Bot Farmers Are Ignored by ZoS

Rittings · January 2018

I tried to do the skill point quest in Glenumbra (Camlorn) earlier - couldn't complete it because couldn't find a werewolf staying alive long enough to turn them into a human. They are absolutely ruining the game. ZoS, you gotta have a better plan. Get some GMs out there issuing instant temp bans. We all know their favourite spots to farm for scraps - surely you know them too? If not, start giving power to dedicated players that you can trust. I'm PS4 NA server and more than happy to help... but you MUST do something. This is now gamebreaking.

[Edited for title]

JungleBoot · January 2018

What? The Bots have returned? Well, it will take them a while to do anything about it since they need to determine the exploit.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

It's not that they are ignored, but rather that ZoS refuses to hire more people to act as permanent gamemasters to enforce the rules on all platforms. This is the only way they can curb the bot epidemic because at this point the gold farmers are getting new bot trains set up faster then ZoS cam ban them. We need more visible gamemasters on all platforms.

Rittings · January 2018

On the PS4 NA Server, today I spotted bots in the following locations...

Glenumbra, Camlorn (2 different instance, one of them all the psn's began with "Lancer" with letters and numbers after them. The ring leader was a CP594 with about 20 bots all similarly named.

Bangkorai killing bears as you take the passage from north to south Bangkorai

Auridon killing bears and wolves (roughly centre of map)

Betnikh killing wolves

Rivenspire killing wolves in the derelict castle to the east of Shornhelm (by the Public Dungeon)

I would estimate approximately 100 bots spotted and reported in a short period of time. We need GMs badly - and they need to investigate further. It might be useful to make DLC animals drop double the rate of leather compared to the normal zones. That would force the bots to either spend some of their cash constantly (which I doubt they'd do) or enable genuine players the ability to drive their prices down even further, thus making it worthless for the bots to bother...

Tieberion · January 2018

Yeah paid for with stolen credit cards or cards they charge back unless their leveling the account to sell.

swippy · January 2018

Rittings wrote: »

start giving power to dedicated players that you can trust. I'm PS4 NA server and more than happy to help...

unless they said they're hiring janitors; when your best suggestion for fixing a problem is to give your own self more power... that's just not how fixes generally work.

Armatesz · January 2018

Yeah I think something has to be done about the bots, last event we had I saw people not able to do one of the quests because there was over 100 bots farming wolves. Whole area was so laggy that time.

swippy · January 2018

Getern wrote: »

Why would Zenimax deny their additional income? Are u aware that every bot has ESO+ and pays it every month just for craftbag? The more bots around, the bigger the income.

what i see on XB/NA is several farmbots surrounding what's probably the only Plus account, which would explain why they regularly go and trade with the central one. that's standard for leather and mudcrab farming, and is not the one-income-source-per-automated-farmer situation that might be considered overlookable.

Rittings · January 2018

Yeah, the bot farmers are banned regularly - and certainly do NOT have eso+ accounts, or else they'd be in Old Orsinium by now...

I do think increasing the drop rates from DLC areas would be a solid step for ZoS. They'd encourage more ESO+ subscriptions from solid players, and they'd also give genuine players an easier farming method, reducing the amount of trade bots can do.

I'd also investigate the main accounts of these bot farmers and see who they regularly trade with. Start issuing perma-bans on people who use bot farmers to supply them. A lot of the big traders we see in Belkarth etc are using bot farmers to supply their stocks. Cut them off at the source.

I hate that the bots are ruining the game though. Lag in areas they farm. making it impossible to complete missions because they are killing NPCs so fast. Even to the point where ZoS are nerfing things like the sorc pets (until morphed, the pets now do NOTHING because farmers love them). Punishing actual players is a backwards step.

When I say I'll offer to help, I mean that sincerely. I'd happily sit and report everyone of them (and I regularly do, as does my wife) - but action needs to be instant. I'll also help brainstorm, like here, ideas for getting them out of our game.

Cpt_Teemo · January 2018

Not just bots but also exploited currency almost every day

zyk · January 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

It's not that they are ignored, but rather that ZoS refuses to hire more people to act as permanent gamemasters to enforce the rules on all platforms. This is the only way they can curb the bot epidemic because at this point the gold farmers are getting new bot trains set up faster then ZoS cam ban them. We need more visible gamemasters on all platforms.

You don't need more staff to combat basic bots. The problem can be largely mitigated with proper tools -- at client, server and customer service levels.

If ZOS was putting a real effort into combating bots, we wouldn't see the obvious, rudimentary bots we do. They just don't care enough to invest more into cheat prevention. They probably presume their core audience is oblivious to the impact and therefore it is a low priority to them.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

zyk wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

It's not that they are ignored, but rather that ZoS refuses to hire more people to act as permanent gamemasters to enforce the rules on all platforms. This is the only way they can curb the bot epidemic because at this point the gold farmers are getting new bot trains set up faster then ZoS cam ban them. We need more visible gamemasters on all platforms.

You don't need more staff to combat basic bots. The problem can be largely mitigated with proper tools -- at client, server and customer service levels.

If ZOS was putting a real effort into combating bots, we wouldn't see the obvious, rudimentary bots we do. They just don't care enough to invest more into cheat prevention. They probably presume their core audience is oblivious to the impact and therefore it is a low priority to them.

So what are you suggesting? Some sort of system that recognizes bots as a bot when they sign on? You have offered alot of really vague suggestions here. ZoS needs more staff for just about every aspect of this game right now. Bugs go unfixed for months, bot-hot-spots are rampant when all it would take is a gamemaster patrolling the popular spots once a day, all of these things need more time spent on them. Even if had "cheat prevention" (idk what that even means) they would need to dedicate employee time to implementing that which they clearly don't have much of.

Malmai · January 2018

Rittings wrote: »

I tried to do the skill point quest in Glenumbra (Camlorn) earlier - couldn't complete it because couldn't find a werewolf staying alive long enough to turn them into a human. They are absolutely ruining the game. ZoS, you gotta have a better plan. Get some GMs out there issuing instant temp bans. We all know their favourite spots to farm for scraps - surely you know them too? If not, start giving power to dedicated players that you can trust. I'm PS4 NA server and more than happy to help... but you MUST do something. This is now gamebreaking.

They need money (accounts, subs...) But if they gonna do something they will nerf scraps. This is how they roll...

zyk · January 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

So what are you suggesting? Some sort of system that recognizes bots as a bot when they sign on? You have offered alot of really vague suggestions here. ZoS needs more staff for just about every aspect of this game right now. Bugs go unfixed for months, bot-hot-spots are rampant when all it would take is a gamemaster patrolling the popular spots once a day, all of these things need more time spent on them. Even if had "cheat prevention" (idk what that even means) they would need to dedicate employee time to implementing that which they clearly don't have much of.

These aren't new problems to gaming. There are all kinds of solutions that ZOS doesn't use.

For example, they can improve client security to better detect the programs used for botting. The same kind of tools can be used to mitigate other forms of cheating such as memory hacking.

At a server level, ZOS can put checks for certain kinds of player activities. There are ways to do this without significant performance hits. The obvious bot trains players observe should be easy for ZOS servers to detect.

At a customer service level, ZOS can create tools that give CSRs fast access to the details they need to quickly adjudicate cases of potential cheating. While we don't know what kind of tools CSRs have, the kinds of social engineering I've seen discussed suggest they aren't very good.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

zyk wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

So what are you suggesting? Some sort of system that recognizes bots as a bot when they sign on? You have offered alot of really vague suggestions here. ZoS needs more staff for just about every aspect of this game right now. Bugs go unfixed for months, bot-hot-spots are rampant when all it would take is a gamemaster patrolling the popular spots once a day, all of these things need more time spent on them. Even if had "cheat prevention" (idk what that even means) they would need to dedicate employee time to implementing that which they clearly don't have much of.

These aren't new problems to gaming. There are all kinds of solutions that ZOS doesn't use.

For example, they can improve client security to better detect the programs used for botting. The same kind of tools can be used to mitigate other forms of cheating such as memory hacking.

At a server level, ZOS can put checks for certain kinds of player activities. There are ways to do this without significant performance hits. The obvious bot trains players observe should be easy for ZOS servers to detect.

At a customer service level, ZOS can create tools that give CSRs fast access to the details they need to quickly adjudicate cases of potential cheating. While we don't know what kind of tools CSRs have, the kinds of social engineering I've seen discussed suggest they aren't very good.

Everything that you just mentioned would require them to hire more employees to implement. There is 0 chance they have the time to do any of that with current staff numbers when we see bugs go unfixed for months. They just don't have the hours.

zyk · January 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Everything that you just mentioned would require them to hire more employees to implement. There is 0 chance they have the time to do any of that with current staff numbers when we see bugs go unfixed for months. They just don't have the hours.

That's not necessarily true at all. ZOS -- and in the larger picture, Zenimax -- already has the technical expertise to implement all of these things. They simply choose to allocate their programming resources elsewhere.

Regardless, investing in the proper technology is the true solution, not hiring more CSRs.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

zyk wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Everything that you just mentioned would require them to hire more employees to implement. There is 0 chance they have the time to do any of that with current staff numbers when we see bugs go unfixed for months. They just don't have the hours.

That's not necessarily true at all. ZOS -- and in the larger picture, Zenimax -- already has the technical expertise to implement all of these things. They simply choose to allocate their programming resources elsewhere.

Regardless, investing in the proper technology is the true solution, not hiring more CSRs.

YO come on man "they simply choose to allocate their programming resources elsewhere"
Which means they don't have enough resources or people to do all the stuff they currently are doing (stuff they obviously feel they need to do) AND make all of these infrastructure and server upgrades. You're literally making my argument for me then telling me I'm wrong.

zyk · January 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Everything that you just mentioned would require them to hire more employees to implement. There is 0 chance they have the time to do any of that with current staff numbers when we see bugs go unfixed for months. They just don't have the hours.

That's not necessarily true at all. ZOS -- and in the larger picture, Zenimax -- already has the technical expertise to implement all of these things. They simply choose to allocate their programming resources elsewhere.

Regardless, investing in the proper technology is the true solution, not hiring more CSRs.

YO come on man "they simply choose to allocate their programming resources elsewhere"
Which means they don't have enough resources or people to do all the stuff they currently are doing (stuff they obviously feel they need to do) AND make all of these infrastructure and server upgrades. You're literally making my argument for me then telling me I'm wrong.

Hardly. Your point was, "It's not that they are ignored, but rather that ZoS refuses to hire more people to act as permanent gamemasters to enforce the rules on all platforms. "

GMs are low wage CSRs (but high cost because managing people is expensive) that are usually outsourced. That is the least efficient and least effective way to deal with the problem when there are already obvious technical solutions that have not been implemented.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

zyk wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Everything that you just mentioned would require them to hire more employees to implement. There is 0 chance they have the time to do any of that with current staff numbers when we see bugs go unfixed for months. They just don't have the hours.

That's not necessarily true at all. ZOS -- and in the larger picture, Zenimax -- already has the technical expertise to implement all of these things. They simply choose to allocate their programming resources elsewhere.

Regardless, investing in the proper technology is the true solution, not hiring more CSRs.

YO come on man "they simply choose to allocate their programming resources elsewhere"
Which means they don't have enough resources or people to do all the stuff they currently are doing (stuff they obviously feel they need to do) AND make all of these infrastructure and server upgrades. You're literally making my argument for me then telling me I'm wrong.

Hardly. Your point was, "It's not that they are ignored, but rather that ZoS refuses to hire more people to act as permanent gamemasters to enforce the rules on all platforms. "

GMs are low wage CSRs (but high cost because managing people is expensive) that are usually outsourced. That is the least efficient and least effective way to deal with the problem when there are already obvious technical solutions that have not been implemented.

Yes I said that and then after you said they needed to upgrade their infrastructure I said they would need more people to do that too. You're still only focusing on my original argument which you bolded without even taking in to consideration what we have been talking about since then. I literally said "all the solutions you suggested would require more workers to implement, NOT GAMEMASTERS, and you still think I'm talking about CSRs? I'm responding to your point that they need to reallocate their programming resources which they wouldn't be able to do without losing key functions to the game. If you want all those infrastructure and programming changes they need to hire more coders and programmers etc. I proved you wrong and you then bolded my original argument from many posts ago trying to claim that is what I am currently arguing when we moved past that already when you shot that down and we now are discussing your proposed solution.

Please try to keep up.

Ermiq · January 2018

I did misread the topic as "FAT BOSMERS ARE IGNORED BY ZOS" Oh my...

Neyane · January 2018

I saw some bots farming mudcrabs in Alik'r Desert the other day, a whole bunch of sorcerers shooting in different directions and then each of them will take turns going into lightning form and grabbing the rawhide from the crabs. They also hang out in other places too, I regularly check these places and they are still there... All of the bots have gibberish names, which leads me to believe even if one gets banned, a new one will replace it almost instantly.

Motherball · January 2018

Would u rather have bots or ZOS charging money for gold? Thats the only thing that will stop them besides a lack of demand for gold.

Rittings · January 2018

Malmai wrote: »

They need money (accounts, subs...) But if they gonna do something they will nerf scraps. This is how they roll...

They don't need eso+ accounts, and they only need one psn+ account per playstation, and presumably, they don't use that account to farm with - same for XBOX too.

It's becoming pandemic out there right now. It's not just one set of people either, there are now multiple companies selling gold and therefore multiple bot farming groups.

If ZoS don't react now, they'll lose control of the game forever. It's causing lag, and preventing completion of quests - that alone should be enough for them to act - on top of that, these guys are selling gold for cash to players meaning those players are FAR less likely to spend money on crowns. ZoS are losing out as much as we are, they just don't see it.

Cpt_Teemo · January 2018

Rittings wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

They need money (accounts, subs...) But if they gonna do something they will nerf scraps. This is how they roll...

They don't need eso+ accounts, and they only need one psn+ account per playstation, and presumably, they don't use that account to farm with - same for XBOX too.

It's becoming pandemic out there right now. It's not just one set of people either, there are now multiple companies selling gold and therefore multiple bot farming groups.

If ZoS don't react now, they'll lose control of the game forever. It's causing lag, and preventing completion of quests - that alone should be enough for them to act - on top of that, these guys are selling gold for cash to players meaning those players are FAR less likely to spend money on crowns. ZoS are losing out as much as we are, they just don't see it.

Also who needs to buy anything from ZoS if they can get everything in game with exploited currency that isn't wiped up yet for the past 2 1/2 years

cool_frood88 · January 2018

Forgive my ignorance but how do you spot a bot?

Rittings · January 2018

transGemini wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but how do you spot a bot?

You don't spot one... you spot 10 of them. All sorcs, with pets. Al with a macro running the same moves in repetition. With lots of dead animals around them.

Here is another solution... have skeevers etc that respawn non-lootable for s short period - like when you kill a delve boss. Cool down.

OR... even better - have smaller creatures drop a lot less scraps. Make things like Mammoths drop a LOT more scraps. And make them even tougher to defeat

Watch them weak bots die as they don't shield up

No more bot farmers.

SisterGoat · January 2018

Every game I've played that puts in new systems to combat bots, the botters find their way around them in a week. One game made the game so restrictive that it was extremely uncomfortable for normal players, yet bots still somehow found ways around them. It's almost not even worth it to put in the effort to stop them.

Elsonso · January 2018

Bots are a simple solution. Just add CAPTCHA to the game and require the player to pass it to get loot from anything.

SisterGoat · January 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Bots are a simple solution. Just add CAPTCHA to the game and require the player to pass it to get loot from anything.

There are bot programs that know how to get around captcha now...

Saucy_Jack · January 2018

I guess this is what I don't get about the whole bot-farmer thing: bot-farmers, if the forums are any indication, are looked down upon by pretty much everyone. I see numerous threads saying that the bots should be banned; I don't believe I've ever seen a thread saying how much people just absolutely love bots and how ZOS should let them keep doing what they're doing.

With that said, the only purpose, it seems, to have a bot farming operation going on is so that said farmers can sell their farmed mats for gold, which is then sold to players online somewhere.

But again, if the forums and zone chats are any indication, the players are overwhelmingly against ESO becoming pay-to-win in any form; the players are overwhelmingly against even a hint of an inkling of an idea that gold would/should ever be sold in the crown store. I've literally never seen/heard/read any indication that either of those things are wanted by ESO players.

So if the players are against a PTW model, and are against gold being sold in the CS, then what market exactly are these bot-farmer gold-sellers capitalizing on?

Skullstachio · January 2018

Two options here

Put in a bot authentication proxy like some sites do to confirm if the account logging in is not a robot.
Enlist certain players in some elaborate scheme to die down the bot population completely over time by enlisting some "Console/PC Ambassadors to spend their time playing the game and sniffing out fake accounts and reporting the fake accounts to the dev team for technological inspection and forced removal as well as sending the statistics to the associated parties such as Sony and Microsoft to ensure they have a harder time returning.