The Problem with Shieldbreaker

Tan9oSuccka · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Ummm a No, maybe you should rethink your playstyle, add some heavy armor, use a resto staff for the back bar, add some health..

the set was made to deal with and kill shield stackers

So you are telling me to slot heavy armor on a magicka sorc and stack into health?
-Rip damage
-Rip sustain
-Rip Light armor shield
-Rip magicka for damage and shields and sustain

I bet when you join pvp you write "lfg" to zone chat right? You have >>abolutly<< 0 idea about pvp aside from joining a 20+ ppl zerg.

Is joining a 20 person group still considered “zerging” when facing another 20 or 30 person group?

It’s large scale PVP. If you want small scale, play battlegrounds.

I’m tired of salty Leroy Jenkins that go head on into a larger force. “Stupid Zergs!!”

No. Stupid YOU.

Sanctum74 · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

A quick forum search on shield breaker will bring up hundreds if not thousands of comments about all of the working counters to shield breaker. Use them or don't use them, you have choices.

I can´t find anything to counter if you are solo or in a smal group without a healbot. On a sorc, your healing comes from healing ward, wich is a shield and the initial heal from it is like 1-2k. So you can´t outheal it. You can use dark deal wich also heals but for example. If you are fighting 2 player solo. 1 is using shieldbreaker.

1. You need your shield against the other dude who focus you.
2. When you use shield you get INSANE dmg from the shieldbreaker user.

This is basicly rip. And it should not be like this. PvP should be a place where the skill and only the skill defines if you win or not. Not by some bs sets that do the dmg for you like shieldbreaker, skoria, selene, velidreth and the upcoming zaan.

I just find it frustrating that ppl who don´t want to learn the game and the mechanics are giving these kind of sets to compensate. Its like a shooter where ppl who don´t want to learn get a free aimbot so they only need to press fire.

ESO´s PvP is dominated by zergs and Zenimax just removing any counterplay to zergs. From my exp every zerg has a shieldbreaker, 20+ earthgores or how this monster set is called and 15 destro ultimates.

Try to burst a zerg? Nah, they have earthgore wich will save them all
Kite a zerg? Nah they have shieldbreaker
Tank a Zerg? Nah they have unblockable destro

I can go on at this forever cause in the current state of the game + the latency in prime time there is no competitve pvp wich is just sad for this great game with really good combat system.

I do agree with you about proc sets being cheesy and the game should rely more on skill, but unfortunately Zos has a different vision that it's customer base doesn't agree with and doesn't look like they are gonna change any time soon based on the continued release of even more cheese sets. Woo run on sentence, sorry about that, lol.

So should they nerf one proc set that has many counters available yet still leave even cheesier sets like VD and earthgore? Based on the countless posts through the years on this subject it doesn't look like they are going to change it so it's either adapt your build and play style or get back on that horse and try again.

Like I said above there are counters like los, burst heal, hot's, lingering health pots, apply pressure/cc, stop shielding, and making a more rounded build. A lingering health pot with mutagen would completely negate the sets damage and allow you to go on the offensive while still using a shield for the other person attacking you.

You have options for SB, but unfortunately getting Zos to stop putting more and more cheese into this game is not one of them.

montjie · January 2018

Was quite surprised to see it proc on shimmering shield. Other than that...meh

Gnozo · January 2018

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Is joining a 20 person group still considered “zerging” when facing another 20 or 30 person group?

It’s large scale PVP. If you want small scale, play battlegrounds.

I’m tired of salty Leroy Jenkins that go head on into a larger force. “Stupid Zergs!!”

No. Stupid YOU.

If this 20+ ppl group is chasing 1 sorc from alessia to brindle then, yes.

I would play battlegrounds if i can choose my gamemode. i am not intrested in gamemodes where the tactics to win is just to run for flags and ignore other players cause when you pvp for 1 minute you loose all your flags.

I mean i love and i hate zergs. I love fighting outnumbered cause its just such a good feeling when you kill 10+ppl while you where only 2 or 3. It takes practice and a lot of skill and the adrenaline you get from these fights is insane.

But you know what? Timing every skill right to for example nuke some players from a zerg and before they die Earthgore Pops and healing them back to 50% and the healbots do the rest is just not balanced. It requires no work, no timing. nothing. Just slot earthgore and do mutagen every few secs = immortal.

Same with shieldbreaker. You want to face 3-4 enemies? Ofc they have one healbot so he needs to die first. So full focus and to not get reked by the other 3 ppl you take care of your shields but there is 1 guy. JUST doing light attacks with SB. RIP. you need maybe 1-2 sec to know who is spamming it. Already 4-5k done to you. Trying to kill him? Not gonna work cause healbot just gonna bol to heaven while he can just keep doing light attacks. This is just stupid in my opinion.

Unfadingsilence · January 2018

100% L2P post here people just move on...

BTW I love when a sorc is getting hit with SB and what do they do?? Stack more shields.... smh like come on STOP STACKING SHIELDS!! put pressure on the kid using SB if that's his only way of killing you then just put pressure on them and kill them or watch them run GG

Feanor · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hey guys,

i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:

This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.

And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.

Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken

Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.

You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.

It also puts you at a direct disadvantage against anyone who runs shields and isn't a mag sorc. Mageblade and warden both have enough native healing to brush off shieldbreaker.

It's literally only useful against mag sorcs who also invest nothing at all into healing. Imo, dying to shieldbreaker is a build and skill issue for sure. First off, shieldbreaker has a very obvious audio cue. If you hear the plinking noise of shieldbreaker proc'ing you must immediately seek LoS OR pop a lingering health pot. What you do from there depends on if you had a lingering pot, with the pot active you can seek the shieldbreaker user and kill them. If you didn't have a pot then you need to maintain LoS while identifying and killing the shieldbreaker user.

Or you could just find a way to fit some healing in your build, its not like you don't have 3 bars to figure out where to slot skills.

Shieldbreaker is a bad set, but dying to it is almost always your fault. The noise is too obvious and if you're getting it proc'ed on you 5+ times like we see in this recap then you're just not playing smart.

So, essentially, you’re saying it’s running combat prayer and draining your Magicka, block and drain the already scarce Stamina, having a Resto Ult up, a specific pot not on cooldown, growing a tree so you can LoS, or play a pet build.

But if dying to SB is always the fault of the target as you say, then the set probably needs a buff. It isn’t doing it’s job of obliterating those filthy shield stackers then.

Emotional much?

First, block is irrelevant against shieldbreaker because its oblivion damage. Second, as a solo sorc positioning is your most important tool, because shield stacking is already quite inadequate as a defensive mechanic in an outnumbered situation, without LoS you're gonna be forced to shield stack and never be able to go offensive anyway.

You realize that lingering pots have 100% uptime? You realize that rapid regen shuts this set down totally and is available at something like 70% uptime without needing a skill slot on mag sorc if you just choose the non-offensive resto ult? Nah, you don't want to make meaningful build decisions to be prepared for every situation, you'd rather build to mash potatoes and complain when one of the potatoes dedicates a whole 5pc to trying to kill you

Mag sorc has a lot of problems, particularly the fact that they can't consistently do threatening damage to competent players alone, but if you're dying to shieldbreaker its definitely a build or positioning issue.

Me? I’m not emotional, no. I accept that dying in Cyro is the result of wrong choices or a situation that couldn’t end otherwise. I’m not upset either. I just find it extremely funny that people still defend a set that was made to take out the main defense of a class by stating it’s a L2P issue.

That was the reason I was only half jokingly asking if the set needs a buff then because it fails the design goal. Sorcs are the only class which got a set that is specifically targeted at them. Why? Because people still have that image fixed in their head that a Sorc streaks from Bleakers to Faregyl while having 30k shields up and one shotting targets meanwhile.

The funny thing is you’re saying the set isn’t even needed - which is correct. As for your counters - yes, of course on paper viable. Your lingering health pot restores 898 health per second and blocks all other pots you might want to use, especially if you use pots on cooldown. Rapid Regen works great if you’re solo, but when another player is around you can’t control the heal at all.

It’s moot though. There are always people thinking cheese is totally fine.

Edit: I can agree that dying to SB alone should never happen. But you know full well it’s never SB alone. It adds damage the opponent doesn’t have to spend any resources on while still maintaining the other damage on top.

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hey guys,

i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:

This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.

And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.

Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken

Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.

You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.

It also puts you at a direct disadvantage against anyone who runs shields and isn't a mag sorc. Mageblade and warden both have enough native healing to brush off shieldbreaker.

It's literally only useful against mag sorcs who also invest nothing at all into healing. Imo, dying to shieldbreaker is a build and skill issue for sure. First off, shieldbreaker has a very obvious audio cue. If you hear the plinking noise of shieldbreaker proc'ing you must immediately seek LoS OR pop a lingering health pot. What you do from there depends on if you had a lingering pot, with the pot active you can seek the shieldbreaker user and kill them. If you didn't have a pot then you need to maintain LoS while identifying and killing the shieldbreaker user.

Or you could just find a way to fit some healing in your build, its not like you don't have 3 bars to figure out where to slot skills.

Shieldbreaker is a bad set, but dying to it is almost always your fault. The noise is too obvious and if you're getting it proc'ed on you 5+ times like we see in this recap then you're just not playing smart.

So, essentially, you’re saying it’s running combat prayer and draining your Magicka, block and drain the already scarce Stamina, having a Resto Ult up, a specific pot not on cooldown, growing a tree so you can LoS, or play a pet build.

But if dying to SB is always the fault of the target as you say, then the set probably needs a buff. It isn’t doing it’s job of obliterating those filthy shield stackers then.

Emotional much?

First, block is irrelevant against shieldbreaker because its oblivion damage. Second, as a solo sorc positioning is your most important tool, because shield stacking is already quite inadequate as a defensive mechanic in an outnumbered situation, without LoS you're gonna be forced to shield stack and never be able to go offensive anyway.

You realize that lingering pots have 100% uptime? You realize that rapid regen shuts this set down totally and is available at something like 70% uptime without needing a skill slot on mag sorc if you just choose the non-offensive resto ult? Nah, you don't want to make meaningful build decisions to be prepared for every situation, you'd rather build to mash potatoes and complain when one of the potatoes dedicates a whole 5pc to trying to kill you

Mag sorc has a lot of problems, particularly the fact that they can't consistently do threatening damage to competent players alone, but if you're dying to shieldbreaker its definitely a build or positioning issue.

Me? I’m not emotional, no. I accept that dying in Cyro is the result of wrong choices or a situation that couldn’t end otherwise. I’m not upset either. I just find it extremely funny that people still defend a set that was made to take out the main defense of a class by stating it’s a L2P issue.

That was the reason I was only half jokingly asking if the set needs a buff then because it fails the design goal. Sorcs are the only class which got a set that is specifically targeted at them. Why? Because people still have that image fixed in their head that a Sorc streaks from Bleakers to Faregyl while having 30k shields up and one shotting targets meanwhile.

The funny thing is you’re saying the set isn’t even needed - which is correct. As for your counters - yes, of course on paper viable. Your lingering health pot restores 898 health per second and blocks all other pots you might want to use, especially if you use pots on cooldown. Rapid Regen works great if you’re solo, but when another player is around you can’t control the heal at all.

It’s moot though. There are always people thinking cheese is totally fine.

Look, mag sorc is in a bad place, no question. I genuinely get surprised when I die to a mag sorc and I never really feel fear when I encounter one because I know even top tier sorcs cannot reasonably kill me without a few mistakes on my part.

However, simply changing to the other resto ult morph *** on SB users. Lingering pots do base 898 healing, plus healing modifiers, plus health regen, plus native healing means that at 20k health the SB user would need something like 30 seconds of uninterrupted light attacks to secure a kill. In that situation it’s basically always superior to run a different 5pc.

I think shieldbreaker is obviously poor design and likely shouldn’t exist, but the OP comes here showing himself eating shieldbreaker light attack spam and dying. Idk how that can be perceived as anything other than a build or skill issue.

Outside of building a bit more healing, countering shieldbreaker fits into what a magsorc already does; Use LoS and positioning as your prime mitigation tool while running burst combos on squishies that you’ve isolated. If you treat the shieldbreaker audio cue the same way you treat any other dangerous situation you’ll usually have decent results as long as you’ve made informed build decisions. If you know this set exists and don’t have something ready to counter it then it’s a build decision.

Gnozo · January 2018

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

100% L2P post here people just move on...

BTW I love when a sorc is getting hit with SB and what do they do?? Stack more shields.... smh like come on STOP STACKING SHIELDS!! put pressure on the kid using SB if that's his only way of killing you then just put pressure on them and kill them or watch them run GG

Thanks for the tip. Wow never thougth about it.

Stop stacking shields? Ye, i am light armor, squishy af so every skill in this game without my shields up is basicly 1 shot. Pressure the kid using SB? The kid is running with at least 10 more ppl whre also at least 3 ppl attacking you too. Lets say i want to focus him. Putting curse, frag, crushing shock. To kill him i need at least 3-4 seconds when he is really completly *** and don´t know how to heal or dodge. 3-4 seconds equals about 10k dmg on me. Just to kill him. I still need to find the one using it so this maybe 3-4 seconds more cause there are 10ppl around.

This is 100% not a L2P issue. This is a balance issue. Why not putting a CD on it? Why not only proccing on heavy attacks?

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Like I said above there are counters like los, burst heal, hot's, lingering health pots, apply pressure/cc, stop shielding, and making a more rounded build. A lingering health pot with mutagen would completely negate the sets damage and allow you to go on the offensive while still using a shield for the other person attacking you.

These counters are not working really.

Los? The person just need to look in my direction and the arrow will follow me around corners.
Burst heal? tell me my burst heal except from pets wich are useless in pvp
Hot´s? Mutagen? Mutagen can´t outheal SB and lingering health pots don´t recover stam or magicka wich is needed.
Apply pressure? I mention it above
Stop shielding? Look above

Making a more rounded build? There is no build to counter shieldbreaker.

In general: I know zeni will not nerf it cause there are tooo many casual player who complain about sorc being unkillable. I just wanted to discuss it cause i got really really triggered today cause there is NO valid counterplay

Tan9oSuccka · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Is joining a 20 person group still considered “zerging” when facing another 20 or 30 person group?

It’s large scale PVP. If you want small scale, play battlegrounds.

I’m tired of salty Leroy Jenkins that go head on into a larger force. “Stupid Zergs!!”

No. Stupid YOU.

If this 20+ ppl group is chasing 1 sorc from alessia to brindle then, yes.

I would play battlegrounds if i can choose my gamemode. i am not intrested in gamemodes where the tactics to win is just to run for flags and ignore other players cause when you pvp for 1 minute you loose all your flags.

I mean i love and i hate zergs. I love fighting outnumbered cause its just such a good feeling when you kill 10+ppl while you where only 2 or 3. It takes practice and a lot of skill and the adrenaline you get from these fights is insane.

But you know what? Timing every skill right to for example nuke some players from a zerg and before they die Earthgore Pops and healing them back to 50% and the healbots do the rest is just not balanced. It requires no work, no timing. nothing. Just slot earthgore and do mutagen every few secs = immortal.

Same with shieldbreaker. You want to face 3-4 enemies? Ofc they have one healbot so he needs to die first. So full focus and to not get reked by the other 3 ppl you take care of your shields but there is 1 guy. JUST doing light attacks with SB. RIP. you need maybe 1-2 sec to know who is spamming it. Already 4-5k done to you. Trying to kill him? Not gonna work cause healbot just gonna bol to heaven while he can just keep doing light attacks. This is just stupid in my opinion.

If the 20 person group was on the way to do something (attack a Keep or castle) and they see you derping around. They should kill you.

Now, if your a high level guy trying to cheese potatoes around rocks and trees. I don’t even bother.

Gnozo · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Look, mag sorc is in a bad place, no question. I genuinely get surprised when I die to a mag sorc and I never really feel fear when I encounter one because I know even top tier sorcs cannot reasonably kill me without a few mistakes on my part.

However, simply changing to the other resto ult morph *** on SB users. Lingering pots do base 898 healing, plus healing modifiers, plus health regen, plus native healing means that at 20k health the SB user would need something like 30 seconds of uninterrupted light attacks to secure a kill. In that situation it’s basically always superior to run a different 5pc.

I think shieldbreaker is obviously poor design and likely shouldn’t exist, but the OP comes here showing himself eating shieldbreaker light attack spam and dying. Idk how that can be perceived as anything other than a build or skill issue.

Outside of building a bit more healing, countering shieldbreaker fits into what a magsorc already does; Use LoS and positioning as your prime mitigation tool while running burst combos on squishies that you’ve isolated. If you treat the shieldbreaker audio cue the same way you treat any other dangerous situation you’ll usually have decent results as long as you’ve made informed build decisions. If you know this set exists and don’t have something ready to counter it then it’s a build decision.

Man, i am not a bad player. I know how to kite and break the los. As soon as i hear the shieldbreaker sound i am streaking like crazy breaking any los to the ppl chasing me.

For example the 2nd picture with big boss. I was breaking the los. Using rocks, trees everything i found. They mounted up, using gap closer like chain and everything. Every streak i do, they do a gap closer and putting some like attacks in it.

Shieldbreaker needs a cooldown. Its just overperforming.

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Look, mag sorc is in a bad place, no question. I genuinely get surprised when I die to a mag sorc and I never really feel fear when I encounter one because I know even top tier sorcs cannot reasonably kill me without a few mistakes on my part.

However, simply changing to the other resto ult morph *** on SB users. Lingering pots do base 898 healing, plus healing modifiers, plus health regen, plus native healing means that at 20k health the SB user would need something like 30 seconds of uninterrupted light attacks to secure a kill. In that situation it’s basically always superior to run a different 5pc.

I think shieldbreaker is obviously poor design and likely shouldn’t exist, but the OP comes here showing himself eating shieldbreaker light attack spam and dying. Idk how that can be perceived as anything other than a build or skill issue.

Outside of building a bit more healing, countering shieldbreaker fits into what a magsorc already does; Use LoS and positioning as your prime mitigation tool while running burst combos on squishies that you’ve isolated. If you treat the shieldbreaker audio cue the same way you treat any other dangerous situation you’ll usually have decent results as long as you’ve made informed build decisions. If you know this set exists and don’t have something ready to counter it then it’s a build decision.

Man, i am not a bad player. I know how to kite and break the los. As soon as i hear the shieldbreaker sound i am streaking like crazy breaking any los to the ppl chasing me.

For example the 2nd picture with big boss. I was breaking the los. Using rocks, trees everything i found. They mounted up, using gap closer like chain and everything. Every streak i do, they do a gap closer and putting some like attacks in it.

Shieldbreaker needs a cooldown. Its just overperforming.

It isn't overperforming, its only usable against 1/10 class spec combos and even then its less useful than other sets if they've built to deal with it

Gnozo · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

It isn't overperforming, its only usable against 1/10 class spec combos and even then its less useful than other sets if they've built to deal with it

Nobody who takes pvp serious would make a build just to counter one specific setup. Thats stupid. Like shieldbreaker.

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

It isn't overperforming, its only usable against 1/10 class spec combos and even then its less useful than other sets if they've built to deal with it

Nobody who takes pvp serious would make a build just to counter one specific setup. Thats stupid. Like shieldbreaker.

I don't think changing morphs on a defensive ult and having multiple potion options is a bad decision. But then I'm not the type to come crying on forums because I died to something.

ToRelax · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hey guys,

i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:

This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.

And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.

Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken

Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.

You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.

It also puts you at a direct disadvantage against anyone who runs shields and isn't a mag sorc. Mageblade and warden both have enough native healing to brush off shieldbreaker.

It's literally only useful against mag sorcs who also invest nothing at all into healing. Imo, dying to shieldbreaker is a build and skill issue for sure. First off, shieldbreaker has a very obvious audio cue. If you hear the plinking noise of shieldbreaker proc'ing you must immediately seek LoS OR pop a lingering health pot. What you do from there depends on if you had a lingering pot, with the pot active you can seek the shieldbreaker user and kill them. If you didn't have a pot then you need to maintain LoS while identifying and killing the shieldbreaker user.

Or you could just find a way to fit some healing in your build, its not like you don't have 3 bars to figure out where to slot skills.

Shieldbreaker is a bad set, but dying to it is almost always your fault. The noise is too obvious and if you're getting it proc'ed on you 5+ times like we see in this recap then you're just not playing smart.

Sorry, but that's a load of crap.
Outhealing shieldbreaker with HoTs is great when you can stack enough of them without sacrificing too much for it, but that doesn't make shieldbreaker useless at all for the zergling who only attacks you while others pressure you anyway.
You can only take a lingering health potion when it's not already on cooldown and it doesn't outheal shieldbreaker by itself, either.
Rapid Regen does not outheal shieldbreaker, either. It gives you more time to burst the target down, once identified. That's it.
But what is really insulting is using death recaps like this to judge an outnumbered player's skill level. What I can see in both screenshots is that this Sorc was fighting several players, one of whom used the set, and taking heavy pressure both on the shield and under it. Not cool.

Gnozo · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I don't think changing morphs on a defensive ult and having multiple potion options is a bad decision. But then I'm not the type to come crying on forums because I died to something.

Then tell me right right morph of it. I am using Lights Champion. Ofc i could put lingering health pots in my quicklot bar but i also would need to slot Rapid or Mutagen on my bar wich is way more harder cause i need to drop a skill for this. Just to counter a broken set? Nah.

Shieldbreaker can stay in the game but that its proccing on EVERY light attack where you can really spam light attacks is just too much. It needs a cooldown or only proccing on every 3rd light attack or something. Just a smal adjustment would still makes this set a counter to magicka sorc but it wouldn´t be broken like this.

Gnozo · January 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

But what is really insulting is using death recaps like this to judge an outnumbered player's skill level. What I can see in both screenshots is that this Sorc was fighting several players, one of whom used the set, and taking heavy pressure both on the shield and under it. Not cool.

I love you man.

Lexxypwns · January 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hey guys,

i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:

This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.

And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.

Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken

Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.

You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.

It also puts you at a direct disadvantage against anyone who runs shields and isn't a mag sorc. Mageblade and warden both have enough native healing to brush off shieldbreaker.

It's literally only useful against mag sorcs who also invest nothing at all into healing. Imo, dying to shieldbreaker is a build and skill issue for sure. First off, shieldbreaker has a very obvious audio cue. If you hear the plinking noise of shieldbreaker proc'ing you must immediately seek LoS OR pop a lingering health pot. What you do from there depends on if you had a lingering pot, with the pot active you can seek the shieldbreaker user and kill them. If you didn't have a pot then you need to maintain LoS while identifying and killing the shieldbreaker user.

Or you could just find a way to fit some healing in your build, its not like you don't have 3 bars to figure out where to slot skills.

Shieldbreaker is a bad set, but dying to it is almost always your fault. The noise is too obvious and if you're getting it proc'ed on you 5+ times like we see in this recap then you're just not playing smart.

Sorry, but that's a load of crap.
Outhealing shieldbreaker with HoTs is great when you can stack enough of them without sacrificing too much for it, but that doesn't make shieldbreaker useless at all for the zergling who only attacks you while others pressure you anyway.
You can only take a lingering health potion when it's not already on cooldown and it doesn't outheal shieldbreaker by itself, either.
Rapid Regen does not outheal shieldbreaker, either. It gives you more time to burst the target down, once identified. That's it.
But what is really insulting is using death recaps like this to judge an outnumbered player's skill level. What I can see in both screenshots is that this Sorc was fighting several players, one of whom used the set, and taking heavy pressure both on the shield and under it. Not cool.

Rapid Regen+native health regen, with a crit rate of 41% will consistently outheal shieldbreaker when paired with surge healing...

Lingering pots won’t, but they’ll get you really close.

Gnozo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I don't think changing morphs on a defensive ult and having multiple potion options is a bad decision. But then I'm not the type to come crying on forums because I died to something.

Then tell me right right morph of it. I am using Lights Champion. Ofc i could put lingering health pots in my quicklot bar but i also would need to slot Rapid or Mutagen on my bar wich is way more harder cause i need to drop a skill for this. Just to counter a broken set? Nah.

Shieldbreaker can stay in the game but that its proccing on EVERY light attack where you can really spam light attacks is just too much. It needs a cooldown or only proccing on every 3rd light attack or something. Just a smal adjustment would still makes this set a counter to magicka sorc but it wouldn´t be broken like this.

You have 14 skill slots(one is unusable since it’s a resto skill on overload bar that’s designed to get you back to your resto bar) and can’t use any of them for HoTs? Fair enough

Gnozo · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You have 14 skill slots(one is unusable since it’s a resto skill on overload bar that’s designed to get you back to your resto bar) and can’t use any of them for HoTs? Fair enough

Oh so you are telling me to slot my Resto Ult on my Overload bar and exploit this by using a resto skill? This is not the intented design of overload. I know its possible but not meant to work like this.

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You have 14 skill slots(one is unusable since it’s a resto skill on overload bar that’s designed to get you back to your resto bar) and can’t use any of them for HoTs? Fair enough

Oh so you are telling me to slot my Resto Ult on my Overload bar and exploit this by using a resto skill? This is not the intented design of overload. I know its possible but not meant to work like this.

It's been reported hundreds of times and nobody has ever even acknowledged it from ZoS. I think it is safe to say that it is not an exploit.

Its publicly disucssed on forums and the exact method to do it has been published on these forums numerous times without any issues. activate overload, go to skills, drag resto ult into the overload slot, make sure you have a resto skill on the bar so that you can get out of overload. I don't think this can safely be called an exploit at all.

You forum sorcs are the worst, just slot rapid regen and run boundless on your overload bar

Zer0oo · January 2018

So 2.1k damage per 0.6 sec is outhealable as sorc even if someone is also else is also attacking you?
If i remember correctly someone tested this set when it first came out that you had to use every single healing ability on the restro staff to out heal it and even then it was not really enough.
@Lexxypwns

I am sure you could proof it with a video of you beating a group of 3-5 ppl who are using shieldbreaker.
If you have problems to find a group with shieldbreaker just come pc eu and kill a few time certain ppl and they will happily equip shieldbreaker for you and chase you over the whole map.

I personal if i hear the shieldbreaker sound just run away, which is sadly the best strategy in most cases. Note that i will remember the name of every single shieldbreaker abuser and will do my best to focus them asap if i see them again or will even /w an enemy player to tell them where the shieldbreaker user is.

Gnozo · January 2018

I am not using boundless. its useless with shields.

And i am not willing to get forced into using one specific skill and pot just to counter SB. Its just overperforming at this point. Like i said, it don´t needs to be removed just getting a cooldown. Thats it. With Cooldown, i am fine with this set

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Zer0oo wrote: »

So 2.1k damage per 0.6 sec is outhealable as sorc even if someone is also else is also attacking you?
If i remember correctly someone tested this set when it first came out that you had to use every single healing ability on the restro staff to out heal it and even then it was not really enough.
@Lexxypwns

I am sure you could proof it with a video of you beating a group of 3-5 ppl who are using shieldbreaker.
If you have problems to find a group with shieldbreaker just come pc eu and kill a few time certain ppl and they will happily equip shieldbreaker for you and chase you over the whole map.

I personal if i hear the shieldbreaker sound just run away, which is sadly the best strategy in most cases. Note that i will remember the name of every single shieldbreaker abuser and will do my best to focus them asap if i see them again or will even /w an enemy player to tell them where the shieldbreaker user is.

If you're outnumbered 3-5 times as a solo sorc you're either doing so much kiting that someone can't reliably proc shieldbreaker on you every single possible GCD or you're dead without shieldbreaker being present.

You guys keep presenting these scenarios that don't make sense. If you're using LoS properly and being mindful of the shieldbreaker user then prioritizing and nuking him then its irrelevant what his theoretical max possible damage is. If you're outnumbered as a sorc you're already using LoS properly and being mindful of your biggest threats and nuking them as soon as you can isolate them with LoS. I don't see what the difference is here in playstyle, it comes down to how you build. Either shieldbreaker is annoying enough that you push boundless to your overload bar and slot rapid regen or its not, but if you're dying to it outnumbered its because they're stopping you from doing things you should already be doing as a sorc.

The playstyle to counter shieldbreaker is already the playstyle mag sorc uses when outnumbered, it comes down to if you made the decision to build to counter this particular set or not.

Furthermore, you do NOT need to outheal shieldbreaker, you just need to heal enough and for long enough to identify and prioritize the target OR change position/escape

I'm out of this thread though, I can't keep fighting with forum sorcs, I feel so bad for mag sorcs for being so pathetic as a class that I can't even hate you guys for complaining.

edit: For example, how does a stam spec counter a defile build when outnumbered? That's a much more pressing issue than shieldbreaker imo since 60%+ defile can be achieved without sacrificing a single set bonus.

Kolache · January 2018

I'd be cool with shieldbreaker going away if shield stackers could only stack shields by wearing a specific set that allowed them to do it (and that didn't work against anyone without a shield).

Gnozo · January 2018

Tbh i am also tired of trying to prove that this set is op cause i have the feeling that not many players are understandig it. I can do as much los as i want. If i show myself to burst the SB kid i am getting so much dmg that i am dead before he is dead or i die after i killed him cause every other player around will focus me while i lost 80% of my hp while having 20k shields up.

You know keeping up the shields while also landing a decent combo to kill players takes skill and practice and all this work is just getting destroyed by this set.

i am not talking and dicussing defile. I am just getting cancer from this ***.

technohic · January 2018

You're not beating 2100 DPS? Youch!

Sanctum74 · January 2018

Gnozo wrote: »

Tbh i am also tired of trying to prove that this set is op cause i have the feeling that not many players are understandig it. I can do as much los as i want. If i show myself to burst the SB kid i am getting so much dmg that i am dead before he is dead or i die after i killed him cause every other player around will focus me while i lost 80% of my hp while having 20k shields up.

You know keeping up the shields while also landing a decent combo to kill players takes skill and practice and all this work is just getting destroyed by this set.

i am not talking and dicussing defile. I am just getting cancer from this ***.

So having 20k shields isn't cancerous, but 2100 dps that requires a 5 piece set is? Not to mention you said you don't want to have to slot different skills, pots, or adjust your build to counter it? If your not willing to use the working counters available then there really is no reason to nerf the set.

With the increase of CP and the Zerg mentality it's just getting harder to 1vX so you either have to adapt or deal with it. If your only relying on one form of mitigation then your gonna be toast whether they are using SB or not. For my magic builds I use a combination of shields, hot's, and resistance for mitigation and it works every time against SB.

arkansas_ESO · January 2018

Rock paper scissors counters like this are boring and leads to the outcome of fights being decided before they even start

Derra · January 2018

Sanctum74 wrote: »

A quick forum search on shield breaker will bring up hundreds if not thousands of comments about all of the working counters to shield breaker. Use them or don't use them, you have choices.

Funny enough all these "working counters" are mostly combat tested and deemed vaible by the people shieldbreakering you

Seems legit.

Emma_Overload · January 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Hey guys,

i know this has been discussed many times but just look this:

This is 100% not balanced. Doing 2.1k dmg with shields up JUST by spamming light attacks with bow or inferno staff is really really not balanced. Put a CD on it or just make it proc only on heavy attacks. This requires 0 skill and is completly destroying magicka sorc cause we need the shields to stay alive. Rework Shieldbreaker. At its current state its just broken.

And before any of the comments comes like "remove shield stack" "put CD on shields". It requires actually a lot of work and practice to be good at shieldstacking and if you cant kill a sorc who is decent at shieldstacking you should probably rethink your build and playstyle.

Magicka Sorc is a class wich needs to be practiced a lot to be good at and its just bs that this no brain counter even exist in this game. Zenimax, since you like nerf pls take a look at shieldbreaker and these pictues i postet. This is just broken

Seems like many people are already re-thinking their build and using shield-breaker.

You can't be mad because there is a hard counter to your play-style. Using this set is a trade-off because it puts you at a direct disadvantage when fighting any target who does not use damage shields. That's balanced. You can be somewhat effective against everything or super effective against one specific thing. That creates diversity when people choose to build to counter against other builds.

LOL, SB does not put you at a "disadvantage". You give up ONE armor slot for that 5 pc bonus, which you can back bar on your Bow. ALL the rest of the bonuses (for 2, 3 and 4 pcs) are great for Stamina builds.

There are NO sets available to me as a Sorc to "hard counter" anybody, simply because there are no other sets in the game anywhere near as unbalanced or overpowered. Sorcs get killed every day by every other class... nobody needs this so-called hard counter!

techprince · January 2018

Remove shield stacking, then we wont need sb.