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New Achievement Concept: Damage Per Second
LordSemaj
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We all know how achievements are character bound instead of account wide and this creates some measure of annoyance for some. But what if we used that to our advantage? I propose ZOS implements new achievements based on your best DPS for either dummy parses or raid bosses. There could even be a dummy trial where the entire raid fights a wooden doll for the express purpose of measuring each person's damage under ideal circumstances. Stack all the raid buffs, spell power cure, and pots you want to try to exploit as high a total as you'd like. All it really means is that under ideal circumstances you actually CAN reach those totals. Players may even be encouraged to find group comps that stack all the right advantages for maximizing the output with a leaderboard tracking the highest parses.
The achievement reward? Titles of "The Destructive" for hitting 30k, "The Penetrator" for hitting 40k, "The Annihilator" for 50k dps, and so on. Or heck, a title that varies according to what your highest parse was: "of the 38k DPS". If you don't feel like bragging you can keep it yourself but it's a quicker means of showing people your damage potential than sharing parses. Now I know the DPS total doesn't necessarily reflect what you'll do in dungeons, especially if you respecced to something worse or aren't wearing the right gear or just are feeling lazy. But it would reflect what you have achieved and since many claim that skill is most of your damage anyway then this achievement demonstrates your potential level of mastery.
The achievement reward? Titles of "The Destructive" for hitting 30k, "The Penetrator" for hitting 40k, "The Annihilator" for 50k dps, and so on. Or heck, a title that varies according to what your highest parse was: "of the 38k DPS". If you don't feel like bragging you can keep it yourself but it's a quicker means of showing people your damage potential than sharing parses. Now I know the DPS total doesn't necessarily reflect what you'll do in dungeons, especially if you respecced to something worse or aren't wearing the right gear or just are feeling lazy. But it would reflect what you have achieved and since many claim that skill is most of your damage anyway then this achievement demonstrates your potential level of mastery.
6
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josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, I don't think so. It will make the ridiculous "LFG DPS for vFGI 300+CP" type of zone post even worse.23 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It'd make life more annoying, honestly. There's plenty of players who can pull 30k on a dummy parse, but have 10k health and will die if the boss looks at them funny. But, it would lead to more elitism from players who are borderline competent to begin with.21 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭No, I don't think so. It will make the ridiculous "LFG DPS for vFGI 300+CP" type of zone post even worse.
Quite the contrary, rather than judging you based on your CP, you could simply link them the achievement showing you can reach the required totals. Those CP requirements exist to ensure the players have the bare minimum needed to clear the content. If there was a way to show your max DPS to people, it wouldn't be necessary to impose CP minimums.1 -
Enemy-of-Coldharbour✭✭✭✭✭
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Silivren (Silly) Thalionwen | Altmer Templar | Magicka | 9-Trait Master Crafter/Jeweler | Master Angler | PVE Main - Killed by U35
Jahsul at-Sahan | Redguard Sorcerer | Stamina | Werewolf - Free Bites | PVP Main
Derrok Gunnolf | Redguard Dragonknight | Stamina | Werewolf - Free Bites
Liliana Littleleaf | 9-Trait Grand Master Crafter/Jeweler (non-combat)
Amber Emberheart | Breton Dragonknight | Stamina | Master Angler
Vlos Anon | Dunmer Nightblade | Magicka | Vampire - Free Bites
Kalina Valos | Dunmer Warden | Magicka | Vampire - Free Bites
Swiftpaws-Moonshadow | Khajiit Nightblade | Stamina
Morgul Vardar | Altmer Necromancer | Magicka
Tithin Geil | Altmer Sorceress | Magicka
Dhryk | Imperial Dragonknight | Stamina
Guild Master - ESO Traders Union
PC/NA - CP 2560+36 -
Glockcoma725✭✭✭Can tanks have one for most damage received at once? And healers for most amount of hp restored for group at a time?PC-NA CP570 @Glockcoma725
Maximus Dezimus Meridius Tank DragonKight
Ri'Skarr DD Nightblade
Myrddin Emrys DD Sorceror
Smokes-All-Herbs Healer Templar
Azog the Defiler DD Warden11 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭Glockcoma725 wrote: »Can tanks have one for most damage received at once? And healers for most amount of hp restored for group at a time?
Healers healing a green dummy should be easy but is HP pool really what we want to judge tanks by?
Maybe tanks should have a Simon trial that judges them by how long they survive. It starts out easy with the mechanics telling you to block, taunt, sidestep, whatever and it just gets faster and faster until you eventually fail too many times.1 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, I don't think so. It will make the ridiculous "LFG DPS for vFGI 300+CP" type of zone post even worse.
Quite the contrary, rather than judging you based on your CP, you could simply link them the achievement showing you can reach the required totals. Those CP requirements exist to ensure the players have the bare minimum needed to clear the content. If there was a way to show your max DPS to people, it wouldn't be necessary to impose CP minimums.
My point is that the ridiculous "requirements" many people already list for some group they are trying to put together would just get worse, leading to even more people being excluded from content based on some arbitrary number. I see this all the time: "LF DPS for pledges 350CP+" When the pledges that day are fungal grotto 1, selenes web, and ICP. None of which require much damage to complete. It would only lead to more elitism.13 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »It'd make life more annoying, honestly. There's plenty of players who can pull 30k on a dummy parse, but have 10k health and will die if the boss looks at them funny. But, it would lead to more elitism from players who are borderline competent to begin with.
I have, legit, never met a high dps player who was that bad at mechanics. Sure they need to learn them like everybody but given a few chances they'll usually get it.
If you're hitting 30k dps you're obviously at least, trying to be good. Everybody knows high dps is worth nothing when you're dead so they will at least try to be good at staying alive.
I feel like people want to compensate for their low dps by claiming to know the mechanics so well. You probably only got to know the mechanics so well due to your low dps.
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josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »It'd make life more annoying, honestly. There's plenty of players who can pull 30k on a dummy parse, but have 10k health and will die if the boss looks at them funny. But, it would lead to more elitism from players who are borderline competent to begin with.
I have, legit, never met a high dps player who was that bad at mechanics. Sure they need to learn them like everybody but given a few chances they'll usually get it.
If you're hitting 30k dps you're obviously at least, trying to be good. Everybody knows high dps is worth nothing when you're dead so they will at least try to be good at staying alive.
I feel like people want to compensate for their low dps by claiming to know the mechanics so well. You probably only got to know the mechanics so well due to your low dps.
I would rather have a DPS in group that knows the mechanics than say one who constantly decides to move in the dark when Velidreth says "don't move a muscle". You can have all the DPS in the world and it doesnt help anyone if you are laying there dead.8 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »It'd make life more annoying, honestly. There's plenty of players who can pull 30k on a dummy parse, but have 10k health and will die if the boss looks at them funny. But, it would lead to more elitism from players who are borderline competent to begin with.
I have, legit, never met a high dps player who was that bad at mechanics. Sure they need to learn them like everybody but given a few chances they'll usually get it.
If you're hitting 30k dps you're obviously at least, trying to be good. Everybody knows high dps is worth nothing when you're dead so they will at least try to be good at staying alive.
I feel like people want to compensate for their low dps by claiming to know the mechanics so well. You probably only got to know the mechanics so well due to your low dps.
I would rather have a DPS in group that knows the mechanics than say one who constantly decides to move in the dark when Velidreth says "don't move a muscle". You can have all the DPS in the world and it doesnt help anyone if you are laying there dead.
Likewise you can have all the mechanics knowledge in the world and it doesn't help the group if the healer is outdpsing you.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »It'd make life more annoying, honestly. There's plenty of players who can pull 30k on a dummy parse, but have 10k health and will die if the boss looks at them funny. But, it would lead to more elitism from players who are borderline competent to begin with.
I have, legit, never met a high dps player who was that bad at mechanics. Sure they need to learn them like everybody but given a few chances they'll usually get it.
If you're hitting 30k dps you're obviously at least, trying to be good. Everybody knows high dps is worth nothing when you're dead so they will at least try to be good at staying alive.
I feel like people want to compensate for their low dps by claiming to know the mechanics so well. You probably only got to know the mechanics so well due to your low dps.
I was, literally, in a dungeon 12 hours ago, with a player who brags about her 30k dummy parses, and spent most of the fights face down.
These players absolutely exist. I would be happy to have someone who could actually hit 20k consistently on the boss, over someone with a hypothetical 30, who takes a dirt nap everytime the boss looks at them funny.
Now, I'll grant you, I was learning mechanics for vICP last night I'd never seen before because the DPS was so low. But, I was the tank, that part's not on me.7 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. Those aren't even worth being achievements for the amount of cheese potential it has, not to mention the sheer amount of elitism this will inevitably generate.
Quite frankly, this is a terrible idea, and it takes a lot for me to call an idea terrible.Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
20 Argonians
6x IR, 7x GH, 7x TTT, 5x GS, 6x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 2x CB, 1x Unchained14 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭The people will become even more restrictive requiring these achieves before being invited into a group.
And that will just result in cheating to get the achieve so you can get into a group.
But if you like exclusive achieves that lock out players maybe wow is the game for you.6 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We all know how achievements are character bound instead of account wide and this creates some measure of annoyance for some. But what if we used that to our advantage? I propose ZOS implements new achievements based on your best DPS for either dummy parses or raid bosses. There could even be a dummy trial where the entire raid fights a wooden doll for the express purpose of measuring each person's damage under ideal circumstances. Stack all the raid buffs, spell power cure, and pots you want to try to exploit as high a total as you'd like. All it really means is that under ideal circumstances you actually CAN reach those totals. Players may even be encouraged to find group comps that stack all the right advantages for maximizing the output with a leaderboard tracking the highest parses.
The achievement reward? Titles of "The Destructive" for hitting 30k, "The Penetrator" for hitting 40k, "The Annihilator" for 50k dps, and so on. Or heck, a title that varies according to what your highest parse was: "of the 38k DPS". If you don't feel like bragging you can keep it yourself but it's a quicker means of showing people your damage potential than sharing parses. Now I know the DPS total doesn't necessarily reflect what you'll do in dungeons, especially if you respecced to something worse or aren't wearing the right gear or just are feeling lazy. But it would reflect what you have achieved and since many claim that skill is most of your damage anyway then this achievement demonstrates your potential level of mastery.No, I don't think so. It will make the ridiculous "LFG DPS for vFGI 300+CP" type of zone post even worse.
Quite the contrary, rather than judging you based on your CP, you could simply link them the achievement showing you can reach the required totals. Those CP requirements exist to ensure the players have the bare minimum needed to clear the content. If there was a way to show your max DPS to people, it wouldn't be necessary to impose CP minimums.
Which makes it worse...now it's going to be you have to have X CP and Y Achievement to run normal FG 1. This is the same thing that happened in WoW with the Gearscore mod. You started having people require like 5500 GS for raids that were like 4800 drops, and 75% of these groups would fail.9 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »It'd make life more annoying, honestly. There's plenty of players who can pull 30k on a dummy parse, but have 10k health and will die if the boss looks at them funny. But, it would lead to more elitism from players who are borderline competent to begin with.
I have, legit, never met a high dps player who was that bad at mechanics. Sure they need to learn them like everybody but given a few chances they'll usually get it.
If you're hitting 30k dps you're obviously at least, trying to be good. Everybody knows high dps is worth nothing when you're dead so they will at least try to be good at staying alive.
I feel like people want to compensate for their low dps by claiming to know the mechanics so well. You probably only got to know the mechanics so well due to your low dps.
I would rather have a DPS in group that knows the mechanics than say one who constantly decides to move in the dark when Velidreth says "don't move a muscle". You can have all the DPS in the world and it doesnt help anyone if you are laying there dead.
Though, serious kudoes to that healer I once ran vCoS with. They actually saved the other idiot DPS in the party when they got spiked from the ceiling.0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »We all know how achievements are character bound instead of account wide and this creates some measure of annoyance for some. But what if we used that to our advantage? I propose ZOS implements new achievements based on your best DPS for either dummy parses or raid bosses. There could even be a dummy trial where the entire raid fights a wooden doll for the express purpose of measuring each person's damage under ideal circumstances. Stack all the raid buffs, spell power cure, and pots you want to try to exploit as high a total as you'd like. All it really means is that under ideal circumstances you actually CAN reach those totals. Players may even be encouraged to find group comps that stack all the right advantages for maximizing the output with a leaderboard tracking the highest parses.
The achievement reward? Titles of "The Destructive" for hitting 30k, "The Penetrator" for hitting 40k, "The Annihilator" for 50k dps, and so on. Or heck, a title that varies according to what your highest parse was: "of the 38k DPS". If you don't feel like bragging you can keep it yourself but it's a quicker means of showing people your damage potential than sharing parses. Now I know the DPS total doesn't necessarily reflect what you'll do in dungeons, especially if you respecced to something worse or aren't wearing the right gear or just are feeling lazy. But it would reflect what you have achieved and since many claim that skill is most of your damage anyway then this achievement demonstrates your potential level of mastery.No, I don't think so. It will make the ridiculous "LFG DPS for vFGI 300+CP" type of zone post even worse.
Quite the contrary, rather than judging you based on your CP, you could simply link them the achievement showing you can reach the required totals. Those CP requirements exist to ensure the players have the bare minimum needed to clear the content. If there was a way to show your max DPS to people, it wouldn't be necessary to impose CP minimums.
Which makes it worse...now it's going to be you have to have X CP and Y Achievement to run normal FG 1. This is the same thing that happened in WoW with the Gearscore mod. You started having people require like 5500 GS for raids that were like 4800 drops, and 75% of these groups would fail.
Quite the opposite, I feel it improves it. For starters, the CP shouldn't still be a requirement with the achievement in place. There are many CP 690 who hit like a wet noodle because they purchased Skyreach carries and there are players under the 300 CP soft cap that pull high numbers through efficiency. If anything, the achievement would merely be a more accurate representation of capabilities than "how much time have you grinded skyreach". It's an improvement but the world isn't perfect.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Quite the opposite, I feel it improves it. For starters, the CP shouldn't still be a requirement with the achievement in place. There are many CP 690 who hit like a wet noodle because they purchased Skyreach carries and there are players under the 300 CP soft cap that pull high numbers through efficiency. If anything, the achievement would merely be a more accurate representation of capabilities than "how much time have you grinded skyreach". It's an improvement but the world isn't perfect.
Well, of course you'd think it's a good idea. Look, up front, CP being visible wasn't the best decision, but we're stuck with that choice now.
At the time, we said, "this will lead to more elitism, you'll have people setting requirements like, 'must be CR1000 for this run.'" And, you know what? That's happened. We're seeing people saying you need to be CP600 for intro vet dungeons.
DPS parses against a dummy are not indicative of someone's ability as a player. Right now there is very little incentive for players to use training dummies unless they're trying to get into a raiding guild, or legitimately trying to improve their efficiency. But, if you streamlined the process to the point where players were able to get achievements, which they could show as their "badge," on a whim? Then you'd see that stuff coming into normal dungeon thresholds from players looking for a carry.
Also worth noting, because of how level scaling works... you know how trivial it is to get a 40k DPS parse on a level 4 with crafted gear, right?5 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Quite the opposite, I feel it improves it. For starters, the CP shouldn't still be a requirement with the achievement in place. There are many CP 690 who hit like a wet noodle because they purchased Skyreach carries and there are players under the 300 CP soft cap that pull high numbers through efficiency. If anything, the achievement would merely be a more accurate representation of capabilities than "how much time have you grinded skyreach". It's an improvement but the world isn't perfect.
Well, of course you'd think it's a good idea. Look, up front, CP being visible wasn't the best decision, but we're stuck with that choice now.
At the time, we said, "this will lead to more elitism, you'll have people setting requirements like, 'must be CR1000 for this run.'" And, you know what? That's happened. We're seeing people saying you need to be CP600 for intro vet dungeons.
DPS parses against a dummy are not indicative of someone's ability as a player. Right now there is very little incentive for players to use training dummies unless they're trying to get into a raiding guild, or legitimately trying to improve their efficiency. But, if you streamlined the process to the point where players were able to get achievements, which they could show as their "badge," on a whim? Then you'd see that stuff coming into normal dungeon thresholds from players looking for a carry.
Also worth noting, because of how level scaling works... you know how trivial it is to get a 40k DPS parse on a level 4 with crafted gear, right?
Then you're suggesting that CP is a better measure of capability and should remain the metric by which people judge others. An improvement is an improvement, either you support CP as the defining label or you disagree that this improves upon it with a more accurate comparison. Because even devoid of a world of CP or dummies, people will (and still do) intentionally not fight a monster while watching a DPS player solo it to judge their damage. It's completely subjective, not at all ideal, and will happen regardless of the metrics that exist or not. CP was the choice of skill measurement for dungeon capabilities that people used because it was the only one visibly available. You're suggesting that it remain so instead of looking for an alternative to it that provides the information desired with less bias.
As for parse cheesing, that's literally the point. Everyone will be capable of parse cheesing so the highest figures will show up regardless and become the new standard. The dummy trial also didn't exist on a whim but to diminish the effects of said cheesing by ensuring as many buffs are available as possible. It's not perfect, that too is the point. If you have a perfect suggestion I'm all ears. But it's an improvement over what's currently used which does little beyond measure the age of an account, especially giving the free enlightenment boosts every day.1 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is the only MMO I have not ever seen that does not direct people how to do their job in an optimal way.
This is a great idea! I don’t think people should even be allowed to Q for vet dlc dungeon unless they can pull 20k in some sort of training grounds.Edited by KingYogi415 on February 7, 2018 9:35PM1 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
And it is garbarge, but doesn't mean people don't, or will stop doing it if this achievement would be put in.
Giving Elitists another number to judge people by will never improve the system.6 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭Quite the contrary, rather than judging you based on your CP, you could simply link them the achievement showing you can reach the required totals. Those CP requirements exist to ensure the players have the bare minimum needed to clear the content. If there was a way to show your max DPS to people, it wouldn't be necessary to impose CP minimums.
Wow did that with an AOTC achieve for raids and you know what happened ? An add-on got created to link fake achieves for people. So you ended up with a raid where 3/4 of the people linked a fake achieve they didn't have and the raid wiped of course.
Edited by Juju_beans on February 7, 2018 8:44PM1 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If there are already Achievements for obtaining the goal, why do you need an achievement for just one of the tools that get you there?Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"7
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