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Wouldn’t an effective color based character level make more sense than CP or level 1-49?
NewBlacksmurf
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There are different discussions around CP and how it relates to group content as well as PvP.
To me it seems that as a result of ZOS not being able to remove VR from the game and rolling into CP, but not wanting to open up access to let us view other players stats, gear and CP allotment....there’s an opportunity.
In the past I use to write often that [{(<50>)}] looks better than CP 501, or whatever, here is a more logical idea
The way CP is represented and with understanding how it works, to different groups it’s unclear when and what matters for group content.
As a result it acts as a deterrent, reason to exclude, or elitism, confusion, use of capturing a video clip on a dps dummy and sending to another, or other methods depending.
People are trying to understand what’s good, great, bad, and don’t want to waste their time or be with others who can’t accomplish the content, etc. some of that is subjective, but some also is definately yes or no we can or can’t do this.
What we see for our own characters doesn’t technically need to change as we can see what’s what, however we cannot see what others interpret. Nor can we influence what others interpret, so here goes.....
With that, my opinion is the players as a whole would be more satisfied with a clear indicator of each players viability compared to one flat standard. Let’s say CP isn’t removed, O K, instead of showing a number that doesn’t mean anything other than accomplished exp levels, the game would benefit from a simple character level numeric that’s a result of caluculations to assigned CP and character stats.
@ZOS_RichLambert would it be reasonable to introduce such a calculation that shows us one level?
Such a result would seem to be desired greatly
This was clear
This is not
The goal is to show an effective level and what would be even more awesome is if it came with a color. The color green would equate to stamina and blue to magic.
The number would be 1-100 (let’s use a easily understandable range)
If you’re a stam dps, green number
If stam tank, green number
If stam healer, green number
If magic tank, blue number
If magic dps, blue number
If magic healer, blue number
Perhaps gold would apply to PvP as it’s different and needs to be understood as such. However this gold number may only show in a PvP mode so i think it would help to let ppl see this some way I can’t describe outside of PvP
(Some may not be viable but the idea is an easily represented focus)
Now players who join groups or when viewed in the current UI, will know how viable they are and it’s a very simple way to let everyone know what they prefer for X content.
Edited by NewBlacksmurf on February 8, 2018 2:40PM To me it seems that as a result of ZOS not being able to remove VR from the game and rolling into CP, but not wanting to open up access to let us view other players stats, gear and CP allotment....there’s an opportunity.
In the past I use to write often that [{(<50>)}] looks better than CP 501, or whatever, here is a more logical idea
The way CP is represented and with understanding how it works, to different groups it’s unclear when and what matters for group content.
As a result it acts as a deterrent, reason to exclude, or elitism, confusion, use of capturing a video clip on a dps dummy and sending to another, or other methods depending.
People are trying to understand what’s good, great, bad, and don’t want to waste their time or be with others who can’t accomplish the content, etc. some of that is subjective, but some also is definately yes or no we can or can’t do this.
What we see for our own characters doesn’t technically need to change as we can see what’s what, however we cannot see what others interpret. Nor can we influence what others interpret, so here goes.....
With that, my opinion is the players as a whole would be more satisfied with a clear indicator of each players viability compared to one flat standard. Let’s say CP isn’t removed, O K, instead of showing a number that doesn’t mean anything other than accomplished exp levels, the game would benefit from a simple character level numeric that’s a result of caluculations to assigned CP and character stats.
@ZOS_RichLambert would it be reasonable to introduce such a calculation that shows us one level?
Such a result would seem to be desired greatly
This was clear
This is not
The goal is to show an effective level and what would be even more awesome is if it came with a color. The color green would equate to stamina and blue to magic.
The number would be 1-100 (let’s use a easily understandable range)
If you’re a stam dps, green number
If stam tank, green number
If stam healer, green number
If magic tank, blue number
If magic dps, blue number
If magic healer, blue number
Perhaps gold would apply to PvP as it’s different and needs to be understood as such. However this gold number may only show in a PvP mode so i think it would help to let ppl see this some way I can’t describe outside of PvP
(Some may not be viable but the idea is an easily represented focus)
Now players who join groups or when viewed in the current UI, will know how viable they are and it’s a very simple way to let everyone know what they prefer for X content.
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *501
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *501
Wouldn’t an effective color based character level make more sense than CP or level 1-49? 65 votes
Yes, that would be desired
9%
6 votes
No, I don’t like that, I like CP as is
76%
50 votes
No, I have another suggestion as I don’t like CP or this idea
13%
9 votes
1
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Reb✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isso you want to remove one number that people use to judge people on, and replace it with another that people will judge you on..kind of a pointless exercise14
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, that would be desiredso you want to remove one number that people use to judge people on, and replace it with another that people will judge you on..kind of a pointless exercise
@Reb
Not quite what you’re saying....I’m suggesting to remove an arbitrary indicator and offer an informative indicator. I don’t see any value in showing CP at all.....this would address pre and post level 50’s in any environment including any scaled effects. We don’t have that today.
You and others will still keep their CP but if you can imagine seeing a colors numeric too
Maybe in options we can choose to see one or both for whatever desires people have, the idea is to provide a meaningful indicator. The CP level is only a reference for post 50 players of the exp they’ve gained, not any allocation of points, stats or skills on their bar.
It would seem players are attempting to use the CP among other things to try and evaluate players, let’s make it clean and simple is all.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on February 8, 2018 3:00PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
oXI_Viper_IXo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isIt sounds like you're trying to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. Either that or I don't entirely understand what you're getting at.4 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, that would be desiredF_16C_VIPER wrote: »It sounds like you're trying to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. Either that or I don't entirely understand what you're getting at.
@F_16C_VIPER
Tell me more.....
I’m under the impression the problem is that CP doesn’t indicate anything other than gained exp. It’s only shown post level 49, but people are trying to use it to understand if another player or themselves are adequate for X and Y content within a given role based on what’s actually assigned and slotted.
Would you say that isn’t a problem today?Edited by NewBlacksmurf on February 8, 2018 3:03PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Nihility42✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isI'm confused how you would plan for this to be calculated? How do you accurately boil things down to a single number? Do the devs base it on their opinions? On what the community considers meta? What happens if the meta changes or balance changes are made? Do the devs have to constantly spend time refining their formula? What if someone plays an unconventional build (not a *** one, just a weird one that they're good with)?
I don't see how you could possibly create a number that is any more informative than CP. In fact I think it would be more subjective and less useful than CP.3 -
WatchYourSixx✭✭✭✭So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?The only thing to fear is, fear itself. - FDR
CP 800
PC NA
- Maximus the Marksman (AD) Temp
- Rex the Unstoppable Force (DC) DK
- Sodor Dragonfire (DC) DK
- Masha'Dar Shadow-Paw (DC) NB
- Magnus the Mage (DC) Sorc0 -
Stania✭✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isEither way, elitists will just keep finding ways to judge and discriminate other players to feel superior for what they do on a videogame.
PC NA server
¡Hablo español!|vet trial #1|vet trial #2|vet trial #3 HM|Another vet trial|a hard-to-get achievement|
My characters:
<List of characters that no one cares to know with their classes and roles>
"Inspirational quote"3 -
oXI_Viper_IXo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isWould the player select the color or the game? What about hybrid builds and support roles? I'm trying to understand, but I'm just not seeing how this would improve anything.2 -
Zorgon_The_Revenged✭✭✭✭✭I have a friend who has vet14 gear, vet12 valkyn skoria set and he grinded out 1200 cp before he left the game 2 years ago. I'm interested how this player would be "scored"?0
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Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
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Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isso you want to remove one number that people use to judge people on, and replace it with another that people will judge you on..kind of a pointless exercise
Exactly my thoughts though my guess is something got lost as OP attempted to explain things since the post was so long. Just a guess giving him the benefit of the doubt.Edited by idk on February 8, 2018 3:30PM0 -
phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as issince you asked...
I have zero interest in creating a new display system that arbitrarily (and arbitrary is the only way it'll ever happen) the "viability" of someone's build via their cp spending/quantity
For my own part, my only real interest in my teammates, guild or pug, is - are they enjoyable people to play with? I have no burning desire to complete content in any set period of time, I have no burning drive to farm for gear - I enjoy playing group content with anyone - ANYONE - that happens to be reasonably pleasant to be around.
Now, don't get me wrong - it's quite possible to occasionally run into dedicated, deliberate morons, or dedicated and deliberate jackasses. And frequently, those people will also be running incompetent builds of one kind or another. However, having a cp system with which to evaluate their incompetent builds still doesn't gauge the most important aspect of their character - are they nice people with wacky sub-par builds, or are they jerks?
I will happily go into a dungeon with wacky sub-par builds and enjoyable people. I'll have a good time. I don't even have to succeed at the content. If the people I'm with are fun, I'll have fun.
Now, don't get me wrong - I DEFINITELY...believe that the cp system could use an overhaul. Strangely, I think it can still work quite well *mostly* in it's current form - just needs some...adjustments - but as far as making everyone else's "builds" more visible so you can decide who doesn't have a "viable" build in your opinion - THAT is NOT one of the things that needs to happen...
as far as I'm concerned. Thank you for asking for my opinion."There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, that would be desiredWatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skillsEdited by NewBlacksmurf on February 8, 2018 3:48PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Nihility42✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isNewBlacksmurf wrote: »WatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skills
But who decides how those stats and skills weigh in the calculation? Who decides what is best and what stats most heavily affect it? Who takes the time to fix it every time there is a balance change? What happens when a developer designs the formula and it doesn't match what players are actually looking for in the game and a "level" 60 healer is better than a level 100 due to a bad formula?
I still don't see how this could be calculated in a way that makes it an better or more impartial than CP. And if CP isn't enough, asking for DPS numbers or prior experience or whatever.3 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, that would be desiredNihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »WatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skills
But who decides how those stats and skills weigh in the calculation? Who decides what is best and what stats most heavily affect it? Who takes the time to fix it every time there is a balance change? What happens when a developer designs the formula and it doesn't match what players are actually looking for in the game and a "level" 60 healer is better than a level 100 due to a bad formula?
I still don't see how this could be calculated in a way that makes it an better or more impartial than CP. And if CP isn't enough, asking for DPS numbers or prior experience or whatever.
@Nihility42
The system. The developers as they are who actively buff, nerf and change these stats and effects every update.
I could be mistaken but these calculations are already being done.
What’s missing is an effective display that’s simple and easily shown.
What I’m saying is the game already determines what the combination of stats, gear and skills produce.
All this is doing is showing a colored number using a scale of 1-100
The point of that scale is regardless of the changes made, the indicator represents an easily understandable result.
In essence nothing you do now changes and the devs will continue to do what they do.....as a result tho, you would actually see if any change you made or that they make results in an actual buff or nerf to this number so we can adjust accordingly
This isn’t going to determine how effective someone plays a build as that’s another thing altogether, but it does replace the CP number in the UI when looking at another character so you know if their build is “good, great, bad, etc” depending on their choices.
It’s just a clean indicatorEdited by NewBlacksmurf on February 8, 2018 4:04PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isNewBlacksmurf wrote: »Nihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »WatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skills
But who decides how those stats and skills weigh in the calculation? Who decides what is best and what stats most heavily affect it? Who takes the time to fix it every time there is a balance change? What happens when a developer designs the formula and it doesn't match what players are actually looking for in the game and a "level" 60 healer is better than a level 100 due to a bad formula?
I still don't see how this could be calculated in a way that makes it an better or more impartial than CP. And if CP isn't enough, asking for DPS numbers or prior experience or whatever.
@Nihility42
The system. The developers as they are who actively buff, nerf and change these stats and effects every update.
I could be mistaken but these calculations are already being done.
What’s missing is an effective display that’s simple and easily shown.
What I’m saying is the game already determines what the combination of stats, gear and skills produce.
All this is doing is showing a colored number using a scale of 1-100
The point of that scale is regardless of the changes made, the indicator represents an easily understandable result.
In essence nothing you do now changes and the devs will continue to do what they do.....as a result tho, you would actually see if any change you made or that they make results in an actual buff or nerf to this number so we can adjust accordingly
This isn’t going to determine how effective someone plays a build as that’s another thing altogether, but it does replace the CP number in the UI when looking at another character so you know if their build is “good, great, bad, etc” depending on their choices.
It’s just a clean indicator
The developers nary have a clue about what sets ans skills are best. They get that information from players. Devs are not the experts. The players who actually spend the time to figure out what works best are the source of the best information. ICYMI builds often change some each update. Devs don't know how the builds will change each update.
So relying on this devs for this would be a mistake.
Seems like taking a straight forward system and making it more complicated and for someone it will become burdensome.
I still vote no4 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, that would be desiredNewBlacksmurf wrote: »Nihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »WatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skills
But who decides how those stats and skills weigh in the calculation? Who decides what is best and what stats most heavily affect it? Who takes the time to fix it every time there is a balance change? What happens when a developer designs the formula and it doesn't match what players are actually looking for in the game and a "level" 60 healer is better than a level 100 due to a bad formula?
I still don't see how this could be calculated in a way that makes it an better or more impartial than CP. And if CP isn't enough, asking for DPS numbers or prior experience or whatever.
@Nihility42
The system. The developers as they are who actively buff, nerf and change these stats and effects every update.
I could be mistaken but these calculations are already being done.
What’s missing is an effective display that’s simple and easily shown.
What I’m saying is the game already determines what the combination of stats, gear and skills produce.
All this is doing is showing a colored number using a scale of 1-100
The point of that scale is regardless of the changes made, the indicator represents an easily understandable result.
In essence nothing you do now changes and the devs will continue to do what they do.....as a result tho, you would actually see if any change you made or that they make results in an actual buff or nerf to this number so we can adjust accordingly
This isn’t going to determine how effective someone plays a build as that’s another thing altogether, but it does replace the CP number in the UI when looking at another character so you know if their build is “good, great, bad, etc” depending on their choices.
It’s just a clean indicator
The developers nary have a clue about what sets ans skills are best. They get that information from players. Devs are not the experts. The players who actually spend the time to figure out what works best are the source of the best information. ICYMI builds often change some each update. Devs don't know how the builds will change each update.
So relying on this devs for this would be a mistake.
Seems like taking a straight forward system and making it more complicated and for someone it will become burdensome.
I still vote no
@idk
I think you’re adding something to this not mentioned.
I comprehend you and others are concerns that the developers don’t know what skills or stats are good/bad/indifferent.
This idea is simply using those existing calculations to produce a numberic with a color indicator.
Specifically meaning this, after you assign stats, CP and slot skills there is a max value each skill can reach
That value may change with each update however, the indicator is telling you and others on a scale of 1-100 how your choices relate on that scale.
It has nothing to do with the developer getting it right or wrong, it’s based of max and min set values through the calculations that already exist.
So now if you group and you see someone using X or Y abilities and it seems futile you know why and also if they seem good or great you know why.
You also have insight because you’re measured by the same scale.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on February 8, 2018 5:10PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Nihility42✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isNewBlacksmurf wrote: »Nihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »WatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skills
But who decides how those stats and skills weigh in the calculation? Who decides what is best and what stats most heavily affect it? Who takes the time to fix it every time there is a balance change? What happens when a developer designs the formula and it doesn't match what players are actually looking for in the game and a "level" 60 healer is better than a level 100 due to a bad formula?
I still don't see how this could be calculated in a way that makes it an better or more impartial than CP. And if CP isn't enough, asking for DPS numbers or prior experience or whatever.
@Nihility42
The system. The developers as they are who actively buff, nerf and change these stats and effects every update.
I could be mistaken but these calculations are already being done.
What’s missing is an effective display that’s simple and easily shown.
What I’m saying is the game already determines what the combination of stats, gear and skills produce.
All this is doing is showing a colored number using a scale of 1-100
The point of that scale is regardless of the changes made, the indicator represents an easily understandable result.
In essence nothing you do now changes and the devs will continue to do what they do.....as a result tho, you would actually see if any change you made or that they make results in an actual buff or nerf to this number so we can adjust accordingly
This isn’t going to determine how effective someone plays a build as that’s another thing altogether, but it does replace the CP number in the UI when looking at another character so you know if their build is “good, great, bad, etc” depending on their choices.
It’s just a clean indicator
These calculations are being done? You think the devs have some sort of complicated algorithm to determine how good players are at their role? I mean, I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it. I don't say this to be mean, but it doesn't sound like you understand how the game works very well.
Yeah, there are some stats that are already calculated, such as max stats or weapon/spell damage, but even in a DPS toon that doesn't tell the whole story. You'd have to have some sort of check or multiplier based on skills used for it to mean anything.
And what about a tank or a healer? Those roles are even more flexible and less based on raw stats. There are still a lot of variables that aren't captured with the stats available. It ends up being very subjective.
This doesn't do anything to improve CP, it just replaces one semi-meaningless number with an even more meaningless and inscrutable number. If this were implemented, we'd just have good players who get a low ranking getting instakicked all the time instead of good low CP players. It wouldn't solve the issue.2 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isI'm happy with a number. We all get numbers and sequence then.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, that would be desiredNihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Nihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »WatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skills
But who decides how those stats and skills weigh in the calculation? Who decides what is best and what stats most heavily affect it? Who takes the time to fix it every time there is a balance change? What happens when a developer designs the formula and it doesn't match what players are actually looking for in the game and a "level" 60 healer is better than a level 100 due to a bad formula?
I still don't see how this could be calculated in a way that makes it an better or more impartial than CP. And if CP isn't enough, asking for DPS numbers or prior experience or whatever.
@Nihility42
The system. The developers as they are who actively buff, nerf and change these stats and effects every update.
I could be mistaken but these calculations are already being done.
What’s missing is an effective display that’s simple and easily shown.
What I’m saying is the game already determines what the combination of stats, gear and skills produce.
All this is doing is showing a colored number using a scale of 1-100
The point of that scale is regardless of the changes made, the indicator represents an easily understandable result.
In essence nothing you do now changes and the devs will continue to do what they do.....as a result tho, you would actually see if any change you made or that they make results in an actual buff or nerf to this number so we can adjust accordingly
This isn’t going to determine how effective someone plays a build as that’s another thing altogether, but it does replace the CP number in the UI when looking at another character so you know if their build is “good, great, bad, etc” depending on their choices.
It’s just a clean indicator
These calculations are being done? You think the devs have some sort of complicated algorithm to determine how good players are at their role? I mean, I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it. I don't say this to be mean, but it doesn't sound like you understand how the game works very well.
Yeah, there are some stats that are already calculated, such as max stats or weapon/spell damage, but even in a DPS toon that doesn't tell the whole story. You'd have to have some sort of check or multiplier based on skills used for it to mean anything.
And what about a tank or a healer? Those roles are even more flexible and less based on raw stats. There are still a lot of variables that aren't captured with the stats available. It ends up being very subjective.
This doesn't do anything to improve CP, it just replaces one semi-meaningless number with an even more meaningless and inscrutable number. If this were implemented, we'd just have good players who get a low ranking getting instakicked all the time instead of good low CP players. It wouldn't solve the issue.
@Nihility42
The calculations are already being done. We heard more on this way back when they were testing the impacts of non CP campaigns as the amount of calculations, in theory was a contributing factor to other issues.
The calculations are the min and max of assigned stats, gear stats, and CP allotment as it relates to slotted skills.
It’s how the game determines skill effects, etc.
All they are doing is simplifying that so we can see it represented as a colored numberic. Using a scale of 1-100Edited by NewBlacksmurf on February 8, 2018 5:18PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let's see - a StamSorc would count as what then? - blue or green or maybe some other color? And what decides which rank he will get? Maybe he is a warrior who is just using some of the magic as support - as what does he count then?0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, that would be desiredI’m short it’s a numeric that determines you’re min/max based on th skills you have assigned.
100 being the max and 1 being the lowest
Very simple
How they measure.....is already being done so unless there is a problem with their coding this is a simplification of data request only.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Nihility42✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isNewBlacksmurf wrote: »Nihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Nihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »WatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skills
But who decides how those stats and skills weigh in the calculation? Who decides what is best and what stats most heavily affect it? Who takes the time to fix it every time there is a balance change? What happens when a developer designs the formula and it doesn't match what players are actually looking for in the game and a "level" 60 healer is better than a level 100 due to a bad formula?
I still don't see how this could be calculated in a way that makes it an better or more impartial than CP. And if CP isn't enough, asking for DPS numbers or prior experience or whatever.
@Nihility42
The system. The developers as they are who actively buff, nerf and change these stats and effects every update.
I could be mistaken but these calculations are already being done.
What’s missing is an effective display that’s simple and easily shown.
What I’m saying is the game already determines what the combination of stats, gear and skills produce.
All this is doing is showing a colored number using a scale of 1-100
The point of that scale is regardless of the changes made, the indicator represents an easily understandable result.
In essence nothing you do now changes and the devs will continue to do what they do.....as a result tho, you would actually see if any change you made or that they make results in an actual buff or nerf to this number so we can adjust accordingly
This isn’t going to determine how effective someone plays a build as that’s another thing altogether, but it does replace the CP number in the UI when looking at another character so you know if their build is “good, great, bad, etc” depending on their choices.
It’s just a clean indicator
These calculations are being done? You think the devs have some sort of complicated algorithm to determine how good players are at their role? I mean, I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it. I don't say this to be mean, but it doesn't sound like you understand how the game works very well.
Yeah, there are some stats that are already calculated, such as max stats or weapon/spell damage, but even in a DPS toon that doesn't tell the whole story. You'd have to have some sort of check or multiplier based on skills used for it to mean anything.
And what about a tank or a healer? Those roles are even more flexible and less based on raw stats. There are still a lot of variables that aren't captured with the stats available. It ends up being very subjective.
This doesn't do anything to improve CP, it just replaces one semi-meaningless number with an even more meaningless and inscrutable number. If this were implemented, we'd just have good players who get a low ranking getting instakicked all the time instead of good low CP players. It wouldn't solve the issue.
@Nihility42
The calculations are already being done. We heard more on this way back when they were testing the impacts of non CP campaigns as the amount of calculations, in theory was a contributing factor to other issues.
The calculations are the min and max of assigned stats, gear stats, and CP allotment as it relates to slotted skills.
It’s how the game determines skill effects, etc.
All they are doing is simply omg that so we can see it represented as a colored numberic. Using a scale of 1-100
They're doing damage and mitigation calculations, yes. I still don't understand how you can display that as a single number that means anything. Again, I think you have a deep misunderstanding of how the game works, at least behind the scenes.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, that would be desiredLet's see - a StamSorc would count as what then? - blue or green or maybe some other color? And what decides which rank he will get? Maybe he is a warrior who is just using some of the magic as support - as what does he count then?
@Lysette
It counts as what it is.....
Your choices indicate how close you are to the possible min (1) or max (100)possible.
Very simple. Sorry if my OP complicates itEdited by NewBlacksmurf on February 8, 2018 5:23PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭umm, do people really have that much issue completing content in this game? I mean, I pug vet DLC dungeons all the time and am able to finish it 80%+ of the time regardless of the numbers by a name. If you are having problems pugging content...DONT PUG. Simple.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I don’t like that, I like CP as isNewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Nihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »WatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skills
But who decides how those stats and skills weigh in the calculation? Who decides what is best and what stats most heavily affect it? Who takes the time to fix it every time there is a balance change? What happens when a developer designs the formula and it doesn't match what players are actually looking for in the game and a "level" 60 healer is better than a level 100 due to a bad formula?
I still don't see how this could be calculated in a way that makes it an better or more impartial than CP. And if CP isn't enough, asking for DPS numbers or prior experience or whatever.
@Nihility42
The system. The developers as they are who actively buff, nerf and change these stats and effects every update.
I could be mistaken but these calculations are already being done.
What’s missing is an effective display that’s simple and easily shown.
What I’m saying is the game already determines what the combination of stats, gear and skills produce.
All this is doing is showing a colored number using a scale of 1-100
The point of that scale is regardless of the changes made, the indicator represents an easily understandable result.
In essence nothing you do now changes and the devs will continue to do what they do.....as a result tho, you would actually see if any change you made or that they make results in an actual buff or nerf to this number so we can adjust accordingly
This isn’t going to determine how effective someone plays a build as that’s another thing altogether, but it does replace the CP number in the UI when looking at another character so you know if their build is “good, great, bad, etc” depending on their choices.
It’s just a clean indicator
The developers nary have a clue about what sets ans skills are best. They get that information from players. Devs are not the experts. The players who actually spend the time to figure out what works best are the source of the best information. ICYMI builds often change some each update. Devs don't know how the builds will change each update.
So relying on this devs for this would be a mistake.
Seems like taking a straight forward system and making it more complicated and for someone it will become burdensome.
I still vote no
@idk
I think you’re adding something to this not mentioned.
I comprehend you and others are concerns that the developers don’t know what skills or stats are good/bad/indifferent.
This idea is simply using those existing calculations to produce a numberic with a color indicator.
Specifically meaning this, after you assign stats, CP and slot skills there is a max value each skill can reach
That value may change with each update however, the indicator is telling you and others on a scale of 1-100 how your choices relate on that scale.
It has nothing to do with the developer getting it right or wrong, it’s based of max and min set values through the calculations that already exist.
So now if you group and you see someone using X or Y abilities and it seems futile you know why and also if they seem good or great you know why.
You also have insight because you’re measured by the same scale.
The scale seems as arbitrary as the value of such a system.
So a player swaps out skills and gear until they see a good color grade. They them think they have a good build.
They got that score merely because they slotted skills and some gear that games the system. If you think such an idea wouldn't work that way then your greatly mistaken.1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, that would be desiredNewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Nihility42 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »WatchYourSixx wrote: »So what you're saying is you want something like a gearscore? Displayed on your character with color indicating class type?
@WatchYourSixx @idk
Yes to a simple indicator but No to “gear score” only due to the games it’s used in and that isnt what I believe is useful information in those games. Games like WoW, Destiny, Th Division, LoTRO
@Nihility42 and @Zorgon_The_Revenged
The calculations in my head would involve player stats, gear stats and skills slotted
Nothing else matters as this would constantly change if you’re scaled or change gear and skills
But who decides how those stats and skills weigh in the calculation? Who decides what is best and what stats most heavily affect it? Who takes the time to fix it every time there is a balance change? What happens when a developer designs the formula and it doesn't match what players are actually looking for in the game and a "level" 60 healer is better than a level 100 due to a bad formula?
I still don't see how this could be calculated in a way that makes it an better or more impartial than CP. And if CP isn't enough, asking for DPS numbers or prior experience or whatever.
@Nihility42
The system. The developers as they are who actively buff, nerf and change these stats and effects every update.
I could be mistaken but these calculations are already being done.
What’s missing is an effective display that’s simple and easily shown.
What I’m saying is the game already determines what the combination of stats, gear and skills produce.
All this is doing is showing a colored number using a scale of 1-100
The point of that scale is regardless of the changes made, the indicator represents an easily understandable result.
In essence nothing you do now changes and the devs will continue to do what they do.....as a result tho, you would actually see if any change you made or that they make results in an actual buff or nerf to this number so we can adjust accordingly
This isn’t going to determine how effective someone plays a build as that’s another thing altogether, but it does replace the CP number in the UI when looking at another character so you know if their build is “good, great, bad, etc” depending on their choices.
It’s just a clean indicator
The developers nary have a clue about what sets ans skills are best. They get that information from players. Devs are not the experts. The players who actually spend the time to figure out what works best are the source of the best information. ICYMI builds often change some each update. Devs don't know how the builds will change each update.
So relying on this devs for this would be a mistake.
Seems like taking a straight forward system and making it more complicated and for someone it will become burdensome.
I still vote no
@idk
I think you’re adding something to this not mentioned.
I comprehend you and others are concerns that the developers don’t know what skills or stats are good/bad/indifferent.
This idea is simply using those existing calculations to produce a numberic with a color indicator.
Specifically meaning this, after you assign stats, CP and slot skills there is a max value each skill can reach
That value may change with each update however, the indicator is telling you and others on a scale of 1-100 how your choices relate on that scale.
It has nothing to do with the developer getting it right or wrong, it’s based of max and min set values through the calculations that already exist.
So now if you group and you see someone using X or Y abilities and it seems futile you know why and also if they seem good or great you know why.
You also have insight because you’re measured by the same scale.
The scale seems as arbitrary as the value of such a system.
So a player swaps out skills and gear until they see a good color grade. They them think they have a good build.
They got that score merely because they slotted skills and some gear that games the system. If you think such an idea wouldn't work that way then your greatly mistaken.
@idk
While I’m not trying to get you to agree or be in support of my idea, to your point, I think it’s worth mentioning that’s exactly what people are doing now.
Grind to max CP and they expect that to qualify them or mean they are good.
In another example people are using builds online and referring to themselves X build with X gear to suggest they are good.
That behavior isn’t going to change.
This idea isn’t to address that at all.
This idea hopes to address the arbitrary CP numeric we see that gives little to no understanding to the player.
While this may not be the best way to go about it, the focus of more meaningful indicators, it’s something that makes sense vs what we see now as the intent is towards meaningful indicators bs useless indicator.
One thing we know, there is a min and max value per skill associated with our stats, gear, gear stats, food, etc.
also people understand a 1-100 scale better than scales with inconsistent tables
Lastly people every week are asking for different updates or add-ons to help them better understand how effective their choices are.
This is just my attempt. But hopefully I’m not confusing it too much. From your comments, I think I’m being clearer....maybe not. But you do seem to understand it better and are pointing out very viable points of concerns.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on February 8, 2018 5:37PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udNHsk57f24