A Chat About Tranmsogrification and The Crafters' Mass Grave

Dapper Dinosaur · December 2017

Melodramatic title, I know.

Ever since One Tamriel, crafters have been becoming more and more irrelevant with each update. Not only are almost none of the crafted sets used much at all anymore, but when Zenimax had two major chances to give crafters some kind of market to flourish in (housing and transmutation), they screwed it up so badly that crafters either got nothing to work with for business (housing, because the demand for non-achievement items is virtually nonexistent) , or were unable to render a service for anyone else because the game binds any item you transmute. With the One Tamriel update, Zenimax dug a 6-foot grave for us crafters, and then with every update since, they added another couple feet.

Crafting has never been less important. When it comes to Transmutation, literally anyone can do their own, and even if they couldn't, by making it bind-on-transmute, Zenimax made sure crafters didn't get any way to market their skills. When it comes to housing, the demand for non-achievement items is basically nothing, with the only exception being daedric-style furnishings where the blueprints for them are much rarer and better-looking than most of the normal items.

With the transmogrification system on the way, I'm saying it now, we NEED to be able to transmogrify items for other people. Even though the market will surely take a major hit from the fact that crafters can't receive existing bound items to change, I feel like enough new gear would be transmogrifiable that it would MAJORLY revive crafting as a legitimate business, and the best part is it would reward the crafters that know all of the most-desired motif pages.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2017

It may differ from console to PC, but I simply don't see crafting getting any worse. I make a bundle from selling set pieces. For example, TBS, Julianos, nirn weapons and so on sell very well. Yeah, the majority of sets are trash, but that's always been the case. There's enough sets out there to make a killing. Then there's glyphs, food and pots.

ThePrinceOfBargains · December 2017

There are a few unique styles in the game that will probably never be craftable, such as Abnur Tharn’s Staff. I’d rather be able to transmogrify those than make a source of easy gold for crafters. How are writs not enough incentive to craft?

Prof_Bawbag · December 2017

ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

There are a few unique styles in the game that will probably never be craftable, such as Abnur Tharn’s Staff. I’d rather be able to transmogrify those than make a source of easy gold for crafters. How are writs not enough incentive to craft?

I've found anything under 150 voucher writs isn't worth the mat outlay nowadays unless it's for personal use. Little or no incentive there unless you strike it big.

FrancisCrawford · December 2017

ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

How are writs not enough incentive to craft?

Lack of appealing things to buy with them.

Purple furnishing recipes were fine to buy at $10K a pop. $25K, however, for a random purple recipe with most of the valuable ones excluded, is pretty ridiculous. (At least in the PC/NA economy.) And so after the first few hundred vouchers are spent on crafting stations or whatever, quickly it becomes a matter of buying stuff to sell for gold. That gives writs a certain gold value ... which isn't necessarily high enough to be excited about.

I have a couple thousand writ vouchers sitting around, waiting for something good to spend them on, or else for my cash reserves to dwindle so far that I feel like monetizing them. But I also have 7 million or so in gold, so I'm unlikely to run low on cash unless I buy one of the notable houses that can actually be bought for gold, none of which seems like an appealing target to actually furnish. So why would I buy one? I haven't even decorated my Hunding's Palatial yet, against the hope that housing/furnishing will generally be improved (which ZoS has announced it will now try to do).

MLGProPlayer · December 2017

My guild chat is flooded with requests for crafting, literally 24/7. Crafting is still very much in-demand (Julianos is probably the most popular magicka set in the entire game).

FrancisCrawford · December 2017

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

It may differ from console to PC, but I simply don't see crafting getting any worse. I make a bundle from selling set pieces. For example, TBS, Julianos, nirn weapons and so on sell very well. Yeah, the majority of sets are trash, but that's always been the case. There's enough sets out there to make a killing. Then there's glyphs, food and pots.

On PC/NA there definitely are things you can craft and sell at a profit.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

My guild chat is flooded by requests for crafting, literally 24/7. Crafting is still very much in-demand (Julianos is probably the most popular magicka set in the entire game).

Yup and the likes of Hunding's Rage and Night Mother's Gaze are always being asked for too.

Dapper Dinosaur · December 2017

On Xbox, I see at most only one "Looking for crafter" in the text chat a day, and I guarantee they're all expecting a complete crafting set job for 10k or less. That's just not worth putting up with.

VaranisArano · December 2017

ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

There are a few unique styles in the game that will probably never be craftable, such as Abnur Tharn’s Staff. I’d rather be able to transmogrify those than make a source of easy gold for crafters. How are writs not enough incentive to craft?

You can get a staff that looks like Abnur Tharn's from a dolmen boss. https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/volars-crescent-staff-2/

Conduit0 · December 2017

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

It may differ from console to PC, but I simply don't see crafting getting any worse. I make a bundle from selling set pieces. For example, TBS, Julianos, nirn weapons and so on sell very well. Yeah, the majority of sets are trash, but that's always been the case. There's enough sets out there to make a killing. Then there's glyphs, food and pots.

On PC/NA there definitely are things you can craft and sell at a profit.

I've had pretty much the opposite experience on PC/NA, due to rampant under cutting of crafted items its usually more profitable to sell the raw materials than the crafted item.

Personally I'd like to see ZOS add a "Transmog Kit" a craftable consumable item that allows you to convert a single armor/weapon piece to a certain motif. Making a transmog kit would cost the same mats as transmogging an armor piece and you could only create transmog kits for motifs that you have the achievement for.

Slick_007 · December 2017

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Melodramatic title, I know.

Ever since One Tamriel, crafters have been becoming more and more irrelevant with each update. Not only are almost none of the crafted sets used much at all anymore

weird that i see more and more crafted gear on the traders than ever before. if they werent selling, they wouldnt be there.

altemriel · December 2017

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Melodramatic title, I know.

Ever since One Tamriel, crafters have been becoming more and more irrelevant with each update. Not only are almost none of the crafted sets used much at all anymore, but when Zenimax had two major chances to give crafters some kind of market to flourish in (housing and transmutation), they screwed it up so badly that crafters either got nothing to work with for business (housing, because the demand for non-achievement items is virtually nonexistent) , or were unable to render a service for anyone else because the game binds any item you transmute. With the One Tamriel update, Zenimax dug a 6-foot grave for us crafters, and then with every update since, they added another couple feet.

Crafting has never been less important. When it comes to Transmutation, literally anyone can do their own, and even if they couldn't, by making it bind-on-transmute, Zenimax made sure crafters didn't get any way to market their skills. When it comes to housing, the demand for non-achievement items is basically nothing, with the only exception being daedric-style furnishings where the blueprints for them are much rarer and better-looking than most of the normal items.

With the transmogrification system on the way, I'm saying it now, we NEED to be able to transmogrify items for other people. Even though the market will surely take a major hit from the fact that crafters can't receive existing bound items to change, I feel like enough new gear would be transmogrifiable that it would MAJORLY revive crafting as a legitimate business, and the best part is it would reward the crafters that know all of the most-desired motif pages.

YES!!! (the bolded part)

PS4_ZeColmeia · December 2017

I agree worth the OP. I'm hoping that the bound system could be changed to limit equipping instead of trading. This small change would allow crafters to upgrade, transmute or transmog already bound items (while remaining useless to the person recieving other than trading back for gold).

Slightly harder change is to add a new option to people when in proximity to a crafting table that gives a more secure upgrade option because the item never leaves your inventory and the upgrade/modification never occurs until submit is mutually clicked. This also makes houses more valuable since you can have tables right next to each other whereas in most cities they are spread out.

Dasovaruilos · December 2017

I have to say I actually feel the opposite. This last patch made crafting a vital aspect for every part of the game.

Stamina DPS for PvE needs Hunding's and Night Mother's Gaze all the time. I basically craft a dagger or axe of one of those sets every other day. Demand was so high that I even bought the stations for my house.

Magicka DPS needs Julianos all the time too. Plus I'm always crafting Enchanting glyphs for Mag characters as well.

For PvP, Shackebreaker is in almost every build, Fortified Brass is really strong and I still craft Seducer and Kagrenac's Hope frequently.

I also have people asking for Nirn stuff every single day too.

Honestly I think crafting has been more active than it has ever been since the days of TBS as the meta for end game.

Regarding the bound-on-transmute, I can understand the disappointment. I would not make it bound when you transmute, but I completely understand ZOS on the matter. They want people to invest time in the game.

Silver_Strider · December 2017

I do see a lot of people request crafters to make things. 90% of the time though, these people have no idea what set/style/trait/etc they want, don't have the mats and believe 10k or less is enough to justify your mat usage. It's more annoying than it's worth and I doubt Transmog will help that in any way. In fact, I see it being more of a pain as now people are just going to use crafter's (if applicable) as a fashion closet, changing styles til they find the one they like.

Not worth it IMO.

Emma_Overload · December 2017

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Melodramatic title, I know.

Ever since One Tamriel, crafters have been becoming more and more irrelevant with each update...

LOL, man, you can stop right there.

Crafters have NEVER been relevant in ESO. There was maybe like a period of 1 month after Twice Born Star came out that players actually payed crafters to make stuff for them.

Nothing ZOS could do now could make crafting any worse.

ThePrinceOfBargains · December 2017

VaranisArano wrote: »

ThePrinceOfBargains wrote: »

There are a few unique styles in the game that will probably never be craftable, such as Abnur Tharn’s Staff. I’d rather be able to transmogrify those than make a source of easy gold for crafters. How are writs not enough incentive to craft?

You can get a staff that looks like Abnur Tharn's from a dolmen boss. https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/volars-crescent-staff-2/

I’m aware; I actually have two of those. I was hoping to transmog the Maelstrom Staff into that style, though.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2017

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

I agree worth the OP. I'm hoping that the bound system could be changed to limit equipping instead of trading. This small change would allow crafters to upgrade, transmute or transmog already bound items (while remaining useless to the person recieving other than trading back for gold).

Slightly harder change is to add a new option to people when in proximity to a crafting table that gives a more secure upgrade option because the item never leaves your inventory and the upgrade/modification never occurs until submit is mutually clicked. This also makes houses more valuable since you can have tables right next to each other whereas in most cities they are spread out.

You could argue that is P2W and by the 7 divines people would. I know this crap gets banded about these forums at the slightest thing, but there really is nothing to stop people buying a transmuting table for whatever they sell for in the housing editor and raking in the gold. It's not a biggie imo, but you know the crying that goes on around here regarding less insignificant things that are in no shape or form P2W.

Izaki · December 2017

Julianos, Hunding's, Night Mother's Gaze and Eternal Hunt. Enough said.

Dapper Dinosaur · December 2017

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Melodramatic title, I know.

Ever since One Tamriel, crafters have been becoming more and more irrelevant with each update...

LOL, man, you can stop right there.

Crafters have NEVER been relevant in ESO. There was maybe like a period of 1 month after Twice Born Star came out that players actually payed crafters to make stuff for them.

Nothing ZOS could do now could make crafting any worse.

As someone that took up crafting as an in-game hobby from launch on console and was one of the most advanced non-transfer crafters for well over a year and a half, you are incorrect. One Tamriel is what killed the crafting business due to the sudden influx of dozens of sets that previously didn't scale to champion 160. As soon as that update came out, the number of people requesting crafted sets in chat took a nosedive from several each day to one every other day, and all of my longtime clients vaporized overnight.

It's never recovered.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2017

The opportunity isn’t really with transmog for crafters either way. The opportunity is with crafted sets...see the comment above.

That’s been the case from day one.

Now if transmog were instead custom crafted disguise that was a permanent costume then yes but it doesn’t sound like that’s what’s being offered

eso_lags · December 2017

@Dapper Dinosaur this is true in some ways.. I mean crafting is nowhere near as valued as it used to be, but i still see people asking for gear. Deffinatly not as much though. The other thing here is with furnishings; number one, the only stuff people want is the EXTREMELY hard stuff to find (redguard grill, redguard bench arc etc..), usually. And number two, the only outlet for a furnisher seems to be to either make everything you can create and put it in a house, like a yardsale (verrryyy expensive BTW), or to post on traders..

When i post like "furnisher for hire, 800+ furnishings known", or something like that, no one bites. I think this is because not anyone who is trying to decorate a house is not sitting in areas looking for a funrnisher. Or maybe its just not that popular.. Linking stuff helps too, but a lot of the time people end up thinking its the recipe LOL...

Anyway @Dapper Dinosaur i would look forward to spell crafting. HOPEFULLY if its done (and done right) then those of us who work really hard and learn every spell that spell crafting has to offer will be able to make good money making spells... Thats how you kick start the crafting economy more i think.. And what you're saying about the transmorg (or whatever its called) system as well.. Im just hoping that they do spell crafting, like they said they would, and that they do it right..

Betsararie · December 2017

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Not only are almost none of the crafted sets used much at all anymore

This just isn't even close to true. What a ridiculous premise.

Stopped reading after this because I couldn't stomach it....

ErilAq · December 2017

As far as Transmog can go, I would like to see the Crafter be able to create a "template" piece (using the same materials a normal piece would require) and have the option to "slot" that template to your piece to change the appearance.

For example: I have a Breton chestpiece, but I want an Iron Daedric look, so I either craft the chestpiece "template" using 10 iron bars and a daedra heart, or buy the piece off a crafter who has done that. That way crafters benefit, the market isn't upended too much, and the pieces themselves are accessible to the entire playerbase. Will it happen that way? Probably not, but I would be super happy if it did.

WrathOfInnos · December 2017

I think the intent is to make everyone want to level crafting skills and learn motifs. I doubt the devs care much about your ability to make profit from transmog. Incentive to craft goes up with every update, meaning more crafters. More supply and less demand results in lower prices on crafted goods.