Should ground Ultimates be negateable?

Sanct16 · December 2017

What do you think?

Stratforge · December 2017

ALL should be negateable

ya

redspecter23 · December 2017

Negate warps the metagame such that ground ultimates are a liability. Due to this, I'd suggest that ZOS have a good look at it at some point whether that leads to complete negate immunity or partial. An ultimate should be useful or trash on its own merits and not on how it interacts with a single ability such as negate.

Telel · December 2017

ALL should be negateable

Yes.

However there should be two kinds of negates for this. One of the morphs should remove anything ongoing when cast. The other should negate ground effects that enter after it drops.

Draxys · December 2017

redspecter23 wrote: »

Negate warps the metagame such that ground ultimates are a liability. Due to this, I'd suggest that ZOS have a good look at it at some point whether that leads to complete negate immunity or partial. An ultimate should be useful or trash on its own merits and not on how it interacts with a single ability such as negate.

I'm on the fence for this reason. Maybe one version could remove normal ability effects and only suppress/not affect ultimate effects? And the other morph could work like Telel suggested and not allow any effects to be cast inside its radius instead of erasing them. Tough call, negate is good but makes slotting some ults pointless.

Draxys · December 2017

Had a random thought... what if negate worked exactly as it does now, but refunded the ult cost to anyone who got their ult negated? That would add a “purge bug” layer of strategy (wish we had bug back btw). You would have time them to make sure you use the negate at the perfect moment- for example, right as your DDs are hitting, so that you wipe your opponent instead giving them more ults and time to use them.

Joy_Division · December 2017

By the actual Negate skill, yes.

By a gear set? No way.

Drummerx04 · December 2017

As a sorc main, I'm not sure I can answer this in an unbiased fashion.

Negate is one of the few ground placed ults that doesn't include some sort of snare like banner and solar prison. Really "all" it does besides remove ground effects is silence. While powerful, the negate does very little to actually keep people from moving out directly.

I can't believe I'm suggesting this in eso, but perhaps if negate included a snare, it would then be more balanced to not remove other ground ults.

Joy_Division wrote: »

By the actual Negate skill, yes.

By a gear set? No way.

Ultimately -- pun intended -- Earthgore is bull, and as long as it removes them, negate should too.

Sanct16 · December 2017

NONE should be negateable

The problem imo is that as long as ground ultimates are negateable they will never be viable in group fights. The only viable ground ultimate is banner as it is not negateable. At the same time, removing ground ultimates isn't even the reason why people use negate, it's just a side effect (or not since noone uses ground ults bc of negate). Removing healing springs and silencing already makes it an outstanding ultimate, so i think it should not negate ultimates.

dsalter · December 2017

SOME should be negateable

only meteor, rest are awful due to being negatable.

Lucky28 · December 2017

NONE should be negateable

I'm gonna go on ahead and say, no. I mean gound ults cost a lot and when you put down a ground ult you mostly want to be standing in it so the simple act of putting a negate over someone's ground ult is a counter enough it really doesn't need to erase the effect.

and i just want to see a variety of ults used in this game again. ground ults not being erased by negates/earthgore would go a long way.

Drummerx04 · December 2017

Honestly, they could just make most ground ults a bit cheaper.

Nova: 180
Banner: 200

for instance are currently just as expensive as EOTS, and it would be a nice little buff to templars and DKs for PvE too.

Sharee · December 2017

NONE should be negateable

The ultimate that is stuck in place (and thus easy to get out of/avoid) is also the ultimate which is vulnerable to negate. While the ultimate that is mobile and hundred times more dangerous is immune to negate.

That is just f*ed up. IMHO.

leeux · December 2017

SOME should be negateable

I think none of them except other Negates should be negatable.

asneakybanana · December 2017

ALL should be negateable

Should be negatable but not absorbed by noon ultimate negates such as earthgore.

Vilestride · December 2017

NONE should be negateable

I think with the exception of negates itself, then no, they should not be negateable. Not if we want them to be viable.

I think it's important to distinguish this as a buff to the affected grounds ults, not a nerf to negate. Negate will still be as useful as ever, you are still going to need it to counter negate, and you are still going to need it to suppress targets as you engage them.

Honestly could be cool to see a more definitive split in what the morphs do to, as some people have suggested, perhaps something like if one morph suppressed players preventing additional casting, and the other morph no longer suppressed but clears the ground of all current enemy effects. But I dunno, admittedly I haven't really thought that through yet.

Drummerx04 wrote: »

As a sorc main, I'm not sure I can answer this in an unbiased fashion.

Negate is one of the few ground placed ults that doesn't include some sort of snare like banner and solar prison. Really "all" it does besides remove ground effects is silence. While powerful, the negate does very little to actually keep people from moving out directly.

I can't believe I'm suggesting this in eso, but perhaps if negate included a snare, it would then be more balanced to not remove other ground ults.

.

I dunno, I have to object to the addition of a snare to it on the basis that sorcs have access to some of the best disruption and CC abilities in the game, I would like to see sorcs having to co-ordinate their negate with the streaks and encase as their means of preventing enemies from moving out oif it. I don't think we have to make it easier.

although sorcs have taken some pretty heavy nerfs lately #bringbackfragstun

WuffyCerulei · December 2017

ALL should be negateable

Negating any ultimates is really the only thing Suppression field can do against stam builds.

Sharee · December 2017

NONE should be negateable

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Negating any ultimates is really the only thing Suppression field can do against stam builds.

The thread is not about negating ultimates in general tho, only about negating ground-placed ultimates. And i honestly don't remember the last time i saw a stam build drop one of those. It's all dawnbreakers and incaps and leaps...

Derra · December 2017

ALL should be negateable

Sanct16 wrote: »

The problem imo is that as long as ground ultimates are negateable they will never be viable in group fights. The only viable ground ultimate is banner as it is not negateable. At the same time, removing ground ultimates isn't even the reason why people use negate, it's just a side effect (or not since noone uses ground ults bc of negate). Removing healing springs and silencing already makes it an outstanding ultimate, so i think it should not negate ultimates.

If negate would return to permanently dispell groundeffects i could live with ultimates not being negateable - currently a big part of negate being vaible is being able to counter other ultimates with it (ironically mainly negate).

It´s already of debateable use except for spacing when not countering other ultimates with it. If that functionality would be lost aswell i don´t see sorc in a good spot for groups - as they´re undeniably lacking in comparison to other DDs.

Anazasi · December 2017

ALL should be negateable

Negate should be like it was at launch. Bring it back and watch the change in group dynamic.

You want to ride the green carpet? Well that wasn't the case at launch. You want to break free and be able to just cast on like nothing happened, well that's not the way it use to be. Negate was powerful but it always had a counter. The fact that you can only stack 2 negates in the same place hasn't changed. If players learned how to counter negate more there wouldn't be issues. Change negate back to the way it was at launch and see how it affects choices in pvp.

Draxys · December 2017

Anazasi wrote: »

Negate should be like it was at launch. Bring it back and watch the change in group dynamic.

You want to ride the green carpet? Well that wasn't the case at launch. You want to break free and be able to just cast on like nothing happened, well that's not the way it use to be. Negate was powerful but it always had a counter. The fact that you can only stack 2 negates in the same place hasn't changed. If players learned how to counter negate more there wouldn't be issues. Change negate back to the way it was at launch and see how it affects choices in pvp.

We already know how the gameplay would change and how it would affect choices. It would be like 1.5- whoever has more negates will almost always win. Believe me, I wish so hard that this game could go back to 1.5, but negate was too strong.

Vilestride · December 2017

NONE should be negateable

Keep in mind this is less about changing negate and more about changing certain ground AoE ults to make them potentially viable.

Abram · December 2017

SOME should be negateable

I think no ultimate should be negatable, although, the mechanic preventing them from being cast while inside the negate should remain. This includes negate itself. Could be interesting to see if that would force more stam/mag balance of players in raids to have zones with both friendly and enemy negates in effect.

Vilestride wrote: »

#bringbackfragstun

^We can be friends again.

TBois · December 2017

What if it negated the damage from ground ult but kept the other negative effects or vice versa

Drummerx04 · December 2017

Vilestride wrote: »

I think with the exception of negates itself, then no, they should not be negateable. Not if we want them to be viable.

I think it's important to distinguish this as a buff to the affected grounds ults, not a nerf to negate. Negate will still be as useful as ever, you are still going to need it to counter negate, and you are still going to need it to suppress targets as you engage them.

Honestly could be cool to see a more definitive split in what the morphs do to, as some people have suggested, perhaps something like if one morph suppressed players preventing additional casting, and the other morph no longer suppressed but clears the ground of all current enemy effects. But I dunno, admittedly I haven't really thought that through yet.

Drummerx04 wrote: »

As a sorc main, I'm not sure I can answer this in an unbiased fashion.

Negate is one of the few ground placed ults that doesn't include some sort of snare like banner and solar prison. Really "all" it does besides remove ground effects is silence. While powerful, the negate does very little to actually keep people from moving out directly.

I can't believe I'm suggesting this in eso, but perhaps if negate included a snare, it would then be more balanced to not remove other ground ults.

.

I dunno, I have to object to the addition of a snare to it on the basis that sorcs have access to some of the best disruption and CC abilities in the game, I would like to see sorcs having to co-ordinate their negate with the streaks and encase as their means of preventing enemies from moving out oif it. I don't think we have to make it easier.

although sorcs have taken some pretty heavy nerfs lately #bringbackfragstun

Generally, I do at a minimum streak targets in a negate, sometimes a few times in a row if there's more than 6... so pretty much always.

And legit, I'd rather have the frag stun back and put rune cage back to how it was. Let DK's have that move, you know?

Lucky28 · December 2017

NONE should be negateable

Sanct16 wrote: »

The problem imo is that as long as ground ultimates are negateable they will never be viable in group fights. The only viable ground ultimate is banner as it is not negateable. At the same time, removing ground ultimates isn't even the reason why people use negate, it's just a side effect (or not since noone uses ground ults bc of negate). Removing healing springs and silencing already makes it an outstanding ultimate, so i think it should not negate ultimates.

they're not even viable in small group play which is terribly unfortunate because that's where ground ults should really shine.

something needs to be done. either dramatically reduce the cost of ground ults (90 - 100 ult cost) or make them un-negatable.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Should ground Ultimates be negateable?

Should ground Ultimates be negateable? 54 votes