Healing without Resto Staff?

Vellandra79 · January 2018

Howdy!

So, I played the game for a little while in beta and after release, but stopped essentially because I couldn't find a class I was entirely happy with. Some of my favourite characters in online games have been healers, of the traditional D&D Cleric style - heavy armour and a big hammer to smack people round the head, getting right into the melee mix, while still delivering on the healer role. I played an Inquisitor in EQ2, Cleric in DDO, Healer in DAoC etc, including 'top end raiding', so I'm pretty experienced in it and like to be competitive at the 'end game'.

I hate the whole 'cloth armour and staff' feel of clerics in WoW. It's just entirely alien to everything I enjoy about playing the healer role. If I wanted to stand back wearing cloth and waving a stick around, I'd be a wussy mage

At the time I played, it was impossible to play the kind of healer I enjoy, because of the split between magicka and stamina (meaning you were not entirely effective if you tried to do both melee and healing), and because of the need for Resto Staff abilities, meaning more magicka requirements, which essentially meant wearing cloth armour for the magicka bonuses. Ugh.

Has anything changed in the past couple of years that means it's now possible to be an effective melee/stamina-based healer? Or at least, will I still feel 'gimped' if I give it a go? If I don't have the resto staff, will groups suffer because of it?

I'm happy pootling around solo with a random mix of abilities, playing what I love, but when it comes to grouping up, I prefer to play something that is highly effective.

Thanks for any comments!

casparian · January 2018

Stamina healers are kind of a thing now, but only on one specific build and class (Wardens), and even then they can't heal endgame content anything close to optimally. Magicka builds with resto staves are still the main healers in the game and the only ones at endgame.

Nestor · January 2018

If its a look your going for, you can run a Heavy Chest and Legs (or Helm) and the rest in light. This will give you 5 pieces for the magic benefits, some extra resistance for being tanky. But it will look like a Heavy Armor set. In fact, there are some nice Heavy Armor sets that benefit magic casters and give a resistance boost for being a Tanky Healer. Rattlecage is just one example. You can get this Heavy 2 pieces with Jewelry for a nice 5 piece set.

Finally, you can wear whatever armor you want, then use a Costume to make it look like Heavy. You can use one of the "normal" costumes you can can aquire in the game or in the Crown Store. Or, with the pending update, create a costume to wear over your gear that looks like any armor motif you know.

Where this game is now, looks can be completely different than the underlying gear so you can have the best of both worlds.

Nestor · January 2018

Oh, and if you run a Templar, you can heal using class skills and be holding a Sword and Board if you wanted to.

AcadianPaladin · January 2018

I agree with @casparian that since you say you want to be highly effective (as a group healer), then a resto staff is a big part of that.

That does not mean you have to be a squishy mage standing in the back waving a staff. My templar healer is very much an effective group healer and built quite along the lines of a traditional ESO healing templar. Thing is, the same mojo that makes her heals and support very strong also works on herself. That is, she can solo most world bosses by healing through everything they can dish out while fairly safely killing them.

In fact, when she takes on a world boss with a young bow plinker (for example), she'll actually grab the boss by the nose and face tank him to death (using largely Puncturing Sweeps and Channeled Focus). Yet, again, if you looked at her gear/skills, anyone would clearly see she is a pretty classic templar healer.

idk · January 2018

In the beginning of the game your idea would have worked though not ideal. Certainly not too raid group material but still could have healed a raid as the second healer.

Especially with Morrowind your build would be weaker due to lack of regen and cost reduction. Even slotting that in jewelry would not be sufficient since healers are already running regen or cost reduction for trials and any spell damage lost more than they do now would make your heals smaller.

An it still be done? Yes. Will it be solid. Not so much. Sorry.

SydneyGrey · January 2018

There are several skills in the Restoration Staff skill tree that are important for healers. If you don't use them, your healing will be sub-optimal and your dungeon allies will hate you and steal your sweetrolls later after you get them killed.

Vellandra79 · January 2018

Thanks for all the comments, even if it's not what I wanted to hear!

zaria · January 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Oh, and if you run a Templar, you can heal using class skills and be holding a Sword and Board if you wanted to.

Yes, for dedicated groups an healer / tank is an thing and an pretty good idea as you can run 3 DD without giving up much.
Dungeon finder don't support it but you can have an friend DD queue as healer or tank.
This is obviously harder than being healer or tank

FrancisCrawford · January 2018

zaria wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Oh, and if you run a Templar, you can heal using class skills and be holding a Sword and Board if you wanted to.

Yes, for dedicated groups an healer / tank is an thing and an pretty good idea as you can run 3 DD without giving up much.
Dungeon finder don't support it but you can have an friend DD queue as healer or tank.
This is obviously harder than being healer or tank

I've been meaning to make a thread about this, but instead I'll jump on here.

What are the most viable hybrid healer/tanks? How viable are they?

There obviously are a range of candidates to consider, including:

Health/shield tanking, where the shield takes the place of actual healing. My impression is that this used to be strong, after Alanarre popularized the idea, got nerfed, but still sort of works across several classes.
Templars, presumably in what is mainly a healing build.
Magicka sorcerers, spamming their magicka-based class shield.
Probably others I'm overlooking as well.

ascan7 · January 2018

I don't think that stamina healers are viable

You may try a templar or a warden with only class abilities and dual wield/s&b but even then, you would use swords instead of maces like in D&D

FrancisCrawford · January 2018

ascan7 wrote: »

I don't think that stamina healers are viable

You may try a templar or a warden with only class abilities and dual wield/s&b but even then, you would use swords instead of maces like in D&D

The last bit doesn't matter once you can change the appearance in the next patch. Swords can be made to look like maces.

Ciovala · January 2018

A healer tank build is pretty great, especially with friends. You can run all the vet dungeons without a healer anyway, but sometimes a tank is useful. Warden and Templar both have a ton of skills that heal and don’t need the staff. I do keep a staff on me for pugs and trials, though.

Magdalina · January 2018

I'd say it's even worse now since they've since removed softcaps, thus making pure magicka-only/stamina-only builds that much more effective.
Casparian linked an interesting build, but that'd be Warden and Warden only and even then I'm not sure how effective it'd be in harder content, and honestly 9/10 random groups would just try to kick you for "stamina healer" role. You could give it a try though, I wonder if you can heal vet dlc dungeons and stuff like that.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Oh, and if you run a Templar, you can heal using class skills and be holding a Sword and Board if you wanted to.

Yes, for dedicated groups an healer / tank is an thing and an pretty good idea as you can run 3 DD without giving up much.
Dungeon finder don't support it but you can have an friend DD queue as healer or tank.
This is obviously harder than being healer or tank

I've been meaning to make a thread about this, but instead I'll jump on here.

What are the most viable hybrid healer/tanks? How viable are they?

There obviously are a range of candidates to consider, including:
Health/shield tanking, where the shield takes the place of actual healing. My impression is that this used to be strong, after Alanarre popularized the idea, got nerfed, but still sort of works across several classes.

Templars, presumably in what is mainly a healing build.

Magicka sorcerers, spamming their magicka-based class shield.

Probably others I'm overlooking as well.

You roll a templar for that and put BoL on your bar and maybe Purifying Ritual too

Then spec for lots and lots and LOTS of magicka regeneration(along with enough sturdiness to actually not die yourself) and off you go. Is pretty fun. I'd done it on my blazing shield templar with 46k health, 26k magicka and 2-4k mag regen(depending on Lich proc). Am pretty self sufficient, it lets me spam Blazing Shield and provide quite a few heals when necessary. Obviously I'm not supplying the buffs proper healers do though. It's mostly just a tank with a heal slotted.

Sorc would have to slot Twilight on both bars to heal without resto staff and that's not very reliable, especially if she'll be the only heal group has. DKs group shields have been nerfed time and again, although they can still be decent but you have to pretty much go all out health for that with like 60-70k+ health, and you won't be able to heal without resto staff still.

Technically a lot of dungeons are easy enough to be "tanked" in full healing outfit but doing that in vet dlc ones will get you rekt.

RavenSworn · January 2018

Come next update, take Templar, wear bis healer gear and weapons, change how you look with the new outfit system. The only caveat is you still use resto staff for healing but you can however be unusual and use dual wield for the set bonuses. Or sword and shield if you want to role play abit. Either Templar or warden works since both have a dedicated healing skill line (arguably you can use Nightblade but that's has a Blood Mage feel than a cleric).

Reverb · January 2018

A Templar without a resto staff doesn't have access to the Major Mending buff, which is a problem if you want to heal difficult content. I would consider running a staff on your back bar at least, and sword and board or whatever you want up front.

altemriel · January 2018

healing without resto staff is like trying to do dps without a weapon

FakeFox · January 2018

No Restrostaff -> no Combat Prayer -> not viable

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · January 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

No Restrostaff -> no Combat Prayer -> not viable

This please. I have had a couple templars play with destro/ s/b and everything went fine, simply because I was on my sorc and the other dps was too. Wards and surge makes up for crap healing. I prefer my healers when I am done or tank to be healer first. That means combat prayer and springs.

FrancisCrawford · January 2018

Reverb wrote: »

doesn't have access to the Major Mending buff, which is a problem if you want to heal difficult content.

How difficult?

FrancisCrawford · January 2018

altemriel wrote: »

healing without resto staff is like trying to do dps without a weapon

I rely on resto staff much more than on class skills. Certainly I've healed easy dungeons on all five classes.

FrancisCrawford · January 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No Restrostaff -> no Combat Prayer -> not viable

This please. I have had a couple templars play with destro/ s/b and everything went fine, simply because I was on my sorc and the other dps was too. Wards and surge makes up for crap healing. I prefer my healers when I am done or tank to be healer first. That means combat prayer and springs.

Are you talking trials or 4-man? I've never healed a trial, but in 4-person content I rarely use Healing Springs or Combat Prayer. Much of the time I don't slot both. Sometimes I don't slot either.

The numbers aren't all that compelling on either skill for small groups in theory, and practice seems to match what theory suggests.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · January 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No Restrostaff -> no Combat Prayer -> not viable

This please. I have had a couple templars play with destro/ s/b and everything went fine, simply because I was on my sorc and the other dps was too. Wards and surge makes up for crap healing. I prefer my healers when I am done or tank to be healer first. That means combat prayer and springs.

Are you talking trials or 4-man? I've never healed a trial, but in 4-person content I rarely use Healing Springs or Combat Prayer. Much of the time I don't slot both. Sometimes I don't slot either.

The numbers aren't all that compelling on either skill for small groups in theory, and practice seems to match what theory suggests.

When I heal dungeons, I have extended ritual, combat prayer, lightning wall, shards, and healing springs down almost all the time. I basically cycle between those with applying purifying light every 20 seconds for the 5% more spell damage and eledrain around the same time. I have breath on my bar but that is how I know the group is good, they stack in my springs and I don't use breath, like ever. The reason o keep that all up is for SPC. What "numbers" do you need to have "compelling" for you to use them?

That is just on my temp, my warden is basically the same but with using enchanted growth for the buffs every 20 seconds. And leeching vines instead of extended ritual.

Ciovala · January 2018

For trials you pretty much need resto staff - healing springs and combat prayer get used a reasonable amount. However, for everything else you don't really need it. Hell you don't need healers at all with a good group, in any non-trial content.

My warden with SPC+Master architect definitely doesn't need the resto staff abilities for dungeons. There is a potential loss of the combat prayer buff, but in a 4 person group where I get to spam trees, the master architect buff is decent.

GimpyPorcupine · January 2018

OP, heavy healers are a very viable role in PvP, but not so much in PvE.

The hammer is useless IMO because the passive increases physical penetration, which while valid for melee attacks, doesn't help your healing. If you absolutely must run a 2H, a greatsword would be better.

FakeFox · January 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No Restrostaff -> no Combat Prayer -> not viable

This please. I have had a couple templars play with destro/ s/b and everything went fine, simply because I was on my sorc and the other dps was too. Wards and surge makes up for crap healing. I prefer my healers when I am done or tank to be healer first. That means combat prayer and springs.

Are you talking trials or 4-man? I've never healed a trial, but in 4-person content I rarely use Healing Springs or Combat Prayer. Much of the time I don't slot both. Sometimes I don't slot either.

The numbers aren't all that compelling on either skill for small groups in theory, and practice seems to match what theory suggests.

Combat Prayer gives minor berserk, so you should be using it every 8 seconds.

exeeter702 · January 2018

Vellandra79 wrote: »

Howdy!

So, I played the game for a little while in beta and after release, but stopped essentially because I couldn't find a class I was entirely happy with. Some of my favourite characters in online games have been healers, of the traditional D&D Cleric style - heavy armour and a big hammer to smack people round the head, getting right into the melee mix, while still delivering on the healer role. I played an Inquisitor in EQ2, Cleric in DDO, Healer in DAoC etc, including 'top end raiding', so I'm pretty experienced in it and like to be competitive at the 'end game'.

I hate the whole 'cloth armour and staff' feel of clerics in WoW. It's just entirely alien to everything I enjoy about playing the healer role. If I wanted to stand back wearing cloth and waving a stick around, I'd be a wussy mage

At the time I played, it was impossible to play the kind of healer I enjoy, because of the split between magicka and stamina (meaning you were not entirely effective if you tried to do both melee and healing), and because of the need for Resto Staff abilities, meaning more magicka requirements, which essentially meant wearing cloth armour for the magicka bonuses. Ugh.

Has anything changed in the past couple of years that means it's now possible to be an effective melee/stamina-based healer? Or at least, will I still feel 'gimped' if I give it a go? If I don't have the resto staff, will groups suffer because of it?

I'm happy pootling around solo with a random mix of abilities, playing what I love, but when it comes to grouping up, I prefer to play something that is highly effective.

Thanks for any comments!

Heres the thing that many comments here aremt really addressing. Are you putting a heavy emphasis on being a cleric like class thematically? When you say melee/stam are you asking explicity for a stamina scaling healer or do you simply want a tankier in you face melee range healer? If the later, than resource choice is irrelevant as templar will be in melee range for jabs regardless of wether you are mag or stamina. Templar has plenty of ways to fufill that cleric vibe all while being able to heal perfectly fine without the resto staff for easier 4 man content.

Would back baring a resto staff really kill your vibe? You can easy snb front bar, resto back bar, and either tank or heal 4 man content with flying colors.

Skills like blazing sheild, jabs, power of the light, breath of life, healing and cleansing ritual etc etc all make for solid choices for what you want. A quick back bar resto swap to drop combat prayer or light ls champion all works well with what you are looking for. I cant think of anything more "cleric" than that unless this game had morning stars or flails

Templar is really the only option for a cleric theme. Just because you go magicka under the hood does not automatically convert you into a "wussy" mage. Especially in pvp, heavy armor melee magplars are very tough. Unfortunately, however is that you cant have your threatening maul swings in any capacity while still being able to effectively heal.

FrancisCrawford · January 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No Restrostaff -> no Combat Prayer -> not viable

This please. I have had a couple templars play with destro/ s/b and everything went fine, simply because I was on my sorc and the other dps was too. Wards and surge makes up for crap healing. I prefer my healers when I am done or tank to be healer first. That means combat prayer and springs.

Are you talking trials or 4-man? I've never healed a trial, but in 4-person content I rarely use Healing Springs or Combat Prayer. Much of the time I don't slot both. Sometimes I don't slot either.

The numbers aren't all that compelling on either skill for small groups in theory, and practice seems to match what theory suggests.

Combat Prayer gives minor berserk, so you should be using it every 8 seconds.

That's not so obvious. It nominally adds 8% to DPS, which works out to something in the range of 6% or less, if we assume everybody has at least +30% in other bonuses. So per cast it adds less than 1/2 second of DPS to each player it hits. In a small group, that's not an outstanding return for a single cast of a not-cheap skill.

Armatesz · January 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Oh, and if you run a Templar, you can heal using class skills and be holding a Sword and Board if you wanted to.

True you could but personal experiences as a breton templar is both bars are resto staff, reason why that is a heavy magplar healer (yes a thing and yes endgame strong)