frozywozy wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

With Update 17 aoe caps will be removed. I wonder what people think about the impact such a change will have on ball groups.

Everything is relative to the amount of players you are fighting.

Let say the ballgroup (12-16) is fighting 5 stam wardens who run Shalk, Dawnbreaker, Steel Tornados, the removal of Aoe caps is a nerf to the ballgroup. On the other end, if the ballgroup is fighting an entire enemy faction, this will be a buff.

What I'm the most excited about is the performance increase latency wise from the removal of so many calculations on the server. This should be promising and a great way forward.

You can expect to be massively disappointed by expecting a latency improvement.

All AoE caps amounted to - calculation wise - was a damage modifier when iterating over a list.

Essentially:

local targetList = GetInRangeTargets(player, range)        -- this is the actual expensive part of an AoE
local count = 0
for p in targetList do
  local damageAmount = CalculateDamageAmount(attack, p) -- Whatever ZOS's damage formula is
  -- determine AoE cap strength.
  if count < 6 then
    damageAmount = damageAmount * 1
  elseif count < 30 then
    damageAmount = damageAmount * 0.75
  else
    damageAmount = damageAmonut * 0.50
  end
  p.ApplyDamage(damageAmount)  -- apply the damage to the current player
  count = count + 1
end

In essence if ZoS coded the damage calculations decently in the first place, AoE caps add such a nominal overhead as to be almost completely irrelevant.

I have no idea why you're saying that the Aoe Caps are not heavy on the server. Brian Wheeler already explained in a ESO Live the weight that Aoe Caps put on the server because it has to do several of check per player cast and take into consideration the range of every single player around and prioritize the closest first and then distribute the damage to each of them. Also, it does not mean that a player is ignored by the AOE caps that the server doesn't query its client. Brian explained it very clearly and it made sense. We are about to see a big improvement, trust me.

The problem is it will still do it for all the side effects, snare, root, stun, etc. I wish they would just get rid of it completely.

A more efficient- versatile slaughter machine, and the people in these groups aren't stuck together and not well aware of when to be together and when to scatter a little.

I'm a little worried healing won't keep up with the added damage, maybe that's the idea, who knows.
Not to mention there is no change to purge or barrier (~x ally targets).

It's going to have virtually zero impact on how ball groups play, as far as I'm concerned. More damage coming in, more damage also going out.

I'm still going to do 3x as much damage to your group of 6 with mine of 18, whether you do more damage to me with your group of 6 is of fairly minimal consequence. I'll adapt and you'll still QQ about how unfair it is.

It will be better for small organized teams to fight zergs, but things will mostly be the same the way it is right now.

Galalin wrote: »

For those of you claiming this is a buff... Mwahahaha!. For those of you who Pv{'ed when Aoe did not exist you know why im laughing. Best and most significant change to PvP since Aoe Caps were implimented. Prepare to get farmed Zergs.

Warden Scrub Out

Sorry, i can't take anyone seriously who thinks the best change to pvp in this game was aoe caps...

You have to be extra level bad to believe that.

The guild I run with actually thinks it's hilarious when some of the guildies get flattened like pancakes while standing on the flags (they never learn their lesson). Especially me. I love standing stealth outside of the ball to watch for bombers. So entertaining. We laugh, compliment and move on. So yea...nothing will change, except maybe more laughs and compliments.

Organised groups will still farm pugs blobs.
Pugs blobs will still complain about organised groups.
Large scale combat will still be complete garbage.
Players who think large scale combat in ESO is good will continue to be wrong.
Server will still lag.

Positive change for smaller groups who got swamped and could only ult 6 people.

What is a ball group ? a small sized group as in opposition to a zerg ?

VaranisArano wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

What is a ball group ? a small sized group as in opposition to a zerg ?

In this case, a ball group is an organized group of players that follows a leader and stays very close together so that their damage and healing stacks, making them hard to pick apart and kill. There have always been organized raids like that, but the most recent iteration where some of the ball groups don't have much damage except for their ultimates and instead run a bunch of healers and earthgore sets while adopting a strategy of running, moving, and healing until their ultimates are up and then turning around for a destro ulti pain train seems particularly annoying. I personally don't mind their tactics but I do mind how much certain of those groups are relying on Earthgore to protect them from everyone else.

Thanks for the explanation

Avaglaor wrote: »

For the current state of -Vivec EU pc- its a buff, zergs are getting bigger day by day.

I would say that things will go the same after a while but at the beginning of the patch ~16man ball groups will get a buff of 25-50% more dmg against the ~60man zergs.

On the other hand I believe that the ball groups will be able to survive that 25-50% more dmg on them (unless they fight against another ball group).

Specially when the guilds join the zerg right?

DTStormfox wrote: »

From my point of view it is a nerf. Most ballgroups benefit from the fact that they are >12 players and do not all receive full damage from aoes.

I run mostly solo or with my guild group of about 6-12 people, and especially when solo I notice the limitations aoe caps create when facing more enemies than the aoe cap allows me to damage.

Aoe caps mostly benefitted the ball groups because they can damage more than 12 players at the same time, because they have more aoe abilities active at the same moment. When running solo against these groups which are larger than the aoe caps, most of the damage the solo player could deal, is nullified by that system.

Ball groups will still be able to outheal a lot of damage and outmanoeuvre zergs, yet they will become more vulnerable to smaller organised groups. So essentially it is both a buff and nerf at the same time.

Too be fair, it really depends on the playstyle of the player on whether its a nerf or a buff.

i.e Im a bombblade, so imo this is a buff. Not a huge one but enough of one for me too be pleased with the change.

There is an argument that "oh well, but if your a solo player you wont kill more than 6 people!" - Simply not true, its all about timing and prep. People make mistakes, they dont stack like they used too which is a fair point but a lot of the time people will do it unintentionally. Ive found the perfect time for bombing too be when a group tries too push a breach together if you land right in the middle of them off the wall with proxy about too pop and fully buffed then you tether you will kill most bad groups. Coordinated ones ive found I can only get them down too half then the healing pops.

When it comes too coordinated groups, I doubt much will change but if i am running my bombblade with my friends and we do it at the same time then perhaps we can do it, it just depends on how much healing and mitigation they actually have.

For pugs or weaker less coordinated groups I honestly think it will be much easier for even pugs to hold them off. Its a nerf too the unprepared and buff too the prepared imo.

If you're not an AoE build then it most likely will feel like things will stay the same or slightly worse.

Will this change anything overall? probably not.


Just a note; I voted its a nerf because a majority of non bomb builds and non-zergs will feel like this hurts them more than it will do anything else and then theres the uncoordinated groups they will find it harder to deal with as people will clamoring to use AoEs more in defence of a keep or too beat back the zerg.

Sanct16 wrote: »

With Update 17 aoe caps will be removed. I wonder what people think about the impact such a change will have on ball groups.

Coming from a player that pvped when there was no AOE cap, i see this as a buff for solo pvp (Looking at VD) and nothing else for zergs. They'll just kill themselves alot faster but soloers still take the same damage...unless something changed within these past 6 months i was gone... i havent been this excited to PvP in a long LOOOOOOOONG time... this DLC im definitely BACK to check it out