[PC NA] Why can't AD win?

antihero727 · February 2018

I can tell the newer players from the beta crew that is few and far between now. For 3 years AD dominated the main campaigns where a lot of AD got tired of steamrolling the other factions and switched sides. You talk like AD has always been in the situation we are in atm. Over the last year AD has lost more guilds and leaders than the other factions. DC used to be the small man always outnumbered faction, look how times have changed. EP used to be our AP farm because they had no good guilds till Havok broke off of DiE. Even still AD dominated the scores. It’s just a cycle, put away your playing since 2016 opinions and learn your Cyrodiil history. I am so tired of the post thieves guild crowd telling it like they know how it has always been. Rant over.

booksmcread · February 2018

The two biggest issues that would put AD in regular contention on Vivec NA/PC are 1) a handful of more players during NA afternoon and 2) a second prime time PUG group that uses voice comms. The only time AD is truly outnumbered on the campaign is during NA afternoons, before the NA prime time players start logging on. Outside of that, organization during prime time could use another PUG friendly group to help new and unguilded players move around the map in an effective manner and help them learn the mechanics of PVP, and more specifically, group PVP.

Most of the other issues are secondary or tertiary at best. Yes, it would be nice if the faction were more welcoming to re-rollers. Yes, it would be nice if there were less tin foil hat types insisting everyone on the opposing factions use cheats of some type or that the other factions are colluding. Yes, it would be nice if people in the faction realized that every faction zergs and stacks almost equally, just at different times (each faction is guilty of this, really). Yes, it would be helpful if zone chat were more friendly, had useful call outs, and had less Cyrodiil conspiracy theorists. But if you could address the two most pressing problems, most of these secondary/teriary issues could be overcome.

Mazbt · February 2018

AD doesn't have a large faction stack map dominating presence on off hours...like "oceanic prime time" whereas the other factions still run super deep. You can still find some good groups running and fighting super hard but can't really do much about the map.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · February 2018

Well, my guild only does official nights 3 days a week. When im not doing that I’d rather small man or solo resources and farm people because it’s less laggy and more entertaining. Who cares about keeps? Leaderboard means nothing since forever because people can just push whomever they want to the top, rewards are absolute crap, cyrodiil performance is generally terrible, IC is dead, there is really no reason to even log on at the moment.

Maybe DC and EP just has more try hards while AD has more role players who dress up like elves and cat people in real life and LARP all day hahaha!

Vilestride · February 2018

zyk wrote: »

I don't buy any of the race theories. In both PVP and PVE, AD has been dominant at different times on different platforms. Considering what players pay for mounts and outfits, I would bet most AvA enthusiasts freed themselves of race limitations long ago. It is the distribution of enthusiasts that dictactes the scoreboard.

It comes down to social dynamics. ESO is played by a huge variety of players. It may span four generations. Within these generations are varying degrees of enthusiasm from the ultra-casual to hardcore.

Yes, all factions have guilds, but not all factions have guilds or scenes attractive to all types of players. This is particularly evident in the small group and duelling scenes where AD is strongly under-represented on PC/NA. When new AD players become enthusiastic about ESO, they may find AD does not have the communities or aspirational guilds they are looking for. This problem feeds itself because many of those players switch factions to join the existing communities that appeal to them.

The current faction dynamics are the result of how the game has evolved socially. We've had some leaders in our community step up and try to help improve competitive parity by switching to AD, but we need more. Not just players of large groups, but also solo, small and medium group players who have a greater impact than I think is recognized.

Honestly, I can't back this reasoning for the simple fact that it is contradicted by DC winning so often lately.

If I am to be blunt, AD's top 3 guilds are all better than the best DC group currently. Group experience and raw capability actually has very little to do with score IMO. But rather it's the little consistencies that win campaigns. Constantly pushing for those couple of resources here and there. Being adamant about maintaining your own territory ect.

I don't think anyone actually thinks the races thing is the whole picture, or even a substantial slice, but I do think it has some relevancy. The thing is, every faction has serious guilds, who play map or are just a top competitive guild or whatever, but if you have equal values on either side of an equation they simply negate each other. It's what you are left with after this that makes the difference. And that is where the stealthy bow players AD is famous for let's them down. The reason this was less prominent in the past is simply a matter of ratios. As the general population levels dwindle, the small minority of the kinds of players we are talking about becomes a larger % of total population, because unlike serious competitive PVPers, the casual population refreshes itself. At least, to a higher degree than the former.

and this is a double sided sword to, having so many players who play the casual stealth bow guy also means that faction becomes the target of so many others. I sure as hell know when I get on during oceanic time if I am just playing for a hour or so I go straight to AD territory, flip[ a resource and try to get a few kills for the night, because straight up, the average AD random is far easier to kill than a DC one, and this would absolutely have to do with the mindset of the casual players who pick AD.

Potenza · February 2018

AD pugs are sleepy. They do not respond in time. Too slow to react. They leave the resources unchecked. Almost never retake the towns. Watch closely and see that they rarely use ultimates. Take too long to take a keep. Dont stop defenders from coming while attacking a keep. The list goes on and on. Its more like they are all stoned.

OtarTheMad · February 2018

If you look at it a little differently you could say that the population issues are simply due to the fact that DC and EP have had the most DLC so far. I know the areas are neutral to the war but they are in certain provinces and so therefore the architecture might make players pick that alliance.

But like antihero said, it's a cycle. AD will come back around again.

Fuhrankie · February 2018

I left AD/NA because it was toxic as ***. A lot of good players I know have. It gets frustrating trying to move the map when no one is listening or even actively doing the opposite.

WuffyCerulei · February 2018

I think it's also partially due to so many people being pvers in AD, with the Khajiit and Altmer being top dps races.

Jadokis · February 2018

AD just doesn't defend and has overall the worst players NA. There's some good players, but then there's a giant gap much wider than on other factions. On not defending, many guild groups are either incapable or refuse to defend at all, and the pugs are so unaware of what's going on with their own character they can't be expected to know a keep is under siege, or to read the chat box which would give them this information. Some guild groups maybe have intentions to defend though you wouldn't know it. They take 2+ minutes to group up after doing whatever they were doing and then have a congressional debate to decide on where to go next. Since they're not showing, on the off chance a lot of AD pugs were already at the objective, they will simply refuse to fight back. They'll stay up top and pretend the flags don't exist, or if it's a resource or open field they'd rather just run away.

The comments on stealth are true as well. Tons of AD will sit in stealth and avoid fighting.

None of this will change unless ZOS decides to allow us to report them for intentionally making other player's playing experience worse. People who have no intention of contributing at all simply shouldn't be allowed to be in Cyrodiil.

Draxys · February 2018

Jadokis wrote: »

AD just doesn't defend and has overall the worst players NA. There's some good players, but then there's a giant gap much wider than on other factions. On not defending, many guild groups are either incapable or refuse to defend at all, and the pugs are so unaware of what's going on with their own character they can't be expected to know a keep is under siege, or to read the chat box which would give them this information. Some guild groups maybe have intentions to defend though you wouldn't know it. They take 2+ minutes to group up after doing whatever they were doing and then have a congressional debate to decide on where to go next. Since they're not showing, on the off chance a lot of AD pugs were already at the objective, they will simply refuse to fight back. They'll stay up top and pretend the flags don't exist, or if it's a resource or open field they'd rather just run away.

The comments on stealth are true as well. Tons of AD will sit in stealth and avoid fighting.

None of this will change unless ZOS decides to allow us to report them for intentionally making other player's playing experience worse. People who have no intention of contributing at all simply shouldn't be allowed to be in Cyrodiil.

I disagree that they shouldn’t be allowed to do whatever they want in cyro... it’s just an unfortunate side effect of the dwindling population.

Telel · February 2018

Fuhrankie wrote: »

I left AD/NA because it was toxic as ***. A lot of good players I know have. It gets frustrating trying to move the map when no one is listening or even actively doing the opposite.

This one thinks you should pay attention to those most 'toxic' of elves. You'll usually find them back on the other side of the map once their friends get home from middle school, and log in. Especially the ones that go after the few dumbminion people willing to lead groups while certain other sorts sit about elfing into their milk.

Jadokis wrote: »

AD just doesn't defend and has overall the worst players NA. There's some good players, but then there's a giant gap much wider than on other factions. On not defending, many guild groups are either incapable or refuse to defend at all, and the pugs are so unaware of what's going on with their own character they can't be expected to know a keep is under siege, or to read the chat box which would give them this information. Some guild groups maybe have intentions to defend though you wouldn't know it. They take 2+ minutes to group up after doing whatever they were doing and then have a congressional debate to decide on where to go next. Since they're not showing, on the off chance a lot of AD pugs were already at the objective, they will simply refuse to fight back. They'll stay up top and pretend the flags don't exist, or if it's a resource or open field they'd rather just run away.

The comments on stealth are true as well. Tons of AD will sit in stealth and avoid fighting.

None of this will change unless ZOS decides to allow us to report them for intentionally making other player's playing experience worse. People who have no intention of contributing at all simply shouldn't be allowed to be in Cyrodiil.

Khajiit thinks you perhaps should have been at Roebeck around four to five pm today. It was fun, even if the hundreds of DC were worth almost no AP....

It also made for good twitch footage. ^_^

This one also thinks maybe you should be leading those groups and helping educate the players if you want them to listen to you. AS this one has already said that tends to work better than elfing into your milk.

Or running off to hide behind the flesh wall of the zergling factions. As so many silly people have done when they want to 'find good fights'.

maxjapank · February 2018

Every time I read a poster talking about how AD is so bad that they went to another faction, I think that poster really left because they'd rather have an easier time fighting. They are just being carried by the new faction. I know I'm wrong about some people, but I can't help thinking that about the majority. Sorry.

Telel · February 2018

maxjapank wrote: »

Every time I read a poster talking about how AD is so bad that they went to another faction, I think that poster really left because they'd rather have an easier time fighting. They are just being carried by the new faction. I know I'm wrong about some people, but I can't help thinking that about the majority. Sorry.

Do not feel sorry for speaking the truth. Only feel sorry that you did not do so in a properly humble and oh so wise khajiit manner.

Then go 'git gud' with the khal33t speak. It will bring much fluffiness to your tail, and elf words to your enemy's silly faces.

Jadokis · February 2018

Telel wrote: »

Fuhrankie wrote: »

I left AD/NA because it was toxic as ***. A lot of good players I know have. It gets frustrating trying to move the map when no one is listening or even actively doing the opposite.

This one thinks you should pay attention to those most 'toxic' of elves. You'll usually find them back on the other side of the map once their friends get home from middle school, and log in. Especially the ones that go after the few dumbminion people willing to lead groups while certain other sorts sit about elfing into their milk.

Jadokis wrote: »

AD just doesn't defend and has overall the worst players NA. There's some good players, but then there's a giant gap much wider than on other factions. On not defending, many guild groups are either incapable or refuse to defend at all, and the pugs are so unaware of what's going on with their own character they can't be expected to know a keep is under siege, or to read the chat box which would give them this information. Some guild groups maybe have intentions to defend though you wouldn't know it. They take 2+ minutes to group up after doing whatever they were doing and then have a congressional debate to decide on where to go next. Since they're not showing, on the off chance a lot of AD pugs were already at the objective, they will simply refuse to fight back. They'll stay up top and pretend the flags don't exist, or if it's a resource or open field they'd rather just run away.

The comments on stealth are true as well. Tons of AD will sit in stealth and avoid fighting.

None of this will change unless ZOS decides to allow us to report them for intentionally making other player's playing experience worse. People who have no intention of contributing at all simply shouldn't be allowed to be in Cyrodiil.

Khajiit thinks you perhaps should have been at Roebeck around four to five pm today. It was fun, even if the hundreds of DC were worth almost no AP....

It also made for good twitch footage. ^_^

This one also thinks maybe you should be leading those groups and helping educate the players if you want them to listen to you. AS this one has already said that tends to work better than elfing into your milk.

Or running off to hide behind the flesh wall of the zergling factions. As so many silly people have done when they want to 'find good fights'.

The problem is these people don't want to be taught. They want to join the campaign and make the faction worse off with them there. I would rather be at 2 bars after cutting off the fat than having 2 bars of a pop locked faction be walking AP generation and VD's. Applying that to only half the faction on at prime time is being generous, too.

My guild tried to teach AD's major pug guild, Ruin, what sets, roles, etc. to make an efficient group. What happened? The officer/raid leader who worked with us got kicked from the guild he was essentially leading for trying to do so, and Ruin regressed any progress they may have made to go back to being walking AP sheep.

Majority of AD doesn't pay attention to chat so you can't even communicate with most of them. If you can communicate with them the majority won't accept your advice. You'll just end up having an argument with someone who thinks nightblade fear doesn't go through block because they can't wrap their minds around the CC immunity mechanic. And that's a person who I know has been in cyro for at least one year.

In short, AD as a faction is hopeless until the bigger guilds get their act together and contribute to the faction and commit to getting better. I know a couple of them use the excuse of "we prioritize having fun in this guild", assuming you can't have fun while not wiping over and over. Instead of drinking after every time your raid wipes you could take a drink after you wipe an enemy raid. Oh well, though. It's gonna take divine intervention to save the AD faction at this point. I don't even want them to win, just not be embarrassing to be associated with.

Slick_007 · February 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

please enlighten us to the current scores in vivec and sotha campaigns.

sotha sil:
AD 31831
DC 24953
EP 23570

cant currently bring up vivec scores but last i saw it was something similar

so why cant AD win? they are. in 2 campaigns at least

Lady_Scorp72 · February 2018

I guess it depends which campaign. As a newish player in PVP, my main's home campaign is Sotha Sil, and it seems to me that AD is always winning, so much so that I will switch to Vivec when it's not locked or an alt for Kyne or Shor (all my toons are AD).

I've found toxic chat and infighting in every campaign, but there's also a lot of great players who just want to have fun. I've found a lot of these people rarely if ever participate in the zone chat, and so I've learned the best way to find like-minded players is to simply play the map and follow the fights. I've been pleasantly surprised at how many people have invited me to group up, and I've always had a great time. From them I've learned to get the right impen gear, the right weapon traits, and it's made me a much better player, though by no means a great one.

I respect the players who focus hard on winning, I like winning too and will do what I can if I have the time, but PVP isn't my main interest in ESO. When I am in Cyro, sometimes I play a stealthy solo bow build, sometimes I focus on keep defense, sometimes I spend a few hours running with a group to take resources and fight hard battles, and sometimes I just want to solo PVE or spend time in the Imperial City and don't pay attention to the map. If someone thinks that's not good enough, well too bad. That's their problem not mine.

Anyway, all that to say that while I'm too new to comment on what AD should or shouldn't do as a faction, I see a lot of threads talking about the negativity, but I also see a lot of people quietly leading by example and inspiring people to become better players. It's terrific, and I wish AD had more of this in the zone chat. It's these players who make PVP a great experience IMO, especially for new or causal PVPers.

IZZEFlameLash · February 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

please enlighten us to the current scores in vivec and sotha campaigns.

sotha sil:
AD 31831
DC 24953
EP 23570

cant currently bring up vivec scores but last i saw it was something similar

so why cant AD win? they are. in 2 campaigns at least

Those campaigns are usually the result of lack of population. Especially non-CP ones. Heck, even 7 days CP one is also pretty much imbalanced and a ground for emp achievement through basically trading. I've seen someone with their own guild doing it before during my short stays in those campaigns. They'd roll the map in one faction and then the other. If not doing this, then one faction guild usually just rolls the map over. Vivec atm is the only really competitive one. And I believe the OP was talking about Vivec.

Telel · February 2018

Jadokis wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Fuhrankie wrote: »

I left AD/NA because it was toxic as ***. A lot of good players I know have. It gets frustrating trying to move the map when no one is listening or even actively doing the opposite.

This one thinks you should pay attention to those most 'toxic' of elves. You'll usually find them back on the other side of the map once their friends get home from middle school, and log in. Especially the ones that go after the few dumbminion people willing to lead groups while certain other sorts sit about elfing into their milk.

Jadokis wrote: »

AD just doesn't defend and has overall the worst players NA. There's some good players, but then there's a giant gap much wider than on other factions. On not defending, many guild groups are either incapable or refuse to defend at all, and the pugs are so unaware of what's going on with their own character they can't be expected to know a keep is under siege, or to read the chat box which would give them this information. Some guild groups maybe have intentions to defend though you wouldn't know it. They take 2+ minutes to group up after doing whatever they were doing and then have a congressional debate to decide on where to go next. Since they're not showing, on the off chance a lot of AD pugs were already at the objective, they will simply refuse to fight back. They'll stay up top and pretend the flags don't exist, or if it's a resource or open field they'd rather just run away.

The comments on stealth are true as well. Tons of AD will sit in stealth and avoid fighting.

None of this will change unless ZOS decides to allow us to report them for intentionally making other player's playing experience worse. People who have no intention of contributing at all simply shouldn't be allowed to be in Cyrodiil.

Khajiit thinks you perhaps should have been at Roebeck around four to five pm today. It was fun, even if the hundreds of DC were worth almost no AP....

It also made for good twitch footage. ^_^

This one also thinks maybe you should be leading those groups and helping educate the players if you want them to listen to you. AS this one has already said that tends to work better than elfing into your milk.

Or running off to hide behind the flesh wall of the zergling factions. As so many silly people have done when they want to 'find good fights'.

The problem is these people don't want to be taught. They want to join the campaign and make the faction worse off with them there. I would rather be at 2 bars after cutting off the fat than having 2 bars of a pop locked faction be walking AP generation and VD's. Applying that to only half the faction on at prime time is being generous, too.

My guild tried to teach AD's major pug guild, Ruin, what sets, roles, etc. to make an efficient group. What happened? The officer/raid leader who worked with us got kicked from the guild he was essentially leading for trying to do so, and Ruin regressed any progress they may have made to go back to being walking AP sheep.

Majority of AD doesn't pay attention to chat so you can't even communicate with most of them. If you can communicate with them the majority won't accept your advice. You'll just end up having an argument with someone who thinks nightblade fear doesn't go through block because they can't wrap their minds around the CC immunity mechanic. And that's a person who I know has been in cyro for at least one year.

In short, AD as a faction is hopeless until the bigger guilds get their act together and contribute to the faction and commit to getting better. I know a couple of them use the excuse of "we prioritize having fun in this guild", assuming you can't have fun while not wiping over and over. Instead of drinking after every time your raid wipes you could take a drink after you wipe an enemy raid. Oh well, though. It's gonna take divine intervention to save the AD faction at this point. I don't even want them to win, just not be embarrassing to be associated with.

Every time khajiit hears people try to justify their fleeing whenver things don't go their way this one has the same thought.

That's all it took to make you run away?

They then have another thought shortly thereafter. usually as fifty scrublings are standing on their corpse.

And you decided to go run away to do that after saying all that stuff about how good you are?

However as Telel is a polite khajiit they never come right out and say such things to those who leave a trail of elfishness in their wake whenever things get tough. Except to that one guy who deserves it. You know who you are.

Instead what Khajiit does is they put on the big boy pants they made from elf baby skin, get back on the camel, and do exactly what they ask others to do. Especially when it certainly is a better option than sitting in a corner sucking on one's tail.

Minalan · February 2018

They need faction change tokens. Stat. I want to play AD. Desperate battle against overwhelming odds every night? Where do I sign up?

efster · February 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

sotha sil:
AD 31831
DC 24953
EP 23570

cant currently bring up vivec scores but last i saw it was something similar

Was this EU or NA? Cause Vivec PC NA looks nothing like that. It looks like this:

AD hasn't won NA Vivec in something like a year. I haven't seen us outside 3rd place since July 2017, but thanks for playing.

Crispen_Longbow · February 2018

efster wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

sotha sil:
AD 31831
DC 24953
EP 23570

cant currently bring up vivec scores but last i saw it was something similar

Was this EU or NA? Cause Vivec PC NA looks nothing like that. It looks like this:

AD hasn't won NA Vivec in something like a year. I haven't seen us outside 3rd place since July 2017, but thanks for playing.

He said Sotha Sil not Vivec.

Rohamad_Ali · February 2018

Worst players ? Toxic ? Wut . That is not true . Maybe I should log in an see ... Was waiting for update but .

efster · February 2018

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

He said Sotha Sil not Vivec.

they also said "cant currently bring up vivec scores but last i saw it was something similar" which is literally what I'm responding to. But thank you, also, for playing.

jaime1982 · February 2018

efster wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

He said Sotha Sil not Vivec.

they also said "cant currently bring up vivec scores but last i saw it was something similar" which is literally what I'm responding to. But thank you, also, for playing.

What do they win? Last I saw it was something similar..... lol

antihero727 · February 2018

Faction loyalty was thrown out the windows with one Tamriel. Last night at prime time I watched as AD pushed emp with EP alts then switched back to EP and steamrolled the map within an hour. Honestly what’s the point of map pushing anymore with stuff like this going on. Just like a parent I am not mad I am disappointed.

Slick_007 · February 2018

efster wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

He said Sotha Sil not Vivec.

they also said "cant currently bring up vivec scores but last i saw it was something similar" which is literally what I'm responding to. But thank you, also, for playing.

regardless, AD are crushing it in sotha. make all the excuses you want for the other two factions, but they are being beaten. So yeh, AD can win

efster · February 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

regardless, AD are crushing it in sotha. make all the excuses you want for the other two factions, but they are being beaten. So yeh, AD can win

That's your argument? lmao

The fact is that AD has not won the only actual competitive campaign on the PC NA server in almost a year. A bunch of people are here in this thread trying to discuss why this is the case. "But look at Sotha Sil!" is not really a valid argument in that context, but generally speaking, yes, you're right. Maybe we can get those AD from Sotha Sil to come win Vivec for us.

JobooAGS · February 2018

efster wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

regardless, AD are crushing it in sotha. make all the excuses you want for the other two factions, but they are being beaten. So yeh, AD can win

That's your argument? lmao

The fact is that AD has not won the only actual competitive campaign on the PC NA server in almost a year. A bunch of people are here in this thread trying to discuss why this is the case. "But look at Sotha Sil!" is not really a valid argument in that context, but generally speaking, yes, you're right. Maybe we can get those AD from Sotha Sil to come win Vivec for us.

There is a reason why people play no cp...

DeadlyRecluse · February 2018

AD would be a better faction if you could take enemy keeps by sniping them from the walls of your own keep.