Scamming other players allowed ?

rustic_potato · January 2018

Well technically it is not against TOS if some stupid guild leader allows permissions. If he is using some sort of script to scam during trades then that is a punishable offense.

I started playing this game with a friend of mine who is a famous scammer in EVE online. He tried to do the same here and just got bored that people are too gullible in this game that it no longer was challenging to do it. He got banned once but when he proved to ZOS that he was doing it legitimately his ban was removed.

One of his most hilarious ones was when he tricked someone into giving him about 20 dreugh wax by saying that his gold was on another character.

If you are stupid enough to trust people online with your valuables you don't deserve to have it. Lol.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2018

wolf486 wrote: »

"if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault"

He's not wrong, and it's better to learn that in a video game

rustic_potato wrote: »

Well technically it is not against TOS if some stupid guild leader allows permissions. If he is using some sort of script to scam during trades then that is a punishable offense.

I started playing this game with a friend of mine who is a famous scammer in EVE online. He tried to do the same here and just got bored that people are too gullible in this game that it no longer was challenging to do it. He got banned once but when he proved to ZOS that he was doing it legitimately his ban was removed.

One of his most hilarious ones was when he tricked someone into giving him about 20 dreugh wax by saying that his gold was on another character.

If you are stupid enough to trust people online with your valuables you don't deserve to have it. Lol.

With "friends" like you...

You make it sound as if scamming was equal to winning a contest of intelligence. That is a very immature vision of society and life. I guess you'll learn ...

Tasear · January 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

How can you get scammed when guild leaders can control who has permissions to the guild bank and etc

Is wrong to believe most people are good and decent people?

eso_lags · January 2018

ForsakenSin wrote: »

OK boys and girls this is something that happend on the weekend and i would like to know your thoughts ...

So im on xbox NA and i was in craglorn when i heard people chatting on zone chat.. and something caught my attention..

There was this guy standing there lets call him B and was asking to join the guild and some random person recognised him and said he was blacklisted from guild because he stole the items and scammed them ... the person B was laughing and said yhea im blacklisted from many guilds and then he was saying how he scammed people and has over 12 million in gold and if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault ..according to him people who play this game and have money should know they will get scammed so its their fault and the new people that joined well he is teaching them a lesson its all other peoples fault if he scammed them.

And he was also teaching this other person A how to scamm others so what he dose is places a items on zone chat for a cheapest price as a bait and when he is trading is he puts items and then takes it right away . and takes other peoples money and just runs away ..

When he was asked .. wouldnt he be banned from doing that he said he was banned by ZoS for few days but they are stupid, what he done he wrote them a long email saying he was role playing as scammer as a bad guy and they unbaned his account and if he gets banned again he will just do it again.

Anyway he keeps on doing this the whole time on the zone chat and he actually did trade with another person and stole their items, when people told him they will report him he didn't care just said he will not be banned as he is role playing and when people said they will never trade with him again all of them will inform their guilds he just laughed and said i will change my gamer tag so you will have no idea who i am.

This was going on for about 30 min and as mentioned he was training other people in how to scamm others openly.

I don't know if he was trolling but then why would he saying all of those things not caring... he was max cp and showing stacks of Tempering Alloy , Druegh Wax ect saying he scammed all of these items and was proud of it.

What are your thoughts ?

My opinion .. there should be investigation and if this is true ZoS should ban his account ASAP, i just fell sorry for all of those people je scammed

Lmao, i remember this conversation.. I spoke with him for a while that morning and he scammed someone literally while they were talking to us about how he is a scammer. Stupidity is the problem here and it will never cease to amaze.

I started talking to him while i was trying to test a build, because he was the only pvp spec on that i could find anywhere at 5am, and we had a few duels..Then he tried to scam me for some rosin (before i knew he was a scammer). It didnt work. The thing is, you really do need to let the person paying the gold for the item submit first, or give it a good 20+ seconds before you submit.

But to answer your question, he claimed he was banned and then un-banned for role playing as a scammer (like you said). So if this is true then the answer is yes they ban people for scamming (since he got banned for 40 days or whatever, but was then un-banned after a day)... Buuttt if what he says is true about the role playing thing, then this is a loop hole / pure stupidity on zos' part (again if its true).. I would defiantly like to know from zos or something from the TOS about this though..

rustic_potato · January 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

wolf486 wrote: »

"if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault"

He's not wrong, and it's better to learn that in a video game

rustic_potato wrote: »

Well technically it is not against TOS if some stupid guild leader allows permissions. If he is using some sort of script to scam during trades then that is a punishable offense.

I started playing this game with a friend of mine who is a famous scammer in EVE online. He tried to do the same here and just got bored that people are too gullible in this game that it no longer was challenging to do it. He got banned once but when he proved to ZOS that he was doing it legitimately his ban was removed.

One of his most hilarious ones was when he tricked someone into giving him about 20 dreugh wax by saying that his gold was on another character.

If you are stupid enough to trust people online with your valuables you don't deserve to have it. Lol.

With "friends" like you...

You make it sound as if scamming was equal to winning a contest of intelligence. That is a very immature vision of society and life. I guess you'll learn ...

Well we both are veteran EVE players. It requires considerable intelligence, charisma and effort to pull a major scam in that game.

I personally did a lot of market manipulation early in this game and made a fortune but lost interest as there was no real competition and no real benefit to it either. This game has no incentive to make money. After the first several hundred million everything got boring pretty quickly that includes scamming.

Personally I do believe that as long as it is withing the legal limits it doesn't matter if it is morally acceptable. Morality, honor and such are just social constructs made by people who are too scared to break the mold and decide for themselves.

Shezzarrine · January 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

wolf486 wrote: »

"if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault"

He's not wrong, and it's better to learn that in a video game

rustic_potato wrote: »

Well technically it is not against TOS if some stupid guild leader allows permissions. If he is using some sort of script to scam during trades then that is a punishable offense.

I started playing this game with a friend of mine who is a famous scammer in EVE online. He tried to do the same here and just got bored that people are too gullible in this game that it no longer was challenging to do it. He got banned once but when he proved to ZOS that he was doing it legitimately his ban was removed.

One of his most hilarious ones was when he tricked someone into giving him about 20 dreugh wax by saying that his gold was on another character.

If you are stupid enough to trust people online with your valuables you don't deserve to have it. Lol.

With "friends" like you...

You make it sound as if scamming was equal to winning a contest of intelligence. That is a very immature vision of society and life. I guess you'll learn ...

Well we both are veteran EVE players. It requires considerable intelligence, charisma and effort to pull a major scam in that game.

I personally did a lot of market manipulation early in this game and made a fortune but lost interest as there was no real competition and no real benefit to it either. This game has no incentive to make money. After the first several hundred million everything got boring pretty quickly that includes scamming.

Personally I do believe that as long as it is withing the legal limits it doesn't matter if it is morally acceptable. Morality, honor and such are just social constructs made by people who are too scared to break the mold and decide for themselves.

Yes, they are social constructs but they were developed for evolutionary reasons. Humans are a social creature and morality allows for humanity to live in groups and for the groups to not crumble. There is something called compassion and it is an empty life without it.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

Well we both are veteran EVE players. It requires considerable intelligence, charisma and effort to pull a major scam in that game.

I hope you'll find more sensible areas in life to prove your "intelligence", "charisma" or whatever you feel like demonstrating to yourself and others to prove your personal value, because that one is very low. I mean... charisma in an MMO ? Really ? Is that your milestone ? What a pity.
Don't get me wrong, I love video games - especially ESO. For plenty of reasons. But intelligence is certainly not one of the qualities it allows to develop in anyone. I highly doubt EVE online is anyhow different, no matter what you say or think. It's kinda like pretending that someone can cook well because he's been working at McDonald's in the kitchen.

rustic_potato wrote: »

Personally I do believe that as long as it is withing the legal limits it doesn't matter if it is morally acceptable. Morality, honor and such are just social constructs made by people who are too scared to break the mold and decide for themselves.

That, however, is a purely intellectual construct, self-tailored to excuse yourself. Bad news, it's nothing new. Scammers, bandits and criminals have been using the argument of "personal freedom" forever, without ever convincing anyone but themselves. Just wait until someone else's "personal freedom" hits you hard - within or without legal limits - and think about it again. Maybe.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2018

Don't get baited into all this morality trolling . We know many people that said they have no morals online until they were hacked , exposed and everything embarrassing about them posted publicly . Then all of a sudden that's morally wrong to do to them over video games . It's all a front until it comes back to bite scammers in the butt later .

rustic_potato · January 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

Well we both are veteran EVE players. It requires considerable intelligence, charisma and effort to pull a major scam in that game.

I hope you'll find more sensible areas in life to prove your "intelligence", "charisma" or whatever you feel like demonstrating to yourself and others to prove your personal value, because that one is very low. I mean... charisma in an MMO ? Really ? Is that your milestone ? What a pity.
Don't get me wrong, I love video games - especially ESO. For plenty of reasons. But intelligence is certainly not one of the qualities it allows to develop in anyone. I highly doubt EVE online is anyhow different, no matter what you say or think. It's kinda like pretending that someone can cook well because he's been working at McDonald's in the kitchen.

rustic_potato wrote: »

Personally I do believe that as long as it is withing the legal limits it doesn't matter if it is morally acceptable. Morality, honor and such are just social constructs made by people who are too scared to break the mold and decide for themselves.

That, however, is a purely intellectual construct, self-tailored to excuse yourself. Bad news, it's nothing new. Scammers, bandits and criminals have been using the argument of "personal freedom" forever, without ever convincing anyone but themselves. Just wait until someone else's "personal freedom" hits you hard - within or without legal limits - and think about it again. Maybe.

Wow hostile. Firstly I have never scammed anyone. I'm not against it just is not my cup of tea. Secondly before you judge me maybe do some basic research. EVE is a cutthroat game where social rules don't exist. It is a game that encourages "survival of the fittest mindset". I enjoy both the games.

If you truly think charisma doesn't exist in MMOs I'm gonna assume you have never done anything serious and group oriented in an MMO. I wonder why you are so defensive about something that doesn't even pertain to you. I do find it hilarious that such a narrow minded person is taking pity on me. Meh.

Again as I said before as long as it is within the legal limits i believe it is acceptable. If I am stupid enough to fall for a scam so be it. Ill just know to not do it again.

idk · January 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

How can you get scammed when guild leaders can control who has permissions to the guild bank and etc

This, sort of. ESO has extremely poor guild management tools. Among the worst of a major MMORPG. Recently Zos did add a little control of bank access but it was designed poorly.

Guilds should be able to divide their bank into different spaces, each with it's own level of control. Everyone should be able to see all the inventory but only draw from sections leadership permits. Lowest rank would have no withdraw privileges, the next rank could draw from the basic crafting matt access and so on.

However, Zos continues with such rudimentary designs in this area.

As for player to player transactions, it is simple. Slow down. Inspect what they put forward. When placing your money, or item your trading them slow down again before committing to the trade and only press the button once. If they withdraw their offer you know it is a scam. If they change it after you committed then the trade will not go through unless you commit again. At least that is how it worked last time I traded directly with a person.

Real simple yet some act as though there are no loser scammers out there.

ForsakenSin · January 2018

itzTJ wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

OK boys and girls this is something that happend on the weekend and i would like to know your thoughts ...

So im on xbox NA and i was in craglorn when i heard people chatting on zone chat.. and something caught my attention..

There was this guy standing there lets call him B and was asking to join the guild and some random person recognised him and said he was blacklisted from guild because he stole the items and scammed them ... the person B was laughing and said yhea im blacklisted from many guilds and then he was saying how he scammed people and has over 12 million in gold and if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault ..according to him people who play this game and have money should know they will get scammed so its their fault and the new people that joined well he is teaching them a lesson its all other peoples fault if he scammed them.

And he was also teaching this other person A how to scamm others so what he dose is places a items on zone chat for a cheapest price as a bait and when he is trading is he puts items and then takes it right away . and takes other peoples money and just runs away ..

When he was asked .. wouldnt he be banned from doing that he said he was banned by ZoS for few days but they are stupid, what he done he wrote them a long email saying he was role playing as scammer as a bad guy and they unbaned his account and if he gets banned again he will just do it again.

Anyway he keeps on doing this the whole time on the zone chat and he actually did trade with another person and stole their items, when people told him they will report him he didn't care just said he will not be banned as he is role playing and when people said they will never trade with him again all of them will inform their guilds he just laughed and said i will change my gamer tag so you will have no idea who i am.

This was going on for about 30 min and as mentioned he was training other people in how to scamm others openly.

I don't know if he was trolling but then why would he saying all of those things not caring... he was max cp and showing stacks of Tempering Alloy , Druegh Wax ect saying he scammed all of these items and was proud of it.

What are your thoughts ?

My opinion .. there should be investigation and if this is true ZoS should ban his account ASAP, i just fell sorry for all of those people je scammed

Lmao, i remember this conversation.. I spoke with him for a while that morning and he scammed someone literally while they were talking to us about how he is a scammer. Stupidity is the problem here and it will never cease to amaze.

I started talking to him while i was trying to test a build, because he was the only pvp spec on that i could find anywhere at 5am, and we had a few duels..Then he tried to scam me for some rosin (before i knew he was a scammer). It didnt work. The thing is, you really do need to let the person paying the gold for the item submit first, or give it a good 20+ seconds before you submit.

But to answer your question, he claimed he was banned and then un-banned for role playing as a scammer (like you said). So if this is true then the answer is yes they ban people for scamming (since he got banned for 40 days or whatever, but was then un-banned after a day)... Buuttt if what he says is true about the role playing thing, then this is a loop hole / pure stupidity on zos' part (again if its true).. I would defiantly like to know from zos or something from the TOS about this though..

Yep that is the guy , and after he said he is thinking of selling his gamertag how he had offer for $500 and then he said he might scamm them as well out of $500 ..sell them the gamer tag and keep it.

And your right if that is true regarding the loop hole it should be stop.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

Wow hostile.

Yup.
Hostile behaviours call for hostile reactions.
Are you going now to pretend or argue that scamming is not a hostile behaviour ?

rustic_potato wrote: »

Wow hostile. Firstly I have never scammed anyone.

You condone it. You admire it. It's the same. Whether you actually do it or not is irrelevant.

rustic_potato wrote: »

I wonder why you are so defensive about something that doesn't even pertain to you.

We live in the same society - maybe in the same country, maybe not -, we play in the same game community - maybe on the same server, maybe not. So yes, I'm concerned. Moral standards are everyone's business - not only the law and the makers of the law.
Besides, I'm not being defensive. I'm simply clearly judging you (or better said, the opinions you expressed and the behaviours you condone) extremely negatively. Why should I refrain from saying it ? I think I'm remaining very polite.

kargen27 · January 2018

People have been doing this a long time as others have pointed out. That is why the trade window needs another layer in it. First both players enter the items they wish to trade and then lock them in so they can not be removed. Then if both players are happy with what is being offered they accept. If one does not accept the trade is off and both get their goods back. As is it is to easy to time removal just right so that the other person doesn't get what they think they are getting.

phileunderx2 · January 2018

there are lots of scammers out there. many offer awesome deals for highly sought after items in zone chat. happened upon a video on youtube that a scammer made. this person was selling atherial dust in zone chat but when he attached the item in the mail it was just flour.
he scammed many people probably made over 100k in about an hour.

MakoFore · January 2018

deletd

jssriot · January 2018

To a certain degree, ZOS lets the players police themselves because really what perms guilds give to their members is, and should, that guild's internal issue.

That said, I have more gold that that dude claims to have and I haven't scammed anyone or made enemies/been blacklisted to get that much gold.I mean, there's people in the game who don't like me, but it's not over gold, lol. This fool seems to be doing it wrong, imo. Some people just want to make life hell for themselves.

wolf486 wrote: »

"if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault"

He's not wrong, and it's better to learn that in a video game

No, he is wrong, and quite so. First, he is 100% accountable for his own actions and is culpable for the harm those actions do, since he is admitting he knows he is doing harm. This is just a lazy, cowardly evasion of personal accountability. I know that's muy popular, but don't even try to defend that BS.

Second, human beings by nature and by evolution are interdependent, and it is not in anyone's best interest to abuse the social ties that we rely on. He's making life hell for himself. You think someone like that has friends? No one wants to know people like that, except other people like him, and that's just for the chance to screw them over too. This is no way to live, and it's no way to treat others. We should be looking out for each other, since we depend on one another. Anyone who tries to rationalize that we are not accountable to one another is the fool and should be the one shamed and ostracized.

SydneyGrey · January 2018

ForsakenSin wrote: »

person B was laughing and said yhea im blacklisted from many guilds and then he was saying how he scammed people and has over 12 million in gold and if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault ..according to him people who play this game and have money should know they will get scammed so its their fault and the new people that joined well he is teaching them a lesson its all other peoples fault if he scammed them.

I hope he gets reported and gets a perma-ban.
People like that always use that excuse ("well if he wasn't stooopid, he wouldn't get scammed") just as an excuse to do something they wanted to do anyway. They just justify it to themselves by saying "they were stupid so deserved it." It's like if a person steals a car in real life, and convinces themselves that the victim "deserved it" because they left it parked out on the street.

Minyassa · January 2018

I too hope that he gets reported, caught, and perma-banned. I also hope that his lover leaves him and takes his dog, that he develops a permanent rash on the insides of his eyelids, that he gets ticketed every time he parks in public, and that ticks and mosquitos develop a burning passion for him above all others in his area.

Thieves just can't suffer enough to satisfy my hatred.

rustic_potato · January 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

Wow hostile.

Yup.
Hostile behaviours call for hostile reactions.
Are you going now to pretend or argue that scamming is not a hostile behaviour ?

rustic_potato wrote: »

Wow hostile. Firstly I have never scammed anyone.

You condone it. You admire it. It's the same. Whether you actually do it or not is irrelevant.

rustic_potato wrote: »

I wonder why you are so defensive about something that doesn't even pertain to you.

We live in the same society - maybe in the same country, maybe not -, we play in the same game community - maybe on the same server, maybe not. So yes, I'm concerned. Moral standards are everyone's business - not only the law and the makers of the law.
Besides, I'm not being defensive. I'm simply clearly judging you (or better said, the opinions you expressed and the behaviours you condone) extremely negatively. Why should I refrain from saying it ? I think I'm remaining very polite.

I really do find your train of thought interesting. Moral standards are not equivalent to the law of the land and yet you want it to be enforced everywhere. As someone practicing law that is a scary prospective when people think that they are above the law.

Ackwalan · January 2018

Some people think they are so clever when the do this to others. Yet then they post all the evidence themselves, to get a permanent ban.

[snip]

[Edited for naming and shaming]

RexyCat · January 2018

LordSemaj wrote: »

Best scam I've seen is the people who use dolmen grinds to level their character, link a Spriggans Ring in chat for sale that is properly CP 160, then trade you a CP 100 or something ring that they found while leveling.

That isn't necessary a scam. Could be a new player that picked wrong ring to show or while doing transfer to buyer. It becommes a scam when player is made aware about mistake and still doesn't try to make it right.

FakeFox · January 2018

As long as it does not happen through bugs or cheating I don't mind it. If you leave your guildbank open to people who are not trustworthy it's entirely your fault.

FakeFox · January 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

XD victim blaming in a video game? It's like saying just because you left your credit card on a table you are inviting someone to take it...

This example would be a illegal action, while taking something you have been given permission to take isn't. The comparison should be: If you give someone your credit card and tell them "take whatever you want."

Mannix1958 · January 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

Personally I do believe that as long as it is withing the legal limits it doesn't matter if it is morally acceptable. Morality, honor and such are just social constructs made by people who are too scared to break the mold and decide for themselves.

So you admit that you and the others are sociopaths...

PriorityBalle · January 2018

I'm pretty sure it states in the ToS agreement that this is not allowed, and if more people reported him with a thorough explaination on the events that transpired he would be permabanned. ( not your specific incident but all his scams )
I'm hopeful that ZoS would not unban someone with lets say more than 10 scam cases regardless if he was claiming to be a roleplayer.

But holy *** he sounds like a *** from your account.

RexyCat · January 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

wolf486 wrote: »

"if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault"

He's not wrong, and it's better to learn that in a video game

rustic_potato wrote: »

Well technically it is not against TOS if some stupid guild leader allows permissions. If he is using some sort of script to scam during trades then that is a punishable offense.

I started playing this game with a friend of mine who is a famous scammer in EVE online. He tried to do the same here and just got bored that people are too gullible in this game that it no longer was challenging to do it. He got banned once but when he proved to ZOS that he was doing it legitimately his ban was removed.

One of his most hilarious ones was when he tricked someone into giving him about 20 dreugh wax by saying that his gold was on another character.

If you are stupid enough to trust people online with your valuables you don't deserve to have it. Lol.

With "friends" like you...

You make it sound as if scamming was equal to winning a contest of intelligence. That is a very immature vision of society and life. I guess you'll learn ...

I guess the only way those scammers learn would be when they are being scammed by some more "intelligient" them themselves. ;-)

______
"Trust" is actually something very essential both in game and in real world. Without trust things will just get very comlicated (advanced sytem to replace "trust" ends up in creating a need for even more system to replace the first lost trust when you start to distrust people and it will also continue into systems replacing or at least secure trust).

In MMO:s there is alway's changes going on (patches/DLC etc) which make it impossible to keep up for certain how things are supposed to work or should work. People thinking that other poeple will not report scammer or that it will not lead to any action from Zeni's side show how this kind of distrust is being a self fullfilling or in worse case will become true even if it wasn't from start. How can Zeni do any action against scammers when noone report scammers?

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

I really do find your train of thought interesting. Moral standards are not equivalent to the law of the land and yet you want it to be enforced everywhere. As someone practicing law that is a scary prospective when people think that they are above the law.

As someone practicing law, you should be well aware that the law is like a piece of software : always behind in terms of users' needs, and full of vulnerabilities and loopholes for abuse, always behind in getting fixed and patched. Moral standards are above that, safeguarding social consistency to let us live together, more or less in peace, since, as someone else explained, we highly depend on each other. They may be slow at evolving in some aspects, but that's the price to pay for some sort of stability.

Besides, I as a person don't think that I am above the law. I don't have any possibility to punish you, ban you, or put you in jail or whatever, just because you condone immoral, scammy behaviours. But I have every right to tell you that I disapprove of your attitude, every right to not want to be your friend, and every right to think you're a bad, harmful person (again, within the limit of the topic at hand). You may or may not care - obviously you do, at least a little. We all need love and approval, after all.

Finally, I think your reasoning that immoral things are ok because of "personal freeedom" and "social constructs", but illegal things are not ok (because of... what ?) rather illogical. Laws are social agreements too, at least in democratic countries. Imperfect and far behind, they're only a reflection of the moral standards of any given society.

Huyen · January 2018

There are 2 types of person on this world: the stupid ones, and the ones that are just smart enough to take advantage of the first kind. Enough said.

DieAlteHexe · January 2018

Huyen wrote: »

There are 2 types of person on this world: the stupid ones, and the ones that are just smart enough to take advantage of the first kind. Enough said.

"Enough said" for you maybe, however this statement is pure cynicism and that divide is not true. There are many folk, probably even the majority who fit neither "definition".

Maybe your "world-view" lenses need cleaning.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2018

Huyen wrote: »

There are 2 types of person on this world: the stupid ones, and the ones that are just smart enough to take advantage of the first kind. Enough said.

Everyone meets their master some day. Remember your own quote when you do.