Magblade vs mDK Wing Spammer, Help?

Vapirko · December 2017

For the most part I’ve been playing a ranged magblade lately. Really love this class and setup, it’s here to stay for now. As the title says, anyone have tips for fighting wing spammers? All my attacks are reflectable, and they likely have enough regen to just sit there recycling wings until I die of boredom, and if they have half a brain they won’t miss a beat. I must be missing something? Or is magblade the class with zero counterplay to wings?

Neloth · December 2017

Well, if that's a duel, in my opinion there are 2 options.

1) going meele build with concealed, and so on. But, again, in my opinion that's a bad approach - it's so magicka-expensive to sustain, and the DK can really outsustain you.

2) sloting crushing shock(instead of funnel), refreshing path, fear, elemental drain and syphoning is a good approach. With that setup it's easy to kill a DK - you have op sustain, nice heals (even without funnel), can fear him through block on cool down to drain stamina, and kite with shade if required. When you feel DK is low on resources - burst him with soul harvest -> fear -> bow before he drops ultimate.

In open world I just recommend avoiding wing spamming DKs you can't kill.

But, in general it's stupid how wings counter ranged magblade. I hope ZoS makes funnel unreflectabke. They did it to help sorcs - why not do that to help magblades too?

Vapirko · December 2017

Neloth wrote: »

Well, if that's a duel, in my opinion there are 2 options.

1) going meele build with concealed, and so on. But, again, in my opinion that's a bad approach - it's so magicka-expensive to sustain, and the DK can really outsustain you.

2) sloting crushing shock(instead of funnel), refreshing path, fear, elemental drain and syphoning is a good approach. With that setup it's easy to kill a DK - you have op sustain, nice heals (even without funnel), can fear him through block on cool down to drain stamina, and kite with shade if required. When you feel DK is low on resources - burst him with soul harvest -> fear -> bow before he drops ultimate.

In open world I just recommend avoiding wing spamming DKs you can't kill.

But, in general it's stupid how wings counter ranged magblade. I hope ZoS makes funnel unreflectabke. They did it to help sorcs - why not do that to help magblades too?

Talking strictly open world pvp, thanks for the ideas. A good mDK spamming wings seems pretty much unkillable for a ranged magblade build. I honestly hate that skills are made unblockable and undodgeable but honestly what else in a case like this? Wardens, sorcs and DKs all have an unblockable skill so you’re right why not magblades? I get the fear idea, but a ranged magblade can basically say gg if we get within melee range of a good mag DK.

kaithuzar · December 2017

Not necessarily, if you have 2 of any of the following I would say you have a pretty good chance of winning or at least resetting the fight:
Shade, grothdar, refreshing path, wall of elements, sap

Of course you typically need cloak to reset the fight, but at least grothdar or wall of elements forces them to back off & refreshing path or sap will typically keep you alive while dpsing

Vapirko · December 2017

kaithuzar wrote: »

Not necessarily, if you have 2 of any of the following I would say you have a pretty good chance of winning or at least resetting the fight:
Shade, grothdar, refreshing path, wall of elements, sap

Of course you typically need cloak to reset the fight, but at least grothdar or wall of elements forces them to back off & refreshing path or sap will typically keep you alive while dpsing

Wall of ele/path of whatever arent really skills you can afford to have on your bar in open world pvp when talking about solo or duo play primarily and anyway in a group situation these wing spammers aren’t an issue. I’m not using a proc set either otherwise yes that would help if I could land a dot. I guess I could make a swap skills bar specifically for fighting mag DKs lol. Providing I have enough warning to swap and then I don’t get the skill lockup bug.

Datthaw · December 2017

Don't drop swallow soul for force pulse unless you're running like an asylum staff build. It's your bread and butter and tbh the cost is like 2x more that swallow soul so sustain will never be as good with forcepulse or crushing shock as it will swallow soul.

How I have been dealing with magdks lately (because I had the exact same problem for a while) you run immovable pots, I personally like slotting mist form again in cyro, swap it for image in duels, and this is the really big one. Run an infused resto staff with prismatic enchant. All these magdks are vamp. Resto attacks are not reflected by wings. And it's not really just for magdks, pretty much all magplar are vamp along with a large number of magblades.

Vapirko · December 2017

Datthaw wrote: »

Don't drop swallow soul for force pulse unless you're running like an asylum staff build. It's your bread and butter and tbh the cost is like 2x more that swallow soul so sustain will never be as good with forcepulse or crushing shock as it will swallow soul.

How I have been dealing with magdks lately (because I had the exact same problem for a while) you run immovable pots, I personally like slotting mist form again in cyro, swap it for image in duels, and this is the really big one. Run an infused resto staff with prismatic enchant. All these magdks are vamp. Resto attacks are not reflected by wings. And it's not really just for magdks, pretty much all magplar are vamp along with a large number of magblades.

Interesting idea. Did not think to use resto for attack. Suppose Lightning staff would do the trick also, been wanting to play with one on my fb anyway. So are you just running them out of magicka and then pressing the attack?

Raudgrani · December 2017

Ehum... Don't range them, I guess. If you get that solid attention from an enemy as a NB, you need to change the way you think. I never played magicka NB, but guys like these - depending on the situation - I'd just try to wait until their damage shields are down, Surprise Attack - Incapacitating Strike - Heavy Attack into Executioner + perhaps another Executioner if necessary. Usually does the job, if they ain't sitting on like 50k health. At least: If your enemy "wings" your ranged attacks, just don't give them the opportunity.

lynog85 · December 2017

They only reflect for projectiles and light attacks with resto also count as that. Also they ladt 6 seconds. Work your burst around that and its RIP DK.

Vapirko · December 2017

lynog85 wrote: »

They only reflect for projectiles and light attacks with resto also count as that. Also they ladt 6 seconds. Work your burst around that and its RIP DK.

Yeh that’s what I try to do but it’s not hard for them to simply reapply wings prior to six seconds so there’s no downtime. If you don’t get through your burst combo just come back to hit you.

WillhelmBlack · December 2017

Stack befoul CP and use Soul Harvest as your ultimate. Stay ranged for the most part, use Magicka cost poisons and never dodge, just shield stack. When you see the opportunity arise, Cloak in for a heavy to Soul Harvest and follow with an impale while they are stunned. Your ranged CC's are useless, don't waste your time and magicka. Shield stacking completely negates all of their damage, they can't kill you if you're playing properly. At least you have the advantage of an escape as long as you're outside of 8m, the only time you go inside of that is when you have immovable pot up and in Cloak to get that befoul on them.

WillhelmBlack · December 2017

I'd just like to add that infused resto with shock or prismatic is a very good idea!

VaranisArano · December 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Well, if that's a duel, in my opinion there are 2 options.

1) going meele build with concealed, and so on. But, again, in my opinion that's a bad approach - it's so magicka-expensive to sustain, and the DK can really outsustain you.

2) sloting crushing shock(instead of funnel), refreshing path, fear, elemental drain and syphoning is a good approach. With that setup it's easy to kill a DK - you have op sustain, nice heals (even without funnel), can fear him through block on cool down to drain stamina, and kite with shade if required. When you feel DK is low on resources - burst him with soul harvest -> fear -> bow before he drops ultimate.

In open world I just recommend avoiding wing spamming DKs you can't kill.

But, in general it's stupid how wings counter ranged magblade. I hope ZoS makes funnel unreflectabke. They did it to help sorcs - why not do that to help magblades too?

Talking strictly open world pvp, thanks for the ideas. A good mDK spamming wings seems pretty much unkillable for a ranged magblade build. I honestly hate that skills are made unblockable and undodgeable but honestly what else in a case like this? Wardens, sorcs and DKs all have an unblockable skill so you’re right why not magblades? I get the fear idea, but a ranged magblade can basically say gg if we get within melee range of a good mag DK.

Speaking as the magDK healer in open world PVP (full disclosure: I'm not that good at 1v1 PVP, being a group healer primarily), the tactics that killed me when I used wings were to keep the pressure up. My magicka pool isn't unlimited, and it has to get used for self-healing and for damaging you. Against a good magblade who kept the pressure up (fears, stuns, etc), I could do two out of the three - damage, self-healing, wings - but not all three, and not for very long. Once one of those failed or I was out of magicka and on potion cooldown, I was going to be dead sooner or later.

Now, I'm by no means good at magDK 1v1 tactics. I'm quite bad at them, actually. Wings and being a fairly tanky healer allowed me to survive for a little while. But, against a skilled opponent who kept his/her cool and kept the pressure on, my defeat was pretty inevitable.

Or you could do what I do when I run into a tanky individual who wants to just be tanky with no actual damage if I don't hit them. Don't hit them. Just move on. If I go about my business, I win - its not like that tank can stop me. Its open world PVP and the only person having fun with when a magDK turtles and wingspams is the MagDK.

Vapirko · December 2017

VaranisArano wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Well, if that's a duel, in my opinion there are 2 options.

1) going meele build with concealed, and so on. But, again, in my opinion that's a bad approach - it's so magicka-expensive to sustain, and the DK can really outsustain you.

2) sloting crushing shock(instead of funnel), refreshing path, fear, elemental drain and syphoning is a good approach. With that setup it's easy to kill a DK - you have op sustain, nice heals (even without funnel), can fear him through block on cool down to drain stamina, and kite with shade if required. When you feel DK is low on resources - burst him with soul harvest -> fear -> bow before he drops ultimate.

In open world I just recommend avoiding wing spamming DKs you can't kill.

But, in general it's stupid how wings counter ranged magblade. I hope ZoS makes funnel unreflectabke. They did it to help sorcs - why not do that to help magblades too?

Talking strictly open world pvp, thanks for the ideas. A good mDK spamming wings seems pretty much unkillable for a ranged magblade build. I honestly hate that skills are made unblockable and undodgeable but honestly what else in a case like this? Wardens, sorcs and DKs all have an unblockable skill so you’re right why not magblades? I get the fear idea, but a ranged magblade can basically say gg if we get within melee range of a good mag DK.

Speaking as the magDK healer in open world PVP (full disclosure: I'm not that good at 1v1 PVP, being a group healer primarily), the tactics that killed me when I used wings were to keep the pressure up. My magicka pool isn't unlimited, and it has to get used for self-healing and for damaging you. Against a good magblade who kept the pressure up (fears, stuns, etc), I could do two out of the three - damage, self-healing, wings - but not all three, and not for very long. Once one of those failed or I was out of magicka and on potion cooldown, I was going to be dead sooner or later.

Now, I'm by no means good at magDK 1v1 tactics. I'm quite bad at them, actually. Wings and being a fairly tanky healer allowed me to survive for a little while. But, against a skilled opponent who kept his/her cool and kept the pressure on, my defeat was pretty inevitable.

Or you could do what I do when I run into a tanky individual who wants to just be tanky with no actual damage if I don't hit them. Don't hit them. Just move on. If I go about my business, I win - its not like that tank can stop me. Its open world PVP and the only person having fun with when a magDK turtles and wingspams is the MagDK.

Thanks for the inside insight. Tbh I don’t run into many wing spammers. There’s only been a couple who are trouble but when they show up they’re a real issue and they’re not usually low damage tanks. Getting close enough to fear can spell trouble.

kaithuzar · December 2017

Good mag dk's will bring the pressure hard on you making you go into shield spam mode & not letting up. They won't give you an opportunity to go offensive & they try to make you run out of resources with the shield/heal spam.

Technically 1vX doesn't really exist unless you're only attacking with aoe all the time.
If you have more than 2 opponents on you then you pick a target & burst them down, that's a 1v1 fight, you break every fight down to cyro 1v1 & that's typically how you win. So yes, you should make room to put one of those skills I listed on.
There is another easier solution I'm going to do when I get back from vacation; race change from high elf to dark elf.
But you can also try being stage 1 vamp instead of stage 4

Drummerx04 · December 2017

lynog85 wrote: »

They only reflect for projectiles and light attacks with resto also count as that. Also they ladt 6 seconds. Work your burst around that and its RIP DK.

The resto light attack gets reflected, but you can briefly channel the resto heavy to proc the enchant without the resto being dodged or reflected.

Vapirko · December 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

They only reflect for projectiles and light attacks with resto also count as that. Also they ladt 6 seconds. Work your burst around that and its RIP DK.

The resto light attack gets reflected, but you can briefly channel the resto heavy to proc the enchant without the resto being dodged or reflected.

Damn, that sounds pretty lame.

AverageJo3Gam3r · December 2017

There's dozens of ofher threads on this. Your options are:

1. Walk away. MDKs have concrete in their shoes. MDKs can hard counter ranged builds just like Templars hard counter mdk dots using ritual. It's a rock-paper-scissors meta
2. Cost poisons
3. Slot melee skills
4. Proc merciless. Count to five after they use wings, fear then merciless+ult+execute while they're CC'd

DDuke · December 2017

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

1. Walk away. MDKs have concrete in their shoes. MDKs can hard counter ranged builds just like Templars hard counter mdk dots using ritual. It's a rock-paper-scissors meta

...unless they run Ambush on steroids, aka Empowering Chains. Then they definitely don't have concrete in their shoes

OP, the best way to deal with magicka DKs with wings is probably just cloaking somewhere far away, poking them with light attacks (from behind, so they can't immediately use Chains & lock you down) & trying to set up for a Harvest->CC+Merciless instagib combo. Also, some magicka NB builds run frost staff+WoE which can work nicely.

You're not going to kill even a semi-decent magicka DK with sustained damage, wings or not.

Savos_Saren · December 2017

DDuke wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

1. Walk away. MDKs have concrete in their shoes. MDKs can hard counter ranged builds just like Templars hard counter mdk dots using ritual. It's a rock-paper-scissors meta

...unless they run Ambush on steroids, aka Empowering Chains. Then they definitely don't have concrete in their shoes

OP, the best way to deal with magicka DKs with wings is probably just cloaking somewhere far away, poking them with light attacks (from behind, so they can't immediately use Chains & lock you down) & trying to set up for a Harvest->CC+Merciless instagib combo. Also, some magicka NB builds run frost staff+WoE which can work nicely.

You're not going to kill even a semi-decent magicka DK with sustained damage, wings or not.

Decent mDKs are few and far between and even fewer use Chains. (It's pretty broken for us.) Wings is also very expensive for us to use- so, it's mostly used while trying to take a keep... there's a lot of ranged people shooting from walls. That being said: A DK's wings are incredibly noticeable when they flap. Even I as an mDK just avoid firing at that one guy. I let the newbies who like to spam Snipe kill themselves.

I can say that the hardest encounters I've had with MagBlades are when they're pressuring me with Refreshing Path, using Crippling Grasp, and they're stacking up their Spectral Bow with medium/heavy attacks from a Resto/Lightning Staff. If we're up close and personal- I won't be using my wings. So that's the time to fire off the Spectral Bow.

The best range to fight an mDK as a MagBlade is within the 8-15m range (middle distance). Our Fossilize, Burning Embers, and Whips can't hit you and you're not far enough away to where we'd focus on using wings.

Why am I giving this knowledge away?

Because I have an MagBlade, too!

Subversus · December 2017

I just slot double cost poisons when going against a wing spammer. I only play destro/resto magblade (heavy or light) and I am not gonna go with melee just to counter a guy that knowingly uses a 100% no counterplay counter to my class. It's ***

Subversus · December 2017

Savos_Saren wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

1. Walk away. MDKs have concrete in their shoes. MDKs can hard counter ranged builds just like Templars hard counter mdk dots using ritual. It's a rock-paper-scissors meta

...unless they run Ambush on steroids, aka Empowering Chains. Then they definitely don't have concrete in their shoes

OP, the best way to deal with magicka DKs with wings is probably just cloaking somewhere far away, poking them with light attacks (from behind, so they can't immediately use Chains & lock you down) & trying to set up for a Harvest->CC+Merciless instagib combo. Also, some magicka NB builds run frost staff+WoE which can work nicely.

You're not going to kill even a semi-decent magicka DK with sustained damage, wings or not.

Decent mDKs are few and far between and even fewer use Chains. (It's pretty broken for us.) Wings is also very expensive for us to use- so, it's mostly used while trying to take a keep... there's a lot of ranged people shooting from walls. That being said: A DK's wings are incredibly noticeable when they flap. Even I as an mDK just avoid firing at that one guy. I let the newbies who like to spam Snipe kill themselves.

I can say that the hardest encounters I've had with MagBlades are when they're pressuring me with Refreshing Path, using Crippling Grasp, and they're stacking up their Spectral Bow with medium/heavy attacks from a Resto/Lightning Staff. If we're up close and personal- I won't be using my wings. So that's the time to fire off the Spectral Bow.

The best range to fight an mDK as a MagBlade is within the 8-15m range (middle distance). Our Fossilize, Burning Embers, and Whips can't hit you and you're not far enough away to where we'd focus on using wings.

Why am I giving this knowledge away?
Because I have an MagBlade, too!

How can a magblade pressure you with crippling grasp and spectral bow when both are reflectable? Also please, any decent magdk build can spam wings against a magblade indefinitely in a 1v1 scenario, the "it's too expensive" boat has long sailed.

ak_pvp · December 2017

Subversus wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

1. Walk away. MDKs have concrete in their shoes. MDKs can hard counter ranged builds just like Templars hard counter mdk dots using ritual. It's a rock-paper-scissors meta

...unless they run Ambush on steroids, aka Empowering Chains. Then they definitely don't have concrete in their shoes

OP, the best way to deal with magicka DKs with wings is probably just cloaking somewhere far away, poking them with light attacks (from behind, so they can't immediately use Chains & lock you down) & trying to set up for a Harvest->CC+Merciless instagib combo. Also, some magicka NB builds run frost staff+WoE which can work nicely.

You're not going to kill even a semi-decent magicka DK with sustained damage, wings or not.

Decent mDKs are few and far between and even fewer use Chains. (It's pretty broken for us.) Wings is also very expensive for us to use- so, it's mostly used while trying to take a keep... there's a lot of ranged people shooting from walls. That being said: A DK's wings are incredibly noticeable when they flap. Even I as an mDK just avoid firing at that one guy. I let the newbies who like to spam Snipe kill themselves.

I can say that the hardest encounters I've had with MagBlades are when they're pressuring me with Refreshing Path, using Crippling Grasp, and they're stacking up their Spectral Bow with medium/heavy attacks from a Resto/Lightning Staff. If we're up close and personal- I won't be using my wings. So that's the time to fire off the Spectral Bow.

The best range to fight an mDK as a MagBlade is within the 8-15m range (middle distance). Our Fossilize, Burning Embers, and Whips can't hit you and you're not far enough away to where we'd focus on using wings.

Why am I giving this knowledge away?
Because I have an MagBlade, too!

How can a magblade pressure you with crippling grasp and spectral bow when both are reflectable? Also please, any decent magdk build can spam wings against a magblade indefinitely in a 1v1 scenario, the "it's too expensive" boat has long sailed.

3.5k on most builds I run, quite sustainable in duels, not at all vs multiple, because its takes around 1s with two people to brute force it and can easily stomach the halved damage. What gets me in a duel is if someone can time a bruteforce of it.

Keep path+wall up, Get CC immunity, use harness, attack (2s to break and harness absorbs and returns the mag a little) then fear me and lay in on me. If done well it makes it harder to sustain it, since I will then have to heal and re apply, which can often take a big chunk of mag. If done wrong though, they will hurt themselves, I will CC and whip them.

Subversus · December 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

1. Walk away. MDKs have concrete in their shoes. MDKs can hard counter ranged builds just like Templars hard counter mdk dots using ritual. It's a rock-paper-scissors meta

...unless they run Ambush on steroids, aka Empowering Chains. Then they definitely don't have concrete in their shoes

OP, the best way to deal with magicka DKs with wings is probably just cloaking somewhere far away, poking them with light attacks (from behind, so they can't immediately use Chains & lock you down) & trying to set up for a Harvest->CC+Merciless instagib combo. Also, some magicka NB builds run frost staff+WoE which can work nicely.

You're not going to kill even a semi-decent magicka DK with sustained damage, wings or not.

Decent mDKs are few and far between and even fewer use Chains. (It's pretty broken for us.) Wings is also very expensive for us to use- so, it's mostly used while trying to take a keep... there's a lot of ranged people shooting from walls. That being said: A DK's wings are incredibly noticeable when they flap. Even I as an mDK just avoid firing at that one guy. I let the newbies who like to spam Snipe kill themselves.

I can say that the hardest encounters I've had with MagBlades are when they're pressuring me with Refreshing Path, using Crippling Grasp, and they're stacking up their Spectral Bow with medium/heavy attacks from a Resto/Lightning Staff. If we're up close and personal- I won't be using my wings. So that's the time to fire off the Spectral Bow.

The best range to fight an mDK as a MagBlade is within the 8-15m range (middle distance). Our Fossilize, Burning Embers, and Whips can't hit you and you're not far enough away to where we'd focus on using wings.

Why am I giving this knowledge away?
Because I have an MagBlade, too!

How can a magblade pressure you with crippling grasp and spectral bow when both are reflectable? Also please, any decent magdk build can spam wings against a magblade indefinitely in a 1v1 scenario, the "it's too expensive" boat has long sailed.

3.5k on most builds I run, quite sustainable in duels, not at all vs multiple, because its takes around 1s with two people to brute force it and can easily stomach the halved damage. What gets me in a duel is if someone can time a bruteforce of it.

Keep path+wall up, Get CC immunity, use harness, attack (2s to break and harness absorbs and returns the mag a little) then fear me and lay in on me. If done well it makes it harder to sustain it, since I will then have to heal and re apply, which can often take a big chunk of mag. If done wrong though, they will hurt themselves, I will CC and whip them.

Very good points, but playing like that implies I have to change my whole build/skill setup for one single opponent. It shouldn't be like this. Wings are an absolute hard counter to magblades, and when paired with a magdk running 3 light damage sets (cause why not, you can sustain it in duels) it's needlessly hard. I want wings to be able to have counterplay, not be completely nerfed into oblivion. At least make strife unreflectable (not undodgeable or unblockable) so we can spam SOMETHING while wings is up...

Also I'm pretty sure embers can outheal the damage from path and WoE alone...

Edit: rip grammar

ak_pvp · December 2017

Subversus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

1. Walk away. MDKs have concrete in their shoes. MDKs can hard counter ranged builds just like Templars hard counter mdk dots using ritual. It's a rock-paper-scissors meta

...unless they run Ambush on steroids, aka Empowering Chains. Then they definitely don't have concrete in their shoes

OP, the best way to deal with magicka DKs with wings is probably just cloaking somewhere far away, poking them with light attacks (from behind, so they can't immediately use Chains & lock you down) & trying to set up for a Harvest->CC+Merciless instagib combo. Also, some magicka NB builds run frost staff+WoE which can work nicely.

You're not going to kill even a semi-decent magicka DK with sustained damage, wings or not.

Decent mDKs are few and far between and even fewer use Chains. (It's pretty broken for us.) Wings is also very expensive for us to use- so, it's mostly used while trying to take a keep... there's a lot of ranged people shooting from walls. That being said: A DK's wings are incredibly noticeable when they flap. Even I as an mDK just avoid firing at that one guy. I let the newbies who like to spam Snipe kill themselves.

I can say that the hardest encounters I've had with MagBlades are when they're pressuring me with Refreshing Path, using Crippling Grasp, and they're stacking up their Spectral Bow with medium/heavy attacks from a Resto/Lightning Staff. If we're up close and personal- I won't be using my wings. So that's the time to fire off the Spectral Bow.

The best range to fight an mDK as a MagBlade is within the 8-15m range (middle distance). Our Fossilize, Burning Embers, and Whips can't hit you and you're not far enough away to where we'd focus on using wings.

Why am I giving this knowledge away?
Because I have an MagBlade, too!

How can a magblade pressure you with crippling grasp and spectral bow when both are reflectable? Also please, any decent magdk build can spam wings against a magblade indefinitely in a 1v1 scenario, the "it's too expensive" boat has long sailed.

3.5k on most builds I run, quite sustainable in duels, not at all vs multiple, because its takes around 1s with two people to brute force it and can easily stomach the halved damage. What gets me in a duel is if someone can time a bruteforce of it.

Keep path+wall up, Get CC immunity, use harness, attack (2s to break and harness absorbs and returns the mag a little) then fear me and lay in on me. If done well it makes it harder to sustain it, since I will then have to heal and re apply, which can often take a big chunk of mag. If done wrong though, they will hurt themselves, I will CC and whip them.

Very good points, but playing like that implies I have to change my whole build/skill setup for one single opponent. It shouldn't be like this. Wings are an absolute hard counter to magblades, and when paired with a magdk running 3 light damage sets (cause why not, you can sustain it in duels) it's needlessly hard. I want wings to be able to have counterplay, not be completely nerfed into oblivion. At least make strife unreflectable (not undodgeable or unblockable) so we can spam SOMETHING while wings is up...

Also I'm pretty sure embers can outheal the damage from path and WoE alone...

Edit: rip grammar

It is a tough playstyle but it works, and to my knowledge, uses many of the basic duel NB skills. And I suppose that path could be outhealed by embers, but if a DK is focused on healing and thinks they are sitting pretty in wings, then you can catch them more offguard.

If you use soul harvest (some don't because its melee) and fear/shade you can debuff the heck out of them consistently and they become pretty much just wings, losing a lot of healing and damage, then use the bruteforce method. In tourneys a stalemate would get you a defacto win for the offense.

I'd say make wings 3 projectiles per person and 4s, so its breakable and less sustainable in pure duels, but more useful in outnumbered situations, wings already can't reflect too much, and is bugged to high hell, so adding another ability exemption would be bad.

Datthaw · December 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Don't drop swallow soul for force pulse unless you're running like an asylum staff build. It's your bread and butter and tbh the cost is like 2x more that swallow soul so sustain will never be as good with forcepulse or crushing shock as it will swallow soul.

How I have been dealing with magdks lately (because I had the exact same problem for a while) you run immovable pots, I personally like slotting mist form again in cyro, swap it for image in duels, and this is the really big one. Run an infused resto staff with prismatic enchant. All these magdks are vamp. Resto attacks are not reflected by wings. And it's not really just for magdks, pretty much all magplar are vamp along with a large number of magblades.

Interesting idea. Did not think to use resto for attack. Suppose Lightning staff would do the trick also, been wanting to play with one on my fb anyway. So are you just running them out of magicka and then pressing the attack?

Yeah alot of times they end up running out of mag because they want wings up to stop main a tacks so they end up spamming wings and healing ward or dragons blood, now some really good magdks can play around this just because they are good. But your run of the mill dk you see in cyro will drop easy with this

Draxys · December 2017

I saw a mageblade shred a mDK in a duel. The DK kept wings up but the NB just stayed patient, found an opening in the wings because they can’t spam it forever and also have good damage. When wings went down, meteor- fear- spectral bow- dead DK.

Datthaw · December 2017

Ok so I hear alot of people say this "mag dks are turtles" and that's just not exactly true, and you sound like a cyro cloak spammer to me. And I will explain my reasoning.

So you kite them with cripple? A decent magdk is going to pop wings before that slow ass animation hits and you just cripple you self and they are on top of you.

I hear people say count to six pop fear then let a mercy shot ult w/e combo off. Sounds easy enough and I've done it but try doing that six second count vs a DK bulldozing towads you with wings up landing a talons follilize combo. Not exactly reliable.

And the big one, leap.... LEAP. Most of these really good no permablock magdks will leap on you like a bat out of hell followed by some talons whips and what have you. That's a flying mofo don't look like a turtle to me.

I hear people say image to kite. Cyro to cloak away yeah maybe but duels you tp away to more wings or you have the dk leap on you. No real solution and say you tp away dk leaps on you what then image while ccd to hell with talons and fossilize.

So ends my rant on the magdks aren't turtles.

Oh and in cyro.... mistform most good dks run it. Major emp and cc immunity don't sound like turtle

Vapirko · December 2017

Draxys wrote: »

I saw a mageblade shred a mDK in a duel. The DK kept wings up but the NB just stayed patient, found an opening in the wings because they can’t spam it forever and also have good damage. When wings went down, meteor- fear- spectral bow- dead DK.

That sounds pretty cool. Maybe too cool for me lol. Patience it is then.

StayAlfresco · December 2017

You just have to focus on when wings are down and burst the *** out of them. I also bait them, by purposely getting low health, and poking them enough to be able to fear, bow, ulti. They will let their wings drop 100% of the time if they think they can kill you. I dueled my friend who's a decent mag DK for months on end and I can honestly say now I would prefer to fight a mag DK spamming wings over a Mag Templar any day of the week.

Vapirko · December 2017

StayAlfresco wrote: »

You just have to focus on when wings are down and burst the *** out of them. I also bait them, by purposely getting low health, and poking them enough to be able to fear, bow, ulti. They will let their wings drop 100% of the time if they think they can kill you. I dueled my friend who's a decent mag DK for months on end and I can honestly say now I would prefer to fight a mag DK spamming wings over a Mag Templar any day of the week.

Magplars for me go one of two ways, either they just sit there and spam bol and I get bored and leave or I can stay out of their kill zone and wear them down. If they come out of their zone it’s bad news for them. One big issue is I can’t afford immov pots most of the time lol. I use the cheap alliance ones soemties.