It's time to unlink max attribute from damage

Zer0oo · February 2018

Personally i would find it interesting if the damage type would scale of the max resource. e.g. surprise attack would still cost stam but deal magic damage, flame lash would cost mag but would do poison damage(maybe also a name change for some of the abilities)

At least the ultimate damage type should really scale of your max resource. It would would give so much more choice between ultimates.

ToRelax · February 2018

JackDaniell wrote: »

[...]

So what would make more hybrids viable?

I think brids are strong, but not quite compedative yet. To unlock a hybrids full potential without making them op i think thier is one simple fix.

Add a gold +max stam/mag + stam/mag regen food. Hybrids dont need the hp from food and this would provide the brid with huge regen and damage support. With this food my hybrids stats would be
23k hp (pvp)
26k mag/stam
1300 mag/stam regen (this is allot for a brid)
4900 wep/spell damage
32% wep/spell crit

Not bad eh?

I just think if they did this, we might just as well see max HP + max mag + mag reg + stam reg food and reverse for stamina. I'd rather have something adjusting balance more permanently like a change to the underlying systems. I'd probably favour continously increasing diminishing returns on several stats, most importantly max HP/stam/mag. The old softcap system was so limiting only because there was a breaking point where investment into a stat dropped very suddenly, making it the standard chosen amount for most builds.

Zer0oo wrote: »

Personally i would find it interesting if the damage type would scale of the max resource. e.g. surprise attack would still cost stam but deal magic damage, flame lash would cost mag but would do poison damage(maybe also a name change for some of the abilities)

At least the ultimate damage type should really scale of your max resource. It would would give so much more choice between ultimates.

If I understood you correctly, this sounds to me like you're just creating a mishmash of stam and magicka skills while simultaneously disabling actual hybrids because you can't or can only at a high opportunity cost, use both magic and physical damage.

Ermiq · February 2018

jaye63 wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

This needs to be done. Dumping your points into magicka or stamina should not result in a direct increase to your weapon and spell damage. This system is the bane of hybrid builds, it's the bane of tanks for overland content, and it's an archaic system that makes absolutely no sense with the modern state of the game.

Fix it via the following:

-Attributes no longer effect actual damage.
-Increase the resource pool gain of attributes, enchants, gear, and sets that increase magicka or stamina.
-Work the lost damage from the above changes into base weapon and spell damage, and into set bonuses.

A player can now put points into attributes, or use attribute focused sets, for the sole purpose of having a larger resource pool to utilize for damage, healing, or utility. Tanks will have slightly more resources and slightly better damage potential when soloing, hybrids will no longer suffer from splitting their attributes between two pools and having drastically less damage than others, and we can finally stop pushing pure stat sets as the only viable means of increasing damage output.

While I agree with your premise, your fix doesnt do anything to address the problem. The real fix would be to remove dmg associated with max resource pools and increase dmg from other sources.

But I also agree with the way it is. Why? Instead of having to focus on dmg, you can up your health, up your crit%, up your dmg mitigation, etc.

If your suggestion was implimented, it would destroy the system causing everyone to have to rebuild every toon. Does there need to be a fix? Probably. But with so many mechanics needing to be adjusted, it wouldnt be an easy one. Which is probably why it will never happen.

If the sets are changed to naturally reflect this the retooling of anyone one characters armor won’t be a big deal. Besides that occurs now anyway when the add and nerf stuff.

You comment ignores what I said..."...with so many mechanics needing to be adjusted, it wouldnt be an easy one. Which is probably why it will never happen." You're talking about retooling the whole thing. It is what it is.

Im constantly amazed how people never complain about single player game mechanics but shred MMO mechanics. There's no difference. You buy a game for what it is and you play it or you send it to the $5 bin at gamestop. Unless some thing is so broke it's killing the game, it's not going to happen. By your statements Im pretty sure I can safely say you know nothing about coding. It's not like doing a google search where you can type in Attributes and those lines of code appear along with several other suggestions. If you knew how many lines of code are in a game like this... the DL is several gigs. A letter on a text document is what? 10-20 Kilobytes? 1024 kilobytes = a megabyte. 1024 megabytes = a gigabyte. Do the math and see how huge that file is and then tell me again how you want some one running thru all of that code and possibly getting the wrong one(s) and maybe breaking the game. Cuz it happens.

I would have been agree, but I've seen MMOs rebuild their RPG systems from scratch. And they're doing fine. Sure, there was some time of balancing things again and again, but in the end players had some new things to learn, new builds, new metas, new problems (there always will be issues, that's for sure) but rebuilding solved the problems that games had and I can tell that it's worth it.
One of that games even remade all 10 classes completely, all brand new skills with new animations, all brand new stats and resource types and damage types. It's doable, I've seen that. And it works.

idk · February 2018

Teridaxus wrote: »

I would rather see a split between damage and healing scaling from the same resources first.

@Teridaxus

Why. You want to destroy one hybrid then are willing to make another hybrid better. Does not seem very logical.

Fortunately it will not happen. It is not normal in major MMOPGs and destroys the ability to perform two roles not to mention having to rework most sets in the game. The biggest reason is the one or wo players I have seen that agree with you do not offer any actual reasons for wanting to split healing from dps.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

I’d much rather they go back to the original stat design at PC launch. Makes much more sense and then you don’t have to “balance” or mess up stuff every 60-90 days

STEVIL · February 2018

Kolache wrote: »

Why not just have the combined magicka/stamina resource pools contribute to both damage types?

Player-A has:
40k magicka
10k stamina
20k health

Player-B has:
25k magicka
25k stamina
20k health

And they both have the same damage bonuses to stamina/magicka... that would stop people from just boosting health if they needed damage. People would base their resource pool allocation more on what they actually needed to have more resources for.

But usually people need more of what they do the most - and so in the above mixes since most sets focus on stam or mag (and the ones that split give less to either) these would still under-perform vs a build more 50-0 (or mostly very little b if they happen to need some b) for off-task.

As atated already so many times, the 10%-ish off maxstat to damage is just one piece of the "focus on one stat" pressure and changing just that one piece wont make hybrids able to match-up.

Kolache · February 2018

STEVIL wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Why not just have the combined magicka/stamina resource pools contribute to both damage types?

Player-A has:
40k magicka
10k stamina
20k health

Player-B has:
25k magicka
25k stamina
20k health

And they both have the same damage bonuses to stamina/magicka... that would stop people from just boosting health if they needed damage. People would base their resource pool allocation more on what they actually needed to have more resources for.

But usually people need more of what they do the most - and so in the above mixes since most sets focus on stam or mag (and the ones that split give less to either) these would still under-perform vs a build more 50-0 (or mostly very little b if they happen to need some b) for off-task.

As atated already so many times, the 10%-ish off maxstat to damage is just one piece of the "focus on one stat" pressure and changing just that one piece wont make hybrids able to match-up.

Well yeah, this obviously doesn't change things like only one resource being restored per heavy attack based on weapon type, or only one damage type being boosted by your armor type, let alone set bonuses.

...but in a thread about "unlink max attribute from damage" it seems to address that particular issue. "What would make hybrids truly competitive" would be a much more complicated topic.

kongkim · February 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

This needs to be done. Dumping your points into magicka or stamina should not result in a direct increase to your weapon and spell damage. This system is the bane of hybrid builds, it's the bane of tanks for overland content, and it's an archaic system that makes absolutely no sense with the modern state of the game.

Fix it via the following:

-Attributes no longer effect actual damage.
-Increase the resource pool gain of attributes, enchants, gear, and sets that increase magicka or stamina.
-Work the lost damage from the above changes into base weapon and spell damage, and into set bonuses.

A player can now put points into attributes, or use attribute focused sets, for the sole purpose of having a larger resource pool to utilize for damage, healing, or utility. Tanks will have slightly more resources and slightly better damage potential when soloing, hybrids will no longer suffer from splitting their attributes between two pools and having drastically less damage than others, and we can finally stop pushing pure stat sets as the only viable means of increasing damage output.

YEEEEES so much YES. Zos Do it

idk · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I’d much rather they go back to the original stat design at PC launch. Makes much more sense and then you don’t have to “balance” or mess up stuff every 60-90 days

Not correct ans as code pointed out earlier in this thread if merely lead to stacking more health. Balance would still be an issue lest we forget the huge changes made in the first year of the game.

LadyNalcarya · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I’d much rather they go back to the original stat design at PC launch. Makes much more sense and then you don’t have to “balance” or mess up stuff every 60-90 days

Why though?
Early design was a balance disaster. Stamina builds werent competitive due to lack of stamina morphs, and even though everyone had pretty much the same stats, some builds were clearly better than the others. *ahem* Magicka dragonknight. Nuff said. At least now we have more freedom when it comes to builds.
And everyone who praises pre-1.6 ESO seems to forget that even with capped stats any non-minmaxed build was mediocre at best. And that was much more impactful because overland pve used to be more challenging.
Not to mention the lack of content updates and other issues of early ESO.