Nice feedback here. To the guy that told me to grow up im plenty grown, but there's no point in walking on thin ice when talking to developers anymore they aren't like they used to be. I'm not going to filter myself because it may hurt feelings they need to get the job done. I don't work there and I don't know what goes on but these guys spent the time to learn how to do this stuff so they need to get it in gear and just get it done.

Why spend so much time in school learning how to do something if you're going to half do it once you get out? This is the problem with these generation of workers. Everyone thinks once you get the degree the work is over. No it continues and progresses. Weve tried constructive feedbavk and deconstructive feedback. Neither works honestly because from what i see amd hesr on pts almost all lf the changes players propose go unheard for months.

Look at zaan though. People put up vids saying it's too op and it IMMEDIATELY got nerfed. That's ridiculous because magic Dragon knight and templar needs a rework and well it's three more months before a balance patch hits. Why are mmos so quick to nerf things but take so long to fix things?

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

I see all of these comments about how to fix the game and am shaking my head. Combat was DESTROYED in morrowind because sustain in PvP had just gotten out of hand. Proc sets ruined a lot of things in PvP because of the fact that they were allowed to be taken in alliance zones. This should have never happened . Pv p and PvP should honestly never cross each other unless you can do it correctly.

Since they have proven they can't they literally refuse to balance PvP and PvP separately. You wanna know why? Get out your lol buttons. I forget which dev it was, but he literally said balancing the two separately would be TOO HARD. After hearing that I can see why we have so many lazy fixes (mag dks flame lash getting a cooldown).

Zos needs to just get up and reverse all of this morrowind mess. Bring back sustain so combat is cool again. We used to have every class competing for spots but now it's mag blade or stam setups or gtfo. They just need to finally separate PvP and pve and a lot of the issues will be fixed. You can NEVER balance this game as long as you keep approaching things so lazily with comments such as "it's too hard". That's honestly just ridiculous.

Oh, looky, another "Blame the PVPers for Morrowind sustain nerfs!" post.

As if the PVE trials community wasn't blowing through ZOS' toughest content and calling it easy-peasy lemon-squeezy thanks to high sustain and higher DPS.

ZOS doesn't actually like unlimited sustain in PVP or in PVE. At that point, ZOS was facing having to design new trials content that would be challenging for top-tier players that no one else would be able to touch or they could do a hard reset on the combat system and make everyone have to adjust to lower the DPS across the board. The Morrowind changes largely did that for PVE.

I'm not saying that PVP didn't have its own reasons for getting sustain nerfed. We all know the continuing saga of ZOS playing whack-a-mole with the perma-blocking tanks (which, by the way, ZOS doesn't like perma-blocking tanks in PVE content either). But I am sick and tired of people pretending that the Morrowind sustain nerfs were solely because of PVP and the poor PVEers just got hit with it for no reason.

ZOS nerfed both PVE and PVP for reasons that are obvious if you were paying attention when Morrowind changes happened. Perma-blocking high damage tanks in PVP are annoying. High damage/high sustain trials groups laughing at your hardest content changes the direction of the game development.

I'm not even going to read your comment because if you actually understood what i was saying you would know that I didn't BLAME pvpers. You have to be living under a rock to not realize that PvP got things in pve nerfed and Pve got pvp things nerfed. Quit acting like a child because all this defending stuff is old and tired.

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

I see all of these comments about how to fix the game and am shaking my head. Combat was DESTROYED in morrowind because sustain in PvP had just gotten out of hand. Proc sets ruined a lot of things in PvP because of the fact that they were allowed to be taken in alliance zones. This should have never happened . Pv p and PvP should honestly never cross each other unless you can do it correctly.

Since they have proven they can't they literally refuse to balance PvP and PvP separately. You wanna know why? Get out your lol buttons. I forget which dev it was, but he literally said balancing the two separately would be TOO HARD. After hearing that I can see why we have so many lazy fixes (mag dks flame lash getting a cooldown).

Zos needs to just get up and reverse all of this morrowind mess. Bring back sustain so combat is cool again. We used to have every class competing for spots but now it's mag blade or stam setups or gtfo. They just need to finally separate PvP and pve and a lot of the issues will be fixed. You can NEVER balance this game as long as you keep approaching things so lazily with comments such as "it's too hard". That's honestly just ridiculous.

Oh, looky, another "Blame the PVPers for Morrowind sustain nerfs!" post.

As if the PVE trials community wasn't blowing through ZOS' toughest content and calling it easy-peasy lemon-squeezy thanks to high sustain and higher DPS.

ZOS doesn't actually like unlimited sustain in PVP or in PVE. At that point, ZOS was facing having to design new trials content that would be challenging for top-tier players that no one else would be able to touch or they could do a hard reset on the combat system and make everyone have to adjust to lower the DPS across the board. The Morrowind changes largely did that for PVE.

I'm not saying that PVP didn't have its own reasons for getting sustain nerfed. We all know the continuing saga of ZOS playing whack-a-mole with the perma-blocking tanks (which, by the way, ZOS doesn't like perma-blocking tanks in PVE content either). But I am sick and tired of people pretending that the Morrowind sustain nerfs were solely because of PVP and the poor PVEers just got hit with it for no reason.

ZOS nerfed both PVE and PVP for reasons that are obvious if you were paying attention when Morrowind changes happened. Perma-blocking high damage tanks in PVP are annoying. High damage/high sustain trials groups laughing at your hardest content changes the direction of the game development.

I'm not even going to read your comment because if you actually understood what i was saying you would know that I didn't BLAME pvpers. You have to be living under a rock to not realize that PvP got things in pve nerfed and Pve got pvp things nerfed. Quit acting like a child because all this defending stuff is old and tired.

Then you are missing some of my points as well. That high sustain you want back? It isn't coming back because ZOS nerfed it for PVE-related reasons as well as the PVP-related reasons.

As I stated, its pretty clearly both. If you'd said in your OP what you'd said here, I wouldn't have needed to point out the larger picture.

Sustain and proc set changes were to address power creep in PvE as much as, or more than, to address problems in PvP.

The day pvp is balanced separately is the day i return to cyrodiil.

They can keep skills the same for pve and PvP (in terms of effect/function, but perhaps not power).

But create PvP gear. I like the principle of the GW2 PvP gems and runes used for GW2 BGs. You can freely select your stats and set effects.

Food, potions, drink etc. Would be balanced seperately for PvP or simply not used as PvP would be balanced around the new PvP gear.

For ESO they could use the new Barbie station, where apart from your styling, you can set up your PvP gear from a variety of selections. All gear pieces will scale to the same rarity as your Equipped PvE gear. You should also be able to select enchants for all pieces, that will have the same rarity as whatever enchant you have in your PvE gear. For ESO you would do this piece by piece and not whole sets at the time like GW2 gems/runes.

Balance complete. When they do balance sets, stats and such on PvP gear, no one will have their gear made obsolete.

Nestor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yes but the last part....no
It would require a new system if the intent is for behavior, effects, etc to change depending upon environment.

There would need to be something that triggers in the game that isn’t triggering now. Maybe not a system but a notable change.

Its not an environment, its a zone. Battle Spirit was already mentioned, that is just one way to do this, there are many others. It does not have to change the underlying game. We already have PvP skills that are only useful in PvP, but they run on the same game system we have now.

Now, if someone was standing in freezing water and they get a snare for 60 seconds, that is environmental. But, heck, that can be done in the existing game system. The last festival showed us that.

No if it’s changed then it’s an environment.
Right now it’s zone based but people are asking for a separation of the two.

Meaning i go to Cyrodil (zone) for PvE and you or someone else goes to Cyrodil (zone) for PvP. The environment is what’s changing to cause a trigger not the zone.

Just like dueling in any town (zone) or questing in a town (zone) would be a change of environment. It’s not a different zone.

Mic1007 wrote: »

#BringBackPatch1.5

Reverb wrote: »

Sustain and proc set changes were to address power creep in PvE as much as, or more than, to address problems in PvP.

Really ? Cause I don't recall anyone saying they were sustaining to well and their proc sets were way too reliable in trials buuuuut I do recall all the outrage on 1 shot proc set kills in pvp and unkillable players with sustain. If Zos wanted to counter those topics in PvE all they would have to do is adjust fights to include resource draining mechanics OR actual boss fights that favor mechanics over burst dps. But of course pvp...as usual

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Sustain and proc set changes were to address power creep in PvE as much as, or more than, to address problems in PvP.

Really ? Cause I don't recall anyone saying they were sustaining to well and their proc sets were way too reliable in trials buuuuut I do recall all the outrage on 1 shot proc set kills in pvp and unkillable players with sustain. If Zos wanted to counter those topics in PvE all they would have to do is adjust fights to include resource draining mechanics OR actual boss fights that favor mechanics over burst dps. But of course pvp...as usual

ZOS design hard fights that aren't just adding one-shots and more HP? What madness is this?

Okay, that's a little unfair of me.

Regardless of whether or not PVE players were complaining about sustaining too good in trials, they certainly were complaining that ZOS' hardest content was too easy. Nerfing sustain just happened to solve ZOS' PVP problems and PVE problems at the same time.

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

I forget which dev it was, but he literally said balancing the two separately would be TOO HARD.

Literally I think that splitting abilities for PvE and PvP is just literally stupid.

Games which do that guarantee that I never PvP.

Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »

When it comes down to it. It's completely stupid to affect an ability because it's strong in PvP. PVE players should not have to suffer. There needs to be a system that separates PvP and PVE.

For example when they nerfed Jesus beam that was done because it was hitting players too hard. Not because it was hitting open world or trial adds hard. The separation of PVE and PvP can be so simple. Instead of nerfing the Jesus beam out of existence they could have set it up to whereas when entering a duel or PvP area the NERF takes place. Simple and easy. That's "NOT HARD" zos

That's a very good take on that. I've said that for awhile why not let the nerf only happen in duels battlegrounds and other PvP related functions? Until this happens we will all keep going in a circle. If this continues pve will become so empty because it's way too hard to sustain and too hard to kill things because of constant nerfing to bosses and mechanics. Look at off balance. They increased the immunity the boss gets to being set off balance again reducing damage across the board.

You won't run lightning wall anymore due to this I'm hearing. People are just going back to flame staves. Which is okay but a lot of the sustain was tied to lightning heavies. They made it easier since flame heavies take longer.

This continuous nerf to damage and nerf to abilities and nerf to mechanics in Pve because they're too good in PvP will eventually take the fun out of battle. Yes we will adapt, but who wants to keep adapting to things that are less fun? A game is supposed to be about having fun or working together with others to bring down opponents etc. Compensating for the laziness of developers will only go so far. After awhile people will stop doing it.

When this chapter comes this year they just need to do away with these resource changes and separate pve and PvP finally. Managing resources isn't challenging in PvP even now so stop trying to nerf it into the ground. Instead, make crazy hard mechanics for veteran hard modes that take more than dpsing to get around. Make all classes viable and have to COMPETE for spots. In other words, don't have one class just be the ruling spot for others. Let all range dps have to COMPETE so you have to make a choice of who performs the best on what class and what utility they bring. Let melee dps also compete in the same way.

There are people who only main one or two characters and don't have like 7 like I do, and when you nerf the class into a state where nobody wants to bring then what do you want that person to do? Make a class they don't wanna play because that's how you incision balance being? Look at ffxiv. Having too many of the same class is a BAD thing. The more variety you have over there, the better your damage and buffs. Bring that over here. It makes no sense that we have all range dps being nightblade and all stamina dps hogging the melee spots. Magica dk and templar literally have no place anymore. Please fix this.

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Remember when PvP and PvE was was fun and fast

And now some want to add even more complexity to the code and reduce the response times even more.

Think about the coinseqences of what you ask for.