Suggestions for Sorc Pet changes...

LioraValkyrie · January 2018

1) This is number one because it is the most important: make them ethereal! Just like Nightblade's shadows and quite a few pets summoned by set procs, make Sorcerer pets have no health, take no damage and cannot be targeted by players or enemies. These are skills, and as such should be available to players at all times just like any other skill. No other skill dies and takes 2.5 seconds - at magicka cost! - to make it available to cast again.
2) Make the Twilight at least 50% smaller and the Familiar/Clannfear 25% smaller. A lot of people choose not to use pets, or are annoyed by other people's pets, just because they are too darn big and hence obscure people's vision of important animations.
3) Since pets will no longer draw aggro - this is given if they are made ethereal, because they cannot be targeted - the Clannfear will need a new purpose. Just as the Volatile Familiar stuns on its final pulse, allow the Clannfear to be activated to leap and stun a target for 3 seconds, then bleeds for X damage over 10 seconds. The Twilight already heals more than the Clannfear, unless you are a tank, so keep the Clannfear/Familiar choice between stam and mag dps.
4) Since pets will no longer die - again, because of being ethereal - there is no need to sort out dodgy scripting that insta-kill them for no reason when certain enemies die. If they are not made ethereal, please sort out these scripting issues.

It's no fun taking hundreds of hours to master a build that is literally useless in certain situations because your key skills are, at best, greyed out and, at worst, actually causing other players to die. These proposed changes (except Clannfear idea) do not constitute a buff to Sorc pets - only a way to remove a situation-based nerf that was likely to be unintentional in the first place.

Leingod · January 2018

Er except pets can draw aggro from bosses? And having a ridiculous heal that can't be stopped? Idk about this one

LioraValkyrie · January 2018

Leingod wrote: »

Er except pets can draw aggro from bosses? And having a ridiculous heal that can't be stopped? Idk about this one

I am suggesting the pets should not draw any aggro at all. Regarding the heal, BoL heals just as much and only needs to be slotted on one bar. BoL cannot be stopped, why should a sorc healer's heal die and take 2.5 seconds to be made available again?

stewhead2ub17_ESO · January 2018

I've read and considered your proposal and I don't care for your idea as stated. While an "ethereal" pet might be interesting, I am of the belief that the pets sorcs use should be tangible beings, and as such draw aggro. Also, while I understand your point about the size of the pets, I feel they should be actual size as their counterparts encountered in the field. Certain perks and powers come with consequences imo.

LioraValkyrie · January 2018

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I've read and considered your proposal and I don't care for your idea as stated. While an "ethereal" pet might be interesting, I am of the belief that the pets sorcs use should be tangible beings, and as such draw aggro. Also, while I understand your point about the size of the pets, I feel they should be actual size as their counterparts encountered in the field. Certain perks and powers come with consequences imo.

I see what you are saying in terms of what they actually are supposed to be- real summoned daedra. Unfortunately, the ultimate consequence of their tangible nature is being told to GTFO of veteran trials

Dymence · January 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I've read and considered your proposal and I don't care for your idea as stated. While an "ethereal" pet might be interesting, I am of the belief that the pets sorcs use should be tangible beings, and as such draw aggro. Also, while I understand your point about the size of the pets, I feel they should be actual size as their counterparts encountered in the field. Certain perks and powers come with consequences imo.

I see what you are saying in terms of what they actually are supposed to be- real summoned daedra. Unfortunately, the ultimate consequence of their tangible nature is being told to GTFO of veteran trials

Volatile familiar is meta for magsorc in vet trials, aside from veteran asylum and the mage in vAA

Familiar and twilight build also works fine

LioraValkyrie · January 2018

Dymence wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I've read and considered your proposal and I don't care for your idea as stated. While an "ethereal" pet might be interesting, I am of the belief that the pets sorcs use should be tangible beings, and as such draw aggro. Also, while I understand your point about the size of the pets, I feel they should be actual size as their counterparts encountered in the field. Certain perks and powers come with consequences imo.

I see what you are saying in terms of what they actually are supposed to be- real summoned daedra. Unfortunately, the ultimate consequence of their tangible nature is being told to GTFO of veteran trials

Volatile familiar is meta for magsorc in vet trials, aside from veteran asylum and the mage in vAA

Familiar and twilight build also works fine

Hmm, just so happens I was doing vAA yesterday and vAS today. To chill out after vAS I did vRoM with some friends, then remembered the totems at the last boss instakill the pets when they are killed. Just all the pet-unfriendly content stacked into too short a time, I guess...

LioraValkyrie · January 2018

Commenting on my own OP, an easily encoded compromise could be to remove the cast time from pet summoning. They could then be unsummoned (with addon hotkeys) at critical moments and resummoned quickly to resume combat. In 99% of situations, this change would have no impact whatsoever, and in the other 1% it would be really useful and make petsorc gameplay feel much more fluid.

Tasear · January 2018

Pets don't Argo people do. But it's an issue that some buffs still. Especially warden ones.

Morgul667 · January 2018

Would be happy to see some trials be more pet friendly (vAA)

Rest is fine by me

supaskrub · January 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

1)These are skills, and as such should be available to players at all times just like any other skill. No other skill dies and takes 2.5 seconds - at magicka cost! - to make it available to cast again.

No other skill can be healed to live for ages from one cast and do substantial dps (volatile familiar) while having a strong shield to prevent it from dying easily.

monktoasty · January 2018

No

Dojohoda · January 2018

Sorc pets must be killable. If they are made unkillable, then they must expire after a few seconds.

monktoasty · January 2018

Dojohoda wrote: »

Sorc pets must be killable. If they are made unkillable, then they must expire after a few seconds.

They are Killable already

Dojohoda · January 2018

monktoasty wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Sorc pets must be killable. If they are made unkillable, then they must expire after a few seconds.

They are Killable already

I know

TheShadowScout · January 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

1) This is number one because it is the most important: make them ethereal! Just like Nightblade's shadows and quite a few pets summoned by set procs, make Sorcerer pets have no health, take no damage and cannot be targeted by players or enemies...

Yeah, riiight.
Which would also loose their ability to distract bosses into hitting them and not the usually squishy sorceror, which -kinda- is their main point, really.
And if they stayed around as they do now, they would have to also do as little damage as a nightblades shadow. Or otherwise vanish as quickly as those set-summoned critters.

Lorewise, they are supposed to be summoned daedra. NOT tangible shadow-illusions, not spirits popping up, but actual dardric beasties dragged through the veil between worlds from oblivion against their wishes because they were... summoned by a mortal!

So... that pretty much makes the whole OP concept a bad idea I daresay.
Worse, it would need tons of rebalancing, for no additional profit ZOS could gain from it, and it would end up vexing many people...
Yeah, I can't really see that happening, ever.

LioraValkyrie · January 2018

Every idea I post on here is a bad idea, apparently. I should know better, really. This argument that sorc pets must be killable because they are daedra makes no sense. We can kill ghosts with daggers in ESO, and spirits of all kinds persist indefinitely, but oh well. Bringing sorc pets into line with NB shades (which nobody uses in PvE in my experience, because they do so little damage) by making them instant cast and lasting for 25-30 seconds is not something I would be averse to necessarily.

The only thing I am averse to is a build that is very strong in most situations being virtually locked out of certain content because I have to spend 5+ seconds stuck in channelling animations, doing 0 dps, to resummon my pets every thirty seconds before I can continue with a rotation. Whatever form the solution to this problem comes in, I'm all for it.

It is not as easy as removing the pets and replacing them with other skills. Daedric Prey, which is what allows the pets to be such powerful damage dealers, must be remorphed into Haunting Curse to maintain good dps without them. Then you have to change every piece of gear you are wearing, and there are also slight differences to CP optimization if you switch to a LA Force Pulse build.

Of course everyone needs to add or take a way a skill or two to optimise for different scenarios, but as far as I'm aware there is no other class where a dd is forced to change their gear, their entire rotation and even the source of their damage dealt and heals to accommodate for mechanics.

TheShadowScout · January 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

Every idea I post on here is a bad idea, apparently. I should know better, really...

...no, you shouldn't!

This forum IS the place to test your ideas.
Even if they may not be so great... if you do not put them to the test of feedback, you can never find the flaws in your thinking to improve after all! And the other people will happily point out any issues they see, you just have to ignore the whining comments, and focus on those who actually make an effort to bring decent arguments.

So, bring on the ideas, even the bad ones. You never know what might come of it - sometimes a bad idea can spawn a good idea in its wake after all!

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

The only thing I am averse to is a build that is very strong in most situations being virtually locked out of certain content because I have to spend 5+ seconds stuck in channelling animations, doing 0 dps, to resummon my pets every thirty seconds before I can continue with a rotation...

Nothing can serve -every- purpose.

Some builds just will be like that - good in some situations, bad in others.
Accept it.

And adjust your build as needed. Which may at some times mean leaving your pets at home and going all out ranged caster. That's just the way things are. That is how things -should- be.

I mean, its like playing rock-paper-scissors and demanding the game be changed so your paper can win every time. Not likely. And neither is changing things so every build performs the same in every situation. Because adjusting your character setup to the situation you expect to face IS part of the fun!

SoLooney · January 2018

only complaint i have with pets is that some trials they die way too much or in AA, draw lightning on the melee players causing deaths

they need to be more pet friendly and not draw out mechanics

Slick_007 · January 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

1) This is number one because it is the most important: make them ethereal! Just like Nightblade's shadows and quite a few pets summoned by set procs, make Sorcerer pets have no health, take no damage and cannot be targeted by players or enemies. These are skills, and as such should be available to players at all times just like any other skill. No other skill dies and takes 2.5 seconds - at magicka cost! - to make it available to cast again.

NO! you clearly dont understand what these pets are for

2) Make the Twilight at least 50% smaller and the Familiar/Clannfear 25% smaller. A lot of people choose not to use pets, or are annoyed by other people's pets, just because they are too darn big and hence obscure people's vision of important animations.

No. silly reasoning

3) Since pets will no longer draw aggro - this is given if they are made ethereal, because they cannot be targeted - the Clannfear will need a new purpose. Just as the Volatile Familiar stuns on its final pulse, allow the Clannfear to be activated to leap and stun a target for 3 seconds, then bleeds for X damage over 10 seconds. The Twilight already heals more than the Clannfear, unless you are a tank, so keep the Clannfear/Familiar choice between stam and mag dps.

NO. stop buggering my pet.

4) Since pets will no longer die - again, because of being ethereal - there is no need to sort out dodgy scripting that insta-kill them for no reason when certain enemies die. If they are not made ethereal, please sort out these scripting issues.

NO! you sort out your issues and stop screwing my pets.

It's no fun taking hundreds of hours to master a build that is literally useless in certain situations because your key skills are, at best, greyed out and, at worst, actually causing other players to die. These proposed changes (except Clannfear idea) do not constitute a buff to Sorc pets - only a way to remove a situation-based nerf that was likely to be unintentional in the first place.

whatever you are smoking, pass it around. its clearly having an effect on your brain. The rest of us will need it to try and understand your bizarre and silly reasoning.

Slick_007 · January 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

The only thing I am averse to is a build that is very strong in most situations being virtually locked out of certain content because I have to spend 5+ seconds stuck in channelling animations, doing 0 dps, to resummon my pets every thirty seconds before I can continue with a rotation. Whatever form the solution to this problem comes in, I'm all for it.

overexaggerate much? You're doing something very seriously wrong if you have to resummon your pets every 30 seconds. very, very wrong.

idk · January 2018

1. Clearly the NB shadows are intended to be very different that Sorc pets. Additionally, they lack any secondary damage effect like the Sorc pets have. Further, there is a passive that grants magicka back when a pet dies.

The question is what are you willing to give up to make sorc pets work like you are suggesting? The secondary effect would be the first to go to make them like the NB shadows and probably make them worthless.

2. Their size is comparable to what is in the game already. Very likely few choose to run pets or not based on their size.

3.No reason to reply to this since the first two points have not been adequately justified.

Dymence · January 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

Of course everyone needs to add or take a way a skill or two to optimise for different scenarios, but as far as I'm aware there is no other class where a dd is forced to change their gear, their entire rotation and even the source of their damage dealt and heals to accommodate for mechanics.

While you make it seem like a bad thing, it doesn't necessarily have to be.

Every other class is pigeonholed into the one and only meta build, give or take a few skills to swap out. Magsorc is actually the only one in that regard that has some form of "freedom" to swap between two completely different specs and still be able to play on a competitive level.

That comes with the flipside that you must use one specific spec for a few encounters, but so be it. I don't really see an issue with having to swap for some stuff to be honest, that just kinda sounds like lazy talk from your side.

Kuramas9tails · January 2018

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

Leingod wrote: »

Er except pets can draw aggro from bosses? And having a ridiculous heal that can't be stopped? Idk about this one

I am suggesting the pets should not draw any aggro at all. Regarding the heal, BoL heals just as much and only needs to be slotted on one bar. BoL cannot be stopped, why should a sorc healer's heal die and take 2.5 seconds to be made available again?

BOL is line of sight healing. Twilight is not. It is also cheaper to heal and heals as much as BOL. Not to emotion when you do VMA, having adds be agro on a pet is a blessing. One less hit on you. My boyfriend and I two man dungeons a lot on our pet builds and plenty of times bosses are agro on a pet and him and I don't need to "tank" and dish out damage. Pet Sorcs is a blessing and easy. And Sorcerers are "summoners". The summoned will die and should. It sucks at times but it's a part of the build that makes it unique.

ccfeeling · January 2018

Actually u could ignore nb pet dmg, we summon it for utility functions tho, dmg is freaking low even we have 50k magicka.

kargen27 · January 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

1) This is number one because it is the most important: make them ethereal! Just like Nightblade's shadows and quite a few pets summoned by set procs, make Sorcerer pets have no health, take no damage and cannot be targeted by players or enemies. These are skills, and as such should be available to players at all times just like any other skill. No other skill dies and takes 2.5 seconds - at magicka cost! - to make it available to cast again.

NO! you clearly dont understand what these pets are for

2) Make the Twilight at least 50% smaller and the Familiar/Clannfear 25% smaller. A lot of people choose not to use pets, or are annoyed by other people's pets, just because they are too darn big and hence obscure people's vision of important animations.

No. silly reasoning

3) Since pets will no longer draw aggro - this is given if they are made ethereal, because they cannot be targeted - the Clannfear will need a new purpose. Just as the Volatile Familiar stuns on its final pulse, allow the Clannfear to be activated to leap and stun a target for 3 seconds, then bleeds for X damage over 10 seconds. The Twilight already heals more than the Clannfear, unless you are a tank, so keep the Clannfear/Familiar choice between stam and mag dps.

NO. stop buggering my pet.

4) Since pets will no longer die - again, because of being ethereal - there is no need to sort out dodgy scripting that insta-kill them for no reason when certain enemies die. If they are not made ethereal, please sort out these scripting issues.

NO! you sort out your issues and stop screwing my pets.

It's no fun taking hundreds of hours to master a build that is literally useless in certain situations because your key skills are, at best, greyed out and, at worst, actually causing other players to die. These proposed changes (except Clannfear idea) do not constitute a buff to Sorc pets - only a way to remove a situation-based nerf that was likely to be unintentional in the first place.

whatever you are smoking, pass it around. its clearly having an effect on your brain. The rest of us will need it to try and understand your bizarre and silly reasoning.

I like number two. First I find those wings not only annoying but in a fight where I need to stay in place they make me slightly motion sick. That I can deal with most the time by taking one step to the left. What is really annoying though is the flappy wings in town while trying to craft, pick a chest or any number of other things. In town they become pests and nothing more. If they were smaller it would make me happy. If they disappeared in towns that would make me even happier.