Jaguar_SF wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Jaguar_SF wrote: »

Now you're coming at this from a point of 5 siege random players sieging it. Sure then if that's the case it is very easy to defend and get to. It is happening everyday on Cyrodiil, just look at your map.

where do you make that assumption from? iv successfully defended, with a large group, an outpost that had the doors broken in, and watched as the doors were repaired, broken down again, and repaired again while just inside the doors looked like a slaughterhouse with all the corpses piling up.

Stop making assumptions, or making stuff up. You seem to have the solution already as others point out, but somehow refuse to acknowledge it. And it requires no changes by ZOS.

And no, do not make outposts as powerful as keeps. they are not keeps.

You're missing the point. Outposts are actually better than keeps now. Why? I am going to answer you again. Because they're very easy and fast to take when no one is around them specially behind enemy line, and not that hard to defend when you're actually there to defend it, because you can respawn and comeback hint ( The same trait that a level 5 keep offers ).

If you can't get it flagged, they deserve the respawns and to keep the outpost. If you have an outpost you don't defend and somebody else takes it for the respawn point, they deserve the respawns and an outpost they are willing to defend.

I get that it's irritating, but timers would be worse.

not sure what makes that any different from a keep, enemy folk surrounding it, no siege, free res

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Jaguar_SF wrote: »

Hello,

So since ZoS changed how the outpost system works there has been a lot of problems with it. People can spawn for unlimited times and comeback which can be annoying, unless they of course suck really bad to the point that you can kill them 50 times in a row, and somehow you can manage to flag it at the same time.
...

Has this not always been the case?
May be misremembering how it was previously, and was not here for the change
but thought that previously we could teleport to or revive at an outpost unless it was under attack
but we could not teleport away from them, and had to go to a keep after a successful defense

That is correct, the issue has always been there. On the other hand, the change that allowed defenders to also port out exacerbated it, because it removed cost (i.e. time lost by riding from outpost) of both scouting and committing forces for defense; defenders are now more likely to receive early warning and can, after wiping out attackers, quickly return to defend something else. On top of it, they have unlimited respawns, which ironically work the best for defenders if attackers try to interrupt them as fast possible and therefore ram; defenders will respawn less than two seconds from where fighting takes place.
...

And why is this approach to objectives an issue precisely?

At best, free, unlimited respawns coupled with fast travel promote ping-pong between two unlint keeps on one hand, and PvDoor on the other hand, because that is obviously the most effective method to avoid ping-pong scenario from developing.
At worst, it amplifies and cements faction imbalance.

Samadhi wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

...
There really needs to be cooldown or exponentially more severe pentalty for respawning over and over. Or both, and both in keeps and outpost.

What would you propose to be the skill threshold to engage in PvP with minimum downtime?

Ironically, not engaging enemies near their respawn point is on of the easiest and most effective ways to avoid needless, stupid deaths.
But to be clear: people dying/respawning over and over are mostly not that stupid, they just make use of the fact that whenever they have respawn point right behing them, combat can be reduced to battle of attrition enemies can not win. You can add that to list of why it is an issue.

You're going to have to spell things out a bit more clearly for me, sorry
is the issue that Keeps and Outposts never change hands; that Keeps flip too slowly; that Outposts flip too quickly;
or that a small group faces difficulty taking objectives from a larger group

or is it something else entirely, and am simply not comprehending the complaints at all?

Jaguar_SF wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Jaguar_SF wrote: »

Now you're coming at this from a point of 5 siege random players sieging it. Sure then if that's the case it is very easy to defend and get to. It is happening everyday on Cyrodiil, just look at your map.

where do you make that assumption from? iv successfully defended, with a large group, an outpost that had the doors broken in, and watched as the doors were repaired, broken down again, and repaired again while just inside the doors looked like a slaughterhouse with all the corpses piling up.

Stop making assumptions, or making stuff up. You seem to have the solution already as others point out, but somehow refuse to acknowledge it. And it requires no changes by ZOS.

And no, do not make outposts as powerful as keeps. they are not keeps.

You're missing the point. Outposts are actually better than keeps now. Why? I am going to answer you again. Because they're very easy and fast to take when no one is around them specially behind enemy line, and not that hard to defend when you're actually there to defend it, because you can respawn and comeback hint ( The same trait that a level 5 keep offers ).

I do not quite understand your hint here. Respawning and coming back isn't exclusive to level 5 keeps. It is available to any keep or outpost that is not sieged below 50%, as it should be. If you want to prevent re-spawns, flag the keep.

I like outpost fights...

working as intended...

Sharee wrote: »

Jaguar_SF wrote: »

I think you misunderstood the point I am trying to deliver. We all know sieging an outpost will stop players from respawning. I am trying to address the meta that people use, which is the fast and easy capture for outposts compared to keeps. And the powerful unlimited spawns behind it.

Okay i just don't get it. How can you say "sieging outpost stops spawn" and "unlimited spawns" in the same paragraph. If you siege, they are not unlimited. If you don't siege, then it's your own fault they are unlimited.

So true. End of story.

Outpost Pro:

Jaguar_SF wrote: »

You're missing the point. Outposts are actually better than keeps now. Why? I am going to answer you again. Because they're very easy and fast to take when no one is around them specially behind enemy line, and not that hard to defend when you're actually there to defend it, because you can respawn and comeback hint ( The same trait that a level 5 keep offers ).

Outpost Con: Outposts are actually worse than keeps now. Why? Because they very easy and fast for the enemy to take so they are a terrible way to secure your transit network. Its harder to defend there than a keep because there are no warning signs like resources flipping and no outer wall. So as soon as the enemy gets the door or the postern walls down to 50%, you're flagged and no more defenders can arrive/rez without riding, and the outpost is already half-way to being taken unlike a keep where the enemy still has to deal with the inner door/wall. Sure, before 50% you can respawn and come back, just like every other keep in the entire map of Cryodiil, but outposts are much, much quicker to capture than keeps with less guardian NPCs and no outer wall, so if your defenders weren't there, you are most likely SOL. If your defenders are there, you don't have the outer wall and much less time to set up a defense and drive off the enemy.

In other words, those very same factors that make outposts so good are the exact same factors that work against them. When EP has Bleakers, we use it as a constant respawn for attacks on Aleswell. When DC captures Bleakers, they use it for respawning attacks on Chalman. Both EP and DC have the ability to roll up to Bleakers, throw down a ton of siege and capture the outpost considerably easier that either Aleswell or Chalman, against similar number of defenders. An empty outpost is an easy capture for a group. A heavily defended outpost is considerably easier to capture than a heavily defended keep.

Cyrodiil is designed so that ALL factions can use ALL of the map in the same way. Outposts used as respawning points is outpost working as intended. If you don't like it, capture the outpost and use it for your own respawning point. Keeps, on the other hand, have the downside of being harder to capture in order to be used as a spawn point but also have the upside of being harder for the enemy to capture in order to be used as a spawn point. You can't complain about how easy something is for the enemy and not consider that its just as easy for you to do as well, or that something is hard for you and ignore that its also hard for the enemy.

Working as intended.

Defenders of an outpost don't have to kill the attackers, they just have to keep the outpost above 50%.

If you arent tagging and capturing an objective or defending an objective your faction owns then you are just screwing around wasting time.

The only thing that needs to be addressed is your lack of strategy.