Scamming other players allowed ?

ForsakenSin · January 2018

OK boys and girls this is something that happend on the weekend and i would like to know your thoughts ...

So im on xbox NA and i was in craglorn when i heard people chatting on zone chat.. and something caught my attention..

There was this guy standing there lets call him B and was asking to join the guild and some random person recognised him and said he was blacklisted from guild because he stole the items and scammed them ... the person B was laughing and said yhea im blacklisted from many guilds and then he was saying how he scammed people and has over 12 million in gold and if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault ..according to him people who play this game and have money should know they will get scammed so its their fault and the new people that joined well he is teaching them a lesson its all other peoples fault if he scammed them.

And he was also teaching this other person A how to scamm others so what he dose is places a items on zone chat for a cheapest price as a bait and when he is trading is he puts items and then takes it right away . and takes other peoples money and just runs away ..

When he was asked .. wouldnt he be banned from doing that he said he was banned by ZoS for few days but they are stupid, what he done he wrote them a long email saying he was role playing as scammer as a bad guy and they unbaned his account and if he gets banned again he will just do it again.

Anyway he keeps on doing this the whole time on the zone chat and he actually did trade with another person and stole their items, when people told him they will report him he didn't care just said he will not be banned as he is role playing and when people said they will never trade with him again all of them will inform their guilds he just laughed and said i will change my gamer tag so you will have no idea who i am.

This was going on for about 30 min and as mentioned he was training other people in how to scamm others openly.

I don't know if he was trolling but then why would he saying all of those things not caring... he was max cp and showing stacks of Tempering Alloy , Druegh Wax ect saying he scammed all of these items and was proud of it.

What are your thoughts ?

My opinion .. there should be investigation and if this is true ZoS should ban his account ASAP, i just fell sorry for all of those people je scammed

JobooAGS · January 2018

How can you get scammed when guild leaders can control who has permissions to the guild bank and etc

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · January 2018

ofc it is allowed, it is your own fault for trusting fishy people, its like saying IRL no1 will try to scam you cuz they have morals...well guess what, they don't and same apply here...so be careful who u send ur stuff to and take some guarantees...also look for veterans mostly they aren't scammers.
also nobody can scam you the way u described it with face to face trading...the panel disables itself if 1 player pressed the ready button and the other one removes an item or something from the panel, if the other guy pressed ready again in a rush without looking then it is his own fault, if it is a large amount of people doing the same it is their fault.

Chaos2088 · January 2018

There is a internal report feature in the game, if the dude gets a lot of them ZoS will review.

Reverb · January 2018

Caveat Emptor. Grifting in the trade window has been possible, and reported, since release. Some people are just quick with their fingers, others reportedly use scripts. For high value exchanges, do COD or guild store listings only. Don't do business with people who insist on face to face trading, especially if the price seems too good to be true.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2018

Morally, it is NOT allowed and the scammer is at fault.

Legally, there are no laws about it. Anything that's not forbidden is "allowed", I guess. Which doesn't make it "right". Closest we have to the law in ESO are the ToS. Scamming is against the ToS, dos that make it illegal or not allowed ?

Practically... ZOS will not intervene in those matters for lack of means, so you'd better watch your own back. Which does not make you guilty of being scammed. It's just that you're the only one who can protect yourself.

Let's compare that with a bicycle. Of course it is not allowed, by either law or morals, to steal someone else's bicycle. But in practice, the police will never go out and look for any stolen bicycle, because they have more important things to do.

Now if you leave your bicycle in the street with no padlock, are you guilty if it gets stolen ? No. But you've been a little bit negligent in taking care of your own things.

I see it the same way with ESO scams. I'd like to recall though that the vast majority of the community is made of nice people who don't think of harming anyone - just the opposite. Unfortunately, there are a few black sheep everywhere.

pauli133 · January 2018

See something off? Report it.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2018

Write a report and add what he says in zone chat to the ticket . I guarantee a GM will read that an get personal lol .

AngelFires333 · January 2018

People like that violate The positive aspects of what it is to be human.
honor, kindness, compassion etc.
They leave nothing but hate and anger in their wake.
They're nothing more than demonic *** demons and should have their soul eaten and *** out into a pit of vipers!

Scum.

ForsakenSin · January 2018

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Write a report and add what he says in zone chat to the ticket . I guarantee a GM will read that an get personal lol .

yhea im sure many people did when they heard him and i will as well however i was astound when he said he was un banned by telling ZoS he was role playing as scammer and if he gets banned he will just say the same thing.

Now of course we don't know if that is true or not ..but if it is.. then that is worrying

Rohamad_Ali · January 2018

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Write a report and add what he says in zone chat to the ticket . I guarantee a GM will read that an get personal lol .

yhea im sure many people did when they heard him and i will as well however i was astound when he said he was un banned by telling ZoS he was role playing as scammer and if he gets banned he will just say the same thing.

Now of course we don't know if that is true or not ..but if it is.. then that is worrying

It is absolutely 100% pure horse pucky and he is playing for limited time . ZoS will perma ban this behavior eventually but they give a warning . Don't let anyone tell you different .

ForsakenSin · January 2018

@Rohamad_Ali Thank you for your insight that is good to know , people like that should be perma banned

VaranisArano · January 2018

I wouldn't take his word for why he got banned/how he got unbanned. That's sort of common sense. Why should I trust a known scammer to tell the truth about disciplinary action?

But not getting scammed in this game also relies on common sense over in-game safeguards. Is that in-person trade too good to be true? It probably is and you'd better be very careful with that trade window. Your guild bank got robbed by an officer? Whelp, guess you trusted the wrong person.

People ask about monthly for ZOS to improve protections, particularly on guild bank withdrawals, but nothing really gets done about it. I suspect that ZOS has no real desire to assume liability for your/the guild's stuff and like making the security of your guild bank/your trades reliant on you and your common sense. That way, mistakes are your responsibility, not theirs.

Remember, what's convenient for ZOS will always win out over what's convenient for the players.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2018

ForsakenSin wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali Thank you for your insight that is good to know , people like that should be perma banned

My pleasure . Anyone thinking they are immune from bait and switch scam should research past RP arguments that still resulted in Perma ban . RP does not give immunity from community rules and fair play as the PVP RP'ers learned last year . No one is immune from TOS .

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · January 2018

@Rohamad_Ali I know over 20 people who can contradict you to that...even I reported them constantly and guess what? they keep doing what they are doing...sry but I don't believe you, just like irl...the law is respected only if it makes the one who enforce it loose money...nobody will start chasing a guy who is getting away with a few alloys just cuz "some people made a habit about fast button spamming"

Rohamad_Ali · January 2018

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali I know over 20 people who can contradict you to that...even I reported them constantly and guess what? they keep doing what they are doing...sry but I don't believe you, just like irl...the law is respected only if it makes the one who enforce it loose money...nobody will start chasing a guy who is getting away with a few alloys just cuz "some people made a habit about fast button spamming"

I don't care if you believe me , I read whinny I got banned threads all year long since launch . I know plenty who have been banned for scamming . Maybe they buy new accounts but if you don't believe it can happen try to scam me please . I'll be happy to test your theory .

Waffennacht · January 2018

So he can get banned for some of these actions, but not all.

He can easily make a new account, probably uses a secondary account to scam from anyway.

So...

I mean, it's fruitless more than likely.

Imo the fact people did say he was blacklisted etc means he won't be getting too many people.

I just cod or deal with guildies

DoctorESO · January 2018

.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

So he can get banned for some of these actions, but not all.

He can easily make a new account, probably uses a secondary account to scam from anyway.

So...

I mean, it's fruitless more than likely.

Imo the fact people did say he was blacklisted etc means he won't be getting too many people.

I just cod or deal with guildies

This is correct . The guild bank scenario is where most get away with scams because someone gave permission to take so not really a scam . But get this , I do know someone that was stripped off all there mats for even doing that by a GM . Many screen shots were taken of guild rules about what is allowed to be taken and they used that evidence to get their mats back . The scammer claimed some of the mats were his but GM put all of them back in guild bank and guild removed player . So it really depends how you take care of your Ingame belongings and save screen shots of agreements made .

zaria · January 2018

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Write a report and add what he says in zone chat to the ticket . I guarantee a GM will read that an get personal lol .

yhea im sure many people did when they heard him and i will as well however i was astound when he said he was un banned by telling ZoS he was role playing as scammer and if he gets banned he will just say the same thing.

Now of course we don't know if that is true or not ..but if it is.. then that is worrying

It is absolutely 100% pure horse pucky and he is playing for limited time . ZoS will perma ban this behavior eventually but they give a warning . Don't let anyone tell you different .

Reporting some will have no effect however having 50 reports on you then the case finally hit an GM after an month will be bad

Kozato · January 2018

People justifying the scammers and saying the ones on the receiving are to blame. Sure they should have wised up, but you don't break into houses and fault them for not having their alarm loud enough?

Girl_Number8 · January 2018

Scrn save chat, give to your friends to protect them, report if u want to, move a long enjoy your game.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2018

zaria wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Write a report and add what he says in zone chat to the ticket . I guarantee a GM will read that an get personal lol .

yhea im sure many people did when they heard him and i will as well however i was astound when he said he was un banned by telling ZoS he was role playing as scammer and if he gets banned he will just say the same thing.

Now of course we don't know if that is true or not ..but if it is.. then that is worrying

It is absolutely 100% pure horse pucky and he is playing for limited time . ZoS will perma ban this behavior eventually but they give a warning . Don't let anyone tell you different .

Reporting some will have no effect however having 50 reports on you then the case finally hit an GM after an month will be bad

I understand your persimism but it's not the absolute truth . GM's go by evidence . If you screenshot conversations about arrangements then you will most likely get a good result from a ticket . Problem is most players trading are in a hurry . Any player can escalate a ticket if they are not happy with a result from the first GM . Adding evidence and siting TOS or even better a shadow play vid clip makes doing this easiest .

pattyLtd · January 2018

Its not cool and unethical but most of all its pathetic imo
Scamming people in a videogame what a badass

.

Scamming is obviously wrong at all times but it might be to time consuming to deal with these people for zos not sure though. I only sell and buy through guild stores or with people i know of course.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2018

pattyLtd wrote: »

Its not cool and unethical but most of all its pathetic imo
Scamming people in a videogame what a badass .

Scamming is obviously wrong at all times but it might be to time consuming to deal with these people for zos not sure though. I only sell and buy through guild stores or with people i know of course.

So true and not cool even in most RP communities . I've always RP'd as a thief since creation of my character but never in the literal term to take from other players or give false information on any agreement made . The code of conduct can not be bypassed for any niche game play reasons . Even if for some reason a game allowed that behavior , I would not participate in any type of griefing fellow players . People put time and work into gathering valuables , real time and effort . That is never fair to infringe upon because someone believes they are clever ... They are not clever at all and only fooling themselves . We should be able to trust each other on some level and not become anti social and paranoid . That makes for terrible game communities . There is plenty I've complained about with ZoS but their customer service is not one because they have always handled every issue I've ran into since launch at the very least , fairly .

Unfadingsilence · January 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

No, scamming is not allowed. If you've been scammed, file a report.

It's a form of role playing and it is allowed. If you don't trust or know the person you are selling stuff to or anything then use the in game mailing system "COD" if you get "scammed" then it sounds like it's your own fault. If someone takes things from the guild bank then that's on the GM since they have 100% say on who can access what

Aliyavana · January 2018

XD victim blaming in a video game? It's like saying just because you left your credit card on a table you are inviting someone to take it...

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

XD victim blaming in a video game? It's like saying just because you left your credit card on a table you are inviting someone to take it...

Even then... it's still a victim and the person who steals the credit card is still to blame.

It happened to me a couple of weeks ago : I found a credit card forgotten by someone in a public place. I called my own bank and asked them what to do, they gave me instructions as to where to safely send the card. They also told me it happened fairly often (ppl loosing/forgetting their card and other, honest people bringing it back without abusing the situation).

Dishonest people are still dishonest people, no matter what. Negligent people are only negligent people, and a moment of negligence happens to the best of us every now and then.

Do not excuse dishonesty, even in a video game.

On a side note, why does noone mention that ZOS should actually fix the hole in the trading window that allows for such scams ? We should be able to trust game systems and interfaces. If they're not reliable, they shouldn't even be there and mail / guild stores should be the only systems available.

ccfeeling · January 2018

For these issues , I think it's better just let the players solve it themselves or keep it in mind at all time .
We all know , ZOS is always lack of staffs . They can't even fix the cored issues...
4 years , 4 years Cyrodii is still lag like hell during massive war .

LordSemaj · January 2018

Best scam I've seen is the people who use dolmen grinds to level their character, link a Spriggans Ring in chat for sale that is properly CP 160, then trade you a CP 100 or something ring that they found while leveling.

wolf486 · January 2018

"if people are stupid to be scammed its their fault"

He's not wrong, and it's better to learn that in a video game