Remove the Dual Bar Requirement for Bound Armor

ArchMikem · February 2018

I don't remember but what was the reason behind making it a requirement for Bound Armor to be slotted on both bars in order to remain activated? I think I remember it didn't used to be that way a long time ago, where you only had to slot it on one bar, (your Buff bar), then it'd stay on when you'd swap out. It'd be a major boon for Sorcs if this were the case again as we can make use of the extra magic while not having to sacrifice a slot on our combat bar. (which is already the case when slotting Inner Light).

But I can already see the rebuttals. "This is a buff to PvE but a burden to PvP", right? Cause it'd just give Sorcs more power, even if slightly.

felipenepub17_ESO · February 2018

I agree. As a stamsorc I need to waste 2 precious skill slots in order to gain access to the stamina regen passive. There are no useful skills in this skill line for stamsorcs in PVP and it´s not worth to have bound armaments on both bars in PVP. Why has the be so hard to gain access to a Daedric Protection passive as a stam player?!

Slick_007 · February 2018

i have a sorc and while i do find using up slots on both bars kinda annoying, it would be far too powerful to remove this. and lets be honest, if you wanna swap bars and swap back, you can simply recast it.

or, the limitation gets removed, and would have to be removed from pets as well, and then they downgrade the crap outta them both since you no longer need them slotted. which is what you're asking for.

Foxic · February 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

i have a sorc and while i do find using up slots on both bars kinda annoying, it would be far too powerful to remove this. and lets be honest, if you wanna swap bars and swap back, you can simply recast it.

or, the limitation gets removed, and would have to be removed from pets as well, and then they downgrade the crap outta them both since you no longer need them slotted. which is what you're asking for.

"Far too powerful" what? Nightblade gets the same passive just for having a siphoning ability slotted which they will always have on both bars.

idk · February 2018

To remind OP, it is a summoned armor just like the summoned pets. That is the reason it is required to be on both bars.

It has always required being on both bars to be active on both bars during the past 4 years (cannot speak for before 4 years ago), iircc.

I main a mSorc atm and see no issue with it having to be on both bars. The reason a magick build uses it is for the strong max magicka buff. It is really no different than Inner Lights requirement to be on both bars.

Other than OP indicating he does not want to have it on both bars no actual reasoning has been given for it to be changed.

GrumpyDuckling · February 2018

I think the dual bar requirement for Bound Armor is fine. But I think Bound Armor should activate the Expert Summoner passive (Increass your Max Health by 8% if you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.)

Yes, I know that Bound Armor is not a "pet," but because it operates in the same manner as a pet (needs to be slotted on both bars to remain active) I think it makes sense to have it proc Expert Summoner.

Slick_007 · February 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I think the dual bar requirement for Bound Armor is fine. But I think Bound Armor should activate the Expert Summoner passive (Increass your Max Health by 8% if you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.)

Yes, I know that Bound Armor is not a "pet," but because it operates in the same manner as a pet (needs to be slotted on both bars to remain active) I think it makes sense to have it proc Expert Summoner.

hey, who let the person with a reasonable suggestion into these forums? next time lock the door would ya? can't let people suggest reasonable stuff like this.

JohnStorm · February 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I think the dual bar requirement for Bound Armor is fine. But I think Bound Armor should activate the Expert Summoner passive (Increass your Max Health by 8% if you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.)

Yes, I know that Bound Armor is not a "pet," but because it operates in the same manner as a pet (needs to be slotted on both bars to remain active) I think it makes sense to have it proc Expert Summoner.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please consider passing this feedback to the devs. Even such a small buff will help non-pet magsorcs a lot in PVE.

Harrdarrzarr · February 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I think the dual bar requirement for Bound Armor is fine. But I think Bound Armor should activate the Expert Summoner passive (Increass your Max Health by 8% if you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.)

Yes, I know that Bound Armor is not a "pet," but because it operates in the same manner as a pet (needs to be slotted on both bars to remain active) I think it makes sense to have it proc Expert Summoner.

hey, who let the person with a reasonable suggestion into these forums? next time lock the door would ya? can't let people suggest reasonable stuff like this.

Because we summoned a shield:) It's part of the summoning skill-line, so it's sounds kinda weird but fair to also gain the 8% healthbonus. Expert summoner passive should work for whatever has been summoned by that skill-line, not just pets.

GrumpyDuckling · February 2018

Harrdarrzarr wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I think the dual bar requirement for Bound Armor is fine. But I think Bound Armor should activate the Expert Summoner passive (Increass your Max Health by 8% if you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.)

Yes, I know that Bound Armor is not a "pet," but because it operates in the same manner as a pet (needs to be slotted on both bars to remain active) I think it makes sense to have it proc Expert Summoner.

hey, who let the person with a reasonable suggestion into these forums? next time lock the door would ya? can't let people suggest reasonable stuff like this.

Because we summoned a shield:) It's part of the summoning skill-line, so it's sounds kinda weird but fair to also gain the 8% healthbonus. Expert summoner passive should work for whatever has been summoned by that skill-line, not just pets.

I've grappled with whether or not Conjured Ward should also activate Expert Summoner (that would mean all skills in this line except Daedric Curse would proc Expert Summoner), but came to the conclusion that because it is a single slotted, oft-used skill it would be too strong.

Lynx7386 · February 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I think the dual bar requirement for Bound Armor is fine. But I think Bound Armor should activate the Expert Summoner passive (Increass your Max Health by 8% if you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.)

Yes, I know that Bound Armor is not a "pet," but because it operates in the same manner as a pet (needs to be slotted on both bars to remain active) I think it makes sense to have it proc Expert Summoner.

As a sorc tank I agree. I really hate not getting that health passive because I don't have a pet out. Bound armor should count for it too, while active.

Beardimus · February 2018

Yes please. Remove the toggle. Pew pew

JobooAGS · February 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I think the dual bar requirement for Bound Armor is fine. But I think Bound Armor should activate the Expert Summoner passive (Increass your Max Health by 8% if you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.)

Yes, I know that Bound Armor is not a "pet," but because it operates in the same manner as a pet (needs to be slotted on both bars to remain active) I think it makes sense to have it proc Expert Summoner.

If they change this, I may pick up my stam sorc again...

Draxys · February 2018

It was always a double bar skill. And if they do this, I can see them making it into a buff skill, which would be significantly worse than having to simply take an extra skill slot, IMO. I don’t want to micro manage yet another buff skill.

And I know it’s very wonky to take advantage of it, but keep in mind sorcs have 4 extra skill slots when using this skill and their toggle ult. I’m aware that its existence doesn’t necessarily mean your suggestion shouldn’t happen, but that is a very useful thing that’s unique to sorc.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I think the dual bar requirement for Bound Armor is fine. But I think Bound Armor should activate the Expert Summoner passive (Increass your Max Health by 8% if you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.)

Yes, I know that Bound Armor is not a "pet," but because it operates in the same manner as a pet (needs to be slotted on both bars to remain active) I think it makes sense to have it proc Expert Summoner.

Never thought about that, but couldnt agree more.

ArchMikem · February 2018

idk wrote: »

Other than OP indicating he does not want to have it on both bars no actual reasoning has been given for it to be changed.

"Actual reasoning" you claim.

Having to slot it on both bars sacrifices another slot on the combat bar. You get a little more resource at the expense of less dps overall, and on my build it hurts. Ward (because of Infernal Guardian), Inner Light, Blockade, Liquid Lightning, and Frags.

Ward is necessary on the combat bar, frags is too valuable a proc to lose and blockade is needed for the debuff. Getting rid of liquid means I'm just casting blockade and then heavy attacking if not warding. Its incredibly difficult to increase your max magic to 40k if you're not playing the meta even though the class gives you a skill that helps the requirement is a burden.

KanedaSyndrome · February 2018

In general we need this for all activated abilities that for some reason are needed on 2 different bars to work. Same with warden bear, taking up both ultimate slots.

Lynx7386 · February 2018

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

In general we need this for all activated abilities that for some reason are needed on 2 different bars to work. Same with warden bear, taking up both ultimate slots.

The only way that's going to happen is if they're made into limited duration abilities, which nobody wants - it would make all abilities in question far worse.

Do you really want to have to bar swap and recast your pets or bound armor every 20 seconds? I sure as hell don't.

Abilities like this require both bars to remain active because they have an unlimited duration. If they stayed active without being on the bar, you'd be getting a free extra skill over other classes.

Minalan · February 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

In general we need this for all activated abilities that for some reason are needed on 2 different bars to work. Same with warden bear, taking up both ultimate slots.

The only way that's going to happen is if they're made into limited duration abilities, which nobody wants - it would make all abilities in question far worse.

Do you really want to have to bar swap and recast your pets or bound armor every 20 seconds? I sure as hell don't.

Abilities like this require both bars to remain active because they have an unlimited duration. If they stayed active without being on the bar, you'd be getting a free extra skill over other classes.

I’d be okay with making it a limited-time buff like lightning form. It needs to be more useful than it is though for the two bar slots that it eats up.

I like the 8% health idea for stamina Sorcs, who can use the buff. The 8% magicka buff alone is laughable when magblades get that much as a passive, just for slotting one skill.

Draxys · February 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

In general we need this for all activated abilities that for some reason are needed on 2 different bars to work. Same with warden bear, taking up both ultimate slots.

The only way that's going to happen is if they're made into limited duration abilities, which nobody wants - it would make all abilities in question far worse.

Do you really want to have to bar swap and recast your pets or bound armor every 20 seconds? I sure as hell don't.

Abilities like this require both bars to remain active because they have an unlimited duration. If they stayed active without being on the bar, you'd be getting a free extra skill over other classes.

I’d be okay with making it a limited-time buff like lightning form. It needs to be more useful than it is though for the two bar slots that it eats up.

I like the 8% health idea for stamina Sorcs, who can use the buff. The 8% magicka buff alone is laughable when magblades get that much as a passive, just for slotting one skill.

I don’t understand this complaint. 8% of a stat, additional bonuses from a passive or two, resistances and either speed or damage when cast.... how is that not as useful as a NB skill that does single target damage or dot, and gets 8% of a stat for being slotted? It’s different, sure, but still good. People should really stop acting like bound armor skills aren’t good, because they are. I’d give up 2 skill slots for that on my DK no question.

Lynx7386 · February 2018

Plus it stacks with inner light's magicka bonus. Combine that with necropotence and daedric prey and you have beastmode pet sorc.

NyassaV · February 2018

It's a toggle and needs to stay that way. Sorc needs a few buffs but this is not one of them

Apache_Kid · February 2018

As someone who plays a sorc as 2nd to main this would be over-powered.

s7732425ub17_ESO · February 2018

It could be an active buff instead of a toggle. 30 seconds would be fine. Anything shorter would be a waste.

Aliyavana · February 2018

idk wrote: »

To remind OP, it is a summoned armor just like the summoned pets. That is the reason it is required to be on both bars.

It has always required being on both bars to be active on both bars during the past 4 years (cannot speak for before 4 years ago), iircc.

I main a mSorc atm and see no issue with it having to be on both bars. The reason a magick build uses it is for the strong max magicka buff. It is really no different than Inner Lights requirement to be on both bars.

Other than OP indicating he does not want to have it on both bars no actual reasoning has been given for it to be changed.

It's pretty boring to waste 2 precious slots on one skill and this game already has only 10 basic skillslots which is pitiful for an mmo

Lynx7386 · February 2018

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

It could be an active buff instead of a toggle. 30 seconds would be fine. Anything shorter would be a waste.

Personally I would hate that. I already have enough micromanaging to do as a tank without having to worry about constantly re-applying bound armor.

The only change I'd like to see is for bound armor to activate the passive that gives 8% max health. Right now that passive requires either the clannfear/scamp or twilight to be active, none of which are used by sorc tanks (typically) and all of which require two skill slots just like bound armor does.

JiKama · February 2018

Op i can agree with ya!!! I've wondered why we must waste slots. Just make most buff/pet abilities have a timer on them like the siphon stam/Magicka nightblade ability or rally. It would open up for build diversity... I think

QuebraRegra · February 2018

idk wrote: »

To remind OP, it is a summoned armor just like the summoned pets. That is the reason it is required to be on both bars.

It has always required being on both bars to be active on both bars during the past 4 years (cannot speak for before 4 years ago), iircc.

I main a mSorc atm and see no issue with it having to be on both bars. The reason a magick build uses it is for the strong max magicka buff. It is really no different than Inner Lights requirement to be on both bars.

Other than OP indicating he does not want to have it on both bars no actual reasoning has been given for it to be changed.

I proly shouldn't bring this up, but my SHADES (pet) hangs out after a bar swap

Someday I may want to play a pet sorc and wouldn't mind not having to double bar the pet.

QuebraRegra · February 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

It could be an active buff instead of a toggle. 30 seconds would be fine. Anything shorter would be a waste.

Personally I would hate that. I already have enough micromanaging to do as a tank without having to worry about constantly re-applying bound armor.

The only change I'd like to see is for bound armor to activate the passive that gives 8% max health. Right now that passive requires either the clannfear/scamp or twilight to be active, none of which are used by sorc tanks (typically) and all of which require two skill slots just like bound armor does.

Agreed.. it sucks managing the SHADE uptime... although nice for one bar.

LiquidPony · February 2018

Seems to me that sorcs are already very strong and this would be an over buff. IMO, in PvE, stamsorc is the best all-around DPS build in the game right now. And sure, magblades outperform sorcs in the hands of good players, but I think the average player will perform better on a magsorc.

In fact, I'd say that the double-slot requirement of pets and Bound Armor is part of what makes sorcs unique and great. Their skill setups tend to be very simple. They have a lot of passive damage. This tends to be more effective in a lot of fights, compared to say a nightblade, where movement/mechanics/stuns/immunity/whatever screw up traditional target skeleton rotations. I enjoy the simplicity and power of a sorc DPS rotation versus more fast-paced builds, and I like that there's a unique feel for each class.

Bound Armaments in particular would need significant adjustments if it were a buff rather than a toggle. Likely the removal of either the 5% max stam bonus or the 11% heavy attack damage bonus (or maybe remove both and grant access to a Minor/Major buff not current in the sorc kit; because who doesn't love homogenization?) Those 2 things + Minor Resolve would make for a ridiculously strong skill absent the requirement to have it on both bars.

Compare the utility of Bound Armaments to Molten Armaments or Mirage, for instance.

Lynx7386 · February 2018

QuebraRegra wrote: »

idk wrote: »

To remind OP, it is a summoned armor just like the summoned pets. That is the reason it is required to be on both bars.

It has always required being on both bars to be active on both bars during the past 4 years (cannot speak for before 4 years ago), iircc.

I main a mSorc atm and see no issue with it having to be on both bars. The reason a magick build uses it is for the strong max magicka buff. It is really no different than Inner Lights requirement to be on both bars.

Other than OP indicating he does not want to have it on both bars no actual reasoning has been given for it to be changed.

I proly shouldn't bring this up, but my SHADES (pet) hangs out after a bar swap Someday I may want to play a pet sorc and wouldn't mind not having to double bar the pet.

Shades only last 15 seconds.