Deep_01 wrote: »

I'd say stamDK is fine atm. Nothing over performing or underperforming. Noxious is already good from a PvE perspective. Your comments seems to be based PvP only.

It was a comment I made on a PvP thread and I forgot to mention it. SDK is fine in pve but terrible in pvp

Deep_01 wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Deep_01 wrote: »

I'd say stamDK is fine atm. Nothing over performing or underperforming. Noxious is already good from a PvE perspective. Your comments seems to be based PvP only.

It was a comment I made on a PvP thread and I forgot to mention it. SDK is fine in pve but terrible in pvp

Noxious is bad in PvP atm, yes, but you can pull it off on 1v1 already. Your suggestion of Reflecting plate does seem OP. GDB change will help a ton in PvP and PvE.

Standard change seems OP too, but I like the buff ally idea. However, AoE Major defile is already a wonderful debuff, so standard isn't fine as it is?

Passive changes are nice, elder dragon especially. DKs already have access to minor maim via choking talons. Wouldn't stam return be good ?

My aim was giving SDK an identity and a reason to get at least one of them in an organized small scaling group without making it op.

About noxious,people use it just for the fracture debuff (it hits for something like 300-500 per tick).
Wings may seems op but I had shimmering on my mind when thinking of buffing them but yeah,it may be too much snare removal+minor heroism.
The problem with the defile part of standard is that prior to morrowind it was an unique mechanics,but then we had currupting pollen. So it needs again something to make it feels special. A stun +defile+a minor buff to allies sounds good for a 175 ulti.
It's also true that chocking talons gives maim but the cost for a stamina dk is too high and also I felt that inhale is a skill that characterises well the dragonknight ,so a stamina morph would give the feel of playing a proper class and not a walking weapon skill line

I don't think DK needs any of this...

Lava Whip

• Molten Whip is now a Stamina Morph. Lash an Enemy with Molten Earth, dealing (x) Physical damage and another (x) Flame damage over 4 seconds. While slotted the Weapon and Spell damage of your other Ardent Flame abilities are increased.

Ash Cloud

• Eruption is now a Stamina Morph. Summon an eruption of scorching ash at the target location, dealing an initial (x) Flame Damage to nearby enemies and (y) Physical Damage every 1 second. Snares enemies.

Give StamDKs some more Class skills to use in PvE!

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Poison version of Standard of Might, Poison Whip and Poison Ash cloud

I don't think that will help the usefulness of stam dk in group. Those changes will only help pve and dk is already top dog there.

It's not supposed to be a buff, it's supposed to give Dragonknights more Class variety. We get 2 offensive class skill morphs. That's it. A Stamina Whip wouldn't hurt and a Poison or Physical Damage version of Ash Cloud would even be a bit buffy since it's an AoE DoT so you know people could use that in group PvE.

My Stam DK is an Argonian Poison Knight. I'd love to get a couple more effective poison/disease damage skills - one ground based AoE DoT, one direct instant damage - so that she didn't have to use a boring bow bar or any damage skills that aren't in keeping with her poison knight theme.

Change molten whip from fire damage to physical damage, give DK a class execute and revert the *** change of battle roar and helping hands and I'll be a happy camper.

Gothrock wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Night blade can shuffle since they can pull off medium and still have rally.

Nightblades cannot shuffle without medium armor

mikey_reach wrote: »

Stam dk have to choose between rally or foward because they only have vigor since green dragons blood is extremely situational

Or you can run medium armor and shuffle

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

At this point, everyone on my friends list,and PvP guilds, except @Arthg , left stamDk completely.

On my list they didn't, and still show very nice results at BGs, smallscale and duels.

But I understand, its hard to play when your main class is not OP anymore.

You do know how to read, but you don't know how to read whats actually meant.

in your first quote, whats meant here is that stamblade can wear medium and be fine with it. they do have the tools to force openings, stall fights, evade and retreat. sNb can capitalize on your mistakes, and they can get out easy once they do a mistake. sDk does not have those, and dizzy swing is a very bad spammable against high tier players. Its a weakness. So you either land that dizzy swing, or you die a horrible death on a 2h main sDk build.

Which means playing a sDK in medium armor bow/2h, like I used to do, will be 2 or even 3 times harder than just playing a stamblade, because you do not have a cloak, you do not have fear, you do not have a fast strong spammable. You don't have an easy ''save me'' button.

I can't stress this enough people tell how hard it is to play a stamblade. Yet the same people often disrespect aggressive sDks/sSorcs who actually show a much bigger skill and courage. I honestly think the average stamblade credits himself too much.

I'm watching duel tournaments regularly and not even once in 2017 I saw a single stamDK have any success, and I only saw 2 or 3 actually participating with a sDK.

Now magDks on the other hand are very successful in BGs,smallscale and duels.
If you're mistaking mDk with sDk with your success claims, I don't think you are even worth my time.

Outside of scaling Green Dragons Blood with stamina which possibly could everything else on your list is in no way balanced and most of the blatantly over powered.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

Outside of scaling Green Dragons Blood with stamina which possibly could everything else on your list is in no way balanced and most of the blatantly over powered.

I don't agree with most of the ideas on OP.
But those wouldn't make sDk op, as much stronger tools already exist in stamden's arsenal. they do have an aoe frost ult with major protection, a reflect that costs nothing and gives major heroism, bird of prey that gives them major expedition, major endurance, minor berserk..

I can go on and list 10000 reasons why stamdens are ridicilous but lets get back on what we were about.



stamina GDB and a stamina whip would be more than enough for sDk to get back on his feet.
or zos could simply revert the igneous shield nerf so that its worth using again.
SnB sDK builds would not benefit from stamina whip, but they would use better healing for sure.

As for why stamina whip is important, Its because dizzy swing and flurry sucks, and both work better on a stamsorc.
Which forces Dk to SnB. Stamina whip could change that.

And the empowering chains needs to be reworked in a way to work similar to warden's bird of prey. (less of the generic gapcloser+damage and more of buffing the caster)
Its just an odd skill that doesnt really work.

And as a last suggestion,
Stamina wings, absorb instead of reflect, with minor heroism, BUT no snare removal.(That way Dk builds without SnB will still have minor heroism, Im trying to break the chains of SnB from sDk here.)
giving snare removal to wings would make heavy armor Dk mobility without sacrificing anything for it.

What I was trying to suggest was giving the stam dk a reason to be played smallscaling.
Only a stamina whip and a burst heal won't change nothing in group play. What SDK really lacks is some sort of group utility,I'm tired of people in my group asking me to log my stamden or stamsorc.

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

Outside of scaling Green Dragons Blood with stamina which possibly could everything else on your list is in no way balanced and most of the blatantly over powered.

I don't agree with most of the ideas on OP.
But those wouldn't make sDk op, as much stronger tools already exist in stamden's arsenal. they do have an aoe frost ult with major protection, a reflect that costs nothing and gives major heroism, bird of prey that gives them major expedition, major endurance, minor berserk..

I can go on and list 10000 reasons why stamdens are ridicilous but lets get back on what we were about.



stamina GDB and a stamina whip would be more than enough for sDk to get back on his feet.
or zos could simply revert the igneous shield nerf so that its worth using again.
SnB sDK builds would not benefit from stamina whip, but they would use better healing for sure.

As for why stamina whip is important, Its because dizzy swing and flurry sucks, and both work better on a stamsorc.
Which forces Dk to SnB. Stamina whip could change that.

And the empowering chains needs to be reworked in a way to work similar to warden's bird of prey. (less of the generic gapcloser+damage and more of buffing the caster)
Its just an odd skill that doesnt really work.

And as a last suggestion,
Stamina wings, absorb instead of reflect, with minor heroism, BUT no snare removal.(That way Dk builds without SnB will still have minor heroism, Im trying to break the chains of SnB from sDk here.)
giving snare removal to wings would make heavy armor Dk mobility without sacrificing anything for it.

What I was trying to suggest was giving the stam dk a reason to be played smallscaling.
Only a stamina whip and a burst heal won't change nothing in group play. What SDK really lacks is some sort of group utility,I'm tired of people in my group asking me to log my stamden or stamsorc.

so, you want me to explain, right.

first of all, 5 second delayed burst on noxious breath sucks. It will make it a *** version of sub assault, with shittier hitbox and more delay.

And your suggestions to passive spells will make mDk even more ridicilous than it already is.

Draw essence is another hold block & burst spell that is popular for mDks. Its a unique, fun ability BUT, it doesnt do anything special. Its yet another spell that shines on turtle DKs.

So sorry, your ideas wont make sDK a group hero. It will make the turtle turn into a hedgehog.
On group play I do wear medium on my sDk. and tank Dk is already in a fine spot so I make my suggestions taking medium armor DKs into consideration.

I don't want sDk to turn back into the meta ''go to'' class for everybody. I want this class to sit in a playable spot, as a DPS toon. If I had a poison variant of molten whip morph, that would open up soooo many possibilities, like dual wield armor of the truth, combined with tactician/exploiter passives, would make into a very fine stamDk DD build.

meanwhile I do agree with a stamina wings morph.
BUT, giving it both minor heroism and snare removal is too much.
That way there would be no reason for DKs to decide between medium 2h/heavy SnB playstyles, everybody would go heavy armor if wings had snare removal+minor heroism. It should be only minor heroism, for the sake of diversity and balance.

Another third effect might be added to compensate if it ends up too weak. but not snare removal, I originally suggested this exact same thing before, but then I realized how mobility makes medium unique ,and such a change would kill diversity for my own toon, I regretted even suggesting it after that.

Changing shifting/draw would affect MagDKs who use them. And noxious would affect PvE. Why not change corrosive to stun on use and lower cost to 150.

Wings: Reflect 3 projectiles PER PERSON. Fixed bugs, now reflects pulse and bird. (Lowers reflected against st so its not abused in duels, but makes it not rip instantly against multiple targets. Provides a functioning defense that ISN'T block.)

Reflective plate: Removes and grants immunity to snares for 6/8s (Allows stam to use rally and mag to not use mist) Keep it magicka to work similar to streak/shimmering/cloak as a utility. Would allow stam to be used better elsewhere.

Stonefist: What chain does, but functional Also sexy aesthetics and renamed to tectonics

Chains: A new stam ability that could possibly be a spammable.

GDB: If plate wings can't remove then next best choice.

Battle roar: Revert pls.

Revert igneous change, not even sure why it was done. Now it only does 2 (or maybe 3 if pre casted) ticks of vigor (iirc) and no rally to boost. Also some synergy with mist with Igneous-Mist-Buffed heal. But that is rip too, and mist is ever shitter. It should have some stam scaling too imo, but I doubt they'd change that.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Battle roar: Revert pls.

Flat values instead.
Because we don't want you to theory craft or make well thought builds.

So you and that 60k hp Dk over there, you both get the same sustain. enjoy.

imba ''this is a buff if you're not a stamDk.''

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

Outside of scaling Green Dragons Blood with stamina which possibly could everything else on your list is in no way balanced and most of the blatantly over powered.

I don't agree with most of the ideas on OP.
But those wouldn't make sDk op, as much stronger tools already exist in stamden's arsenal. they do have an aoe frost ult with major protection, a reflect that costs nothing and gives major heroism, bird of prey that gives them major expedition, major endurance, minor berserk..

I can go on and list 10000 reasons why stamdens are ridicilous but lets get back on what we were about.



stamina GDB and a stamina whip would be more than enough for sDk to get back on his feet.
or zos could simply revert the igneous shield nerf so that its worth using again.
SnB sDK builds would not benefit from stamina whip, but they would use better healing for sure.

As for why stamina whip is important, Its because dizzy swing and flurry sucks, and both work better on a stamsorc.
Which forces Dk to SnB. Stamina whip could change that.

And the empowering chains needs to be reworked in a way to work similar to warden's bird of prey. (less of the generic gapcloser+damage and more of buffing the caster)
Its just an odd skill that doesnt really work.

And as a last suggestion,
Stamina wings, absorb instead of reflect, with minor heroism, BUT no snare removal.(That way Dk builds without SnB will still have minor heroism, Im trying to break the chains of SnB from sDk here.)
giving snare removal to wings would make heavy armor Dk mobility without sacrificing anything for it.

What I was trying to suggest was giving the stam dk a reason to be played smallscaling.
Only a stamina whip and a burst heal won't change nothing in group play. What SDK really lacks is some sort of group utility,I'm tired of people in my group asking me to log my stamden or stamsorc.

so, you want me to explain, right.

first of all, 5 second delayed burst on noxious breath sucks. It will make it a *** version of sub assault, with shittier hitbox and more delay.

And your suggestions to passive spells will make mDk even more ridicilous than it already is.

Draw essence is another hold block & burst spell that is popular for mDks. Its a unique, fun ability BUT, it doesnt do anything special. Its yet another spell that shines on turtle DKs.

So sorry, your ideas wont make sDK a group hero. It will make the turtle turn into a hedgehog.
On group play I do wear medium on my sDk. and tank Dk is already in a fine spot so I make my suggestions taking medium armor DKs into consideration.

I don't want sDk to turn back into the meta ''go to'' class for everybody. I want this class to sit in a playable spot, as a DPS toon. If I had a poison variant of molten whip morph, that would open up soooo many possibilities, like dual wield armor of the truth, combined with tactician/exploiter passives, would make into a very fine stamDk DD build.

meanwhile I do agree with a stamina wings morph.
BUT, giving it both minor heroism and snare removal is too much.
That way there would be no reason for DKs to decide between medium 2h/heavy SnB playstyles, everybody would go heavy armor if wings had snare removal+minor heroism. It should be only minor heroism, for the sake of diversity and balance.

Another third effect might be added to compensate if it ends up too weak. but not snare removal, I originally suggested this exact same thing before, but then I realized how mobility makes medium unique ,and such a change would kill diversity for my own toon, I regretted even suggesting it after that.

Like I said,I don't see how a a stamina whip will help the group. I too play a medium build (and it's unique) and it's very effective damage and healing wise,but I don't know how a stamina whip will improve that. Other classes have spammables but they are useful because they sinergies well with other skills. A stamina whip will just makes SDK thhe low qi brother of mag dk. And no,deep breath is not just a turtling skill but a way of delaying your burst,something crucial in the current meta.

Stam whip means dual wield possibility.

That means a lot. MDk are popular because fire lash is the best spammable in the entire game.

Having strong damage is very valueable to a stam toon that can also hold his ground.

If I can melt things reliably, I will be valueable in small scale. You dont have to be the one supporting your team. You can be the berserker and let your group support you as you murder people.

With a poison whip amping my poison damage I would wear morag tong or alchemist to deal astronomical high hits on people. Dual wield is veeery strong if you have skills neccessary to make it work.

All sDk needs atm for that berserker DW theme is empowering chains rework and poison whip.