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POLL: Would you be in favor of adding frost/cold damage to the Nord racial passives?

ANGEL_BtVS
ANGEL_BtVS
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I’ve been thinking about this and it seems natural that Nords should deal frost/cold damage and that it should be added to the Nord racial passives. The Nords come from Skyrim and already have cold resist as a passive. It seems to follow they would be “masters of cold” which would include cold damage as well, along the same lines as the Dunmer with fire. The Dunmer have flame resist and also max fire damage at +7%. The Nords cold resist could be augmented with a +7% increase to cold damage.

Option 1: Magicka-based
The game could use another magicka-based race. Right now we have six stamina races (Bosmer, Imperial, Khajiit, Nord, Orsimer, Redguard) and only three magicka races (Altmer, Breton, Dunmer). The Argonian are probably best classified as a hybrid race. Yes they have max 3% magicka but when you factor in their passive from drinking potions they have insane resource management across the board. Add to that they are also BiS tanks sporting a sword and board and IMO this makes them a hybrid.

Making Nords magicka-based would then give us a more even balance of stamina and magicka based races and it's not like the game would be losing anything by taking away the Nord's current passives. They already have no role in dps or healing, and even as a tank they lag behind both Argonians and Imperials. Also, it's not like it would be a complete reach to make Nords magicka-based. After all, just take a look at Shalidor who was Nord and considered one of the most powerful mages ever. He also was Arch-Mage of the mages guild and was the founder of a sanctuary for mages on the island of Eyevea. Clearly it is possible for Nords to be strong mages.

Option 2: Stamina-based
Ok so I’m trying to think outside the box on this one and I’m not sure if it’s viable, but I thought I’d give it a try. I’m not sure if elemental damage is completely separate from magicka or if they are tied together (e.g., does more magicka increase elemental damage?). Obviously you always see magicka-based characters wielding staffs so they do seem to go together. Someone more knowledgeable can chime in and correct me where I’m wrong, but let’s give this a shot.

What if Nords were to get passives similar to Dunmer but with a focus on stamina? So max stam 9%, max magicka 6%, cold resist and cold damage. This means they would use DW or 2H weapons, which is more in line with their history as fierce warriors. They could add cold glyphs to their weapons to take advantage of their natural affinity for cold environments and the newly added cold damage passive. Whereas Altmer and Dunmer are mixing spell and elemental damage together, Nords could be mixing weapon and elemental damage. And finally, perhaps a few of the Winter’s Embrace skills could have stamina morphs that deal cold damage or provide a cold shield (similar to the stamina morphs for DKs which deal poison damage or stamina NBs which deal disease damage).

Thoughts? I’m sure there are things I messed up (especially in that stamina scenario), I’m not a master theory crafter (I don't know the intricacies and nuances of how every skill impacts other skills) so feel free to correct me or point out where something wouldn’t work. I just really think adding cold/frost damage to Nords makes a ton of sense - I just don't know the best way to do it. And if you’re not in favor of adding cold/frost damage at all, perhaps let us know your thoughts on other ways of improving the current sad state of the Nord race.
Edited by ANGEL_BtVS on January 29, 2018 5:54PM

POLL: Would you be in favor of adding frost/cold damage to the Nord racial passives? 93 votes

Yes
63%
Yolokin_Swagonbornkyler9987b16_ESOAurielleRadianceAnath_QcamelliabottleofsyrupPE_BagaturStreegarunagateFoulSnowpawnimbliEdziutemjiuagegartonValkynSkethaHvzedaEnemy-of-ColdharbourMettaricanaTankHealz2015 59 votes
No
36%
kypranb14_ESOMarginislolo_01b16_ESOkkravaritieb17_ESOShareexenowarrior92eb17_ESOanothermeBergisMacBrideJade1986TheShadowScoutKraziJoeTan9oSucckaMilwaukeeScottJarlUlfrictheher0notLeogonAxoinusInarreNordSwordnBoardBobby_V_Rockit 34 votes
  • Aurielle
    Aurielle
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    Yes
    Sure thing. I'd also be in favour for swapping out the Nord's max stamina passive for a max magicka passive (which, when combined with more cold damage, would make the Nord synergize especially well with Warden tanking).
  • ANGEL_BtVS
    ANGEL_BtVS
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    Yes
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Sure thing. I'd also be in favour for swapping out the Nord's max stamina passive for a max magicka passive (which, when combined with more cold damage, would make the Nord synergize especially well with Warden tanking).

    Agree completely. I originally thought of including something regarding tanking but the post was already wordy. But yes, making Nords magicka-based with cold damage added would make them great Wardens. With the Winter's Embrace line they could make strong DDs focused on cold damage, but also viable ice staff tanks which would be great considering end-game builds currently are only using sword/board. Argonians and Imperials would still make the best DK tanks, but Nords would now be excellent ice staff Warden tanks.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Yes
    eh, why not
  • Amdar_Godkiller
    Amdar_Godkiller
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    Yes
    I would like them to have some purpose beyond being an inventory mule...
  • SydneyGrey
    SydneyGrey
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    No
    What's the point? You can even use frost magic effectively in this game unless you're a tank, and then you're just a sucky tank.* The frost magic in this game is terrible.
    Just my personal opinion.

    (*And if you're not a tank, then you do sucky DPS instead.)

    Edited by SydneyGrey on January 29, 2018 9:17PM
  • Tan9oSuccka
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    No
    No. Nords are supposed to be fierce and hardy warriors.

    I think adding increased physical damage by X would be more appropriate.

    The proposed cold changes really only impacts fairly rare niche warden builds, and misses a greater portion of builds.
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Sure, but I really dont see what it gets you. If your idea is to make them an effective DPS race, well, it's going to take more than cold damage. Cold damage is not useful to DPS in the current meta with frost Heavy Attacks drawing aggro. Unless they buff sustain by a significant amount, ice staffs simply arent viable DPS weapons. In your magic scenario, nord would still likley be behind Altmer and Dunmer. In your stamina scenario, I dont think a boost to a cold glyph on your weapons is going to make a min/maxer chose nord over redgaurd.

    So what are you left with? Well nords I guess are best suited to tanking (even though they really arent all that great for it), so the buff would increase your tank DPS? Pretty worthless. Even if you gave them a cold elemental buff on par with Dunmer's fire buff, i still have trouble coming up with a scenario where I would want nord from a min/max point of view.

    Dont get me wrong. Nords are by far the worst race in ESO from a passive strength standpoint, and frost passives make sense from a lore standpoint, but I am just not sure it would really fix anything unless you overhauled the other buffs as well AND reworked the frost staff a bit. You would need a way to return Magic like a HA without drawing Aggro.
  • Aurielle
    Aurielle
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    Yes
    The proposed cold changes really only impacts fairly rare niche warden builds, and misses a greater portion of builds.

    Fair point, but it's not like that doesn't already happen with certain races in this game. The Argonian DK tank meta is a bit boring; Nord Warden frost tanking could be a fun alternative.

  • SilverIce58
    SilverIce58
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    Yes
    No. Nords are supposed to be fierce and hardy warriors.

    I think adding increased physical damage by X would be more appropriate.

    The proposed cold changes really only impacts fairly rare niche warden builds, and misses a greater portion of builds.

    Idk where this whole "Nords are fierce warriors and hate magic" thing comes from. Skyrim maybe? Well I don't hate to tell you this, but Ysgramor's 500 Companions had plenty of mages, and Ysgramor himself held those who could use magic in high esteem.

    Incase you forgot, Shalidor is a Nord, and a damn good mage at that.

    Also, Dragon Priests are Nords too. And they can use magic as well.

    Nords can use magic, lots of them do, and they should be able to benefit from it ingame.
    Edited by SilverIce58 on January 29, 2018 8:31PM
    PC - NA
    CP 1125
    Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
    Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
    Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
    Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
    Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
    Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
    Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
    Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
    Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC
  • logarifmik
    logarifmik
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    No
    ZOS, just organize race passives into a tree and give players a choice already!
    EU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
    Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
    Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant
  • Tan9oSuccka
    Tan9oSuccka
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    No
    No. Nords are supposed to be fierce and hardy warriors.

    I think adding increased physical damage by X would be more appropriate.

    The proposed cold changes really only impacts fairly rare niche warden builds, and misses a greater portion of builds.

    Idk where this whole "Nords are fierce warriors and hate magic" thing comes from. Skyrim maybe? Well I don't hate to tell you this, but Ysgramor's 500 Companions had plenty of mages, and Ysgramor himself held those who could use magic in high esteem.

    Incase you forgot, Shalidor is a Nord, and a damn good mage at that.

    Also, Dragon Priests are Nords too. And they can use magic as well.

    Nords can use magic, lots of them do, and they should be able to benefit from it ingame.

    You added that rant, I didn't. Nords are warriors that excel in all warfare. That's why I picked them in my first TES game (Morrowind).

    The way it stands now, they are they preferred race of nothing. Closest is probably the fourth best option....for tanking.

    Here's from USEP:

    The Nords are the children of the sky,[1] a race of tall and fair-haired humans from Skyrim who are known for their incredible resistance to cold and magical frost. They are fierce, strong and enthusiastic warriors, and many become renowned warriors, soldiers and mercenaries all over Tamriel.[2][3] Eager to augment their martial skills beyond the traditional methods of Skyrim, they excel in all manner of warfare, and are known as a militant people by their neighbors

  • ANGEL_BtVS
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    Yes
    Sure, but I really dont see what it gets you. If your idea is to make them an effective DPS race, well, it's going to take more than cold damage. Cold damage is not useful to DPS in the current meta with frost Heavy Attacks drawing aggro. Unless they buff sustain by a significant amount, ice staffs simply arent viable DPS weapons. In your magic scenario, nord would still likley be behind Altmer and Dunmer. In your stamina scenario, I dont think a boost to a cold glyph on your weapons is going to make a min/maxer chose nord over redgaurd.

    So what are you left with? Well nords I guess are best suited to tanking (even though they really arent all that great for it), so the buff would increase your tank DPS? Pretty worthless. Even if you gave them a cold elemental buff on par with Dunmer's fire buff, i still have trouble coming up with a scenario where I would want nord from a min/max point of view.

    Dont get me wrong. Nords are by far the worst race in ESO from a passive strength standpoint, and frost passives make sense from a lore standpoint, but I am just not sure it would really fix anything unless you overhauled the other buffs as well AND reworked the frost staff a bit. You would need a way to return Magic like a HA without drawing Aggro.

    Excellent points. As I mentioned, I'm not the greatest at theory crafting. I just think something needs to be done to make Nords more useful and was hoping this could be a good conversation starter. Ice/Cold is just not used in any end-game build I can think of (maybe niche Warden off-tank builds?) and Nords seem like the natural race to create a usefulness for this element. Also, I wasn't targeting a meta build either, just something viable that maybe competes somewhat. A re-work of the ice staff passives would be necessary, as you mentioned, in order to make cold/frost dps viable.
    Edited by ANGEL_BtVS on January 29, 2018 8:50PM
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »
    Sure, but I really dont see what it gets you. If your idea is to make them an effective DPS race, well, it's going to take more than cold damage. Cold damage is not useful to DPS in the current meta with frost Heavy Attacks drawing aggro. Unless they buff sustain by a significant amount, ice staffs simply arent viable DPS weapons. In your magic scenario, nord would still likley be behind Altmer and Dunmer. In your stamina scenario, I dont think a boost to a cold glyph on your weapons is going to make a min/maxer chose nord over redgaurd.

    So what are you left with? Well nords I guess are best suited to tanking (even though they really arent all that great for it), so the buff would increase your tank DPS? Pretty worthless. Even if you gave them a cold elemental buff on par with Dunmer's fire buff, i still have trouble coming up with a scenario where I would want nord from a min/max point of view.

    Dont get me wrong. Nords are by far the worst race in ESO from a passive strength standpoint, and frost passives make sense from a lore standpoint, but I am just not sure it would really fix anything unless you overhauled the other buffs as well AND reworked the frost staff a bit. You would need a way to return Magic like a HA without drawing Aggro.

    Excellent points. As I mentioned, I'm not the greatest at theory crafting. I just think something needs to be done to make Nords more useful and was hoping this could be a good conversation starter. Ice/Cold is just not used in any end-game build I can think of (maybe niche Warden off-tank builds?) and Nords seem like the natural race to create a usefulness for this element. Also, I wasn't targeting a meta build either, just something viable that maybe competes somewhat. A re-work of the ice staff passives would be necessary, as you mentioned, in order to make cold/frost dps viable.

    Hard to argue with that part. Nords are a garbage race as they currently stand.
  • NyassaV
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    Yes
    As long as this doesn't replace anything then nord needs all the help it can get
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
  • Jade1986
    Jade1986
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    No
    Nords are traditionally a melee race who are against magic.....
  • Axoinus
    Axoinus
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    No
    I voted no just cause I'm opposed to racial passive locks.

    Any race - any racial passive set.
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
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    Yes
    sure why not?

    Would also be nice to have one more buff added to them. Here are some possibilies.

    Lets look at the "add duration of any drink" passive. This is because Nords like to drink right? We can do better than that.

    How about a reduction of potion cooldown for nords by 5 seconds? (40seconds instead of 45)

    Nords should be able to drink more frequently than other races. This would be a unique sustain buff that no other race has and it opens up a rich man's potion build if combined with jewelry potion reduction glyphs for a possible 25 second potion build. Note that you can already achieve 30 second pots (at tremendous opportunity cost) by use of jewelry glyphs.
    Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on January 29, 2018 10:35PM
  • KraziJoe
    KraziJoe
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    No
    Sorry if this seems long winded.

    No.
  • Aurielle
    Aurielle
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    Yes
    Jade1986 wrote: »
    Nords are traditionally a melee race who are against magic.....

    In Skyrim, yeah. ESO is set LONG before the Skyrim timeline. Nords weren't always against magic. Read the responses here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/5lroxs/why_do_nords_dislike_magic/
  • Acrolas
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    They should change Roll Dodge to Drunk Dancing for Nords and give them a 50% bonus to all Drunk Dancing Damage.
    signing off
  • ANGEL_BtVS
    ANGEL_BtVS
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    Yes
    Jade1986 wrote: »
    Nords are traditionally a melee race who are against magic.....

    Arch-mage Shalidor (a Nord)
    600px-ON-npc-Arch-Mage_Shalidor.jpg


    Also, let's take a look at the set Ysgramor's Birthright (King Ysgramor is one of the most famous of all Nords). This set is in Nord style, magicka-based, and cold/frost based):

    itemLinkImage.php?itemid=34844&level=1&quality=3&enchantid=0&enchantintlevel=0&enchantinttype=0&v=&summary&potiondata=-1&stolen=-1&writ1=0&writ2=0&writ3=0&writ4=0&writ5=0&writ6=0&itemlink=&trait=0
  • temjiu
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    Yes
    I think the biggest issue is that cold is simply not a viable option for builds atm. I think that if they fixed cold (which they need to do), then this idea makes perfect sense and would work just fine.

    outside of that, the potion CD reduction idea sounds awesome too! perhaps a CD reduction and an effect boost......5% extra effect from all potions that involve traditional drinks! we nords get more out of our mead :)
  • NordSwordnBoard
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    No
    I would rather see it turn incoming frost damage into max resource, or increase the resist to cold so Nords could laugh off the cold snares and/or damage.

    Increase cold resiststance by 2079 = ? It's just not as noticeable as % based stat increases are imo.




    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • Psyonico
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    So what are you left with? Well nords I guess are best suited to tanking (even though they really arent all that great for it), so the buff would increase your tank DPS? Pretty worthless.

    What's wrong with increasing a tanks DPS? Increased DPS is still increased DPS
  • TheShadowScout
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    No
    ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »
    I’ve been thinking about this and it seems natural that Nords should deal frost/cold damage ...
    Nope.
    Just living in the snow and ice does not make you suddenly a cryomancer.

    Especially not a race of men - if we were talking snow elves, then yes, for elves it might make a certain amount of sense (except that they are either extinct or mutated in this time and age). It -might- make sense if the powers that be were to decide to make the breton-lineage (and thus partially elf-blooded) reachmen a seperate race...

    For nords on the other hand, the cold resistance and general focus on physical toughness makes a LOT more sense, and the rest is also as it ought to be from the depictions of that race in TES lore.
    Remember, a few great mages and shamans nonwithstanding, the majority of nords are pretty skeptical towards magic, and prefer a strong arm and sturdy axe...
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Psyonico wrote: »

    So what are you left with? Well nords I guess are best suited to tanking (even though they really arent all that great for it), so the buff would increase your tank DPS? Pretty worthless.

    What's wrong with increasing a tanks DPS? Increased DPS is still increased DPS

    Nothing is wrong with it, but it wouldnt make the race optimal from a min/max perspective. If you are just pugging 4 man stuff, do all the DPS you want on your tank. In end game content where you are pushing score, it its not the job of a tank. As that is really the only type of PVE content where race matters, I assumed that's what we are talking about here. In other words, giving a nord tank a small DPS buff is not going to make a min/maxed tank chose nord of Argonian.
  • Vanthras79
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    Norion Germain - Telvanni Wizard, Covenant Battle Mage, Mage's Guild Magister, Resident of Daggerfall Overlook, Lord of Tel Galen, Psijic Monk, Antiquarian, Breton Scholar, and Traveler.

  • ANGEL_BtVS
    ANGEL_BtVS
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    Yes
    ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »
    I’ve been thinking about this and it seems natural that Nords should deal frost/cold damage ...
    Nope.
    Just living in the snow and ice does not make you suddenly a cryomancer.

    Especially not a race of men - if we were talking snow elves, then yes, for elves it might make a certain amount of sense (except that they are either extinct or mutated in this time and age). It -might- make sense if the powers that be were to decide to make the breton-lineage (and thus partially elf-blooded) reachmen a seperate race...

    For nords on the other hand, the cold resistance and general focus on physical toughness makes a LOT more sense, and the rest is also as it ought to be from the depictions of that race in TES lore.
    Remember, a few great mages and shamans nonwithstanding, the majority of nords are pretty skeptical towards magic, and prefer a strong arm and sturdy axe...

    And just living near volcanoes shouldn't make the Dunmer suddenly pyromancers. And yet they get a +7% bonus to fire damage which is higher than any other race - clearly this was given to them due to their home environment. Or do you think no race should have a bonus to elemental damage?

    Also, as I mentioned previously, the set Ysgramor's Birthright is a Nord set which is magicka-based and provides a bonus to cold damage. Not cold resist...cold damage: ADDS 4-400 SPELL DAMAGE TO YOUR FROST DAMAGE ABILITIES. Ice Furnace is another Nord set which can deal incremental flame damage when proc'd by dealing frost damage. Clearly the game has already linked Nords to cold/frost damage, no reason it couldn't be added to the racial passive.
    Edited by ANGEL_BtVS on January 30, 2018 8:28PM
  • Jade1986
    Jade1986
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    No
    ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »
    Jade1986 wrote: »
    Nords are traditionally a melee race who are against magic.....

    Arch-mage Shalidor (a Nord)
    600px-ON-npc-Arch-Mage_Shalidor.jpg


    Also, let's take a look at the set Ysgramor's Birthright (King Ysgramor is one of the most famous of all Nords). This set is in Nord style, magicka-based, and cold/frost based):

    itemLinkImage.php?itemid=34844&level=1&quality=3&enchantid=0&enchantintlevel=0&enchantinttype=0&v=&summary&potiondata=-1&stolen=-1&writ1=0&writ2=0&writ3=0&writ4=0&writ5=0&writ6=0&itemlink=&trait=0

    Yes, there are exceptions, but traditionally they are not adept in magic generally.
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Yes
    ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »
    Jade1986 wrote: »
    Nords are traditionally a melee race who are against magic.....

    Arch-mage Shalidor (a Nord)
    600px-ON-npc-Arch-Mage_Shalidor.jpg


    Also, let's take a look at the set Ysgramor's Birthright (King Ysgramor is one of the most famous of all Nords). This set is in Nord style, magicka-based, and cold/frost based):

    itemLinkImage.php?itemid=34844&level=1&quality=3&enchantid=0&enchantintlevel=0&enchantinttype=0&v=&summary&potiondata=-1&stolen=-1&writ1=0&writ2=0&writ3=0&writ4=0&writ5=0&writ6=0&itemlink=&trait=0

    He is an exception to the rule
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