Allow vampires to look like a lower stage, and FIX tattoos

DoctorESO · January 2018

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idk · January 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This can be done already. It is called feeding to be at the level one desires.

But yes, tattoos should not fade like they do. Maybe a little but not basically disappear.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Great Power comes with great responsibility that never comes for free...be grateful that the only price you have to pay is aesthetic.

wait till you guys find out you can wear towels over your armor or turn your axes into daggers, even when this thread isn't a hide vampirism thread you all are against it... mah immersions! I guess ill dye my swords purple and wear a bathing towel as a tank

If this made sense concerning the topic I may pick up on the intended humor.

Belegnole · January 2018

idk wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This can be done already. It is called feeding to be at the level one desires.

But yes, tattoos should not fade like they do. Maybe a little but not basically disappear.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Great Power comes with great responsibility that never comes for free...be grateful that the only price you have to pay is aesthetic.

wait till you guys find out you can wear towels over your armor or turn your axes into daggers, even when this thread isn't a hide vampirism thread you all are against it... mah immersions! I guess ill dye my swords purple and wear a bathing towel as a tank

If this made sense concerning the topic I may pick up on the intended humor.

Actually it does make sense. If what's on the PTS goes live, you will be able to have an ax that looks like a sword. Based on that a vampire should be able to look like a human, right?

not that I agree with all of whats being changed...

Aliyavana · January 2018

idk wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This can be done already. It is called feeding to be at the level one desires.

But yes, tattoos should not fade like they do. Maybe a little but not basically disappear.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Great Power comes with great responsibility that never comes for free...be grateful that the only price you have to pay is aesthetic.

wait till you guys find out you can wear towels over your armor or turn your axes into daggers, even when this thread isn't a hide vampirism thread you all are against it... mah immersions! I guess ill dye my swords purple and wear a bathing towel as a tank

If this made sense concerning the topic I may pick up on the intended humor.

it means that the argument based on immersion is gone, and lore supports hiding vampirism anyways

DoctorESO · January 2018

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Kambo · January 2018

I personally think that if you're going to get the benefits from being a Stage 4 Vampire then you need to pay the penalty for power and look like a monster. Even with the lore excuse of Illusion Magic I feel like wanting to even look like a lower stage of vampirism is, for lack of a better word, stupid. Granted your opinion is respected and everything, but I just don't think this is a good idea.

aliyavana wrote: »

Hakon looks nothing like a skooma addict

Harkon in Skyrim doesn't look like a monster in his Human form likely because of the type of vampire he is. His true power shows itself in the form of the Vampire Lord. In the case of being a vampire in ESO, you do not gain the ability to become a vampire lord. Your strongest form as a vampire comes from being Stage 4. Looking more monstrous at the furthest stage of vampirism is fair and should not have a workaround that normal players can't also use for something similar, such as the cosmetic skin items. If they ever allowed your character to become a vampire lord then I would expect them in turn to change the non-transformed appearance of vampires (or come up with an excuse to not change it).

In addition, the argument that if Vampires get to change how they look then Werewolves should too seems justified and stupid to me at the same time. To clarify I mean the argument of "If Vampires can make themselves look not at all like vampires then Werewolves should be able to do the same" is stupid. Wanting to look like a different Werewolf or Werebeast would be justified though. I wouldn't mind a Werebear option for werewolves, but then again this is all assuming Vampires get to change their appearance or vice versa.

aliyavana wrote: »

ok so when mortal skin becomes available in the crown store, and it will because money, I will use a existing mechanic and you cant complain .

There won't be a reason to complain should everyone be allowed to use it at any time. From what I noticed you made this thread hoping to either see opinions on the matter or hope that everyone else agrees with you. When not everyone agreed, you got defensive by using the coming Outfit system as an argument.

aliyavana wrote: »

wait till you guys find out you can wear towels over your armor or turn your axes into daggers, even when this thread isn't a hide vampirism thread you all are against it... mah immersions! I guess ill dye my swords purple and wear a bathing towel as a tank

The Outfit system allows everyone to have their gear look the way they want, which is reasonable as it does not directly edit how your character looks without said gear. It's purely for the people who like designing custom armor sets or simply like their gear to look the best it can be. The justification I can see placed in regards to armor weight splicing is that you simply made the armor using the materials you specialize in but designed it to look like a different weight, which is a reasonable explanation.

In the case of Vampires using Illusion Magic to mask their appearance I would like to see any lore that states that any vampire ever has done this. The only somewhat similar thing that comes to mind in regards to this is that type of Vampire who's true appearance can only be seen under candlelight, which I believe is just a trait I believe that type of vampire has.

aliyavana wrote: »

so you want me to look like a monster and you are also a vampire but you are not willing to deal with the consequences of being a vampire and so you put on a skin? hypocrisy much

This is not hypocrisy as skins are available to every player and more often than not are even more monstrous in appearance than Stage 4 Vampire. You can always use a skin if you don't like the Stage 4 Vampire appearance. But let's be honest you won't do that because why else would you have made this thread to begin with?

What you want is the ability to make yourself look like what you aren't. You are a Stage 4 Vampire and quite frankly you should just live with it. If you don't like the way it looks then either stick with being Stage 2 or drop being a vampire entirely.

Do you want to look like a somewhat normal person or do you want power?
These are your options.

ForgottenHeretic · January 2018

Personally I don't mind the look of stage 4 though its not my favourite look of a vampire from the ES games, and I like standing out as a vampire, but I don't see what the problem is that so many people seem to have with others wanting to change their look as a vampire. I get the point about not looking mortal and don't see the point there myself but the OP has not been talking about that, He/She wants to be able to choose what kind of vampire they look like as He/She doesn't like the look of stage 4 as many people don't. Its no different than the suggestion that has been made about werewolves wanting different skins to look like different kinds of lycanthrope yet no one is complaining that you are a werewolf so you should look like one etc (though I agree different skins would be good, I have werewolf characters as well). There are countless cosmetic items to change your appearance in the crown store so how is this any different to want to look like a kind of vampire (or lycanthrope) you are happy with?
Several posts have said you should live with the consequences of being a vampire if you choose to be one as if the appearance makes any difference to the game, like in Oblivion when you would be attacked for being stage four, but it makes no difference so I say let people play as they want to look (within reason of course, no completely mortal looking vampires or human looking transformed werewolves)

zaria · January 2018

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Great Power comes with great responsibility that never comes for free...be grateful that the only price you have to pay is aesthetic.

Think an 100% weakness to fire should work together with level 2 look, don't think we need sun damage.

Belegnole · January 2018

Ok, I'll admit it. I put the skin from the crown store on my baby tank. The white Argonian just wasn't cutting it with my original concept of a DK tank /fire breathing dragon sort of thing. The blood forged skin gives that lava feel that fits. Put a kilt on him as well and now I'm at peace with his look. He still looks like a monster, but now it fits my RP side.

Obviously for many of us appearances matter. Otherwise they wouldn't be making a update that includes the new outfit station.

Sevalaricgirl · January 2018

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Khajiit looks awesome at stage 4...I don't want it change so if you cant pay the price of power then you are NOT WORTHY!

I've already shown pics of my Breton at stage 4. She looks great. I'll stay with stage 4 looks at stage 4 too.

VilniusNastavnik · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Vampires that don't want to look like Vampires. If that happens next Werewolves will not want to look like Werewolves.

Did someone say Werebears?

programcanaan · January 2018

Elder Scrolls always with the starving vampires.

Wish there were some actual feeding incentives. And based on the name of this particular strain "Noxophilic Sanguivoria" the buffs should all be night based. If all the passive were night time and more buffs were added for maintaining stage 2 or 3 all/most of the time (Feeding buffs). The system would be more interesting. Making vampires a bit more polarizing.

Too many Vamps.

Or maybe we need a Dawnguard for non abominations

MornaBaine · January 2018

The fact is that the lore of the Elder Scrolls has always supported the ability of SOME strains of vampires to look like normal mortals. You see more than one of them in this game itself that appear as normal mortals at the beginning of the quests that involve them. In DC, notably Count Ravenwatch and a Breton healer named Heloise. Lamae Bal herself has dialogue at the end of the vampire quest that tells you that her children are out there and that they may wear both rags or crowns... a clear indication that those with the game strain of vampirism of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria SHOULD be able to pass as normal mortals. This does not ignore the Stages but Stage 1 SHOULD look like there is no vampirism at all as it reflects a "well fed" stage. One, two and three should really be two, three and four. The lore is there for vampires being able to "blend in" and it is consistent across the ES franchise. ZOS goofed up on this and they need to correct it. The argument of "you have to look like a monster" literally holds no weight at all as it flies in the face of the actual lore.

Runschei · January 2018

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Great Power comes with great responsibility that never comes for free...be grateful that the only price you have to pay is aesthetic.

Go swallow a dawnbreaker or have some lovely fire damage sent at you as a vampire. The vampire look is NOT the downside.

Other than that, I am all for either a new passive skill that will hide my vampirism or allow me to appear as stage 1, or an option to hide vampirism using a NORMAL skin or same toggle as the old option to hide helmet. Fixing tattoos should not be a problem for ZOS seeing as their bright red lipstick is visible over the vampire skin.

Aliyavana · January 2018

MornaBaine wrote: »

The fact is that the lore of the Elder Scrolls has always supported the ability of SOME strains of vampires to look like normal mortals. You see more than one of them in this game itself that appear as normal mortals at the beginning of the quests that involve them. In DC, notably Count Ravenwatch and a Breton healer named Heloise. Lamae Bal herself has dialogue at the end of the vampire quest that tells you that her children are out there and that they may wear both rags or crowns... a clear indication that those with the game strain of vampirism of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria SHOULD be able to pass as normal mortals. This does not ignore the Stages but Stage 1 SHOULD look like there is no vampirism at all as it reflects a "well fed" stage. One, two and three should really be two, three and four. The lore is there for vampires being able to "blend in" and it is consistent across the ES franchise. ZOS goofed up on this and they need to correct it. The argument of "you have to look like a monster" literally holds no weight at all as it flies in the face of the actual lore.

The anti hide vamparism crowd care not for lore immersion but only about headcanon lore. And the others who want people to look vamparism because that's how vampires should look like in their eyes.

Lore>headcanon

MornaBaine · January 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

The fact is that the lore of the Elder Scrolls has always supported the ability of SOME strains of vampires to look like normal mortals. You see more than one of them in this game itself that appear as normal mortals at the beginning of the quests that involve them. In DC, notably Count Ravenwatch and a Breton healer named Heloise. Lamae Bal herself has dialogue at the end of the vampire quest that tells you that her children are out there and that they may wear both rags or crowns... a clear indication that those with the game strain of vampirism of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria SHOULD be able to pass as normal mortals. This does not ignore the Stages but Stage 1 SHOULD look like there is no vampirism at all as it reflects a "well fed" stage. One, two and three should really be two, three and four. The lore is there for vampires being able to "blend in" and it is consistent across the ES franchise. ZOS goofed up on this and they need to correct it. The argument of "you have to look like a monster" literally holds no weight at all as it flies in the face of the actual lore.

The anti hide vamparism crowd care not for lore immersion but only about headcanon lore. And the others who want people to look vamparism because that's how vampires should look like in their eyes.

Lore>headcanon

Oh I know logic and fact hold no weight with certain people who will ignore anything they don't want to hear. When I speak up on this it isn't to try to change their minds, which would be an exercise in futility anyway. I do it because there are an awful lot of players who DON'T know the lore and maybe haven't done the very quests in this game that refute the silly "you have to look like a monster" argument and all they see on these forums is people saying that over and over as if it will somehow make it true when it's not. When people without some weird "anti-monster" axe to grind find out the truth they realize what a silly idea the "you have to look like a monster" position is and sometimes become advocates of ZOS correcting their mistake on this. I don't point these facts out for those who lack critical thinking skills... I do it for the folks who have functioning brains and are capable of taking in and understanding new information.

Hippie4927 · January 2018

I don't mind the way my vamps look and I've never used a skin or disguise to try and hide it but, if others want a skin, I am all for it. For all the 'anti-hide vampirism' crowd out there........Why do you care? How does it effect your gameplay?

Vulsahdaal · January 2018

Hippie4927 wrote: »

I don't mind the way my vamps look and I've never used a skin or disguise to try and hide it but, if others want a skin, I am all for it. For all the 'anti-hide vampirism' crowd out there........Why do you care? How does it effect your gameplay?

Honestly, I guess the only reason for me anyway, is that as a werewolf it just feels like another kick in the tail for our kind.
Yes, unlike the vampires, we do blend in with the crowd nicely when we wish to, but like everything else, it comes with a price. We lose our good passives, unless in werewolf form (which is on a timer).
If such a change was to take place, that vampires could look normal until they activated a 'vampire form' as a timed ultimate, only then having access to vampire skill line (and passives) then I would probably have no objections to it at all.
Plus, I think it would look pretty cool, not to mention be a good 'oh ****' moment, to be in a pvp or a dual with someone only to have them unexpectedly vamp out on you

Runschei · January 2018

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

I don't mind the way my vamps look and I've never used a skin or disguise to try and hide it but, if others want a skin, I am all for it. For all the 'anti-hide vampirism' crowd out there........Why do you care? How does it effect your gameplay?

Honestly, I guess the only reason for me anyway, is that as a werewolf it just feels like another kick in the tail for our kind.
Yes, unlike the vampires, we do blend in with the crowd nicely when we wish to, but like everything else, it comes with a price. We lose our good passives, unless in werewolf form (which is on a timer).
If such a change was to take place, that vampires could look normal until they activated a 'vampire form' as a timed ultimate, only then having access to vampire skill line (and passives) then I would probably have no objections to it at all.
Plus, I think it would look pretty cool, not to mention be a good 'oh ****' moment, to be in a pvp or a dual with someone only to have them unexpectedly vamp out on you

That doesn't add up with the lore unless the vampires in the ESO universe are of the same 'breed' as the Volkihar ones from Skyrim, which they are not.

Hippie4927 · January 2018

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

I don't mind the way my vamps look and I've never used a skin or disguise to try and hide it but, if others want a skin, I am all for it. For all the 'anti-hide vampirism' crowd out there........Why do you care? How does it effect your gameplay?

Honestly, I guess the only reason for me anyway, is that as a werewolf it just feels like another kick in the tail for our kind.
Yes, unlike the vampires, we do blend in with the crowd nicely when we wish to, but like everything else, it comes with a price. We lose our good passives, unless in werewolf form (which is on a timer).
If such a change was to take place, that vampires could look normal until they activated a 'vampire form' as a timed ultimate, only then having access to vampire skill line (and passives) then I would probably have no objections to it at all.
Plus, I think it would look pretty cool, not to mention be a good 'oh ****' moment, to be in a pvp or a dual with someone only to have them unexpectedly vamp out on you

But isn't that the way it is in all vamp/werewolf lore? Vamps are vamps all the time and have their strengths and weaknesses all the time. Werewolves only have their strength when they transform. I've never seen ANY lore that has it different.

That being said......I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of buff for werewolves.

MornaBaine · January 2018

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

Hippie4927 wrote: »

I don't mind the way my vamps look and I've never used a skin or disguise to try and hide it but, if others want a skin, I am all for it. For all the 'anti-hide vampirism' crowd out there........Why do you care? How does it effect your gameplay?

Honestly, I guess the only reason for me anyway, is that as a werewolf it just feels like another kick in the tail for our kind.
Yes, unlike the vampires, we do blend in with the crowd nicely when we wish to, but like everything else, it comes with a price. We lose our good passives, unless in werewolf form (which is on a timer).
If such a change was to take place, that vampires could look normal until they activated a 'vampire form' as a timed ultimate, only then having access to vampire skill line (and passives) then I would probably have no objections to it at all.
Plus, I think it would look pretty cool, not to mention be a good 'oh ****' moment, to be in a pvp or a dual with someone only to have them unexpectedly vamp out on you

But isn't that the way it is in all vamp/werewolf lore? Vamps are vamps all the time and have their strengths and weaknesses all the time. Werewolves only have their strength when they transform. I've never seen ANY lore that has it different.

That being said......I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of buff for werewolves.

Eh, most folklore and literature supports werewolves having some above average perks all the time even as humans. Heightened senses and superior strength as well as an all the time weakness to silver and wolvesbane. So it would make sense to let the wolfies have their passives on all the time. They should.

And honestly, I'd LOVE a vamp ultimate that, as part of the animation, makes you go from "looks like a normal person" to some terrifying Stage 4 creepiness in an instant. lol I'd be using it all the time!

xeNNNNN · January 2018

Kiara wrote: »

Why not make it as new passive so you actually pay the price of being a vampire?

And about that, being a vampire should come with consequences

I should note; consequences for gameplay and consequences for asthetics are two different things.

The argument here is clearly cosmetic and not gameplay changing. Adding a new passive wouldn't make sense. It would also be a waste of the devs time as you cant simply just add a passive for lulz because it will just cause a bunch of visual glitches and bugs.

let vampires have it as an additional feature of dark stalker instead of creating a brand new one.

Ermiq · January 2018

It was your choice to become a bloodsucker. Deal with it.

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Kiara wrote: »

Why not make it as new passive so you actually pay the price of being a vampire?

And about that, being a vampire should come with consequences

Adding a new passive wouldn't make sense. It would also be a waste of the devs time as you cant simply just add a passive for lulz because it will just cause a bunch of visual glitches and bugs.

Actually, it's not difficult to add another one passive in the passives list template. Code-wise there's no difference between writing the code for new passive and re-writing the code for existing passive. Trust me, I know how programs work.

Also, no matter is it a gameplay or cosmetic changing. Remember Mages Guild final quest choice and reward. It's not even a cosmetics, it's just roleplay choice, immersive choice. I've choosed Sheogorath's option just once on my crafter ('cause I need skillpoints on a crafter so bad). All my other characters had choosed a "good" option with no actual reward, just because I feel it right to make that choice. I don't care about skillpoints.
So, what I want to say is if someone really really wants to hide his bloodsucker nature he would spend some skillpoints for that passive. If you don't want to spend anything then probably you shouldn't complain about it, because you already got profits from your vampirism, so why don't you want to pay for it?