift, or something like that. If you marched up the road from Stonefalls into the Rift, before you were sufficiently levelled, you got your ar*e handed to you. You could not access the other alliance areas at all, until they introduced Cadwell's Silver and Gold. You would not meet the other alliance players in overland, though. It was a separate instance, thus Elden Root and Wayrest were deserted, for example.

All of that changed with the One Tamriel update. The battle levelling was actually first introduced with Orsinium, which made that content super boring for me, but One Tamriel rolled it out everywhere. The upside is that it allows people of all levels to play together, and visit all areas. Deltia and Elloa just discussed this in their Timeout from Tamriel YouTube series, where Elloa succinctly stated that ESO is a horizontal levelling game, which allows you to choose what you want to do, rather than forcing you down a particular path by storyline and levelled zones. This wasn't always the case.

When there were still veteran ranks, Craglorn only became accessible once you reached those. It was hard, and it was group content, but it wasn't really vMA hard by the time I got to it. Once I reached about VR10, Craglorn became interesting to solo stuff in. The PvE in Imperial City was also much harder than it is now. At the time I could not bite off more than 3 ordinary mobs at once, if I was solo.

The flipside is that, before On Tamriel, once you outgrew a place like Stonefalls, it became ridiculously easy, much more than it is now. There was no reason to ever go back there, whereas now at least the world bosses have a fair difficulty again, and there are armor sets to farm. These didn't exist before One Tamriel. It was fun to travel the world, when that update was released, and the Dolmens were buzzing with players.

I liked One Tamriel. It was when duelling was introduced, but it also introduced some peculiarities in the dungeon combat balance that has made that content rather dull, in my opinion. The original dungeons were closer to what is now veteran mode, but the mobs had less health. I think the change was down to a perception that experienced groups would faceroll the content too quickly, but all the upped health has done is make it more tedious. I find this especially noticeable with the final bosses, who I believe also received a damage bonus. This has resulted in the peculiar situation where PuGs can faceroll everything in the lesser dungeons - perhaps more slowly than before, but without any real danger in what is now vet mode - until they are stymied by the final boss. I am thinking particularly of Direfrost Keep and Tempest Island that have this difficulty jump, which illustrates a misjudgement in the game balance, IMO.

I found the easier dungeons fun to solo, prior to One Tamriel. It was quicker to get through, and you were not either stymied by the damage or bored by the high health of the final boss, as you can be now. That was destroyed for me, as was a lot of fun PvE in Craglorn and Imperial City. It is true that we have world bosses now, but the sense of danger and wildness of Craglorn, for example, has been completely lost.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

Gah, You should’ve started at release. You would’ve had a different experience in terms of challenge and trivial concerns.

Ppl kept giving feedback to make this like other traditional server based rpgs so here we are.

Ermiq · February 2018

Runefang wrote: »

[*] Some world bosses (soloing isn't my thing so couldn't tell you which ones are hard)

Guar in East side of Deshaan
Werewolf in Eastmarch
Dubdil Alar Tower in Vvardenfell
Shipwreck (Siren) in Vvardenfell
Cave of Memories in Stonefalls
Shivering Shrine in Stonefalls
All of these WBs have a lot of adds, and it makes them quite hard to solo.

Iphoites · February 2018

Well, I've been in and out since Beta and can say I still don't know what's going on in most dungeons storywise

They'll probably be the way you said; totally random people grouped up mainly trying to get the daily rewards in a short time. (I do that myself too tbh) If you really wanna enjoy the content, lore, and (imo unmatched) quest writing, start with your Alliance's quests, do delves and just wander around. When you hit a high enough level, you can solo or duo some of the dungeons (on NM at least) and take your time. If you really want to do those dungeons and be immersed in the lore, try and find a friendly, casual guild where most people just try to have fun, OR an RP guild, that is if there are still active ones

The thing is besides the dungeons you always have the A-mazing quest lines for the various guilds, the main quests, DLCs... Chances are that you'll be way above 50 when you're done with all those and that is excluding the area side quests. I personally love exploring places and admire the scenery and how these areas look (esp.at nights, it's gorgeous). So before starting to rant, take your time and find other things you'll enjoy because the game is huge and offers a lot of content for most kinds of players. Also, as most people mentioned, what you see as a problem is not insoluble.

RobZha · February 2018

Would like the delve bosses to be harder. Am often in delves trying to get gear drops to either improve/sell or collect for a char, and I never feel like there's going to be a challenge at the boss when there should be really. I think the areas/design/atmospheres are amazing at times and enjoy going to all of the different delves I can find to see what they're like, but the bosses are definitely too easy and I think takes some of the fun away from it.

I often like playing solo as well if I'm not in pvp, so I think those delves should be one of the core parts of the game challenge wise too when I'm doing that.

Stroggnonimus · February 2018

Owondyah wrote: »

Dungeons should be place where ppl should take steps carefully, talk, plan, coordinate... yes EVEN on low levels.

What do you want to coordinate and plan when you dont know *** about the game ? Coordination and planning happens in the game, but in trials or vet hardmode dungeons, where 1. there is actual challenge 2. people know WHAT to coordinate, know how damage systems works, how sets synergise and so on. Tell me what do you plan to coordinate as a *** lvl 15 with 5 skills and thrash items picked up of some goblin ?

starkerealm · February 2018

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Difficulty purist games don't last long in the MMO genre, you attract the hardcore players who really enjoy the challenge and the drudgery who are few in number, but you scare away everyone else which is the majority player base. The majority like their challenge to be optional and available in other means not the base game itself. Get to 50, power through Veteran dungeons, trials, and arena for a challenge.

Yeah, I still remember when Funcom tried to market The Secret World as a hardcore MMO for players who wanted a Dark Souls style challenge. That game went into the ground fast, and the vast majority of the community was gone in months.

Sweetpea704 · February 2018

Find some like minded people in a guild that focuses on new players. Make friends. Three man some dungeons. Say up front you want to hear the content. Solo the public dungeons. They have pretty rich stories. My favorite is the Vile Manse. Solo world bosses. Plenty hard.

Sweetpea704