All the tedious things that have to be done when creating an alt, and 3 possible solutions

Chaos2088 · February 2018

It may just be my OCD voice talking (oh please we all have one)....but I like that you have to start from scratch with each new toon you create. I like getting all the achievements again.

....I might be 92 by the time I am done....but by the power of grey skull I will god dam it!

kargen27 · February 2018

If you find something in the game tedious don't do it. You shouldn't get to pretend you did it though and get the rewards. If you don't want to take the time to properly develop a new character then maybe a new character isn't for you.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2018

Leveling Undaunted is even more tedious and fairly necessary for its final passives. (You forgot a bullet point)

Vapirko · February 2018

Although I agree with you and would like to see some of the tedium removed such as sky shard gathering, these threads never go well. For some reason unknownst to me, there are droves of people on here who abhor the idea that some of us prefer endgame activities and don’t love RP’ing though the entire game over and over again, or just flat out cant comprehend that getting the same lorebooks more than once isn’t fun. They even abhor the idea that you should have the choice to skip it when they’ve already wasted the hours getting all the achievements of ten different alts because then their time means nothing. The fact that all that time means nothing either way is apparently of no consequence.

klowdy1 · February 2018

thedude33 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

The problem is when people make a grocery list like the OP's of things they "have" to do. If you build a wall first, you won't want to climb it. You'll consider taking the sour grapes approach instead, to talk yourself out of it.

So don't fall into a self-defeating mindset. Make the alt, and take it one day at a time.

It's really that simple.

I agree ..but if I have to watch that old slow gandalf @#^^ walking 1 mph while I wait for him again in the harborage I might go insane.

Its Dumbledore, Gandalf was in Oblivion

Panda_iMunch · February 2018

I don't know if it's just me or not, but I like making alts and doing all that stuff. While leveling itself is fairly boring due to the fact it's unbearably easy, the dungeoning, exploring, leveling, it's all good (to a degree).

I wouldn't mind a leveling system that is more challenging. Maybe like a prestige system that alters stats, changes skills, or makes enemies harder for you in some way.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Kwik1 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

For a taxi driver, it is indeed the journey and not the destination that counts.

Actually it IS the destination that matters for a taxi driver because he doesn't get paid until reaching the point of drop off.

What is the point you were trying to make with this completely wrong analogy?

I was making a joke. That's why I had the smiley face after it.

DoctorESO · February 2018

majulook wrote: »

I have 7 characters, All with maxed out mount and all craft skills. Along with maxing out mage, fighter, thieves, dark brotherhood, and undaunted guilds.

My first character has done everything in pve. did some pvp but did not like the way pvp areas performed

The others I have spent the time to make them all complete all skill point quests (including silver and gold), and getting all pve area skyshards, dolmens, world bosses, dungeon, and delve bosses .

I say once you get a character to max level. Lets be given a choice to instant max level any other characters. This way the rewards for quests would at least be worthwhile.

I can agree with you on this. Let it be an option so people who want to relive the leveling journey can still do it. It doesn't hurt them, so kind of a win/win.

Sixty5 wrote: »

You missed

"Go through settings to ensure that addon settings and keybindings are all correct, and then hours later finding something that isn't correct and having to repeat the entire process to fix the issue"

I sure did forget about that.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Leveling Undaunted is even more tedious and fairly necessary for its final passives. (You forgot a bullet point)

You are quite right. I have added it to the list. 130 normal pledges or 65 veteran hardmode pledges to get to level 9.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

Although I agree with you and would like to see some of the tedium removed such as sky shard gathering, these threads never go well. For some reason unknownst to me, there are droves of people on here who abhor the idea that some of us prefer endgame activities and don’t love RP’ing though the entire game over and over again, or just flat out cant comprehend that getting the same lorebooks more than once isn’t fun. They even abhor the idea that you should have the choice to skip it when they’ve already wasted the hours getting all the achievements of ten different alts because then their time means nothing. The fact that all that time means nothing either way is apparently of no consequence.

Why would they be opposed to it? It doesn't hurt them because they can just decline the option and relive the journey in full. $:\$

klowdy1 · February 2018

Tandor wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

He can't help it. If he doesn't make a certain number of useless, meaningless, or needless posts, his heart stops.

It's not even that, he's farming points to level his account. Topics with polls barely rank up but making a topic with three separate "poll option" posts that each have to have Agrees clicked? With multiple voting allowed by making the options separate posts? That's just setting people up to feed him agrees and responses for points at a faster rate than making a poll does. A single poll can have 200+ responses. Imagine that many Agree clicks.

This is just more attempts at farming forum score with controversial topics.

That may well be the motivation behind all the topics and polls, but why? Of what earthly use is the forum score? Is anyone really so sad as to feel the need for bragging rights on a forum?

You should know better. Of course people are that petty. Obviously the people trying to get insightful/agree/awesome are the people that care about, and are impressed with that crap.

[Deleted User] · February 2018

Hello there,

Recently we've had to remove a few comments for baiting, which is against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to stay on topic and respectful to avoid any more post removal.

Thank you for understanding.

Panda_iMunch · February 2018

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello there,

Recently we've had to remove a few comments for baiting, which is against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to stay on topic and respectful to avoid any more post removal.

Thank you for understanding.

Thanks daddy for keeping us safe!

DarcyMardin · February 2018

I have 2 accounts and 17 or 18 characters (I’ve lost count). None of them has done all of the things in the OP’s post, although my original main is working on it. I honestly don’t mind doing the quests, shards, guilds, crafting, etc. etc. over and over again. It’s not as if I feel I have to do them on *all* my alts. Many are specialized for different roles.

The one thing I doubt I could do twice is Master Angler. I haven’t quite finished my first of those and, much those I enjoy fishing, it is too darn slow. (But I want that boat!)

kargen27 · February 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

Although I agree with you and would like to see some of the tedium removed such as sky shard gathering, these threads never go well. For some reason unknownst to me, there are droves of people on here who abhor the idea that some of us prefer endgame activities and don’t love RP’ing though the entire game over and over again, or just flat out cant comprehend that getting the same lorebooks more than once isn’t fun. They even abhor the idea that you should have the choice to skip it when they’ve already wasted the hours getting all the achievements of ten different alts because then their time means nothing. The fact that all that time means nothing either way is apparently of no consequence.

You can skip getting all the lore books. And again I have to say if you feel the hours playing this game were hours wasted you might be doing it wrong.
The real truth is no matter how we feel about this issue an MMO survives by content being repeated. Making most the achievements character bound instead of account bound helps assure content is repeated. Letting players load up new characters fully ready to go end game would be detrimental to the game.

ol_BANK_lo · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Reasonable minds may differ, but I'm sure we can all agree that this game is not the "most" alt-friendly game in the industry. There certainly are games that are less alt-friendly, but there are also games that are more alt-friendly. However, wherever this game may fall on the spectrum, there is quite a lot of tedious things that have to be done when creating a new alt for trials, PvP, etc. I'm sure I forgot some things, so feel free to add to this list:
Level from 1-50

Train your mount to 60 speed, 60 stamina, and 60 bag space (180 days)

Travel to and unlock 230 wayshrines (full list is available at UESP), some of which are locked behind long quest chains

Find 276 lorebooks to level Mages Guild to the max (5 points per book, 1,380 points needed)

Close 348 dolmens or kill 6,960 undead/daedra to level Fighters Guild to the max (20 points per dolmen, 1 point per undead/daedra killed, 6,960 points needed)

Travel to and unlock 405 skyshards (full list is available at UESP), some of which are locked behind long quest chains

Complete 130 normal pledges or 65 veteran hardmode pledges to level Undaunted to 9 to unlock the skills and passives (10 points per normal pledge, 20 points per veteran pledge, 1,300 points needed)

Accept and complete the quests from the quest givers that follow you around to get them to stop stalking and annoying you

Get a vampire or werewolf bite and complete the quest

Level up vampire or werewolf to the max

Repeatedly swap various skills on and off your bar so you ensure they get leveled up

Achieve 188,000 Alliance War Points to unlock Warhorn, Rapid Manuever, Vigor, Caltrops, Barrier, Purge, and Guard (188,000 total points needed to unlock Assault/Support Rank 6)

Achieve an additional 120,000 Alliance War Points to unlock Magicka Detonation (308,000 total points needed to unlock Assault/Support Rank 7)

Achieve yet an additional 850,000 Alliance War Points to unlock all the Assault/Support passives (1,158,000 total points needed to unlock Assault/Support Rank 10)

Not all items will apply to all characters, obviously.

But there are three possible solutions to help alleviate the tedium and make this game more alt-friendly. Since we don't have the ability to create a poll where you can choose more than one option, I will list the three solutions below separately so you can register your agreement with the ones you support (you can use the "Agree" button). All solutions are designed such that people who want to re-do the journey on their new alts aren't harmed.

There are a lot people in here that like to play the game slowly, read books, listen to NPCs, do quests, and generally play leisurely. I am NOT one of those people. I have 6 end-game toons, and will likely shoot myself before making another one. I haven't listened to a single NPC or read a lorebook in 2 years...and my main has done just about every quest in the game. But everyone's definition is different. My toons are very complete, but even I don't find some of your stuff necessary. Lorebooks only for mages; bag space not mandatory; getting every skyshard not necessary; finding every wayshrine is absolutely not necessary.

That said, leveling Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Undaunted, Assault/Support, Crafting, Legerdemain, and Riding Skills are daunting. And I also choose to have each toon be a Master Crafter, which does add a ton of skyshard hunting (ugh). That also doesn't include gearing up new toons. For example I have a Stamplar who has Hundings, War Machine and VO. My stam DK has VO, Sunderflame, Morag Tong and NMG. You could do some overlap, but generally those sets stay where they are. It's no longer as simple as every magicka character wears Burning Spellweave. Soooo, yeah, I won't make anymore characters. I don't care what the next "OP" class is.

I also know of people who don't care about crafting or ride speed, and you don't need lorebooks on a stam toon. Those can be banged out pretty quickly. That all said, I personally wish riding skills were account-wide...it's 180 days for Christ's sake. But they make money in the Crown Store with riding lessons. I wish lorebooks could be stored in house and read on new toons.

Part of me wants maxing a toon out to be easier...but I don't want to gear them out, and quite frankly 6 is enough for me.

thedude33 · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Although I agree with you and would like to see some of the tedium removed such as sky shard gathering, these threads never go well. For some reason unknownst to me, there are droves of people on here who abhor the idea that some of us prefer endgame activities and don’t love RP’ing though the entire game over and over again, or just flat out cant comprehend that getting the same lorebooks more than once isn’t fun. They even abhor the idea that you should have the choice to skip it when they’ve already wasted the hours getting all the achievements of ten different alts because then their time means nothing. The fact that all that time means nothing either way is apparently of no consequence.

Why would they be opposed to it? It doesn't hurt them because they can just decline the option and relive the journey in full. $:\$

You would have to have a psychology degree to try and understand why they feel that way. It isn't just their opinion either, they are actually offended at the thought....and you will never change their mind. It baffles me also, but I have seen it in every game going back to EQ.

Ohtimbar · February 2018

This is a useful discussion with some good ideas. For me, the solution was simply to stop making alts. I'll never make another. That won't work for everyone, so I hope the ridiculous alt grind is sorted out for the next crop of new players.

klowdy1 · February 2018

thedude33 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Although I agree with you and would like to see some of the tedium removed such as sky shard gathering, these threads never go well. For some reason unknownst to me, there are droves of people on here who abhor the idea that some of us prefer endgame activities and don’t love RP’ing though the entire game over and over again, or just flat out cant comprehend that getting the same lorebooks more than once isn’t fun. They even abhor the idea that you should have the choice to skip it when they’ve already wasted the hours getting all the achievements of ten different alts because then their time means nothing. The fact that all that time means nothing either way is apparently of no consequence.

Why would they be opposed to it? It doesn't hurt them because they can just decline the option and relive the journey in full. $:\$

You would have to have a psychology degree to try and understand why they feel that way. It isn't just their opinion either, they are actually offended at the thought....and you will never change their mind. It baffles me also, but I have seen it in every game going back to EQ.

Its not that people are offended, they are confused why a person would play a game, just to skip everything. Paying to skip to the end is a new thing, and hurts games, despite how much it also helps. If you wanted a new spec in D2, you needed a new character. New players can skip to the end, and know nothing about how to play it, messing up other's playtime they group with.

thedude33 · February 2018

klowdy1 wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Although I agree with you and would like to see some of the tedium removed such as sky shard gathering, these threads never go well. For some reason unknownst to me, there are droves of people on here who abhor the idea that some of us prefer endgame activities and don’t love RP’ing though the entire game over and over again, or just flat out cant comprehend that getting the same lorebooks more than once isn’t fun. They even abhor the idea that you should have the choice to skip it when they’ve already wasted the hours getting all the achievements of ten different alts because then their time means nothing. The fact that all that time means nothing either way is apparently of no consequence.

Why would they be opposed to it? It doesn't hurt them because they can just decline the option and relive the journey in full. $:\$

You would have to have a psychology degree to try and understand why they feel that way. It isn't just their opinion either, they are actually offended at the thought....and you will never change their mind. It baffles me also, but I have seen it in every game going back to EQ.

Its not that people are offended, they are confused why a person would play a game, just to skip everything. Paying to skip to the end is a new thing, and hurts games, despite how much it also helps. If you wanted a new spec in D2, you needed a new character. New players can skip to the end, and know nothing about how to play it, messing up other's playtime they group with.

Skip everything? So if someones has done it 5 times, how is anything missed or 'skipped'?

If they promise not to group so they don't 'mess up your playtime' (

)

Silly

DoctorESO · February 2018

thedude33 wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Although I agree with you and would like to see some of the tedium removed such as sky shard gathering, these threads never go well. For some reason unknownst to me, there are droves of people on here who abhor the idea that some of us prefer endgame activities and don’t love RP’ing though the entire game over and over again, or just flat out cant comprehend that getting the same lorebooks more than once isn’t fun. They even abhor the idea that you should have the choice to skip it when they’ve already wasted the hours getting all the achievements of ten different alts because then their time means nothing. The fact that all that time means nothing either way is apparently of no consequence.

Why would they be opposed to it? It doesn't hurt them because they can just decline the option and relive the journey in full. $:\$

You would have to have a psychology degree to try and understand why they feel that way. It isn't just their opinion either, they are actually offended at the thought....and you will never change their mind. It baffles me also, but I have seen it in every game going back to EQ.

Its not that people are offended, they are confused why a person would play a game, just to skip everything. Paying to skip to the end is a new thing, and hurts games, despite how much it also helps. If you wanted a new spec in D2, you needed a new character. New players can skip to the end, and know nothing about how to play it, messing up other's playtime they group with.

Skip everything? So if someones has done it 5 times, how is anything missed or 'skipped'?

If they promise not to group so they don't 'mess up your playtime' ( )

Silly

To add to that, the context here is for experienced players who have done everything, not "new players" who just opened the game for the first time.

Cadbury · February 2018

Just put everything in the crown store. Problem solved.

thedude33 · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Although I agree with you and would like to see some of the tedium removed such as sky shard gathering, these threads never go well. For some reason unknownst to me, there are droves of people on here who abhor the idea that some of us prefer endgame activities and don’t love RP’ing though the entire game over and over again, or just flat out cant comprehend that getting the same lorebooks more than once isn’t fun. They even abhor the idea that you should have the choice to skip it when they’ve already wasted the hours getting all the achievements of ten different alts because then their time means nothing. The fact that all that time means nothing either way is apparently of no consequence.

Why would they be opposed to it? It doesn't hurt them because they can just decline the option and relive the journey in full. $:\$

You would have to have a psychology degree to try and understand why they feel that way. It isn't just their opinion either, they are actually offended at the thought....and you will never change their mind. It baffles me also, but I have seen it in every game going back to EQ.

Its not that people are offended, they are confused why a person would play a game, just to skip everything. Paying to skip to the end is a new thing, and hurts games, despite how much it also helps. If you wanted a new spec in D2, you needed a new character. New players can skip to the end, and know nothing about how to play it, messing up other's playtime they group with.

Skip everything? So if someones has done it 5 times, how is anything missed or 'skipped'?

If they promise not to group so they don't 'mess up your playtime' ( )

Silly

To add to that, the context here is for experienced players who have done everything, not "new players" who just opened the game for the first time.

I think something like a 2X experience bonus, each shard you collect counts as 2, horses can be trained 2x a day.

Basically a veteran player will be allowed to get things done quicker, yet still have to 'play the game' to keep everyone happy.

magictucktuck · February 2018

Well while those are true facts they are misleading, just from reading the first five how many deadrea spawn at dolmens and just from questing to 50 usually if u do all dolmen and in each zone for maint story ( by the time you finish your alliance) it’s always been maxed for me just doing main quests and dolmen for my alliance, never once had to grind it. Mages guild you can level while doing main story line quests for skill points along with skyshard hunting, you don’t need all 405 for alts. And undaunted you also get exp for achivements so you don’t need to do that many pledges you get first time completion exp for them all and then pledges for a week

Iluvrien · February 2018

thedude33 wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Although I agree with you and would like to see some of the tedium removed such as sky shard gathering, these threads never go well. For some reason unknownst to me, there are droves of people on here who abhor the idea that some of us prefer endgame activities and don’t love RP’ing though the entire game over and over again, or just flat out cant comprehend that getting the same lorebooks more than once isn’t fun. They even abhor the idea that you should have the choice to skip it when they’ve already wasted the hours getting all the achievements of ten different alts because then their time means nothing. The fact that all that time means nothing either way is apparently of no consequence.

Why would they be opposed to it? It doesn't hurt them because they can just decline the option and relive the journey in full. $:\$

You would have to have a psychology degree to try and understand why they feel that way. It isn't just their opinion either, they are actually offended at the thought....and you will never change their mind. It baffles me also, but I have seen it in every game going back to EQ.

Its not that people are offended, they are confused why a person would play a game, just to skip everything. Paying to skip to the end is a new thing, and hurts games, despite how much it also helps. If you wanted a new spec in D2, you needed a new character. New players can skip to the end, and know nothing about how to play it, messing up other's playtime they group with.

Skip everything? So if someones has done it 5 times, how is anything missed or 'skipped'?

If they promise not to group so they don't 'mess up your playtime' ( )

Silly

Because they want to go through a sixth time... without going through?

This is why "endgame" as separate entity is so problematic. Endgame is all MMO and no RPG. Endgame PvP might as well be a MOBA. That people can/will/do grind through levels and skip zone content to get to endgame is, to reuse your word, the really "silly" thing.

For Azura's sake, "endgame" is a holding pattern designed to keep people online and repeating content until the next batch of content can be completed. It is a purely mechanical exercise with all of the narrative/RPG content of an IKEA catalogue. I'm one of the ones confused (not offended) about the rush to endgame. Getting there in an organic way and enjoying the things to do while there? Excellent! All well and good. More power to you. Rushing to get there in a story-heavy MMORPG like ESO is... well... the nearest analogy I can make is this:

Imagine picking up a novel. You've read it once, maybe even a few times, but instead of enjoying the story in its entirety you flick through to the last 5 pages and the read and reread those, trying to see how fast you can do it.

How is this fun?

Twenty0zTsunami · February 2018

The mount training and the skyshard system is the worst of it imo. In other ways, it's one of the better games as far as alts goes (specifically coming to mind : my 400 CP dispersal with each new character)

Diora · February 2018

lol, when you said "tedious", I thought you actually meant "tedious".

for me, the tedious things i have to do when making a new alt are:

1. make sure all my ESC menu (base game) settings are the same. Since I have yet to find an addon that saves the actual game settings so i can import them to new characters, i have to do this every time. I'm talking about turning on auto-loot, fixing the 3rd person camera, turning on nameplates, etc. Fortunately there's a keybind addon I can use, and most of my UI addons have "account-wide" settings, but that's just for the addons. And please don't tell me there are addons for each of these things. My computer can only handle so many, and I change a lot of settings from default.

2. Get off the boat and travel to my home alliance so i can start the main quest properly. Call me a traditionalist, but it annoys me that all these people want your help immediately like you're some big hero when you're level 3 off the boat. I mean, why the heck has Shuga been looking everywhere for little ol' me?

3. OK, I agree about the riding training.

That's...about it?

DoctorESO · February 2018

Diora wrote: »

Call me a traditionalist, but it annoys me that all these people want your help immediately like you're some big hero when you're level 3 off the boat. I mean, why the heck has Shuga been looking everywhere for little ol' me?

Because the Elder Scrolls have foretold of your coming and your future heroism. It is a prophecy.

Dracofyre · February 2018

i think an upgraded alt by optional choice would be ideal for some players.

i started as GF, and took me 3 months to reach 50 lvl 160cp.

then what if they ask you to bring in healer alt and you dont have it ready and too low for them to wait 3 months to fo a group runs, they wont wait.
see? it would be nice to have 1 more alt in a hurry.

redoing the book runs, shards, and crafting leveling, thay are "pita".

if others said no, they they have options to decline shortcuts. i heard devs said this game is "play the way you want", and it hadnt live up to the name.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Dracofyre wrote: »

i think an upgraded alt by optional choice would be ideal for some players.

i started as GF, and took me 3 months to reach 50 lvl 160cp.

then what if they ask you to bring in healer alt and you dont have it ready and too low for them to wait 3 months to fo a group runs, they wont wait.
see? it would be nice to have 1 more alt in a hurry.

redoing the book runs, shards, and crafting leveling, thay are "pita".

if others said no, they they have options to decline shortcuts. i heard devs said this game is "play the way you want", and it hadnt live up to the name.

Great points here!

DieAlteHexe · February 2018

Dracofyre wrote: »

i think an upgraded alt by optional choice would be ideal for some players.

i started as GF, and took me 3 months to reach 50 lvl 160cp.

then what if they ask you to bring in healer alt and you dont have it ready and too low for them to wait 3 months to fo a group runs, they wont wait.
see? it would be nice to have 1 more alt in a hurry.

redoing the book runs, shards, and crafting leveling, thay are "pita".

if others said no, they they have options to decline shortcuts. i heard devs said this game is "play the way you want", and it hadnt live up to the name.

The only objection I have to this is all the wailing and whinging I've seen in games where it is possible to buy your way past the "journey" due to people not having a clue as to how to play their class. If you think the "git good" rhetoric is bad now, you should see it when a newly minted character shows up and jumps straight into "end-game" content. It's not pretty.

I couldn't care less if someone wants to zip past what I consider the fun parts of the game, their loss as I see it but to each their own.