ZOS, please detox this game a little bit. Show other people's CP up to a maximum of 160!

LadyLavina · February 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

Back when veteran ranks were still a thing, you could only see "VR16" as players' maximum level. However, CP still existed. Some people had 160, others had 1000. But no one could see the amount of people's CP. Once the VR ranks were gone, toxicity started (that didn't exist before):

* People getting insta-kicked from dungeon finder for low CP, usually most people below 400. It has become an established thing.
* "LFG XY 690+" - no matter if it's Vet DLC dungeons or normal trials. How are new people supposed to learn this way?
* The system forces players to blindly and skilllessly grind CP instead of playing the actual game and becoming better at one's class. One of the reasons I always encounter 690+ people in group finder that have zero idea what they are doing. Grinding CP makes no sense. A person without skill won't be able to utilize them effectively anyway. People should just play the game and gain CP naturally.

Prior to the VR removal, the grouping environment, be it zone or group finder, was much less toxic. The community was doing great.

ZOS, please consider making personal CP invisible to other players and only show max gear CP (10/20/.../150/160) as players' levels.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

@Meld777 Nope, because some dungeons go much smoother with higher cp. (Veteran ICP, Veteran CoS, Veteran RoM, etc). Higher cp group mates can result in a much faster run. After a certain amount of time in/runs done, you just want to clear things and not have to baby/teach people along the way.All this would do is make a lot of people miserable.

FakeFox · February 2018

Don't know what is toxic about end game players wanting to have a good experience instead of carrying people, but whatever.
There are tons of ways around that for newer players. How about finding a guild that is okay with helping newer players?
ESO already has pretty much no transparency, and it honestly kind of sucks. You cant see what gear other people are wearing, how they are skilled, their DPS or what achievements they have. Before I stared with ESO I was playing other MMOs where you could see those things and in my opinion it helped toxicity a lot, as you could check what you are getting into, people couldn't lie about how good they are and you pretty much never had to kick anybody as you simply didn't play with those people in the first place. It also makes it easier for newer Players to understand why they are weaker then others, as they can see the difference in Gear and Skills.

LadyLavina · February 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

Don't know what is toxic about end game players wanting to have a good experience instead of carrying people, but whatever.
There are tons of ways around that for newer players. How about finding a guild that is okay with heaping newer players?
ESO already has pretty much no transparency, and it honestly kind of sucks. You cant what gear other people are wearing, how they are skilled, their DPS or what achievements they have. Before I stared with ESO I was playing other MMOs where you could see those things and in my opinion it helped toxicity a lot, as you could check what you are getting into, people couldn't lie about how good they are and you pretty much never had to kick anybody as you simply didn't play with those people in the first place. It also makes it easier for newer Players to understand why they are weaker then others, as they can see the difference in Gear and Skills.

@FakeFox 10/10. Said far better than my own reply xD

ZOS_Mika · February 2018

We have recently removed some unnecessary comments from this thread. While it is fine to disagree, we expect community members to remain civil and respectful. Please keep that in mind as this thread continues.

AhPook_Is_Here · February 2018

You know what would make everyone happy, just have the random group queuer, queue people together in CP brackets of 100 or 150, then put a difficulty multiplier on the vet content where fresh 0 cp players experience vet content as something slightly harder than normal dungeons, and max CP players experience something equal to or even more challenging than what they get now and get some better material and gold rewards or larger quantities of tokens or special crafting materials.

Inarre · February 2018

gminkalis_ESO wrote: »

No

You use the example LFG XY CP690. That is a group any low CP should specifically avoid no matter what the dungeon.
Don't join elite groups if you don't meet the requirements.

Hold on. Let me hop on my cp690 warden with 30 skill points and blue gear. I will CARRY this elite squad with my 5k dps!

Inarre · February 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS isn't going to let you have access to everyone else' DPS count. There's too much potential for griefing, naming-and-shaming, and harassment

Yet they let us have access to their cp to do the same thing.... HM.

xbobx · February 2018

the high CP can be no better. Those annoying ones that run forward training half the mobs only for them to come back and kill the squishy DD left.

I also dont quite agree with fakefox's post. I don't think a lot of it is about carrying people, or not all that. its the attitude that only the meta works. I see this in all mmos i have played. People are very black and white in their thinking and do not see the gray sometimes.

Every high level player must be good idea and yet i see so many of them straight up suck or are incredibly lazy.

LeagueTroll · February 2018

Rev Rielle wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.

Instead of kicking and being rude, you should ask them if they'd like any help and try to advise in a respectful, patient manner.
Be part of the solution moving towards a better community, not part of the problem of elitist trash in the game. Those are the bad players in most people's eyes.

Lol git gud, and 10k dps are they bad players, not the 25k ones who refuse to carry.

Tan9oSuccka · February 2018

No thanks.

Some content just doesn’t jive well for CP174s. Sorry.

Blackleopardex · February 2018

The irony here is that high cp does not mean good player or even high dps.. I have run countless of vet dungeons with people between 100 cp and 500 cp and on the other hand we have kicked people with 600, 700, 800 or even 900 cp because they had no idea what they where doing. That said ye it's not that common to find a player with 700+ that does not know how to do a vet dungeon.

If you see people looking for a 690+ player, they are allowed to do so. In some cases, it says more about their own level then yours. Just move on and find people that wanna play with you, there are people like that too.

There is no point in hiding the cp of players, the only thing you will achieve with this is that the same groups asking for 690+ players will start looking for achievements instead. Giving even less players access to these kinds of groups. In the end of the day you can't stop the players doing this, they will find a way. And i don't mind, it's their cup of tea.

And in some content(rarely seen in zonechat) like veteran trials, you in some cases need a certain amount of cp just to do your part in the trial!?

So no, I prefer that we can see how much cp someone has. Can only say that people should think twice before they don't take someone with them because of their cp.. Because like I said, in many cases 690+ cp does not mean high dps or a good player

LiquidPony · February 2018

Pwnyridah wrote: »

This is a terrible idea. To detox, remove freeloaders by putting higher cp caps on tougher content. Put the time in and earn that cp!

[In David Attenborough's voice]

And here we have a rare sighting of Tamriel's most detestable parasite: C.P. Elitus Entitleus.

Katahdin · February 2018

I have to disagree with this suggestion.

I don't want to be forced into a vet dlc dungeon with <160 CP players.

Why? Because 99% of the time, it's a waste of time trying to complete. How do I know this? I always give every group a chance til the first or even second boss and see how they do. Ive never been abe to complete a vet dlc dungeon with low CP DPS and sometimes healers in the group.

LordSemaj · February 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

I have to disagree with this suggestion.

I don't want to ne dorced into a vet dlc dungeon with <160 CP players.

Why? Because 99% of the time, it's a waste of time trying to complete

And here we have someone who never read the suggestion or title.

VaranisArano · February 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

I have to disagree with this suggestion.

I don't want to ne dorced into a vet dlc dungeon with <160 CP players.

Why? Because 99% of the time, it's a waste of time trying to complete

You can't be. Since Clockwork City, players have to be at least CP 160 to queue for Vet DLC dungeons.

The OP is suggesting that everyone over CP 160 simply looks like they have CP 160, so nobody gets to deliberately kick people for having, say, CP 200.

LiquidPony · February 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

I have to disagree with this suggestion.

I don't want to ne dorced into a vet dlc dungeon with <160 CP players.

Why? Because 99% of the time, it's a waste of time trying to complete

I am totally not surprised that the CP elitists are the type of people who are oblivious to the fact that the Activity Finder has been requiring you to be CP160 to queue for vet DLC dungeons (and vCoA 2 and vCoH 2) for the past 4 months.

And you're not disagreeing with the suggestion at all, because OP's suggestion is that you can only see CP up to CP160.

Insert facepalm.jpg

Vahrokh · February 2018

LordSemaj wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.

Not a second before ESO brings in appropriate tutorials about how to exploit its bugs (aka animation cancelling, LA weaving etc.) to get to such amount of DPS people won't kick those who don't know about that.

Also, your scenario immediately kicks out whoever had no luck getting vMA weapon + monster set etc. etc.

Vahrokh · February 2018

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Cp just means you been playing the game longer and most people when they play a game longer are better

These days CP690 only means you have found a good bot to grind Al'Akir dolmens for you.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · February 2018

Vahrokh · February 2018

lardvader wrote: »

Might be wrong here but I seem to remember ppl asking for the number of CP when vet ranks existed as well.

I'm fine either way if it says cp 160 as max or the actual number. I never kick just based on cp. I never pug dlc dungeons either

People have very short memory here.

Before "numbers", people would just demand to link the achievement. It's how it worked, even if it's brutal on new players to demand achievement for the content they cannot ever do because they don't have the achievement and get kicked.

Feanor · February 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.

Not a second before ESO brings in appropriate tutorials about how to exploit its bugs (aka animation cancelling, LA weaving etc.) to get to such amount of DPS people won't kick those who don't know about that.

Also, your scenario immediately kicks out whoever had no luck getting vMA weapon + monster set etc. etc.

You don’t need any of these requirements to reach a solid 15 to 20k, which is all most ever ask from a DD.

Greevir · February 2018

You'll still get kicked at the first boss for your crap DPS.

SoLooney · February 2018

lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes

ill agree, just being max cp doesnt mean you are compotent or skilled but its more likely a 690 will carry their own weight compared to a 160 cp.

if you want more transparency in cp, then let us see dps numbers from group mates

Vahrokh · February 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.

Not a second before ESO brings in appropriate tutorials about how to exploit its bugs (aka animation cancelling, LA weaving etc.) to get to such amount of DPS people won't kick those who don't know about that.

Also, your scenario immediately kicks out whoever had no luck getting vMA weapon + monster set etc. etc.

You don’t need any of these requirements to reach a solid 15 to 20k, which is all most ever ask from a DD.

I play since beta and have seen ALL kind of players exclusions.

Once you establish a new base, everybody demands at least that base.
Nowadays most non casual guilds demand demonstrable 30k DPS.

I have yet to see anyone getting invited to a vet dungeon if he states he does 15k-20k. I know it's enough, but people don't settle for "enough", they want Superman so they cut dungeon run time by a whole 2%.

Anyway in the past I have witnessed:

- Entire classes being excluded from trials "because it sucks". People looking for replacement because I rolled a Dunmer and not Altmer.
- People being demanded to link gear.
- People being demanded to link achievement for the same content they have yet to do the first time. It's actually what some people are suggesting (again) in another thread.
- People being demanded to prove DPS > XX.

Yet, I've played with people passing all those requirements and still suck really hard.
On my alts I've done 25k DPS in vet pledges and Combat Metrics would show my DPS was 80% of the group. A group where I was the only one below 690.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · February 2018

SoLooney wrote: »

lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes

ill agree, just being max cp doesnt mean you are compotent or skilled but its more likely a 690 will carry their own weight compared to a 160 cp.

if you want more transparency in cp, then let us see dps numbers from group mates

Yea. Most of the people wanting to hide cp and saying that max cp does not mean skill are not wanting to show their dps.
Hmm wonder why?

LordSemaj · February 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.

Not a second before ESO brings in appropriate tutorials about how to exploit its bugs (aka animation cancelling, LA weaving etc.) to get to such amount of DPS people won't kick those who don't know about that.

Also, your scenario immediately kicks out whoever had no luck getting vMA weapon + monster set etc. etc.

I explain those concepts regularly to those who don't understand them. The problem isn't that they're unknown, the problem is people don't care to bother to learn them because it complicates their fun time and requires practice. They just want to go into dungeons and hit buttons in a certain order like every other MMO where that actually works. It doesn't work in ESO.

Also, no one requires maelstrom gear or monster sets. Actually look at a DPS parse sometime. The contributions to damage these things bring is minimal. First and foremost is rotation. People who think you need VO jewelry for the extra 5% dmg fail to realize that Agility offers about the same damage. Hundings Rage is a crafted set that still sees use because it's actually not that much worse from other sets. Min-maxers go for specific gear because it adds tiny percentages to their parses or functions in a raiding environment to benefit the group (like Sunderflame boosting other stamina user damage).

Such gear is not required for good damage. Knowing how the game works is. Rotation and exploiting these bugs that Zenimax has decided are part of the game now and balances content expecting we'll use them. Cancelling adds a level of skill to combat that separates the low damagers from the high ones. But hey, if you can't cancel well, or are awful at rotations, there are ways to alleviate that. Macros for starters. Or playing a class like Mag Sorc with the world's easiest rotation.

Delimber · February 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Apologies, @Delimber , it's hard to tell the serious from the sarcastic/satire sometimes.

I know, no worries.

Katahdin · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

I have to disagree with this suggestion.

I don't want to ne dorced into a vet dlc dungeon with <160 CP players.

Why? Because 99% of the time, it's a waste of time trying to complete

I am totally not surprised that the CP elitists are the type of people who are oblivious to the fact that the Activity Finder has been requiring you to be CP160 to queue for vet DLC dungeons (and vCoA 2 and vCoH 2) for the past 4 months.

And you're not disagreeing with the suggestion at all, because OP's suggestion is that you can only see CP up to CP160.

Insert facepalm.jpg

I still disagree that > 160 should be hidden

I think VET DLC should be 300CP min.
MOST regular vet dungeons are fine at CP 160 or below.

I'm not a CP elitist, I've started vet DLC dungeons with players less than 160 CP and even ones below 50 and give them a chance to prove to me they can do it. I never kick someone at the outset.

I rarely see anyone below 300 that can actually carry their own weight and not have to be carried and/or rezed constantly. I've helped carry enough of them. Spending hours trying to drag them through just to fail on the last boss if you even get to the last boss is tiresome and a waste of everyone's time.

Ive taught mechanics many times and given them repeat chances at a boss many times. You can try to teach them every detail of the mechanics. If they arent ready and just can't handle it yet, no amount of teaching is going to change that without them getting more CP, or skill points or gear or adjusting their build. Not gona happen.

I dont mean they need VO or maelstrom gear or even monster sets either, just good, complete sets with appropriate runes and traits and at least purple level.

The dungeon will be there. They can come back when they are ready

VaranisArano · February 2018

SoLooney wrote: »

lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes

ill agree, just being max cp doesnt mean you are compotent or skilled but its more likely a 690 will carry their own weight compared to a 160 cp.

if you want more transparency in cp, then let us see dps numbers from group mates

Because transparency isn't the goal of this.

Its the opposite of transparent, actually. The OP wants everyone above CP 160 to show up at CP 160. That means people can't kick people at a glance for being low CP for the content.

The supposed benefit of this is that now groups have to actually fight in order to assess the competence or lack thereof of the players in their groups before they kick anyone. Theoretically, this means that skilled players who currently are kicked for low DPS have a chance to show their skills while poor players who are currently benefiting from the appearance of high or max CP will now be quickly shown for the low skill players they are.

Theoretically, anyway. I'm sure we'd get many more complaints about people getting pulled into partially completed dungeons if this were implemented.

xaraan · February 2018

Well, aside from the fact that it's so easy to level now this shouldn't be much of a problem for new players to get past, it's not the game, it's some of the people.

My friends and I have never worried about this, we don't even care if someone is at CP160. We've done vHM trials without people being at cp cap. You just are using the bad apples as the example to try and make it look like the whole community. And chances are, the players making those requirements know they aren't good enough and need someone as powerful as possible and would probably end up kicking the person for some other reason even if they didn't know their CP.