Alcast wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

To explain this, Im talking about News posts
Like this one: https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/26285?utm_source=SocialMedia&utm_medium=bitly
The first image you see, there it is again, a group with a tank, mage, dual wielder and a RANGER! A RANGER!

I was trying to play ranged since I started this game and you cant be a ranger here, becouse the damage is low and nobody wants you in the party because of that. If you want to be atleast close to "normal" DPS, you have to be gear to maximum and click&click so much it hurts your finger and even after that, your damage is "normal". I dont want bow to be secondary weapon, or starter weapon. I want to have bow as main and be ranged only ... like mages. (And no I dont wanna hear that it would be OP ... other MMOs have ranged only too and I dont see they would have a problem there)

I am pissed how Zeni makes these images like "this is the right group" yet you cant, becouse... you just cant.

You can easily complete all vet dungeons with bow/bow build. Bow/Bow builds do decent damage given you know what you are doing.

^

Magdalina wrote: »

(Breton hero is also an archer. BRETON, guys)

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Are you a slave to racial passives?

While I agree with the majority, I think the OP addressed some bigger problem than just "I cant playz archerz", which is that combat in ESO is poorly implemented due to the fact that you can't play (this is just an example!) pure warrior build without any weird magical fluffs and puffs effectively. I tried pure warrior using only weapon skills and I have to say it kinda sucks.
But anyway, that's how this game is and using full spectrum of skills you can make bow/bow build work as my guildmate proved officers wrong with his warden bow/bow character.

DDuke wrote: »

The OP is absolutely right, and I don't know why you people are trying to argue with facts.

Yes, you can play a bow build & clear all content in game. Sure.

But that's not the problem, the problem is that you're bringing your group down by doing so. By not playing the optimal build.


In an ideal world, a bow main bar build would do same DPS as a melee main bar build (I'm not talking about 20-30k that's almost achievable with light attacks alone, I mean 50-60k+) & it wouldn't play in melee range (because that's bloody *** for a bow build).

PvP... don't get me started. You don't even have a single CC you can use efficiently on 4/5 classes as stamina ranged build, while ranged magicka builds have multiple options for that.


Bow builds need a lot of help, for both PvP & PvE. Not to make them "viable" (which they are, to an extent), but to bring them in line with other builds in terms of competitiveness.

Yeah, but most people here are like "I dont play WoW becouse thats mainstream and ESO is superb becouse only intelectuals like me play it".
You cant talk with these people. They will throw *** at you and call you "troll".

Out of curiosity, how viable is running a 2-hander or dual wielding on both bars?

The % difference in DPS between DW/Bow and Bow/Bow is astounding when maelsrom and master weapons are factored out.

Thomosus wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

ummm every stam DPS uses a bow back bar and walks around with it out for the speed passive...

Yeah and as I wrote, I dont want bow as secondary or starter.

that's fine lol but that's not what the picture shows. so you're wrong, they are not lying, thats how we play.

Every time I see these I can't this or I can't that I giggle. I make a point of healing with a Warden or Nightblade, tanking with a Nightblade or Warden, DPS with a bow/bow Warden or Nightblade and so on. All of these I have successfully run Vet DLC and afterwords the group comments that they didn't think it would work. As many have already mentioned until Vet Trials there are many configurations that can be successful with a little creative thinking and a lot of hard work. (My first ICPv on Warden healer was a challenge)

Don't be crushed by what you perceive that you can't do. Be challenged to prove wrong and succeed at what the lazy have said can't be done.

Thomosus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

The OP is absolutely right, and I don't know why you people are trying to argue with facts.

Yes, you can play a bow build & clear all content in game. Sure.

But that's not the problem, the problem is that you're bringing your group down by doing so. By not playing the optimal build.


In an ideal world, a bow main bar build would do same DPS as a melee main bar build (I'm not talking about 20-30k that's almost achievable with light attacks alone, I mean 50-60k+) & it wouldn't play in melee range (because that's bloody *** for a bow build).

PvP... don't get me started. You don't even have a single CC you can use efficiently on 4/5 classes as stamina ranged build, while ranged magicka builds have multiple options for that.


Bow builds need a lot of help, for both PvP & PvE. Not to make them "viable" (which they are, to an extent), but to bring them in line with other builds in terms of competitiveness.

Yeah, but most people here are like "I dont play WoW becouse thats mainstream and ESO is superb becouse only intelectuals like me play it".
You cant talk with these people. They will throw *** at you and call you "troll".

Actually, it seems like you are the one being difficult.
After re-reading most of this thread, there are a lot of responses trying to be help full, but you only say "I don't want to do that", but say nothing about your build except you don't want to lose your "Long Shot Passive".
If you are serious about a viable bow build, you have to look at these areas of your build and how you have them set up.
Do you want to do Solo PvE? Group PvE? PvP?
What gear are you running? Example: 5 pc Marksman gives 8% increase to all bow ability.
How are your CP points spread out?
Are all your ability points in stam?
What type of bow are you using? What enchants and traits? Poison+Nirn?
What Mundas stone do you use?
What skill rotation do you have set up?

All this is what you need to look at. Bow builds are doable. And there are lots of folks here that will help you "If you let them!"

FYI: Saw in another thread a Templar Bow/Bow build with 7100+ Dmg. So yes, it can be done.
Good luck.

You did a horrible job trying to make a point OP. Someone carrying a bow in a screenshot does not make them a ranger or bow only user. Your complaints might not be horrible, though they ignore some of the balance reasons you can't just have super powerful archers running around everywhere (long discussion, not going to get into it) but it creates a much bigger problem than having a couple of classes be able to have ranged magicka classes (one of those classes is usually argued as the strongest in game in some situations and arguably needs more balancing). But trying to use that picture as an example of 'lying' makes your post the one that comes off dishonest and ruins your whole point.

All my stam characters have bows, if you take a screen shot while they are holding the bow, that does not make them a ranger.

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

The OP is absolutely right, and I don't know why you people are trying to argue with facts.

Yes, you can play a bow build & clear all content in game. Sure.

But that's not the problem, the problem is that you're bringing your group down by doing so. By not playing the optimal build.


In an ideal world, a bow main bar build would do same DPS as a melee main bar build (I'm not talking about 20-30k that's almost achievable with light attacks alone, I mean 50-60k+) & it wouldn't play in melee range (because that's bloody *** for a bow build).

PvP... don't get me started. You don't even have a single CC you can use efficiently on 4/5 classes as stamina ranged build, while ranged magicka builds have multiple options for that.


Bow builds need a lot of help, for both PvP & PvE. Not to make them "viable" (which they are, to an extent), but to bring them in line with other builds in terms of competitiveness.

Yeah, but most people here are like "I dont play WoW becouse thats mainstream and ESO is superb becouse only intelectuals like me play it".
You cant talk with these people. They will throw *** at you and call you "troll".

Actually, it seems like you are the one being difficult.
After re-reading most of this thread, there are a lot of responses trying to be help full, but you only say "I don't want to do that", but say nothing about your build except you don't want to lose your "Long Shot Passive".
If you are serious about a viable bow build, you have to look at these areas of your build and how you have them set up.
Do you want to do Solo PvE? Group PvE? PvP?
What gear are you running? Example: 5 pc Marksman gives 8% increase to all bow ability.
How are your CP points spread out?
Are all your ability points in stam?
What type of bow are you using? What enchants and traits? Poison+Nirn?
What Mundas stone do you use?
What skill rotation do you have set up?

All this is what you need to look at. Bow builds are doable. And there are lots of folks here that will help you "If you let them!"

FYI: Saw in another thread a Templar Bow/Bow build with 7100+ Dmg. So yes, it can be done.
Good luck.

It doesnt matter what kind of bow play I want. The only important here it should be MAIN bow. And if you need max gear and stats etc u mention to be standart DPS, then its wrong. And I dont wanna play some templar od DK, thats the point. Nightblade should be typical rogue/ranger type.

Rosveen wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how viable is running a 2-hander or dual wielding on both bars?

and

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

The % difference in DPS between DW/Bow and Bow/Bow is astounding when maelsrom and master weapons are factored out.

yeah, in general i have yet to see folks claiming that its a problem that DW and 2h "have" to use other weapons on their second bars to get strongest DPS potential. It seems it not Ok for bow to be a weapon that has to do that though.

To me, occupying the spot of being in the "two highest stam damage builds" (pvp or pve) abnd being a very indispensable part of any mostly high damage stamina build is not enough, they also have to have an exclusive top notch slot as well...

Cue the "its not about bow on both bars its about "main" or "ranged style" retorts.

witchdoctor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

To me, occupying the spot of being in the "two highest stam damage builds" (pvp or pve) abnd being a very indispensable part of any mostly high damage stamina build is not enough, they also have to have an exclusive top notch slot as well...

xaraan wrote: »

... though they ignore some of the balance reasons you can't just have super powerful archers running around everywhere ...

A few get their wish and bow becomes just as strong at range as DW is at melee.

ZOS makes corresponding change to enemies damage output, and factors in terrain, etc., and these players get rekd.

Same people come to forums and complain about how OP ranged NPCs and bosses are (let alone the new ranged ganking meta in PVP).

Eh, it was never about DW. There is already ranged spec on magicka side, that has shields, does better single target and does much much much better AoE while some of them being sole supplies or very important group effects all while using two same weapons on both bars as would bow do, being at range (as mentioned) as would bow be and being disadvantaged by some things as bow is (like missing set piece, having sustain problems or not having good heavy attacks as DW).

If you get less survivability than DW specs with blade cloak and ranged specs with shield, while doing less damage than both of them and offering also no group support as trade off, it is pretty obvious there is some error in balance. Unless it is (as it looks like) undesirable from devs point of view to give bow any advantage over these 2 specs which would make it interesting and even worth it to bring for example at least 1 bow build in 12 man content.