[PC NA] Why can't AD win?

Joy_Division · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere.

I disagree. People who are more interested in finding excuses to explain losing rather than honest self reflection is a much bigger problem.

maxjapank · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere. Matter of fact, just this am TKG is handing over scrolls from EP to DC when they are doing their daily PvDoor on Vivec. If you were unaware of this daily routine, you might want to speak to them about the "strategy" they are employing by "assisting" DC with keep holds from EP and "handing" over scrolls to them.....personally I see no strategic value in what they do, but to empower DC's point spread on a daily basis. But, never know....maybe they are simply unaware that is the effect of helping DC protect keeps and turning over EP scrolls to DC when they are the only ones on in force. Guess asking them would be a good start.

You are a complete ignorant fool. TKG is completely loyal to AD. We have been since we moved back to support a 1-bar pop, non-existent AD Oceanic faction. If you need any confirmation, just ask the other long-time standing AD Oceanic guilds like Queen's RAM and Nocturnal. We do not play for a campaign win. So sorry. But we have always helped AD take back the map as soon as we log on. We have always helped defeat any EP or DC emp pushes, like we did against EP last night.

Last night, what you saw was TKG grabbing scrolls to lure DC and EP to fight. We were not handing them over. The new patch just came out. We have things to test, see how our group synergy is working with the aoe cap removal. etc. etc.

TKG is a guild that enjoys fighting. We are looking for fights where the enemy outnumbers us by at least 2 to 1. If you are clueless as to strategy, then why don't you read @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO post again.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Organised groups help the map by relieving pressure on the front lines. Holding twice or 3 times their number at a back keep. (As an example)

Keeping large numbers on us up north means that there are less enemy pushing AD down south. When we hit Glade, many DC panic about losing their inner keeps. So they give up on Roe or Fare and come back north. When we hit Ash or Alesswell, it lets pugs get Roe back cause we effectively cut DC from getting to Roe to defend it.

You need to back up and think about things more before you go and start claiming baseless ***. And as much as we do help AD, we are not AD's personal army to do their bidding.

First of all snowflake, settle down the name calling if you want to be heard. Second, I observed what you as much as stated....and you went on to further explain how "not playing for the win" and "testing things with scrolls" were not really a bad thing (they most certainly are if they impact the alliance you play for negatively) so insulted me and went on to confirm exactly what my observations were.

My assessment stands- when you take up space in an alliance and DONT play to win or manage the map you are dead weight players and don't add to the overall effort. Players and guilds who do this waste the pop cap of that faction by showing up making excuses about why they don't support the war effort and camp win, as you just did.

You’ve had three different posters commenting on how our fighting outnumbered is contributing to our faction. And yet you think you know better about strat. You’ve also called us a pve door guild and then criticize us for fighting the higher pop. My guess is you are getting farmed by us and being salty. Or your just blowing steam out your ...

As with any assumption not only are you wrong, but spectacularly so. I responded to a question with my comments and back them up with observations of said guild over the last year or so. You on the other hand you come in spewing insults and then confirmed what I observed proceed to tell me now that I should pay attention to thee posters- because as we all know if you have your guild post in forums it becomes fact. No.

Next you will have one of them start "best guilds NA" thread and they will all come in under forum alts to post of the greatness of the guild, because no one ever sees through that one. Right.

Actually, your the one who started with assumptions. And try to tarnish a reputable guild based on your misconceptions. You should actually apologize to be honest. But let’s get one thing straight. You don’t pay for my subscription or for anyone’s game. So if you prefer to run around capping resources for the glory of a campaign win, by all means. Cause that is the exact reason DC manages to win these campaigns. Personally, I find running from resource to resource, from empty keep to empty keep just so our faction can win, boring. I log on to fight and have fun with my guild friends.

Sacredx · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

First of all snowflake, settle down the name calling if you want to be heard. Second, I observed what you as much as stated....and you went on to further explain how "not playing for the win" and "testing things with scrolls" were not really a bad thing (they most certainly are if they impact the alliance you play for negatively) so insulted me and went on to confirm exactly what my observations were.

My assessment stands- when you take up space in an alliance and DONT play to win or manage the map you are dead weight players and don't add to the overall effort. Players and guilds who do this waste the pop cap of that faction by showing up making excuses about why they don't support the war effort and camp win, as you just did.

First of all YOU don't make the rules. You are not god who decides what can and can't be done. Stop acting like one. People can do whetever they want in the game as long as they abide by the rules. Gank, smallscale, zerg, organised raids, take keeps, don't take keeps, 1vx, xv1. You can do whatever you want.

Second, winning the campaign is not something as simple as "guilds not contributing". There are many different factors such as faction player balancing, timezones, faction organisation, individual and group playstyles are just some of these. What objectives the player decides to have when they login to pvp. Is it to ball up in a pug, gank players on horse, capture resources before timer, capture keeps, hold keeps, hold large numbers while the rest of the faction push the map or just chill and have some fun. I can go on and on. There is no such thing as "everyone logs in to beat the score" and get 1st place.

Soul_Demon · February 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere.

I disagree. People who are more interested in finding excuses to explain losing rather than honest self reflection is a much bigger problem.

Indeed it is......but that wouldn't make us disagree but both be seeing the situation nearly the same. I went a bit further with it with the suggestions of any guild doing this stuff actually benefits the other alliances so much (where winning camps is concerned) that they in fact "play" for the oppositions and can be counted on to do these things benefiting them consistently. The entire time this is happening they are blocking other players from faction from coming into camp and actually playing for the win, so a double negative for the factions concerned.

Edit for: "First of all YOU don't make the rules. You are not god who decides what can and can't be done. Stop acting like one. People can do whetever they want in the game as long as they abide by the rules. Gank, smallscale, zerg, organised raids, take keeps, don't take keeps, 1vx, xv1. You can do whatever you want."

No, I am a poster who has responded to a question.....whereas you have forgotten that and are reaching for some way to salvage a poorly thought out 'counter' to an opinion you disagree with. You need to settle down and focus.

maxjapank · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere.

I disagree. People who are more interested in finding excuses to explain losing rather than honest self reflection is a much bigger problem.

Indeed it is......but that wouldn't make us disagree but both be seeing the situation nearly the same. I went a bit further with it with the suggestions of any guild doing this stuff actually benefits the other alliances so much (where winning camps is concerned) that they in fact "play" for the oppositions and can be counted on to do these things benefiting them consistently. The entire time this is happening they are blocking other players from faction from coming into camp and actually playing for the win, so a double negative for the factions concerned.

Edit for: "First of all YOU don't make the rules. You are not god who decides what can and can't be done. Stop acting like one. People can do whetever they want in the game as long as they abide by the rules. Gank, smallscale, zerg, organised raids, take keeps, don't take keeps, 1vx, xv1. You can do whatever you want."

No, I am a poster who has responded to a question.....whereas you have forgotten that and are reaching for some way to salvage a poorly thought out 'counter' to an opinion you disagree with. You need to settle down and focus.

Let me ask you a few questions so I am clear about you. I’m assuming you’re DC. But let me ask. What faction are you? What guild do you run with? What exact time zone do you play in? You can even give me a toon name. But you’re welcome to pass on that. And let me ask you what exactly are you referring to about “blocking” other players from playing? Oceanic is only 2 bars population. There is plenty of room for players to get in. Also, what would AD do if TKG weren’t on the map and they only had 1 bar pop to face both blue and red 2 bars? If you’ve played long enough and know anything about Oceanic time zone play, then you would know exactly where AD was before we re-rolled back there to help out.

Joy_Division · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere.

I disagree. People who are more interested in finding excuses to explain losing rather than honest self reflection is a much bigger problem.

Indeed it is......but that wouldn't make us disagree but both be seeing the situation nearly the same. I went a bit further with it with the suggestions of any guild doing this stuff actually benefits the other alliances so much (where winning camps is concerned) that they in fact "play" for the oppositions and can be counted on to do these things benefiting them consistently. The entire time this is happening they are blocking other players from faction from coming into camp and actually playing for the win, so a double negative for the factions concerned.

Edit for: "First of all YOU don't make the rules. You are not god who decides what can and can't be done. Stop acting like one. People can do whetever they want in the game as long as they abide by the rules. Gank, smallscale, zerg, organised raids, take keeps, don't take keeps, 1vx, xv1. You can do whatever you want."

No, I am a poster who has responded to a question.....whereas you have forgotten that and are reaching for some way to salvage a poorly thought out 'counter' to an opinion you disagree with. You need to settle down and focus.

Why are you quoting me about this "First of all YOU don;t make the rules" stuff? I didn't write that.

Soul_Demon · February 2018

maxjapank wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere.

I disagree. People who are more interested in finding excuses to explain losing rather than honest self reflection is a much bigger problem.

Indeed it is......but that wouldn't make us disagree but both be seeing the situation nearly the same. I went a bit further with it with the suggestions of any guild doing this stuff actually benefits the other alliances so much (where winning camps is concerned) that they in fact "play" for the oppositions and can be counted on to do these things benefiting them consistently. The entire time this is happening they are blocking other players from faction from coming into camp and actually playing for the win, so a double negative for the factions concerned.

Edit for: "First of all YOU don't make the rules. You are not god who decides what can and can't be done. Stop acting like one. People can do whetever they want in the game as long as they abide by the rules. Gank, smallscale, zerg, organised raids, take keeps, don't take keeps, 1vx, xv1. You can do whatever you want."

No, I am a poster who has responded to a question.....whereas you have forgotten that and are reaching for some way to salvage a poorly thought out 'counter' to an opinion you disagree with. You need to settle down and focus.

Let me ask you a few questions so I am clear about you. I’m assuming you’re DC. But let me ask. What faction are you? What guild do you run with? What exact time zone do you play in? You can even give me a toon name. But you’re welcome to pass on that. And let me ask you what exactly are you referring to about “blocking” other players from playing? Oceanic is only 2 bars population. There is plenty of room for players to get in. Also, what would AD do if TKG weren’t on the map and they only had 1 bar pop to face both blue and red 2 bars? If you’ve played long enough and know anything about Oceanic time zone play, then you would know exactly where AD was before we re-rolled back there to help out.

No, I think you need to be clear about the TOPIC of this thread and not me. When players from your faction wonder what is going on and ask in forums, they usually get an answer. As for me I don't play DC and its NA Vivec Central time zone. The rest has been quite painstakingly kept unknown since beta and isn't about to change now. The blocking comment was in reference to the prime time pop caps and players waiting in que.....if you have a too long que with multi faction play now the players often simply change to lowest que population and play there.

The impact is of "blocking" players who wish to come into campaign to play for win. If you are not capped but two bars, that translates to 50% of the faction pop being unconcerned with winning, and others changing over to other alliances to "balance" the pops. On a side note, shouldn't your GM or Raid Leads be explaining this to you? Certainly you know this, right and that was simple troll?

As far as what AD would do, who cares? Players who are not running organized will "go with the flow" of play.....if that is hitting random things on the map and holding a resource for an hour, they do that....if its a group pushing the map for the win, they are often left with "bait" in their faces by those players that they are most likely hit next as it is right in front of them, benefiting the faction for a win. They are 'steered' to valuable targets through the other players movements on map if you will, its not terribly complicated or difficult to do. I will and would assume that is what AD would do if you were not there.

Edit for: "Why are you quoting me about this "First of all YOU don;t make the rules" stuff? I didn't write that."
I know you didn't, I 'edited' to respond to the other comment as it was posted just before mine and didn't want to use two separate posts to respond to it..as I did here. Trying to keep my posting count down.

CyrusArya · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

My assessment stands- when you take up space in an alliance and DONT play to win or manage the map you are dead weight players and don't add to the overall effort. Players and guilds who do this waste the pop cap of that faction by showing up making excuses about why they don't support the war effort and camp win, as you just did.

First of all, bare in mind some players do not care for winning the campaign. Far as I'm concerned, campaign scoring is just a matter of who zergs harder, zergs more often, and is more fond of PvDoor. Actual PvPers who play for PvP tend to not care for such meek objectives. That being said, your assessment is wrong. Cyrodiil is a closed system when the pops are locked. A zero sum game of sorts. If you think that a 4 man small scale group that is consistently keeping 10-15 ppl occupied or in constant transit status, or a large scale raid guild such as Dracarys or TKG that is doing the same to 30-40 ppl, is dead weight and doesn't have any influence on campaign scoring....well you need to hop off the siege for a bit and develop some critical thinking skills.

Soul_Demon · February 2018

CyrusArya wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

My assessment stands- when you take up space in an alliance and DONT play to win or manage the map you are dead weight players and don't add to the overall effort. Players and guilds who do this waste the pop cap of that faction by showing up making excuses about why they don't support the war effort and camp win, as you just did.

First of all, bare in mind some players do not care for winning the campaign. Far as I'm concerned, campaign scoring is just a matter of who zergs harder, zergs more often, and is more fond of PvDoor. Actual PvPers who play for PvP tend to not care for such meek objectives. That being said, your assessment is wrong. Cyrodiil is a closed system when the pops are locked. A zero sum game of sorts. If you think that a 4 man small scale group that is consistently keeping 10-15 ppl occupied or in constant transit status, or a large scale raid guild such as Dracarys or TKG that is doing the same to 30-40 ppl, is dead weight and doesn't have any influence on campaign scoring....well you need to hop off the siege for a bit and develop some critical thinking skills.

Well, it really depends on the PPH you are putting up for the faction.....if your points per hour score is high, you are helping the alliance....if you are using some subjective "we kept them busy for a long time" as scorecard, you might be missing the bigger picture of actual points scored for the alliance per hour. Maybe those groups are focused on stopping the transit to assist others in the point gains, and that would be a great thing for sure. In those cases very helpful for win. But if it is entirely random and accomplishes nothing more than having new players gravitate there to be farmed they were no real threat to win in first place.

This is usually where someone claims they really don't care about score per say, but are just looking for good fights. Convenient way to dispel the way the game scores and factions win camps and great way to not be subject to analyzing the actual performance as it relates to wins. How does one really assess that in a game that has a score? You don't really.....but it sounds like you are really doing great things if explained like that and like you really are hardcore gamers just going from the most challenging situations to the next. But, that isn't what is happening over all for the alliance those teams play on in many cases. Tough to "show" what could have been or might have been accomplished, if only they wanted to win....and keep in mind right now its with points and not AP earned.

maxjapank · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere.

I disagree. People who are more interested in finding excuses to explain losing rather than honest self reflection is a much bigger problem.

Indeed it is......but that wouldn't make us disagree but both be seeing the situation nearly the same. I went a bit further with it with the suggestions of any guild doing this stuff actually benefits the other alliances so much (where winning camps is concerned) that they in fact "play" for the oppositions and can be counted on to do these things benefiting them consistently. The entire time this is happening they are blocking other players from faction from coming into camp and actually playing for the win, so a double negative for the factions concerned.

Edit for: "First of all YOU don't make the rules. You are not god who decides what can and can't be done. Stop acting like one. People can do whetever they want in the game as long as they abide by the rules. Gank, smallscale, zerg, organised raids, take keeps, don't take keeps, 1vx, xv1. You can do whatever you want."

No, I am a poster who has responded to a question.....whereas you have forgotten that and are reaching for some way to salvage a poorly thought out 'counter' to an opinion you disagree with. You need to settle down and focus.

Let me ask you a few questions so I am clear about you. I’m assuming you’re DC. But let me ask. What faction are you? What guild do you run with? What exact time zone do you play in? You can even give me a toon name. But you’re welcome to pass on that. And let me ask you what exactly are you referring to about “blocking” other players from playing? Oceanic is only 2 bars population. There is plenty of room for players to get in. Also, what would AD do if TKG weren’t on the map and they only had 1 bar pop to face both blue and red 2 bars? If you’ve played long enough and know anything about Oceanic time zone play, then you would know exactly where AD was before we re-rolled back there to help out.

No, I think you need to be clear about the TOPIC of this thread and not me. When players from your faction wonder what is going on and ask in forums, they usually get an answer. As for me I don't play DC and its NA Vivec Central time zone. The rest has been quite painstakingly kept unknown since beta and isn't about to change now. The blocking comment was in reference to the prime time pop caps and players waiting in que.....if you have a too long que with multi faction play now the players often simply change to lowest que population and play there.

The impact is of "blocking" players who wish to come into campaign to play for win. If you are not capped but two bars, that translates to 50% of the faction pop being unconcerned with winning, and others changing over to other alliances to "balance" the pops. On a side note, shouldn't your GM or Raid Leads be explaining this to you? Certainly you know this, right and that was simple troll?

As far as what AD would do, who cares? Players who are not running organized will "go with the flow" of play.....if that is hitting random things on the map and holding a resource for an hour, they do that....if its a group pushing the map for the win, they are often left with "bait" in their faces by those players that they are most likely hit next as it is right in front of them, benefiting the faction for a win. They are 'steered' to valuable targets through the other players movements on map if you will, its not terribly complicated or difficult to do. I will and would assume that is what AD would do if you were not there.

I am very clear on the topic. It was you who decided to accuse TKG of passing scrolls from one enemy faction to another. Which isn’t true. And you who accused us of not being loyal to AD. Which is also untrue. Still waiting on that apology, too. Cause it’s plain up lies.

You also don’t seem to know anything about Oceanic time zone play or how AD was before we re-rolled back there. They were non existent. They were pushed so hard to their gates by both red and blue that most logged off. You can even read how one Oceanic player who plays a couple of hours before we log on says it is still a struggle during that period.

It’s always been the case of players like you, usually NA prime time players who want to talk about “nightcapping” , factions winning campaigns through unbalanced pops through pve door. Or complaining about a guild fighting outnumbered, rather than capping resources back for points. It’s uncanny how you can in one post claim we pve door and criticize us. And then in another post claim we aren’t contributing because we are busy fighting and not pve dooring stuff for points.

Oceanic players have always balanced their time zone for Oceanic players. We enjoy fighting each other and will continue to do so. And as an aside, we probably don’t do much in tipping the points of the campaign for any one faction. So if AD is losing the campaign, it’s not because of Oceanic players.

You really should whisper me your toons name. Cause you sound just like a couple of players who are just plain salty at our guild. No real interest in anything other than trolling us.

Satiar · February 2018

Winning campaigns lost its meaning to me with the resource changes. Not immediately--I pushed hard to win a few campaigns after that--but over time it became clear it was simply too much work and too little reward. I had my raid split into 2s and 3s across the map, hour by hour, to secure resources. The scoring system made assaulting a well-defended keep far less profitable than simply avoiding combat and taking resources.

It would be different if winning meant something. If the winners got Master weapons, or something like that. Exclusive campaign win furnishings, costumes, I dunno. But as is, the reward for winning is so low versus what you must do to win, and I can`t blame people who would rather fight than take resources all night.

Soul_Demon · February 2018

maxjapank wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere.

I disagree. People who are more interested in finding excuses to explain losing rather than honest self reflection is a much bigger problem.

Indeed it is......but that wouldn't make us disagree but both be seeing the situation nearly the same. I went a bit further with it with the suggestions of any guild doing this stuff actually benefits the other alliances so much (where winning camps is concerned) that they in fact "play" for the oppositions and can be counted on to do these things benefiting them consistently. The entire time this is happening they are blocking other players from faction from coming into camp and actually playing for the win, so a double negative for the factions concerned.

Edit for: "First of all YOU don't make the rules. You are not god who decides what can and can't be done. Stop acting like one. People can do whetever they want in the game as long as they abide by the rules. Gank, smallscale, zerg, organised raids, take keeps, don't take keeps, 1vx, xv1. You can do whatever you want."

No, I am a poster who has responded to a question.....whereas you have forgotten that and are reaching for some way to salvage a poorly thought out 'counter' to an opinion you disagree with. You need to settle down and focus.

Let me ask you a few questions so I am clear about you. I’m assuming you’re DC. But let me ask. What faction are you? What guild do you run with? What exact time zone do you play in? You can even give me a toon name. But you’re welcome to pass on that. And let me ask you what exactly are you referring to about “blocking” other players from playing? Oceanic is only 2 bars population. There is plenty of room for players to get in. Also, what would AD do if TKG weren’t on the map and they only had 1 bar pop to face both blue and red 2 bars? If you’ve played long enough and know anything about Oceanic time zone play, then you would know exactly where AD was before we re-rolled back there to help out.

No, I think you need to be clear about the TOPIC of this thread and not me. When players from your faction wonder what is going on and ask in forums, they usually get an answer. As for me I don't play DC and its NA Vivec Central time zone. The rest has been quite painstakingly kept unknown since beta and isn't about to change now. The blocking comment was in reference to the prime time pop caps and players waiting in que.....if you have a too long que with multi faction play now the players often simply change to lowest que population and play there.

The impact is of "blocking" players who wish to come into campaign to play for win. If you are not capped but two bars, that translates to 50% of the faction pop being unconcerned with winning, and others changing over to other alliances to "balance" the pops. On a side note, shouldn't your GM or Raid Leads be explaining this to you? Certainly you know this, right and that was simple troll?

As far as what AD would do, who cares? Players who are not running organized will "go with the flow" of play.....if that is hitting random things on the map and holding a resource for an hour, they do that....if its a group pushing the map for the win, they are often left with "bait" in their faces by those players that they are most likely hit next as it is right in front of them, benefiting the faction for a win. They are 'steered' to valuable targets through the other players movements on map if you will, its not terribly complicated or difficult to do. I will and would assume that is what AD would do if you were not there.

I am very clear on the topic. It was you who decided to accuse TKG of passing scrolls from one enemy faction to another. Which isn’t true. And you who accused us of not being loyal to AD. Which is also untrue. Still waiting on that apology, too. Cause it’s plain up lies.

You also don’t seem to know anything about Oceanic time zone play or how AD was before we re-rolled back there. They were non existent. They were pushed so hard to their gates by both red and blue that most logged off. You can even read how one Oceanic player who plays a couple of hours before we log on says it is still a struggle during that period.

It’s always been the case of players like you, usually NA prime time players who want to talk about “nightcapping” , factions winning campaigns through unbalanced pops through pve door. Or complaining about a guild fighting outnumbered, rather than capping resources back for points. It’s uncanny how you can in one post claim we pve door and criticize us. And then in another post claim we aren’t contributing because we are busy fighting and not pve dooring stuff for points.

Oceanic players have always balanced their time zone for Oceanic players. We enjoy fighting each other and will continue to do so. And as an aside, we probably don’t do much in tipping the points of the campaign for any one faction. So if AD is losing the campaign, it’s not because of Oceanic players.

You really should whisper me your toons name. Cause you sound just like a couple of players who are just plain salty at our guild. No real interest in anything other than trolling us.

Well, so much there explains why I am explaining chess and you are seeing checkers. I am not sure further explanations are going to even be read, much less assessed for relevance to conversation. Guess I will see you out there pushing the "highest pop" during those times and "trying out skills from patch" on scroll turnovers. Good on you.

Jadokis · February 2018

Satiar wrote: »

Winning campaigns lost its meaning to me with the resource changes. Not immediately--I pushed hard to win a few campaigns after that--but over time it became clear it was simply too much work and too little reward. I had my raid split into 2s and 3s across the map, hour by hour, to secure resources. The scoring system made assaulting a well-defended keep far less profitable than simply avoiding combat and taking resources.

It would be different if winning meant something. If the winners got Master weapons, or something like that. Exclusive campaign win furnishings, costumes, I dunno. But as is, the reward for winning is so low versus what you must do to win, and I can`t blame people who would rather fight than take resources all night.

It's really bad. If that's your goal you barely have time to get back together as a raid and go to a keep or a fight somewhere on the map before you have to go back to resources for the next eval.

Also with resources being worth so much, you go and take one and a 20man raid comes out to fight you if it's an EP or DC resource. It doesn't add an objective for smaller groups to fight over because of not only that, but it takes a minute or less to cap them so there's no point in fighting over them for the other 59 minutes before evaluation.

Rohamad_Ali · February 2018

Everyone who logs into their AD characters and attempts to help Us when we are down is very much appreciated by many of Us who do not care about drama and such . Please do not take the ridicule of a few as the feelings of the faction entirely . While it may be nice to have loyal AD only players all the time it is not a realistic expectation of all fellow players looking for more even fights . There will be times when AD is doing fine and they will go back to helping their other faction that is getting too much pressure with their departure . Just know help is appreciated and thank you for the time you put in to make AD characters to help ! That is all .

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 2018

@Soul_Demon.
RE: PPH
Back at the launch of the game when the campaigns were worth winning strategy played a huge role in campaign scoring.
I don't know if you experienced these times because the comments you have made so far seem to show little consideration for tactics. (Not being rude just from my understanding of what you have posted)

1. All factions have a finite number of players. If a % of your population is keeping a larger % of the enemy population busy that gives the rest an advantage. It's not the fault of the few that the many do not capitalise on that advantage. For example if I take Faregyl then I would expect it to be easier for EP to Push BRK, SEJ, Alessia because I've pulled the majority of AD away from that front line to defend. This only influences EP's score by 1 point but enables the rest of the faction to secure 6-12 points easier than before. If they are unable to do that it is them who need to make a change.

2. Scrolls are worth 2 points. (Technically 3 if in the hands of the leading faction). If I give DC a scroll. They will generally be focused by both factions (because scrolls are pugnip). This focus should take the heat off my faction and allow us to capitalise on the additional points of keeps and resources (far more than scroll value currently).
Therefor the play TKG made was actually statistically more beneficial to the faction. Not only does it allow AD to push further but also takes pressure off AD keeps because they aren't as worth taking in pug eyes because there is no scroll.

I can go more in depth into factional scoring tactics should you wish but I think that proves most points people are making here.

Soul_Demon · February 2018

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Soul_Demon.
RE: PPH
Back at the launch of the game when the campaigns were worth winning strategy played a huge role in campaign scoring.
I don't know if you experienced these times because the comments you have made so far seem to show little consideration for tactics. (Not being rude just from my understanding of what you have posted)

1. All factions have a finite number of players. If a % of your population is keeping a larger % of the enemy population busy that gives the rest an advantage. It's not the fault of the few that the many do not capitalise on that advantage. For example if I take Faregyl then I would expect it to be easier for EP to Push BRK, SEJ, Alessia because I've pulled the majority of AD away from that front line to defend. This only influences EP's score by 1 point but enables the rest of the faction to secure 6-12 points easier than before. If they are unable to do that it is them who need to make a change.

2. Scrolls are worth 2 points. (Technically 3 if in the hands of the leading faction). If I give DC a scroll. They will generally be focused by both factions (because scrolls are pugnip). This focus should take the heat off my faction and allow us to capitalise on the additional points of keeps and resources (far more than scroll value currently).
Therefor the play TKG made was actually statistically more beneficial to the faction. Not only does it allow AD to push further but also takes pressure off AD keeps because they aren't as worth taking in pug eyes because there is no scroll.

I can go more in depth into factional scoring tactics should you wish but I think that proves most points people are making here.

Not really......matter of fact all you did was recognize that arbitrary "holding players" in a spot only helps if it is capitalized on. In my experience players who do not coordinate don't get much capitalization from any faction loose players....ever. So if you really explained/showed anything its the ridiculousness of "making a move" where you expect others to actually be the ones who put points up. Either you do it or it doesn't get done, when others do it 'by accident' like steering loose players, its a bonus.

And this is curious to me "when the campaigns were worth winning" smacks of irony when you consider what I have been speaking of is winning vs wasting time and resources to do anything else. I personally have and will never engage in a win/score endeavor without the express intent to win. Who would play to lose and more importantly, why?

Subversus · February 2018

Now these threads are funny cause on EU Vivec AD just can't stop winning

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Soul_Demon.
RE: PPH
Back at the launch of the game when the campaigns were worth winning strategy played a huge role in campaign scoring.
I don't know if you experienced these times because the comments you have made so far seem to show little consideration for tactics. (Not being rude just from my understanding of what you have posted)

1. All factions have a finite number of players. If a % of your population is keeping a larger % of the enemy population busy that gives the rest an advantage. It's not the fault of the few that the many do not capitalise on that advantage. For example if I take Faregyl then I would expect it to be easier for EP to Push BRK, SEJ, Alessia because I've pulled the majority of AD away from that front line to defend. This only influences EP's score by 1 point but enables the rest of the faction to secure 6-12 points easier than before. If they are unable to do that it is them who need to make a change.

2. Scrolls are worth 2 points. (Technically 3 if in the hands of the leading faction). If I give DC a scroll. They will generally be focused by both factions (because scrolls are pugnip). This focus should take the heat off my faction and allow us to capitalise on the additional points of keeps and resources (far more than scroll value currently).
Therefor the play TKG made was actually statistically more beneficial to the faction. Not only does it allow AD to push further but also takes pressure off AD keeps because they aren't as worth taking in pug eyes because there is no scroll.

I can go more in depth into factional scoring tactics should you wish but I think that proves most points people are making here.

Not really......matter of fact all you did was recognize that arbitrary "holding players" in a spot only helps if it is capitalized on. In my experience players who do not coordinate don't get much capitalization from any faction loose players....ever. So if you really explained/showed anything its the ridiculousness of "making a move" where you expect others to actually be the ones who put points up. Either you do it or it doesn't get done, when others do it 'by accident' like steering loose players, its a bonus.

And this is curious to me "when the campaigns were worth winning" smacks of irony when you consider what I have been speaking of is winning vs wasting time and resources to do anything else. I personally have and will never engage in a win/score endeavor without the express intent to win. Who would play to lose and more importantly, why?

@Soul_Demon as other players have explained to you, every players goals differ. People generally play to win yes but winning can constitute a vast array of outcomes.
for example to different players simply having fun and socialising may be what they want to "win". Scoring makes no difference to this and its based on their social interactions of the night.
For others they may wish to challenge themselves to accomplish a certain goal, for example to fight extremely outnumbered fights.

hopefully this helps your understanding improve.

Soul_Demon · February 2018

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Soul_Demon.
RE: PPH
Back at the launch of the game when the campaigns were worth winning strategy played a huge role in campaign scoring.
I don't know if you experienced these times because the comments you have made so far seem to show little consideration for tactics. (Not being rude just from my understanding of what you have posted)

1. All factions have a finite number of players. If a % of your population is keeping a larger % of the enemy population busy that gives the rest an advantage. It's not the fault of the few that the many do not capitalise on that advantage. For example if I take Faregyl then I would expect it to be easier for EP to Push BRK, SEJ, Alessia because I've pulled the majority of AD away from that front line to defend. This only influences EP's score by 1 point but enables the rest of the faction to secure 6-12 points easier than before. If they are unable to do that it is them who need to make a change.

2. Scrolls are worth 2 points. (Technically 3 if in the hands of the leading faction). If I give DC a scroll. They will generally be focused by both factions (because scrolls are pugnip). This focus should take the heat off my faction and allow us to capitalise on the additional points of keeps and resources (far more than scroll value currently).
Therefor the play TKG made was actually statistically more beneficial to the faction. Not only does it allow AD to push further but also takes pressure off AD keeps because they aren't as worth taking in pug eyes because there is no scroll.

I can go more in depth into factional scoring tactics should you wish but I think that proves most points people are making here.

Not really......matter of fact all you did was recognize that arbitrary "holding players" in a spot only helps if it is capitalized on. In my experience players who do not coordinate don't get much capitalization from any faction loose players....ever. So if you really explained/showed anything its the ridiculousness of "making a move" where you expect others to actually be the ones who put points up. Either you do it or it doesn't get done, when others do it 'by accident' like steering loose players, its a bonus.

And this is curious to me "when the campaigns were worth winning" smacks of irony when you consider what I have been speaking of is winning vs wasting time and resources to do anything else. I personally have and will never engage in a win/score endeavor without the express intent to win. Who would play to lose and more importantly, why?

@Soul_Demon as other players have explained to you, every players goals differ. People generally play to win yes but winning can constitute a vast array of outcomes.
for example to different players simply having fun and socialising may be what they want to "win". Scoring makes no difference to this and its based on their social interactions of the night.
For others they may wish to challenge themselves to accomplish a certain goal, for example to fight extremely outnumbered fights.

hopefully this helps your understanding improve.

Ah, I see the problem here.....its the word "Win".

To win the way I use the word is being recognized by the game as the winning faction with end of camp score. Now if you score differently and have another means to determine a "win" or "success" in something....by all means embrace that other meaning. However if I don't agree with those other definitions of "win" of course this doesn't mean that I am here to be convinced of the validity of those claims. The question posed by the OP was why wasn't AD 'winning' camps, and if he or she meant one of the other definitions, clearly I am the one who misinterpreted the question.

But with the wording of it " Why can't AD win? " in context with the immediate explanations offered by them it seems that indeed was what was being used as the definition of "win".

Telel · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere. Matter of fact, just this am TKG is handing over scrolls from EP to DC when they are doing their daily PvDoor on Vivec. If you were unaware of this daily routine, you might want to speak to them about the "strategy" they are employing by "assisting" DC with keep holds from EP and "handing" over scrolls to them.....personally I see no strategic value in what they do, but to empower DC's point spread on a daily basis. But, never know....maybe they are simply unaware that is the effect of helping DC protect keeps and turning over EP scrolls to DC when they are the only ones on in force. Guess asking them would be a good start.

You are a complete ignorant fool. TKG is completely loyal to AD. We have been since we moved back to support a 1-bar pop, non-existent AD Oceanic faction. If you need any confirmation, just ask the other long-time standing AD Oceanic guilds like Queen's RAM and Nocturnal. We do not play for a campaign win. So sorry. But we have always helped AD take back the map as soon as we log on. We have always helped defeat any EP or DC emp pushes, like we did against EP last night.

Last night, what you saw was TKG grabbing scrolls to lure DC and EP to fight. We were not handing them over. The new patch just came out. We have things to test, see how our group synergy is working with the aoe cap removal. etc. etc.

TKG is a guild that enjoys fighting. We are looking for fights where the enemy outnumbers us by at least 2 to 1. If you are clueless as to strategy, then why don't you read @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO post again.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Organised groups help the map by relieving pressure on the front lines. Holding twice or 3 times their number at a back keep. (As an example)

Keeping large numbers on us up north means that there are less enemy pushing AD down south. When we hit Glade, many DC panic about losing their inner keeps. So they give up on Roe or Fare and come back north. When we hit Ash or Alesswell, it lets pugs get Roe back cause we effectively cut DC from getting to Roe to defend it.

You need to back up and think about things more before you go and start claiming baseless ***. And as much as we do help AD, we are not AD's personal army to do their bidding.

First of all snowflake, settle down the name calling if you want to be heard. Second, I observed what you as much as stated....and you went on to further explain how "not playing for the win" and "testing things with scrolls" were not really a bad thing (they most certainly are if they impact the alliance you play for negatively) so insulted me and went on to confirm exactly what my observations were.

My assessment stands- when you take up space in an alliance and DONT play to win or manage the map you are dead weight players and don't add to the overall effort. Players and guilds who do this waste the pop cap of that faction by showing up making excuses about why they don't support the war effort and camp win, as you just did.

Khajiit has a question for you since you're so conscerned about everyone pulling their weight and being useful.

During those hours when AD is at its lowest population, and is in dire need of people leading groups, how many people are in the PUG you lead to help train up new PVPers and hit objectives?

VaranisArano · February 2018

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's the problem. EP has Black Boot and Faregyl, and where is AD? Rayles.

I assume there are EP players trying to win the campaign, it must be frustrating to see DC gain 10-20 points every hour because EP is taking points off AD but not enough to catch DC.

Major Guilds taking BM, while Chalman stays Blue hour after hour, seeing the DC lead grow by 100 points a day.

DC is leading so maybe EP should attack Warden when AD have Rayles?

From your lips to EP pug ears. Points are nice and all, but not when the team in first is getting farther ahead.

VaranisArano · February 2018

Since I'm a staunch EP player, I can't speak to anything particular to AD but I can say this.

If you want to win campaigns, you have to do what it takes to win campaigns.

"I'm just looking for good fights" doesn't win campaigns.
"I'm just looking to kill players and have fun" doesn't win campaigns.
"I'm here to gank/bomb/farm Alessia bridge/run the Chalman-Bleakers-Aleswell loop for hours" doesn't win campaigns.
Those are all valid playstyles in Cyrodiil, but they don't win campaigns.

Take a real serious look at how campaigns are won. EP won 7 or 8 campaigns on Vivec in a row. DC won the last two(?) and is winning this one. Don't think about it as something that AD fundamentally lacks. Think about it as something that EP and now DC were doing right. Figure out the strategies by which guilds, PUGs, small mans, and solos win campaigns as a faction and copy that.

If you aren't willing to actively pursue campaign objectives and do what it takes to win a campaign over an above just having a good time at PVP, you won't win campaigns.

maxjapank · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Guilds like TKG on AD actually play for DC- guessing that is a major problem for your faction actually winning any camps. Large, present guilds that don't actually play for you faction will inevitably fail to push for the win if their loyalties lay elsewhere.

I disagree. People who are more interested in finding excuses to explain losing rather than honest self reflection is a much bigger problem.

Indeed it is......but that wouldn't make us disagree but both be seeing the situation nearly the same. I went a bit further with it with the suggestions of any guild doing this stuff actually benefits the other alliances so much (where winning camps is concerned) that they in fact "play" for the oppositions and can be counted on to do these things benefiting them consistently. The entire time this is happening they are blocking other players from faction from coming into camp and actually playing for the win, so a double negative for the factions concerned.

Edit for: "First of all YOU don't make the rules. You are not god who decides what can and can't be done. Stop acting like one. People can do whetever they want in the game as long as they abide by the rules. Gank, smallscale, zerg, organised raids, take keeps, don't take keeps, 1vx, xv1. You can do whatever you want."

No, I am a poster who has responded to a question.....whereas you have forgotten that and are reaching for some way to salvage a poorly thought out 'counter' to an opinion you disagree with. You need to settle down and focus.

Let me ask you a few questions so I am clear about you. I’m assuming you’re DC. But let me ask. What faction are you? What guild do you run with? What exact time zone do you play in? You can even give me a toon name. But you’re welcome to pass on that. And let me ask you what exactly are you referring to about “blocking” other players from playing? Oceanic is only 2 bars population. There is plenty of room for players to get in. Also, what would AD do if TKG weren’t on the map and they only had 1 bar pop to face both blue and red 2 bars? If you’ve played long enough and know anything about Oceanic time zone play, then you would know exactly where AD was before we re-rolled back there to help out.

No, I think you need to be clear about the TOPIC of this thread and not me. When players from your faction wonder what is going on and ask in forums, they usually get an answer. As for me I don't play DC and its NA Vivec Central time zone. The rest has been quite painstakingly kept unknown since beta and isn't about to change now. The blocking comment was in reference to the prime time pop caps and players waiting in que.....if you have a too long que with multi faction play now the players often simply change to lowest que population and play there.

The impact is of "blocking" players who wish to come into campaign to play for win. If you are not capped but two bars, that translates to 50% of the faction pop being unconcerned with winning, and others changing over to other alliances to "balance" the pops. On a side note, shouldn't your GM or Raid Leads be explaining this to you? Certainly you know this, right and that was simple troll?

As far as what AD would do, who cares? Players who are not running organized will "go with the flow" of play.....if that is hitting random things on the map and holding a resource for an hour, they do that....if its a group pushing the map for the win, they are often left with "bait" in their faces by those players that they are most likely hit next as it is right in front of them, benefiting the faction for a win. They are 'steered' to valuable targets through the other players movements on map if you will, its not terribly complicated or difficult to do. I will and would assume that is what AD would do if you were not there.

I am very clear on the topic. It was you who decided to accuse TKG of passing scrolls from one enemy faction to another. Which isn’t true. And you who accused us of not being loyal to AD. Which is also untrue. Still waiting on that apology, too. Cause it’s plain up lies.

You also don’t seem to know anything about Oceanic time zone play or how AD was before we re-rolled back there. They were non existent. They were pushed so hard to their gates by both red and blue that most logged off. You can even read how one Oceanic player who plays a couple of hours before we log on says it is still a struggle during that period.

It’s always been the case of players like you, usually NA prime time players who want to talk about “nightcapping” , factions winning campaigns through unbalanced pops through pve door. Or complaining about a guild fighting outnumbered, rather than capping resources back for points. It’s uncanny how you can in one post claim we pve door and criticize us. And then in another post claim we aren’t contributing because we are busy fighting and not pve dooring stuff for points.

Oceanic players have always balanced their time zone for Oceanic players. We enjoy fighting each other and will continue to do so. And as an aside, we probably don’t do much in tipping the points of the campaign for any one faction. So if AD is losing the campaign, it’s not because of Oceanic players.

You really should whisper me your toons name. Cause you sound just like a couple of players who are just plain salty at our guild. No real interest in anything other than trolling us.

Well, so much there explains why I am explaining chess and you are seeing checkers. I am not sure further explanations are going to even be read, much less assessed for relevance to conversation. Guess I will see you out there pushing the "highest pop" during those times and "trying out skills from patch" on scroll turnovers. Good on you.

Again, you accused our guild of two things which were untrue. And yet you still refuse or ignore apologizing. If you cannot own up to that, then you’re opinion means zilch.

maxjapank · February 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Take a real serious look at how campaigns are won. Think about it as something that EP and now DC were doing right. Figure out the strategies by which guilds, PUGs, small mans, and solos win campaigns.

The only thing winning campaigns is capping resources before each evaluation tick. Or capping the map when you greatly outnumber the enemy so you pull massive pts for hours. Oh, and let’s not forget the other strategy. Capping the map before maintenance times so you get ticks even when the game is offline. Nothing’s changed from that for some time now.

VaranisArano · February 2018

maxjapank wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Take a real serious look at how campaigns are won. Think about it as something that EP and now DC were doing right. Figure out the strategies by which guilds, PUGs, small mans, and solos win campaigns.

The only thing winning campaigns is capping resources before each evaluation tick. Or capping the map when you greatly outnumber the enemy so you pull massive pts for hours. Oh, and let’s not forget the other strategy. Capping the map before maintenance times so you get ticks even when the game is offline. Nothing’s changed from that for some time now.

If that's what you think winning campaigns is all about, then the answer to the question of "Why can't AD win?" is pretty simple, isn't it?

VaranisArano · February 2018

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Well, there is the answer then......a large consistently playing guild who doesn't strategically play for their faction, but attacking "whoever is high pop" without regard to score opportunity or consideration of what faction leads camp will greatly lower the chance for your faction to win any camps.

maxjapank wrote: »

TKG is completely loyal to AD. We have been since we moved back to support a 1-bar pop, non-existent AD Oceanic faction. If you need any confirmation, just ask the other long-time standing AD Oceanic guilds like Queen's RAM and Nocturnal. We do not play for a campaign win. So sorry. But we have always helped AD take back the map as soon as we log on. We have always helped defeat any EP or DC emp pushes, like we did against EP last night.

I have to say, I agree with Soul Demon on this (minus the argument you two are having). I'm well aware that TKG is a major force for AD when I log on to play EP during my mornings. I never mind fighting TKG. I get good fights from TKG - sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. That's how PVP is. Not a problem.

However, if you are looking at it from the perspective on "What does it take to win campaigns?" having a active guild forming most of your organized presence in a certain time slot that outright says "We do not play for a campaign win" has to account for some of the problem.

I'm not trying to knock TKG here or persuade you to change your playstyle. I'm a firm believer that every form of PVP is valid as long as people are having fun and there aren't any exploits going on. There are definitely nights when I don't push to win the campaign and instead I potato up for the run from Chalman to Ales or settle down to farm on the Alessia Bridge. TKG should play how TKG wants to play. You can absolutely be loyal to your faction and still not play to win a campaign.

But winning campaigns takes a faction wide effort to win campaigns. If you want to start winning campaigns, your major organized presences on the map have got to play like they want to win the campaign. If you don't play to win a camapign as a whole faction, don't be surprised when you don't win a campaign.

maxjapank · February 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Well, there is the answer then......a large consistently playing guild who doesn't strategically play for their faction, but attacking "whoever is high pop" without regard to score opportunity or consideration of what faction leads camp will greatly lower the chance for your faction to win any camps.

maxjapank wrote: »

TKG is completely loyal to AD. We have been since we moved back to support a 1-bar pop, non-existent AD Oceanic faction. If you need any confirmation, just ask the other long-time standing AD Oceanic guilds like Queen's RAM and Nocturnal. We do not play for a campaign win. So sorry. But we have always helped AD take back the map as soon as we log on. We have always helped defeat any EP or DC emp pushes, like we did against EP last night.

I have to say, I agree with Soul Demon on this (minus the argument you two are having). I'm well aware that TKG is a major force for AD when I log on to play EP during my mornings. I never mind fighting TKG. I get good fights from TKG - sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. That's how PVP is. Not a problem.

However, if you are looking at it from the perspective on "What does it take to win campaigns?" having a active guild forming most of your organized presence in a certain time slot that outright says "We do not play for a campaign win" has to account for some of the problem.

I'm not trying to knock TKG here or persuade you to change your playstyle. I'm a firm believer that every form of PVP is valid as long as people are having fun and there aren't any exploits going on. There are definitely nights when I don't push to win the campaign and instead I potato up for the run from Chalman to Ales or settle down to farm on the Alessia Bridge. TKG should play how TKG wants to play. You can absolutely be loyal to your faction and still not play to win a campaign.

But winning campaigns takes a faction wide effort to win campaigns. If you want to start winning campaigns, your major organized presences on the map have got to play like they want to win the campaign. If you don't play to win a camapign as a whole faction, don't be surprised when you don't win a campaign.

Well...I invite you to reread what has been said in this thread regarding TKG. Like how when we log on, we are often leading the charge taking back anywhere from BB, BM, Fare, Roe. AD usually has has nothing as they were pummeled by both EP and DC in the previous hours when AD was only at one bar population. Perhaps this is also one main reason why EP and AD have higher scores? Taking advantage of greatly outnumbering the enemy. I mean come on. You are talking "strategy" and yes pvedooring the map is a strategy. But don't claim it's anything other than capping empty keeps.

VaranisArano · February 2018

maxjapank wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Well, there is the answer then......a large consistently playing guild who doesn't strategically play for their faction, but attacking "whoever is high pop" without regard to score opportunity or consideration of what faction leads camp will greatly lower the chance for your faction to win any camps.

maxjapank wrote: »

TKG is completely loyal to AD. We have been since we moved back to support a 1-bar pop, non-existent AD Oceanic faction. If you need any confirmation, just ask the other long-time standing AD Oceanic guilds like Queen's RAM and Nocturnal. We do not play for a campaign win. So sorry. But we have always helped AD take back the map as soon as we log on. We have always helped defeat any EP or DC emp pushes, like we did against EP last night.

I have to say, I agree with Soul Demon on this (minus the argument you two are having). I'm well aware that TKG is a major force for AD when I log on to play EP during my mornings. I never mind fighting TKG. I get good fights from TKG - sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. That's how PVP is. Not a problem.

However, if you are looking at it from the perspective on "What does it take to win campaigns?" having a active guild forming most of your organized presence in a certain time slot that outright says "We do not play for a campaign win" has to account for some of the problem.

I'm not trying to knock TKG here or persuade you to change your playstyle. I'm a firm believer that every form of PVP is valid as long as people are having fun and there aren't any exploits going on. There are definitely nights when I don't push to win the campaign and instead I potato up for the run from Chalman to Ales or settle down to farm on the Alessia Bridge. TKG should play how TKG wants to play. You can absolutely be loyal to your faction and still not play to win a campaign.

But winning campaigns takes a faction wide effort to win campaigns. If you want to start winning campaigns, your major organized presences on the map have got to play like they want to win the campaign. If you don't play to win a camapign as a whole faction, don't be surprised when you don't win a campaign.

Well...I invite you to reread what has been said in this thread regarding TKG. Like how when we log on, we are often leading the charge taking back anywhere from BB, BM, Fare, Roe. AD usually has has nothing as they were pummeled by both EP and DC in the previous hours when AD was only at one bar population. Perhaps this is also one main reason why EP and AD have higher scores? Taking advantage of greatly outnumbering the enemy. I mean come on. You are talking "strategy" and yes pvedooring the map is a strategy. But don't claim it's anything other than capping empty keeps.

I don't believe I've ever claimed such. If you think PVDooring empty keeps is a strategy that wins campaigns, mark that down in the idea book for How AD Can Win Their Next Campaign. If lack of population is the issue, well, I can't speak to what would entice more AD players to come out and fight for the faction. I'm sure AD players can figure something out.

If you want to win campaigns, look at the strategies that work and copy them. If you aren't willing to adopt strategies that win campaigns, whatever those are, don't be surprised when you don't win campaigns.

Joy_Division · February 2018

A lot of bickering.

The best way to win a campaign is to exploit the mechanics ZoS has set up. What a faction owns only counts for 1 predictable second every hour. The system makes zero distinction between objectives and cares nothing for the difficulty in acquiring those objectives. It doesn't take a genius to recognize what a guild or faction that really cares about winning should do.

Every other strategy, with the possible exception of a highly experienced guild holding off 3+ times their number at an insignificant location (read: "important" keep that attracts PuGs and panicked call outs in zone) during the one second every hour score is tabulated, is sub-optimal. Arguments over which sub-optimal strategy is better is pointless because it just leads to hard feelings and further faction inefficiency.

I was a part of one campaign that tried to win and boy did it suck the life out of playing the game. It sucked horse riding simulator halfway across the map just to PvDoor resources and suiciding just for the sake of the scoreboard. It sucked arguing in zone with all the armchair generals who think they are strategic genius ala Napoleon. It sucked abandoning good fights for the sake of the map. It sucked losing an extra hour of sleep to guard against "night-cappers." Even though we won, it sucked and I'm not doing anything like that ever again because I play this game to PvP, not exploit the stupid scoring system that makes Chalman Farm worth as much as an Elder Scroll in a game called Elder Scrolls Online.

The rewards offered for winning are not even in the slightest worth stressing over and the scoring system in place is antithetical to enjoying PvP. Just play the game and have fun.

VaranisArano · February 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

A lot of bickering.

The best way to win a campaign is to exploit the mechanics ZoS has set up. What a faction owns only counts for 1 predictable second every hour. The system makes zero distinction between objectives and cares nothing for the difficulty in acquiring those objectives. It doesn't take a genius to recognize what a guild or faction that really cares about winning should do.

Every other strategy, with the possible exception of a highly experienced guild holding off 3+ times their number at an insignificant location (read: "important" keep that attracts PuGs and panicked call outs in zone) during the one second every hour score is tabulated, is sub-optimal. Arguments over which sub-optimal strategy is better is pointless because it just leads to hard feelings and further faction inefficiency.

I was a part of one campaign that tried to win and boy did it suck the life out of playing the game. It sucked horse riding simulator halfway across the map just to PvDoor resources and suiciding just for the sake of the scoreboard. It sucked arguing in zone with all the armchair generals who think they are strategic genius ala Napoleon. It sucked abandoning good fights for the sake of the map. It sucked losing an extra hour of sleep to guard against "night-cappers." Even though we won, it sucked and I'm not doing anything like that ever again because I play this game to PvP, not exploit the stupid scoring system that makes Chalman Farm worth as much as an Elder Scroll in a game called Elder Scrolls Online.

The rewards offered for winning are not even in the slightest worth stressing over and the scoring system in place is antithetical to enjoying PvP. Just play the game and have fun.

Pretty much this.

I'm all for people playing the game how they want to. Often, its better and healthier for players and the game for people to be having fun and enjoying the experience.

If playing to manage the map and playing to WIN!!! the campaign isn't fun for you, why bother? Its like we see all the time in sports - the contrast between the coaches whose teams are there to WIN!!! and the coaches whose teams are there to play hard and have a good time - and the difference that environment makes for players.

I like to play to manage the map and to win the campaign, because I have fun doing that. When I stop having fun with doing that, I go potato at Chalman to Ales or farm Alessia bridge with some other EP. I know that variety instead of relentless focus is good for me as a player.

But if you want to play to WIN!!! campaigns, use the mechanics ZOS set up to win, just like the Olympic figure skaters who have figure out how to use the rules to get themselves the max number of points for their routines. If you don't want to play to the mechanics that let you win campaigns, don't be surprised when you lose to factions that do play to the mechanics.

If you don't want to play to WIN!!!, then don't worry about it. Play hard for your faction and have a rollicking good time doing it.