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Do you expect the same from digital as you do from physical? (products and services)
N00BxV1
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I'm interested in what others think about digital content providers (software developers, service providers, etc) and the standards they are allowed to operate by. I've seen enough people defending these million/billion-dollar companies and basically saying: "you don't have the right to complain when a product or service that you pay for isn't up to expectations." Well, I disagree with that mentality and believe that the paying customer does have the right to a better product and deserves for things to be fixed if broken.
Let me give some examples of how things usually work when purchasing physical products:
So now this brings me to the game's bugs and other things that seem to be allowed to exist for so long or even in the first place. I know bugs happen and things don't always work as intended. But to just allow things to remain this way for so long, or dismiss it like it isn't important, is mind-boggling and feels like being given the middle finger. It also seems like priorities are usually focused more on releasing new paid content rather than fixing the existing already-paid-for content. Yeah it's a company and needs to make money, but they've already made money and continue making it, so expecting fixes shouldn't be unheard of. All of these things apply to other companies as well, this isn't about bashing ZOS.
So, what do you think about it?
Edited by N00BxV1 on January 25, 2018 4:26AM Let me give some examples of how things usually work when purchasing physical products:
- Person goes to a grocery store to purchase some packaged meat. They inspect the package and everything seems ok. But when they get home and open it they discover that the meat is rotten on the inside. So then they just take it back to the store and get it replaced or refunded.
- Person goes to an automobile dealership to purchase a new car. They inspect the automobile and everything seems ok. But on the way home the axle breaks or the motor fails from no fault of their own. So then they just take it back to the dealer and get it fixed, replaced or refunded.
So now this brings me to the game's bugs and other things that seem to be allowed to exist for so long or even in the first place. I know bugs happen and things don't always work as intended. But to just allow things to remain this way for so long, or dismiss it like it isn't important, is mind-boggling and feels like being given the middle finger. It also seems like priorities are usually focused more on releasing new paid content rather than fixing the existing already-paid-for content. Yeah it's a company and needs to make money, but they've already made money and continue making it, so expecting fixes shouldn't be unheard of. All of these things apply to other companies as well, this isn't about bashing ZOS.
So, what do you think about it?
Do you expect the same from digital as you do from physical? (products and services) 45 votes
Yes
73%
33 votes
No
22%
10 votes
Other
4%
2 votes
1
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Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While I always expect that a digital product is fit for purpose and of a certain quality its simply different to a physical product.4 -
LadyAstrum✭✭✭✭✭
✭The standards should be the same. It often feels like being a gamer means some of your consumer rights suddenly disappear, and if you're not happy with something then it's "tough luck". Some people act like games are charitable services not products you've invested in. These gaming companies are not "doing us a favour" they are there to offer a product and make money on it, so there is no reason why the standards at which they operate should be any different to a physical product.~ "You think me brutish? How do you imagine I view you?" - Molag Bal #misunderstood ~4 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Consumer protections are equal for both digital and physical goods, under law. That's reason enough to hold game devs to a high standard.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa2 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Here in the UK it makes little difference nowadays. Digital and internet goods are more or less covered by the same consumer laws as the stuff you'd buy from brick and mortar shops.
Saying that, I get what you're saying to an extent. Some people are more than happy to take any old *** from faceless corps and prefer to stand with them than their fellow consumers. You see it a lot on almost any internet product forum. Thankfuly in the real world they're nothing but a vocal minority that people ignore as does the law.Edited by Prof_Bawbag on January 25, 2018 9:51AM1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It depends.
I think if someone is sold a faulty product then sure there is a reason to complain and expect fixes in due time.
However I think when people start to get upset that a game doesn't go in the direction they want with regards to changes then they need to understand it's not their game.
I see a lot of posts on the forums where people demand that ZOS does X because "we're the customers" and "they develop for us" which while still both true statements isn't what providing a game service is about.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
I'm voting no, because with digital media you are given a key and you consume that key. It's the same as getting the rotten meat, eating the rotten meat, throwing up, getting sick, and then asking for a refund. Although you do have recourse in the courts through product and health safety with the sold condition of the meat, but good luck transferring product and health safety to digital media.0 -
VexingArcanist✭✭✭✭I also expect the same quality customer service from an online source as I would get face to face. Call me Mr. Entitled.
Money is Money.2 -
Bax✭✭✭EU law actually requires digital products to have nearly the same refund policies as normal products. That's why for example steam had to change their refund policies quite heavily in last 2 years (at least in Europe, not sure if the same rules apply to non-EU countries as well). Generally EU currently pushes a lot of legislation in this field and is sort of trend setter. And because of that it's just sad to see that some people (especially if they are from EU) either don't know their rights or even defend companies which clearly goes against it.
That being said, it's not always the case and some things are just too different from real world. As for bugs, companies always try to fix them, but while in real world, problems are usually related to malfunctioning hardware which you can simply replace, in digital world, the problems are often more complex and need deep investigation. And if the bug only affect few people and those few people don't even bother to report it IN DETAIL (and no "my XYZ is broken, fix pls" is not proper bug report), it might be even impossible to duplicate the issue and investigate it. So when it comes to bug, you also need a bit of tolerance towards devs. The question in that case is if the game is still playable, and I think this game is in quite a good state. Obviously everyone has different view on this, but the question also is when the game become broken for you? Because in real world you also have just limited warranty. So if you enjoyed the game for quite a while and expect that it'll be refunded for you anytime when you start to dislike it, well that's weird.3 -
Bax✭✭✭Kevin_of_Devinshire wrote: »I'm voting no, because with digital media you are given a key and you consume that key. It's the same as getting the rotten meat, eating the rotten meat, throwing up, getting sick, and then asking for a refund. Although you do have recourse in the courts through product and health safety with the sold condition of the meat, but good luck transferring product and health safety to digital media.
This particular example is not true. EU court of justice clearly stated that digital licence cannot be limited to original owner and it must be transferable. So you can decide anytime to sell your game key and transfer it to other customer and Zenimax have to transfer it for you. However, you will lose your access to the game and this transfer only affects the core game itself. So any progress in game don't have to be transferred and new owner of your licence basically starts with a clear account.3 -
Milvan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't see how this subject relate to this forum.“Kings of the land and the sky we are; proud gryphons.” Stalker stands, the epitome of pride. Naked and muscular, his wings widen and his feet dig in as if he alone holds down the earth and supports the heavens, keeping the two ever separate.”
Gryphons guild - @Milvan,1 -
Some users seem to have a problem differentiating between the software being broken, not working as intended, and the software not working in the way that they would like, working as intended.
Software should work as intended and every effort should be made to fix it, or a refund offered.
If the software just doesn't do what you would like it to do, nor is it advertised as doing so, then you can try to negotiate a refund but the responsibility is on you to buy the correct software in the first place. Caveat emptor in the UK.3 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kevin_of_Devinshire wrote: »I'm voting no, because with digital media you are given a key and you consume that key. It's the same as getting the rotten meat, eating the rotten meat, throwing up, getting sick, and then asking for a refund. Although you do have recourse in the courts through product and health safety with the sold condition of the meat, but good luck transferring product and health safety to digital media.
Something's sound good in your head, doesn't mean they translate very well when put down in writing so everyone can see them. Still can't fathom out what rotten meat has to do with digital media. Well played for being 'that' guy I suppose.0 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
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The reason for this topic was because of the people I always see defending the companies and basically telling their fellow consumers to "stop whining" when something isn't up to their expectations. And I'm not talking about unwanted changes in the product; I'm talking about the performance, bugs, etc that actually affect the usage of the product. Just search any "complaint" thread and you'll probably find at least one of these people telling others to "stop whining."I don't see how this subject relate to this forum.
I almost deleted the examples because I figured someone would focus too much on that and it would divert attention from the actual point I was trying to make. I was just trying to explain that: it doesn't matter what type of product/service you paid for, you paid for a product/service and a certain level of quality should be expected, and the paying customer should have every right to voice their opinions and concerns.Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Kevin_of_Devinshire wrote: »I'm voting no, because with digital media you are given a key and you consume that key. It's the same as getting the rotten meat, eating the rotten meat, throwing up, getting sick, and then asking for a refund. Although you do have recourse in the courts through product and health safety with the sold condition of the meat, but good luck transferring product and health safety to digital media.
Something's sound good in your head, doesn't mean they translate very well when put down in writing so everyone can see them. Still can't fathom out what rotten meat has to do with digital media. Well played for being 'that' guy I suppose.Edited by N00BxV1 on February 5, 2018 7:56AM0 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
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The reason for this topic was because of the people I always see defending the companies and basically telling their fellow consumers to "stop whining" when something isn't up to their expectations. And I'm not talking about unwanted changes in the product; I'm talking about the performance, bugs, etc that actually affect the usage of the product. Just search any "complaint" thread and you'll probably find at least one of these people telling others to "stop whining."I don't see how this subject relate to this forum.
I almost deleted the examples because I figured someone would focus too much on that and it would divert attention from the actual point I was trying to make. I was just trying to explain that: it doesn't matter what type of product/service you paid for, you paid for a product/service and a certain level of quality should be expected, and the paying customer should have every right to voice their opinions and concerns.Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Kevin_of_Devinshire wrote: »I'm voting no, because with digital media you are given a key and you consume that key. It's the same as getting the rotten meat, eating the rotten meat, throwing up, getting sick, and then asking for a refund. Although you do have recourse in the courts through product and health safety with the sold condition of the meat, but good luck transferring product and health safety to digital media.
Something's sound good in your head, doesn't mean they translate very well when put down in writing so everyone can see them. Still can't fathom out what rotten meat has to do with digital media. Well played for being 'that' guy I suppose.
PS: As I said it's sometimes difficult to express things especially on the internet. It's even more difficult for someone who is Dyslexic or has other communication disorders caused by severe head trauma. Some people probably can't imagine the effort that went into trying to express all these thoughts through a machine... But let me tell you, it was not the highlight of my day.
I wasn't aiming my comment at you. It was aimed at someone else.1 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
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Well then my apologies for the wrong quote. Hopefully the guy in the nested quote gets it too.Prof_Bawbag wrote: »I wasn't aiming my comment at you. It was aimed at someone else.
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