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About all the drama regarding screaming racers...
DanielWinterborn
✭✭✭
You must be really bad at PvP.
I'm a warden and I only use 1 cliff racer in my combo to make it land all at the same time. There is no animation canceling, it takes a while to get to the target so you can see it. I encountered the bird spammer as well but it doesn't really hurt me at all, it's just damage that I can block, cancel with my shields with no dot or debuff or anything.
Let's say that you can get hit with 5k crits from really good players but you can simply cancel at least two of them with your shield if you're a mage, or simply block them on stamina. Use your surrounding terrain to block your enemy's view and he can't use them.
If you do get more than 5k hits then you should tank your build up a bit, use your CP's to do that and impen your gear.
I sometimes find myself needing to spam two or 3 of them as well but only against NB who we know.... Dodge roll, vanish. Screaming racer can't be dodged but invisible enemies can't be hit so you can't blame me for that.
From time to time I do encounter the super newb with like 30 CP's and probably not even wearing two sets and I do hit him for 10k damage or so. I feel bad for the guy but he's another body on that flag alongside 3 other better people so he has to go down with the ship.
Bottom line is that the skill is fine, decent damage, more of a filler and sometimes finisher for NB, not my fault you didn't go invisible sooner...
I'm a warden and I only use 1 cliff racer in my combo to make it land all at the same time. There is no animation canceling, it takes a while to get to the target so you can see it. I encountered the bird spammer as well but it doesn't really hurt me at all, it's just damage that I can block, cancel with my shields with no dot or debuff or anything.
Let's say that you can get hit with 5k crits from really good players but you can simply cancel at least two of them with your shield if you're a mage, or simply block them on stamina. Use your surrounding terrain to block your enemy's view and he can't use them.
If you do get more than 5k hits then you should tank your build up a bit, use your CP's to do that and impen your gear.
I sometimes find myself needing to spam two or 3 of them as well but only against NB who we know.... Dodge roll, vanish. Screaming racer can't be dodged but invisible enemies can't be hit so you can't blame me for that.
From time to time I do encounter the super newb with like 30 CP's and probably not even wearing two sets and I do hit him for 10k damage or so. I feel bad for the guy but he's another body on that flag alongside 3 other better people so he has to go down with the ship.
Bottom line is that the skill is fine, decent damage, more of a filler and sometimes finisher for NB, not my fault you didn't go invisible sooner...
5
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DanielWinterborn✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Yours are only hitting for 5k? Lol
Are you on a stam warden? Or glass cannon?
Also never said mine hit for 5k + depends on the target hit, don't you think?0 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why was another thread about this needed?Hoping for more playable races.
I just want werewolf to be viable in endgame PvE T.T (which not allowed according to PTS update 50)0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Best to wait until patch goes live to complain . Tankyness of warden being bigger issue with a undodgeable attack may be less a problem if we can burst them down after .1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thats OK, but when you get 2+ wardens spamming bird you are a little *** in med. My DK uses reflective as its defense because block is unfun and perpetually nerfed to ***. And it goes through it for reasons unknown, but wardeen shield absorbs it.
The unique part of bird is its delay. It shouldn't also be the spammable set equivalent of proc set in that it takes no skill.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭DanielWinterborn wrote: »You must be really bad at PvP.
I'm a warden and I only use 1 cliff racer in my combo to make it land all at the same time. There is no animation canceling, it takes a while to get to the target so you can see it. I encountered the bird spammer as well but it doesn't really hurt me at all, it's just damage that I can block, cancel with my shields with no dot or debuff or anything.
Let's say that you can get hit with 5k crits from really good players but you can simply cancel at least two of them with your shield if you're a mage, or simply block them on stamina. Use your surrounding terrain to block your enemy's view and he can't use them.
If you do get more than 5k hits then you should tank your build up a bit, use your CP's to do that and impen your gear.
I sometimes find myself needing to spam two or 3 of them as well but only against NB who we know.... Dodge roll, vanish. Screaming racer can't be dodged but invisible enemies can't be hit so you can't blame me for that.
From time to time I do encounter the super newb with like 30 CP's and probably not even wearing two sets and I do hit him for 10k damage or so. I feel bad for the guy but he's another body on that flag alongside 3 other better people so he has to go down with the ship.
Bottom line is that the skill is fine, decent damage, more of a filler and sometimes finisher for NB, not my fault you didn't go invisible sooner...
my warden i hit hit 3 racers after i use coconut and force pulse all in a sec
Main character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thats OK, but when you get 2+ wardens spamming bird you are a little *** in med. My DK uses reflective as its defense because block is unfun and perpetually nerfed to ***. And it goes through it for reasons unknown, but wardeen shield absorbs it.
The unique part of bird is its delay. It shouldn't also be the spammable set equivalent of proc set in that it takes no skill.
I guess I will remember to never group up with another warden using birds then.
*adds that to the list of things never to do in PVP so I don't annoy anyone else*1 -
DanielWinterborn✭✭✭Thats OK, but when you get 2+ wardens spamming bird you are a little *** in med. My DK uses reflective as its defense because block is unfun and perpetually nerfed to ***. And it goes through it for reasons unknown, but wardeen shield absorbs it.
The unique part of bird is its delay. It shouldn't also be the spammable set equivalent of proc set in that it takes no skill.
So there's a skill in game that hurts you, guess what, there should be more. Everything has to die at some point including your DK. You get more people giving you the bird, I get that sucks but how does it feel to another to be leaped by more than one DK? You can't deflect the birds, that's not possible, they either get squashed in a shield and die or they hit you, think about a bird vs windshield.2 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭Oh thanks god, Daniel said warden is ok - we can all relax now...
PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq5 -
DanielWinterborn✭✭✭Valera Progib wrote: »Oh thanks god, Daniel said warden is ok - we can all relax now...
Certainly better than the sorc, that two shots light attack+crystal frag. You know the one.1 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Valera Progib wrote: »Oh thanks god, Daniel said warden is ok - we can all relax now...
xDPC EU0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thats OK, but when you get 2+ wardens spamming bird you are a little *** in med. My DK uses reflective as its defense because block is unfun and perpetually nerfed to ***. And it goes through it for reasons unknown, but wardeen shield absorbs it.
The unique part of bird is its delay. It shouldn't also be the spammable set equivalent of proc set in that it takes no skill.
The heal ultimate might as well be a glorified vigor now it was nerfed so badly, seriously, dont even start with that nonsense.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seriously, it seems like people wont be happy till warden is useless in pve and pvp completely because they dont want to fork over some money for morrowind.2 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seriously, it seems like people wont be happy till warden is useless in pve and pvp completely because they dont want to fork over some money for morrowind.
It's the PVP nerfing mentality, people die from it and come here to demand nerfs, no matter what it isHoping for more playable races.
I just want werewolf to be viable in endgame PvE T.T (which not allowed according to PTS update 50)2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DanielWinterborn wrote: »You must be really bad at PvP.
[...]
Let's say that you can get hit with 5k crits
[...]
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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People honestly only look at one aspect of it. Every single class has a meta build. And every single meta build is uber strong. So by this logic we should nerf everything, and then everything again, and then everything again. so forth.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You make it yourself a bit easy when you say "pvp mentality is demanding nerfs". That's far from the truth. Sure, some people tend to play only one class and want everyone else to be weaker, but many (I'd like to go as far and say even most) of the experienced and good PvP'ers play multiple classes. And if something stands out, far above the others, then I think it's okay to call for a change.
Stam Wardens are in a really good place as far as PvP goes. I read several posts ranking them #1 PvP class. Yes, Wardens in general suck balls in PvE but that is a different topic. And making Birds dodgeable wouldn't hurt a single PvE build tho.
An ability, even more so a spammable DPS ability, that ignores the main defense form of Medium Armor, is the reason why MA is far behind HA.
Not to drift into whataboutism, but how would you comment an ability that is
-spammable
-high damage
-ranged
-goes through wards
-and/or goes through block
-and/or cuts off healing
Yep, imagine a healplar that can deal 5-8k ranged oblivion dmg on spam. Would be great for every ward user. Would be balanced because they can still LoS, block, heal, run away, right?Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on January 13, 2018 7:01PM1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »You make it yourself a bit easy when you say "pvp mentality is demanding nerfs". That's far from the truth. Sure, some people tend to play only one class and want everyone else to be weaker, but many (I'd like to go as far and say even most) of the experienced and good PvP'ers play multiple classes. And if something stands out, far above the others, then I think it's okay to call for a change.
Stam Wardens are in a really good place as far as PvP goes. I read several posts ranking them #1 PvP class. Yes, Wardens in general suck balls in PvE but that is a different topic. And making Birds dodgeable wouldn't hurt a single PvE build tho.
An ability, even more so a spammable DPS ability, that ignores the main defense form of Medium Armor, is the reason why MA is far behind HA.
Not to drift into whataboutism, but how would you comment an ability that is
-spammable
-high damage
-ranged
-goes through wards
-and/or goes through block
-and/or cuts off healing
Yep, imagine a healplar that can deal 5-8k ranged oblivion dmg on spam. Would be great for every ward user. Would be balanced because they can still LoS, block, heal, run away, right?
Cliffracer doesnt go through block, nor does it cut off healing, nor does it go through wards.....and its medium damage.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »You make it yourself a bit easy when you say "pvp mentality is demanding nerfs". That's far from the truth. Sure, some people tend to play only one class and want everyone else to be weaker, but many (I'd like to go as far and say even most) of the experienced and good PvP'ers play multiple classes. And if something stands out, far above the others, then I think it's okay to call for a change.
Stam Wardens are in a really good place as far as PvP goes. I read several posts ranking them #1 PvP class. Yes, Wardens in general suck balls in PvE but that is a different topic. And making Birds dodgeable wouldn't hurt a single PvE build tho.
An ability, even more so a spammable DPS ability, that ignores the main defense form of Medium Armor, is the reason why MA is far behind HA.
Not to drift into whataboutism, but how would you comment an ability that is
-spammable
-high damage
-ranged
-goes through wards
-and/or goes through block
-and/or cuts off healing
Yep, imagine a healplar that can deal 5-8k ranged oblivion dmg on spam. Would be great for every ward user. Would be balanced because they can still LoS, block, heal, run away, right?
Cliffracer doesnt go through block, nor does it cut off healing, nor does it go through wards.....and its medium damage.
It would if it ignored other build's respective defensive mechanics, and it's high damage for a spammable.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Admittedly I haven't PvP'd for a while, but last I did, I was getting hit with 8-10k cliffracers in no CP. Meanwhile, my frag that hits for approx the same in there I can't even cast without a proc, not to mention how easy it is to avoid. While obviously that's not always the scenario, I'm still failing to see why cliffracers need to be undodgeable while other skills offering similar-ish damage and even having a cast time such as Frags and Dark Flare are dodgeable.1 -
Yubarius✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Best to wait until patch goes live to complain . Tankyness of warden being bigger issue with a undodgeable attack may be less a problem if we can burst them down after .
Agreed. I am totally fine with Wardens having the best burst in the game aside from NB, but they should have the same balance that a NB has... which is the lack of tankiness. My biggest problem with warden is that they can take such insane amounts of damage and healing while ALSO having the best burst combo. Just look at what @Velukodi can do on his stam warden, pretty sure he's only ever lost a few duels, won 2 tourneys in a row, and rocks it in open world. Warden really needs a complete rebalance but they will never do that because it is the only class you have to pay for, so why not make it OP to rake in more cash. Am I getting you right @ZOS?- Yubarius - Magicka NB - Flawless Conqueror
- YubariusX - Magicka Warden - Flawless Conqueror
- Lord Yubarius - Stamina Sorc - Stormproof - Centurion
- 'Rubick the Grand Magus - Magicka Sorc
- Fair Child Tank - Stamina DK
- Jaruko - Magicka Templar
- Selthyn Bavailo - Mag DK
- Bandit-The-Great - Stam Temp
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JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »You make it yourself a bit easy when you say "pvp mentality is demanding nerfs". That's far from the truth. Sure, some people tend to play only one class and want everyone else to be weaker, but many (I'd like to go as far and say even most) of the experienced and good PvP'ers play multiple classes. And if something stands out, far above the others, then I think it's okay to call for a change.
Stam Wardens are in a really good place as far as PvP goes. I read several posts ranking them #1 PvP class. Yes, Wardens in general suck balls in PvE but that is a different topic. And making Birds dodgeable wouldn't hurt a single PvE build tho.
An ability, even more so a spammable DPS ability, that ignores the main defense form of Medium Armor, is the reason why MA is far behind HA.
Not to drift into whataboutism, but how would you comment an ability that is
-spammable
-high damage
-ranged
-goes through wards
-and/or goes through block
-and/or cuts off healing
Yep, imagine a healplar that can deal 5-8k ranged oblivion dmg on spam. Would be great for every ward user. Would be balanced because they can still LoS, block, heal, run away, right?
Cliffracer doesnt go through block, nor does it cut off healing, nor does it go through wards.....and its medium damage.
It would if it ignored other build's respective defensive mechanics, and it's high damage for a spammable.
same with anything??1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO PVP is more like Rock, Paper, Scissors than a perfectly balanced, everyone can fight everyone on equal footing type of game.
Just because someone's build is the rock to your scissors doesn't mean the problem is with them. Either adjust your build to become more like paper to beat the rock or accept that your scissors loses to a well-played rock most of the time. And remember that the rock is vulnerable to paper even though you don't see it because you aren't playing paper. ZOS won't intervene unless everyone starts playing rock because its "OP".
If someone's build seems OP no matter what the situation, you are looking at a good player inside of a good build, who is probably going to wreck you no matter build they bring to the fight.
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Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DanielWinterborn wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Yours are only hitting for 5k? Lol
Are you on a stam warden? Or glass cannon?
Also never said mine hit for 5k + depends on the target hit, don't you think?
Then you very well know they hit for way more than 5k even on people stacking impen. I both play on a warden and play against them. The skill is definitely over-performing but I am wary to call for a nerf because Wardens are in a terrible spot for PvE so making them worse In PvP by nerfing this skill would leave the class overall in a bad spot. The class needs a lot of work to improve its DPS in PvE while not making it any stronger in PvP as it is already the BiS class in the eyes of many.
However while I'm still unsure about calling for a nerf for this specific ability, to pretend it's not over-performing and saying it only hits for 5k on most targets is wrong and short-sighted0
