Dragon bones DLC - EXP "exploit" why are INNOCENT people getting banned, exactly?

ItsNebula · February 2018

A close friend of mine has claimed to have been banned, ironically, not his fault. He "exploited" the exp bug that ZOS.. let me say that again.. "ZOS" released earlier today.
I however wasn't logged in at the time of ZOS making this a thing.. not to mention, last time i checked my friend (Who will remained unnamed) doesn't control what ZOS does to there game, whether it be a silly mistake and something that should be EASILY avoidable, considering i would imagine EXP and releasing a DLC are two different things.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/360592631727915009/412706284098551810/0DbcGzu.png

This happened. All he wanted to do was farm some telvar as buying and selling mats is his main source of in-game income.

Now, i understand ZOS is supporting there reasons to banns and what not with the "TOS" but is it REALLY FAIR, to ban a player, that this happened to BECAUSE of ZOS? Something he has NO CONTROL over?

And if he does have control over it, hes obviously working for ZOS, right? Sooo.. wheres his paycheck at?

I'm afraid for the future of the game and its community, mainly due to how ZOS handles this situations. I wonder how many people will continue to support the game if this is how a situation caused by, and ONLY caused by ZOS.. is handled.
It wouldn't be hard for a rollback i would assume?
Is there a reason ZOS isn't doing a rollback? It would save the account of MANY innocent players.
Especially unfair to the players who feed ZOS money daily on the crown crates, put countless hours into the game, gives them the good reviews that brings in potentially more consumers for ZOS.

I know me, my friend, and probably a few.. hundred? Others would like to know why we (they) are getting punished again.. for something they have. No. Control. Over. What. So. Ever.

There goes my rant for the day.

Leandor · February 2018

Continuing to grind after noticing the amount of XP gained. And dinging a champion point every mob can't be overlooked.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

If he noticed he gained 1 cp from one kill he should have backed out immediately, but if he was so close to leveling and that 1 kill would have leveled you anyway, the 2nd mob you killed and got a full level you know somethings wrong

ItsNebula · February 2018

Leandor wrote: »

Continuing to grind after noticing the amount of XP gained. And dinging a champion point every mob can't be overlooked.

Not even that. From what hes told me, after the first pool of mobs hes killed, he saw that 1.9mil EXP, and logged out immediately, because knowing ZOS they will, and always will blame that on the player.

Funny thing is, i was in class and he PMd me a few minutes after this saying "Im going to get banned..." "...I just got 1.9mil exp from a few trash mobs..."

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

If he wasn't logged on during the window then he has a legitimate grievence and could likely convince ZOS to unban his account.

If not, was his own lookout. Sorry. Cheaters are not tollerated.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Continuing to grind after noticing the amount of XP gained. And dinging a champion point every mob can't be overlooked.

Not even that. From what hes told me, after the first pool of mobs hes killed, he saw that 1.9mil EXP, and logged out immediately, because knowing ZOS they will, and always will blame that on the player.

Funny thing is, i was in class and he PMd me a few minutes after this saying "Im going to get banned..." "...I just got 1.9mil exp from a few trash mobs..."

Send in a ticket and they'll investigate it might take awhile since innocents do get caught up with the ones fully abusing it

ItsNebula · February 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

If he noticed he gained 1 cp from one kill he should have backed out immediately, but if he was so close to leveling and that 1 kill would have leveled you anyway, the 2nd mob you killed and got a full level you know somethings wrong

What i said above

But again, he could be lying, claiming to have pulled that 1 trash set.. but i dont know why he would need to continue to farm mobs, as hes 1k cp + and playing on his main toon, which i would assume everything is fully leveled and maxed.

Recremen · February 2018

I can only imagine logging on, going to grind some tel var for the housing storage, worrying about players from other factions sniping you, maybe having addons like No Thank You that stop the CP message, and then winding up with a ban because you didn't realize there was a monumental error on ZOS' part. I'm normally all for banning cheaters, but this seems more like a situation where they should just dock the XP.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

If he noticed he gained 1 cp from one kill he should have backed out immediately, but if he was so close to leveling and that 1 kill would have leveled you anyway, the 2nd mob you killed and got a full level you know somethings wrong

What i said above

But again, he could be lying, claiming to have pulled that 1 trash set.. but i dont know why he would need to continue to farm mobs, as hes 1k cp + and playing on his main toon, which i would assume everything is fully leveled and maxed.

Yeah max cp is 720 now I believe with the update, it would have been much easier just to have kept CP capped to begin with tbh, and not go above the cap before releasing more caps.

ItsNebula · February 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If he wasn't logged on during the window then he has a legitimate grievence and could likely convince ZOS to unban his account.

If not, was his own lookout. Sorry. Cheaters are not tollerated.

But this isn't cheating?

Cheating, is typically involved with a 3rd party program, not something that for whatever reason was "programmed" into the game for a brief period of time.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If he wasn't logged on during the window then he has a legitimate grievence and could likely convince ZOS to unban his account.

If not, was his own lookout. Sorry. Cheaters are not tollerated.

But this isn't cheating?

Cheating, is typically involved with a 3rd party program, not something that for whatever reason was "programmed" into the game for a brief period of time.

Your confusing hacking with cheating, hacking is backdoor programs, cheating can be either hacking or exploiting

Leandor · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Continuing to grind after noticing the amount of XP gained. And dinging a champion point every mob can't be overlooked.

Not even that. From what hes told me, after the first pool of mobs hes killed, he saw that 1.9mil EXP, and logged out immediately, because knowing ZOS they will, and always will blame that on the player.

Funny thing is, i was in class and he PMd me a few minutes after this saying "Im going to get banned..." "...I just got 1.9mil exp from a few trash mobs..."

Just saying, I'd be careful who to vouch for. I would do that only for my wife and only because I can see her playing next to me.

If he has a legitimate claim, he should appeal. I do think that after all those exploit cockups they have done, ZOS may start with a "ban first, check later, unban if necessary" policy.

ItsNebula · February 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If he wasn't logged on during the window then he has a legitimate grievence and could likely convince ZOS to unban his account.

If not, was his own lookout. Sorry. Cheaters are not tollerated.

But this isn't cheating?

Cheating, is typically involved with a 3rd party program, not something that for whatever reason was "programmed" into the game for a brief period of time.

Your confusing hacking with cheating, hacking is backdoor programs, cheating can be either hacking or exploiting

More than likely, but even so, cheating/hacking, roughly the same definition

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If he wasn't logged on during the window then he has a legitimate grievence and could likely convince ZOS to unban his account.

If not, was his own lookout. Sorry. Cheaters are not tollerated.

But this isn't cheating?

Cheating, is typically involved with a 3rd party program, not something that for whatever reason was "programmed" into the game for a brief period of time.

Your confusing hacking with cheating, hacking is backdoor programs, cheating can be either hacking or exploiting

More than likely, but even so, cheating/hacking, roughly the same definition

Well you don't need a 3rd party to cheat in a game, you can use a bug to your advantage which is exploiting

Kanar · February 2018

I agree, it's not an exploit.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

Kanar wrote: »

I agree, it's not an exploit.

It is an exploit though, the mobs weren't supposed to give you 1 cp per level, the legit xp was supposed to be around .2-.5% of a cp level per mob kill I believe, not 100-150%

They'res addons that let you know how much xp your getting per level and it is no where in the ball park of a 100-150% xp per kill limit

ItsNebula · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

I can only imagine logging on, going to grind some tel var for the housing storage, worrying about players from other factions sniping you, maybe having addons like No Thank You that stop the CP message, and then winding up with a ban because you didn't realize there was a monumental error on ZOS' part. I'm normally all for banning cheaters, but this seems more like a situation where they should just dock the XP.

I agree 110%.

A rollback, would be SO much easier.
Less drama, more respect for ZOS, innocent people not banned and more.

Even me, i would have been banned because i have it to where it doesnt show my EXP when i gain any, i would have NO IDEA until i realized i shot up in CP.

VaranisArano · February 2018

ZOS has been quoting from their Code of Conduct when it comes to this issue:

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct
5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.

Also applicable, the TOS:
8. RULES OF CONDUCT
You agree not to use any Service to:
....
Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;"

I can't speak for the situation of this player, but both the Code of Conduct and the TOS make it pretty clear that the correct course of action upon noticing a glitch or problem is to report it and stop using it. It doesn't matter that ZOS introduced the glitch. What does matter is what the players do when they see it (or when they could be reasonably expected to see it, since in this case, the game flashes exp and level gain on the screen unless you've blocked that with add-ons).

ItsNebula · February 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

I agree, it's not an exploit.

It is an exploit though, the mobs weren't supposed to give you 1 cp per level, the legit xp was supposed to be around .2-.5% of a cp level per mob kill I believe, not 100-150%

Thats the thing, they weren't supposed to give you that EXP, but ZOS programed it (is how i guess you can say it, im not a game dev) for that brief period of time, into the game.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

I agree, it's not an exploit.

It is an exploit though, the mobs weren't supposed to give you 1 cp per level, the legit xp was supposed to be around .2-.5% of a cp level per mob kill I believe, not 100-150%

Thats the thing, they weren't supposed to give you that EXP, but ZOS programed it (is how i guess you can say it, im not a game dev) for that brief period of time, into the game.

Even if it was in the game it was a bug, using bugs to your advantage is exploiting

VaranisArano · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

I agree, it's not an exploit.

It is an exploit though, the mobs weren't supposed to give you 1 cp per level, the legit xp was supposed to be around .2-.5% of a cp level per mob kill I believe, not 100-150%

Thats the thing, they weren't supposed to give you that EXP, but ZOS programed it (is how i guess you can say it, im not a game dev) for that brief period of time, into the game.

That was the same excuse the trial cheesers tried to use. "ZOS put that functionality into the game, we shouldn't be blamed for using it!"

Once someone spots the abnormally large amounts of exp, I don't think its possible to claim that's the way ZOS intended the game to be played even if ZOS did indeed mistakenly program that into the game.

Ranger209 · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

I can only imagine logging on, going to grind some tel var for the housing storage, worrying about players from other factions sniping you, maybe having addons like No Thank You that stop the CP message, and then winding up with a ban because you didn't realize there was a monumental error on ZOS' part. I'm normally all for banning cheaters, but this seems more like a situation where they should just dock the XP.

I agree 110%.

A rollback, would be SO much easier.
Less drama, more respect for ZOS, innocent people not banned and more.

Even me, i would have been banned because i have it to where it doesnt show my EXP when i gain any, i would have NO IDEA until i realized i shot up in CP.

Agree with this sentiment, roll it back. Are you telling me this is the only individual who gained any experience before this was noticed? Was this a sewers thing only? I'm glad I didn't play during this time frame is all I can say.

It is one thing when you are doing something that has a negative impact on the community at large or even to a few other individuals, but this didn't really impact anyone but him. I've played other games where things like this have happened or a gold making bug, I always remember them being handled with rollbacks as it was really the game that was at fault for releasing in an unsavory condition.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

Sounds to me like the sort of thing a simple appeal could solve.

Tandor · February 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

I agree, it's not an exploit.

It is an exploit though, the mobs weren't supposed to give you 1 cp per level, the legit xp was supposed to be around .2-.5% of a cp level per mob kill I believe, not 100-150%

Thats the thing, they weren't supposed to give you that EXP, but ZOS programed it (is how i guess you can say it, im not a game dev) for that brief period of time, into the game.

So when a bank cash machine pumps out free money because of a bug, that means everyone can just queue up and take all the cash until it runs out because the bank programmed it into the machine? Good luck explaining that one to the court.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Sounds to me like the sort of thing a simple appeal could solve.

Or just have CP capped to begin with so you couldn't overcap till another cap came out, but yeah wouldn't stop those that just started cp though which I forgot

BloodBeast_ESO · February 2018

"Hey guys todays DLC day! All you have to do is upload the DLC to the offical TESO game! Nothing more!"

ZOS emplyees: "What did he say?" "Idk, i think he said to go into the coding and add random things to spice up the gameplay and see who we can get banned" "oooh ok thats what i thoughti heard" "No he said to go into something 10000% irrelevant to releasing a DLC and do some twists and turns to get others banned and say its ther fault" Everyone at ZOS "Ooooh ok sweet, got it!"
ZOS Employee "I wonder what this button does"

my take on what happens when they make mistakes like this

MasterSpatula · February 2018

Considering what a pain it can be to queue for Cyrodiil and travel to the IC to farm Tel Var, I can see this being a mistake I would make. I'd be pretty annoyed at having to quit out just because ZOS screwed up, and I can honestly see myself saying, "Screw it" and continuing to farm.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

Tandor wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

I agree, it's not an exploit.

It is an exploit though, the mobs weren't supposed to give you 1 cp per level, the legit xp was supposed to be around .2-.5% of a cp level per mob kill I believe, not 100-150%

Thats the thing, they weren't supposed to give you that EXP, but ZOS programed it (is how i guess you can say it, im not a game dev) for that brief period of time, into the game.

So when a bank cash machine pumps out free money because of a bug, that means everyone can just queue up and take all the cash until it runs out because the bank programmed it into the machine? Good luck explaining that one to the court.

Not even remotely the same thing.

I'm neutral on this, and even I can tell your being one sided and unfair. Knock it off.

Nihility42 · February 2018

ZOS, don't you guys have anything better to do than bothering people over a harmless bug? Maybe nerfing everyone's favorite class or taking down a megaserver?

Moloch1514 · February 2018

When does ZOS start banning their own inept Dev team? I wish my boss accepted the mediocrity that @ZOS_MattFiror accepts under his watch.

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 2018

We haven't begun actioning any accounts yet. If you're having an issue with your account (or if your friend is), you should submit a ticket on our Support page for our team to review.