The Problem with Shieldbreaker

BroanBeast1215 · January 2018

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Ummm a No, maybe you should rethink your playstyle, add some heavy armor, use a resto staff for the back bar, add some health..

the set was made to deal with and kill shield stackers

So you are telling me to slot heavy armor on a magicka sorc and stack into health?
-Rip damage
-Rip sustain
-Rip Light armor shield
-Rip magicka for damage and shields and sustain

I bet when you join pvp you write "lfg" to zone chat right? You have >>abolutly<< 0 idea about pvp aside from joining a 20+ ppl zerg.

Is joining a 20 person group still considered “zerging” when facing another 20 or 30 person group?

It’s large scale PVP. If you want small scale, play battlegrounds.

I’m tired of salty Leroy Jenkins that go head on into a larger force. “Stupid Zergs!!”

No. Stupid YOU.

that's not really how most smallscale pvpers play but mmkay. I play exclusively with a group of 2-4 players and if we jump into a zerg we know that we will die lol. the issue is that depending on your playtime you cannot escape the zerg

paallterrain148 · January 2018

I don't play magsorc so excuse my ignorance but what I've taken from this thread is.

Sorc can't be played without shield stacking and no healing.
One set directly counters shields by doing 2.1k damage.
The set is what's broken, not the class.
Nerf the set.

Did I miss anything? If not, I think you are fighting the wrong battle here. You need some flexibility in skill selection in your class choice. Argue for some classes tweaks that aren't damage related.

Most_Awesome · January 2018

YOU WOULD HAVE DIED TO THE POWER OF THE PHOENIX ANYWAY LONG LIVE BIG BOSS

olsborg · January 2018

Id vote yes for a change to shieldbreaker. It promotes idiotic gameplay in the current state

ToRelax · January 2018

paallterrain148 wrote: »

I don't play magsorc so excuse my ignorance but what I've taken from this thread is.

Sorc can't be played without shield stacking and no healing.
One set directly counters shields by doing 2.1k damage.
The set is what's broken, not the class.
Nerf the set.

Did I miss anything? If not, I think you are fighting the wrong battle here. You need some flexibility in skill selection in your class choice. Argue for some classes tweaks that aren't damage related.

Ofc that is needed. Ever since 1.6. Instead we got this set.

Kram8ion · January 2018

There's definitely not a problem with shield breaker it's pretty weak actually, it's specific tooltip means just that it's damaging to shielded enemies but garbage to anything else like fire damage to vamps and has counters to it also

Master_Kas · January 2018

This set shouldn't be in the game, or reworkeded imo.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Ummm a No, maybe you should rethink your playstyle, add some heavy armor, use a resto staff for the back bar, add some health..

the set was made to deal with and kill shield stackers

So you are telling me to slot heavy armor on a magicka sorc and stack into health?
-Rip damage
-Rip sustain
-Rip Light armor shield
-Rip magicka for damage and shields and sustain

I bet when you join pvp you write "lfg" to zone chat right? You have >>abolutly<< 0 idea about pvp aside from joining a 20+ ppl zerg.

awww those tears are awesome

DoctorESO · January 2018

.

ak_pvp · January 2018

Shieldbreaker is a trash counter to a trash mechanic. (stacking)

But lmao at big boss the dank bird using it within his zerg. He never ceases to give m a giggle.

ak_pvp · January 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hey guys,

i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:

This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.

And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.

Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken

Might want to white out the names. Naming and shaming is not allowed on these forums.

Its not NaS, since he isn't trashing them for using it. More just showing how it can kill sorcs so hard.

bardx86 · January 2018

techprince wrote: »

Remove shield stacking, then we wont need sb.

if you can't kill a sorc that stacks that a L2P. horrible response.

Derra · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mag sorc has a lot of problems, particularly the fact that they can't consistently do threatening damage to competent players alone, but if you're dying to shieldbreaker its definitely a build or positioning issue.

So you´re saying a set that forces you to be defensive even more than you already have to be on a class that can´t pressure competent opponents enough to kill them at this point is not problematic?

I mean you´re literally saying yourself the class has offensive problem rn - and then you say a set that forces you to play overly defensive when an opponent just lightattack spams you is the users fault for dying to?

I mean sure if you want the player to always bolt into the sunset as soon as he gets shieldbreakered that´s fine i guess. But if that´s your opinion i guess every sorc just has to respectully disagree.

Edit: Also saying that surge + RR counters shieldbreaker is very debateable. In a 1v1 against a competent nb you won´t land enough attacks for surge to even outheal entropy. This leaves you with basically only RR + healingward against a class that will also healdebuff you with every melee burstrota they do when not spamming shieldbreaker.
You won´t win that fight without line of sight + mines ever.

bardx86 · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mag sorc has a lot of problems, particularly the fact that they can't consistently do threatening damage to competent players alone, but if you're dying to shieldbreaker its definitely a build or positioning issue.

So you´re saying a set that forces you to be defensive even more than you already have to be on a class that can´t pressure competent opponents enough to kill them at this point is not problematic?

I mean you´re literally saying yourself the class has offensive problem rn - and then you say a set that forces you to play overly defensive when an opponent just lightattack spams you is the users fault for dying to?

I mean sure if you want the player to always bolt into the sunset as soon as he gets shieldbreakered that´s fine i guess. But if that´s your opinion i guess every sorc just has to respectully disagree.

Right!, super fun game play, not....

Azurya · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Hey guys,

i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:

This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.

And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.

Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken

Bringing some old pics, doesn´t make your pov more valuable
Shieldbreaker is awesome, but it hits only one person(due to the pics that is you)
and that person must not be aware what hits him, cause he does nothing to counterplay
and so gets hit so often on a row, till he is DEAD
don´t stay somewhere in the greens of cyro and go to get you something to eat or so

if I pass by, you are dead, because I use this gear for solo play
it is not OP, cauze the only benfit is this oblivion dmg, and
with some counterplay and movability, I am sooner dead then you

BohnT · January 2018

Azurya wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hey guys,

i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:

This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.

And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.

Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken

Bringing some old pics, doesn´t make your pov more valuable
Shieldbreaker is awesome, but it hits only one person(due to the pics that is you)
and that person must not be aware what hits him, cause he does nothing to counterplay
and so gets hit so often on a row, till he is DEAD
don´t stay somewhere in the greens of cyro and go to get you something to eat or so

if I pass by, you are dead, because I use this gear for solo play
it is not OP, cauze the only benfit is this oblivion dmg, and
with some counterplay and movability, I am sooner dead then you

Listen up folks one of the AD zerglings says SB is fine because he dies so fast

Unfadingsilence · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

100% L2P post here people just move on...

BTW I love when a sorc is getting hit with SB and what do they do?? Stack more shields.... smh like come on STOP STACKING SHIELDS!! put pressure on the kid using SB if that's his only way of killing you then just put pressure on them and kill them or watch them run GG

Thanks for the tip. Wow never thougth about it.

Stop stacking shields? Ye, i am light armor, squishy af so every skill in this game without my shields up is basicly 1 shot. Pressure the kid using SB? The kid is running with at least 10 more ppl whre also at least 3 ppl attacking you too. Lets say i want to focus him. Putting curse, frag, crushing shock. To kill him i need at least 3-4 seconds when he is really completly *** and don´t know how to heal or dodge. 3-4 seconds equals about 10k dmg on me. Just to kill him. I still need to find the one using it so this maybe 3-4 seconds more cause there are 10ppl around.

This is 100% not a L2P issue. This is a balance issue. Why not putting a CD on it? Why not only proccing on heavy attacks?

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Like I said above there are counters like los, burst heal, hot's, lingering health pots, apply pressure/cc, stop shielding, and making a more rounded build. A lingering health pot with mutagen would completely negate the sets damage and allow you to go on the offensive while still using a shield for the other person attacking you.

These counters are not working really.

Los? The person just need to look in my direction and the arrow will follow me around corners.
Burst heal? tell me my burst heal except from pets wich are useless in pvp
Hot´s? Mutagen? Mutagen can´t outheal SB and lingering health pots don´t recover stam or magicka wich is needed.
Apply pressure? I mention it above
Stop shielding? Look above

Making a more rounded build? There is no build to counter shieldbreaker.

In general: I know zeni will not nerf it cause there are tooo many casual player who complain about sorc being unkillable. I just wanted to discuss it cause i got really really triggered today cause there is NO valid counterplay

Why are you trying to 1vX if you can't 1VX then?? Sounds like it went from a 100% L2P to a 100% should not 1VX get in a group if you can't take on that many people

Knootewoot · January 2018

Naming and shaming is not allowed man. You should mask the names in your screens.

Derra · January 2018

Knootewoot wrote: »

Naming and shaming is not allowed man. You should mask the names in your screens.

It´s not naming and shaming though?
The topic of the debate is the mechanic of the set not the players using it.

If it would be forbidden to show player names at all regardless of circumstance they´d have to ban all videos aswell.

Biro123 · January 2018

Knootewoot wrote: »

Naming and shaming is not allowed man. You should mask the names in your screens.

These forums are funny... Everybody seems to hate stuff that enables zerglings, and makes 1vx harder yet takes no skill to use... soul assault, the old radiant, snipe spamming, cost poisons etc..

But when it comes to ShieldBreaker? Everyone seems to want to defend it.

And as usual - the response generally boils down to 'Be a much, much better player than the SB user' .. . I'm sure there's balance there somewhere..

*Edit - quoted the wrong post - sorry!

Feanor · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mag sorc has a lot of problems, particularly the fact that they can't consistently do threatening damage to competent players alone, but if you're dying to shieldbreaker its definitely a build or positioning issue.

So you´re saying a set that forces you to be defensive even more than you already have to be on a class that can´t pressure competent opponents enough to kill them at this point is not problematic?

I mean you´re literally saying yourself the class has offensive problem rn - and then you say a set that forces you to play overly defensive when an opponent just lightattack spams you is the users fault for dying to?

I mean sure if you want the player to always bolt into the sunset as soon as he gets shieldbreakered that´s fine i guess. But if that´s your opinion i guess every sorc just has to respectully disagree.

Edit: Also saying that surge + RR counters shieldbreaker is very debateable. In a 1v1 against a competent nb you won´t land enough attacks for surge to even outheal entropy. This leaves you with basically only RR + healingward against a class that will also healdebuff you with every melee burstrota they do when not spamming shieldbreaker.
You won´t win that fight without line of sight + mines ever.

Pretty much nailed it. QFT.

techprince · January 2018

bardx86 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Remove shield stacking, then we wont need sb.

if you can't kill a sorc that stacks that a L2P. horrible response.

If you can't survive someone with sb then thats l2p as well, horrible post. Learn to adapt or die its that simple.

BohnT · January 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Naming and shaming is not allowed man. You should mask the names in your screens.

These forums are funny... Everybody seems to hate stuff that enables zerglings, and makes 1vx harder yet takes no skill to use... soul assault, the old radiant, snipe spamming, cost poisons etc..

But when it comes to ShieldBreaker? Everyone seems to want to defend it.

And as usual - the response generally boils down to 'Be a much, much better player than the SB user' .. . I'm sure there's balance there somewhere..

*Edit - quoted the wrong post - sorry!

That's just wrong, this forum is filled by people using 1 class and defending everything they utilise as much as possible.
Go to a Soulassault post and you see how many say L2P, check the warden birds post any posts about curse stacking or overloaded abilities like incap, shimmer shield etc.
There should be a balance discussion forum that you should only be allowed to discuss in if you've played all specs for more than one week

Feanor · January 2018

Cloakbreaker

2 items: Adds 1096 Magicka
3 items: Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player using a cloak ability you deal an additional 2150 Damage to them for every second the player is invisible.

BohnT · January 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Cloakbreaker

2 items: Adds 1096 Magicka
3 items: Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player using a cloak ability you deal an additional 2150 Damage to them for every second the player is invisible.

Good luck hitting people in stealth with LA/ Ha except for lightning staves

Feanor · January 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Cloakbreaker

2 items: Adds 1096 Magicka
3 items: Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player using a cloak ability you deal an additional 2150 Damage to them for every second the player is invisible.

Good luck hitting people in stealth with LA/ Ha except for lightning staves

That’s not the idea. I hit them before they cloak and the damage ticks every second when they cloak. Would be comparable to Oblivion damage vs a shield. Like a debuff attached that triggers when cloak is used.

Azurya · January 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hey guys,

i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:

This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.

And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.

Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken

Bringing some old pics, doesn´t make your pov more valuable
Shieldbreaker is awesome, but it hits only one person(due to the pics that is you)
and that person must not be aware what hits him, cause he does nothing to counterplay
and so gets hit so often on a row, till he is DEAD
don´t stay somewhere in the greens of cyro and go to get you something to eat or so

if I pass by, you are dead, because I use this gear for solo play
it is not OP, cauze the only benfit is this oblivion dmg, and
with some counterplay and movability, I am sooner dead then you

Listen up folks one of the AD zerglings says SB is fine because he dies so fast

to be open and honest I am DC to the core!
and my stamsorc runs this set
not because it is good
just because it is fun to become heated comments from those who die cauze of it

Azurya · January 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Cloakbreaker

2 items: Adds 1096 Magicka
3 items: Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player using a cloak ability you deal an additional 2150 Damage to them for every second the player is invisible.

aaaaaahh, LoL,
those annoyed shieldspammers

I don´t write anything cauze I die by fragments or your destrostaff-ultis, which are really way to OP!
I just don´t care

ToRelax · January 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Cloakbreaker

2 items: Adds 1096 Magicka
3 items: Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player using a cloak ability you deal an additional 2150 Damage to them for every second the player is invisible.

The thing about shieldbreaker is, is hard counters both the main defense mechanic and heal of magicka sorcs. It's much easier for a NB to outheal it.

Feanor · January 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Cloakbreaker

2 items: Adds 1096 Magicka
3 items: Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player using a cloak ability you deal an additional 2150 Damage to them for every second the player is invisible.

The thing about shieldbreaker is, is hard counters both the main defense mechanic and heal of magicka sorcs. It's much easier for a NB to outheal it.

For the record, I only use Empowered Ward and Healing Ward even in noCP and thus am not really shield stacking. I obviously wouldn’t want a Cloakbreaker set to be introduced in the game. It’s just to illustrate how bad designing a set with the sole purpose of taking away a main class defense ability is.