Returning to ESO Build Questions.

Kambo · December 2017

I've been absent from the game for a while and came back recently, created a new character and wanted to know a few things. Most of these I've gathered information on but can't figure out definitively as there are varying opinions and factors to them.

Back on my original character I ran Heavy Armor Stamina Damage DK (kind of a dumb idea). I equipped this character with cp160 Dual Wield Swords and Hunding's Rage Armor, but decided a while before I stopped playing to switch to Medium Armor. My plan back then was to train up Medium Armor on that character and make a new cp160 Hunding's Rage set with it, but as I've decided to simply start over with a new character it seems like popular opinions and the "meta" have changed quite a bit since I last played.

Eager to find what's considered the "meta" of Dual Wield Stamina Damage DKs I went and looked around at a few builds to get an idea of what would be beneficial to get. While I know it's a better idea to develop my own build which suits my playstyle and everything I can't help but if wonder Hunding's Rage is still a good set to get for cp160, as well as keep. I'm not a fan of farming for drops so I always took the route of crafting my own gear, which back when I last played was said to be the best idea, but it seems like there's a bit of a divide between what's best to get. Drops or Crafted Gear? On this same note I'm not sure what might be a good Champion Point setup for my new character.

My new character is a Dunmer Dual Wield Medium Armor Stamina Damage DK (that was a mouthful). Doing some research I learned that Dunmer might be a better choice for a Magicka DK, rather than a Stamina DK. I believe Dunmer works really well for both, as I saw Dunmer racial passives grant bonuses to both Stamina and Magicka, though I'm still not sure.

I'm also a bit confused about trait choices I've seen across these builds. The most prominent I've seen is Divines and Sharpened. Sharpened I understand as that was the "meta" back when I last played as well. However I don't know what makes Divines a better choice than any of the other traits. It boosts Mundus Stone effects, but I don't see how that's much better than Well Fitted, Impenetrable and even Reinforced.

With all of that out of the way I can finally get to the sweet and simple questions.

Is Dunmer a good choice for a Stamina DK build?

Is Hunding's Rage still a good set to craft and keep into end-game content? If not what would be a better crafted choice for my character?

What makes Drops more valuable than Crafted and vice versa?

Why is Divines the staple choice I've seen for Stamina DK builds?

What is a good way to distribute my Champion Points on my new character?

I would appreciate detailed (and easily understandable) answers, but any insight is appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

EDIT: Looking around the forums it seems like Stamina DK got nerfed into the ground or something. So I have another question now.

If everything I'm seeing about Stamina DK is true then should I just switch to a Magicka DK? And if so what would be a good setup in terms of gear, weapon choice, champion point distribution, etc?

VaranisArano · December 2017

Okay, so if you want to play a Stam DK, play a Stam DK. "Nerfed to the ground" in forum speak means "slightly less optimal than it was a week ago for top tier DPS content but totally fine for ordinary players". If you want to play a Stam DK, relax, they're in fine shape. Dunmer will also make a great MagDK, but MagDKs also tend to get the "our build was slightly changed and DPS is slightly lower the sky is falling" thing on the forums so I guess my point is play what you want and take the forums with a grain of salt.

Hunding's Rage is generally a solid choice for stam builds. It may not be absolute BIS in every situation, but its a solid choice.

Dropped gear varies from overland zone drops (that you can buy), dropped sets in dungeons (you'll have to farm them but you can trade in the group you ran with), and dropped sets from trials (same mechanism as dungeons only harder content). So generally you start with crafted and overland gear sets, until you can farm the sets you want from dungoens and trials. There are several really good crafted and overland sets of medium armor (I like Hundings Rage, night Mother's Gaze, Spriggans, and Briarheart) that work well to get you into dungeons and trials if there is gear there that you want for your build.

Traits: Sharpened is still good for weapons if you aren't running trials where the boss and mobs will have full penetration already from group buffs. Divines is still good for boosting general DPS from improving mundus stones unless: Impenetrable for PVP, Sturdy for tanks who need extra block cost reduction, Well-fitted if you need to do a lot of running. Reinforced will just give you extra armor, so I've always found that pretty meh. You can run Infused on a few big pieces like the chest and legs if you need extra resources for some reason.

Race: Dunmer will be fine, because outside of top-tier DPS tests, race doesn't make a big difference. Dunmer does get some bonuses to stamina. If you want to go optimal withyour race, you'd be looking at Redguard, Orc, Imperial, Khajiit or Bosmer, but again, Dunmer will work fine.

Hope that helps!

boombazookajd · December 2017

@VaranisArano always has words of wisdom.

LukeArayo wrote: »

Eager to find what's considered the "meta" of Dual Wield Stamina Damage DKs. I went and looked around at a few builds to get an idea of what would be beneficial to get. While I know it's a better idea to develop my own build which suits my playstyle and everything I can't help but if wonder Hunding's Rage is still a good set to get for cp160, as well as keep. I'm not a fan of farming for drops so I always took the route of crafting my own gear, which back when I last played was said to be the best idea, but it seems like there's a bit of a divide between what's best to get. Drops or Crafted Gear? On this same note I'm not sure what might be a good Champion Point setup for my new character.

For info on the above, see https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-build-pve/#content5

LukeArayo wrote: »

I'm also a bit confused about trait choices I've seen across these builds. The most prominent I've seen is Divines and Sharpened I understand as that was the "meta" back when I last played as well. However I don't know what makes Divines a better choice than any of the other traits. It boosts Mundus Stone effects, but I don't see how that's much better than Well Fitted, Impenetrable and even Reinforced.

Divines on body pieces to increase mundus stone, so if you are a DPS, you'll want to run with the Warrior which increases weapon damage. Each piece equipped with divines will amplify the Warrior.

Well-Fitted reduces the cost of sprinting. Impen is useful in PVP. Reinforced increases armor rating. On weapons you'll want to run Nirnhoned (increases weapon damage) and precise (increase weapon crit).

LukeArayo wrote: »

Is Hunding's Rage still a good set to craft and keep into end-game content? If not what would be a better crafted choice for my character?

Yup. Still the choice of crafted sets for DPS. Very meta. From what I understand, Hundings Rage and Night Mothers Gaze are the top choices for DPS.

LukeArayo wrote: »

What makes Drops more valuable than Crafted and vice versa?

Monster sets, Velidreth. Drop sets, Vicious Serpent (from Sanctum Ophidia), and Twice Fanged are all sets in Alcast's stamina DD build that drop. Sunderflame is also a useful dropped set for early endgame and there is a neat build that uses Shadow of the Red Mountain out there too, if you want a set that shoots fireballs through wall (ok, this has been fixed) but it's a cool build.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/373570/eruption-stamina-dk-pve-dd-vma-build-cwc-vhof-approved

LukeArayo wrote: »

Why is Divines the staple choice I've seen for Stamina DK builds?

mundus stone effects.

LukeArayo wrote: »

What is a good way to distribute my Champion Points on my new character?

See the link to Alcast's build.

LukeArayo wrote: »

EDIT: Looking around the forums it seems like Stamina DK got nerfed into the ground or something. So I have another question now.

If everything I'm seeing about Stamina DK is true then should I just switch to a Magicka DK? And if so what would be a good setup in terms of gear, weapon choice, champion point distribution, etc?

Like Varanis said, if you believe the forums the sky is falling, PvE content has been nerfed because of PvP, PvP has been nerfed to buff PvP, blah blah blah. It's not much more than a whole lot of complaining.

I myself am running on off meta Dunmer DPS stamDK. I won't be challenging the leaderboards and if you aren't concerned about that, then you're fine. Like Varanis said, don't read much into forum talk, in reality you can run whatever makes you happy but if you are interested in the meta, Alcast's build is still the rule from what I understand.

Welcome back!

Edited for links

Kambo · December 2017

This info is definitely a big help. Since I posted this I've been doing some more research on the subject and have a couple more curiosities that I could use opinions on.

I see that people tend to mix a piece of Light and Heavy armor into their sets. I assume this is to get some magicka and health bonuses and I've also seen people say it's based on personal preference, so I assume running all Medium will be just fine.

Back when I last played my friend's plan was to get 5 Hunding's Rage and 2 Night Mother's Gaze, but Spriggans is a pretty good choice too for the max stamina bonus. Although I believe that Night Mother's Gaze would be slightly more beneficial since, presumably, you'll be loading your armor with max stamina glyphs and the extra weapon crit that Night Mother's provides could be beneficial.

Back on my other character I was interested in the Valkyn Skoria monster set. I was always interested in the 2 piece bonus of it. Although I'm unsure about the health bonus on it. I heard from somewhere that it changes from magicka/stamina/health based on what type of armor you're using.

Really my main concern about Drops vs Crafted is whether or not it would work just fine to keep a crafted set the entire game, including for Dungeons and Trials, assuming someone doesn't want to grind Dungeons and Trials for a set they want.

And lastly, a question. What else would you recommend for weapon traits?

VaranisArano · December 2017

Generally when you see people running a mix of armor weights, its either because of the armor passives that are useful or because they want the Undaunted passive that gives a bonus for wearing different weights of armor. Running all medium is perfectly viable as a stamina DPS, though if you find yourself wanting to be a little tankier, you can go 5med/2heavy or for the Undaunted 5med/1light/1heavy. Its pretty easy to use monster sets for those odd pieces since those are 2-piece head and shoulder (knee and toes, lol) sets.

Hundings Rage is a fine set for all content, especially if you are looking for a set to play in, do dungeons or get started with trials in. (That's the thing with trials gear, you have to do the trial to get the gear that drops from the trial). Night Mother's Gaze is great for PUGing dungeons, but in a trials setting with a guild group, you'll probably have that group working out who's providing what sources of penetration to make sure the group has as much penetration as they need at all times. If you want to do trials, I highly recommend trying to find a guild that will help you out as you are learning, but crafted and overland gear is more than sufficient for overland questing, normal and veteran dungeons, and trials. Generally stam builds run around 50-60% percent weapon crit, if that helps you judge where you want to be.

Valkyn Skoria is an excellent set if you are using a lot of damage over time skills (DOTs are Stam DKs' bread and butter, so you'll be golden+ that fire damage from Dunmer) and while the 1-piece health bonus won't change, the enchantment on the helm/shoulder will change based on whether you have a heavy, light, or medium helm/shoulder. However, those enchantments can be changed if you want so you can run whatever combo of medium, heavy or light you want and put max stam glyphs on them all.

Weapon Traits are situational.
If you need more penetration and aren't with a trial group that's already providing maxed penetration, sharpened is good.
If you use enchantments for your build, infused or charged can be useful (usually more situational, like tanks using the crushing enchantment with the Torug's Pact set to have little to no cooldown).
If you need more weapon/spell damage, nirnhoned. This will cost a little more because nirncrux the style mat is rarer.
If you need more weapon critical, precise.

Kambo · December 2017

This is all such great information. it's all been very helpful. Thanks so much guys!

boombazookajd · December 2017

Don't feel pressured to run a meta set. Personally, I want to have a good looking set so for me, that kills all the monster sets, save for Valkyn Skoria.

Another drop set that has some usefulness is Toothrow from Wayrest Sewers.

I've taken the stance that as a DD, as long as things die and you don't, you're doing your job. It's not until trials or Vet Dungeons that you'll want a built to the nth-degree build for absolute max DPS anyway. Even then, if you're having fun and killing things, what does it really matter?

Most of the forum posts are geared for finding BIS gear, or complaining that PvE needs to be nerfed for the benefit of PvP or vice versa.

One thing you should keep in mind is that you'll want to avoid dual swords. I guess they are lagging behind dual daggers or a dagger and an axe in terms of DPS but again, the difference is minimal (I believe the stated difference is 3%).

Kambo · December 2017

boombazookajd wrote: »

One thing you should keep in mind is that you'll want to avoid dual swords. I guess they are lagging behind dual daggers or a dagger and an axe in terms of DPS but again, the difference is minimal (I believe the stated difference is 3%).

What about a sword and dagger?

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

for pve stamDK is the best stamina spec, 2 high damage stamina dots, good self buffs and easy to sustain too.
for pvp its literally the absolute worst thing you can play out of all possible combinations in the game.

boombazookajd · December 2017

LukeArayo wrote: »

boombazookajd wrote: »

One thing you should keep in mind is that you'll want to avoid dual swords. I guess they are lagging behind dual daggers or a dagger and an axe in terms of DPS but again, the difference is minimal (I believe the stated difference is 3%).

What about a sword and dagger?

mathematically speaking (and from what I can gather from this very detailed thread) is that swords are always behind in any combo.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380834/sword-could-use-a-small-buff-twin-blade-and-blunt

It has to do with Twin Blade and Blunt needing a small buff on swords as they lag behind axes and daggers in any combo.

I wanted to rock two swords, I thought it looked cool, same with two axes. What I've learned though is that the daggers are nearly the size of swords (maybe my toon is a bit on the small side) and not as small as what you'd think a dagger is. I want to see my toon swinging swords around, slicing up bad guys or hacking them up with two axes. Once I learned that daggers still look good (I'm one for looks), I switched to two daggers.

Again, this is all meta stuff. In the end, if you want to rock a sword and a dagger, nothing is stopping you and you're likely only missing out on a few percentage points of DPS which you won't notice unless you're in vet content or trials.

Kambo · December 2017

boombazookajd wrote: »

Again, this is all meta stuff. In the end, if you want to rock a sword and a dagger, nothing is stopping you and you're likely only missing out on a few percentage points of DPS which you won't notice unless you're in vet content or trials.

I don't mind using dual daggers, they're just smaller blades I suppose. I will miss the look of sword and dagger though. Let's hope swords get buffed with twin blade and blunt sometime soon. Good thing dual wield doesn't really affect each individual weapon, which makes switching between what you want to use easier.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

for pve stamDK is the best stamina spec, 2 high damage stamina dots, good self buffs and easy to sustain too.
for pvp its literally the absolute worst thing you can play out of all possible combinations in the game.

How you described it for PvP is a bit broad. I used to go into Cyrodiil and the Imperial City pretty often to do some radiant quests (this is back before one tamriel, so I had to grind out exp and levels) and DK always underperformed compared to other choices. Even Magicka DK. If there's one thing I know about PvP it's that if you run into a Nightblade while you're alone then you should just accept your death.

boombazookajd · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

for pve stamDK is the best stamina spec, 2 high damage stamina dots, good self buffs and easy to sustain too.
for pvp its literally the absolute worst thing you can play out of all possible combinations in the game.

How you described it for PvP is a bit broad. I used to go into Cyrodiil and the Imperial City pretty often to do some radiant quests (this is back before one tamriel, so I had to grind out exp and levels) and DK always underperformed compared to other choices. Even Magicka DK. If there's one thing I know about PvP it's that if you run into a Nightblade while you're alone then you should just accept your death.[/quote]

stamDK apparently is dead in PvP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379885/stam-dk-is-dead#latest

I don't PvP with my stamDK and if I did, I wouldn't know the difference honestly. I'd die a lot I presume. So this is just from me being an insomniac and reading the forums all night.

Are you on PC/PS4/XB? NA or EU?

Kambo · December 2017

boombazookajd wrote: »

I don't PvP with my stamDK and if I did, I wouldn't know the difference honestly. I'd die a lot I presume. So this is just from me being an insomniac and reading the forums all night.

Are you on PC/PS4/XB? NA or EU?

First) Stam DK PvP sounds pretty much the same as when I last did any PvP in Cyrodiil or the Imperial City. Even then I didn't play PvP often enough to really care about what spot DK was in, so I just rolled with whatever and didn't pay any mind to whether I was weak or strong in PvP. At this point everyone who plays PvP more than PvE has geared and practiced specifically for it, so most enemy players you run into will most likely kill you unless you have a friend or two.

Second) I don't know if you're asking Me or Ragnarock, but I'm PC NA.

Side Note) I got a pair of enchanted axes while leveling and I actually like the look much more than I thought I would. So weapon choice for me will either be Dual Daggers, Dual Axes, or Dual Axe and Dagger. At least until Sword and Dagger becomes more viable.

boombazookajd · December 2017

LukeArayo wrote: »

boombazookajd wrote: »

I don't PvP with my stamDK and if I did, I wouldn't know the difference honestly. I'd die a lot I presume. So this is just from me being an insomniac and reading the forums all night.

Are you on PC/PS4/XB? NA or EU?

First) Stam DK PvP sounds pretty much the same as when I last did any PvP in Cyrodiil or the Imperial City. Even then I didn't play PvP often enough to really care about what spot DK was in, so I just rolled with whatever and didn't pay any mind to whether I was weak or strong in PvP. At this point everyone who plays PvP more than PvE has geared and practiced specifically for it, so most enemy players you run into will most likely kill you unless you have a friend or two.

Second) I don't know if you're asking Me or Ragnarock, but I'm PC NA.

Side Note) I got a pair of enchanted axes while leveling and I actually like the look much more than I thought I would. So weapon choice for me will either be Dual Daggers, Dual Axes, or Dual Axe and Dagger. At least until Sword and Dagger becomes more viable.

I was asking you. I'm always looking for people to run with. An axe and dagger is a decent combo as well. I ran with it for a little bit until I picked up a purple whatever it was called dagger that outperformed my axe. Once I hit 160 I'll be far more concerned with my gear.

Kambo · December 2017

Okay I've been "studying" Alcast's Stam DK build and had a thought about something.

While I'm sure Noxious Breath is a great choice for more DoT I got curious about the Dunmer racial passives and began to think "If I pick Engulfing Flames instead the initial damage of it would be higher thanks to the Dunmer passives and maybe the flame damage left from the ability would deal more damage as well thanks to the bonus effect the morph has, as well as the Dunmer passives."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm genuinely curious about this.

VaranisArano · December 2017

LukeArayo wrote: »

Okay I've been "studying" Alcast's Stam DK build and had a thought about something.

While I'm sure Noxious Breath is a great choice for more DoT I got curious about the Dunmer racial passives and began to think "If I pick Engulfing Flames instead the initial damage of it would be higher thanks to the Dunmer passives and maybe the flame damage left from the ability would deal more damage as well thanks to the bonus effect the morph has, as well as the Dunmer passives."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm genuinely curious about this.

It might initially seem that way, but the stam version will end up stronger on a StamDK for a couple of reasons.
1. its a stamina ability, so it will get stronger the more stamina you have and the more weapon power you have, which you want as a stamina-based character. Engulfing flames would get stronger with more magicka and spell power, which you will have a lot less of as a stamina character.
2. Its a poison ability, which as a stamina character you'll be putting CP points that buff your poison damage to increase things like Poison Injection in Bow and Venomous Claw as two powerful DOTs. So taking the stamina morph Noxious Breath tripe dips on those CP benefits for your DOTs, whereas you'd have to put points into Elemental damage if you go with Engulfing that probably aren't buffing much else in your build.
3. It applies major fracture as an AOE, which is a pretty nice boost to your ability to do damage to weakened enemies.

So in general, noxious breath is a better choice for a stamina character because it builds off of the strengths already in the build: max stamina, weapon power, buffs to poison damage from Champion points. As a DK, you'll get extra poison damage from your passives too.
Engulfing flames is a good skill and not a terrible choice because of those Dunmer racial passives for flame damage and DK flame damage passives, but it won't benefit from the rest of the build unless you go more hybrid to boost spell power and elemental damage from Champion Points.
The flame skill you DO want is Flames of Oblivion, because that scales off of max health, not magicka, and it grants you major savagery for increased weapon crit.

boombazookajd · December 2017

VaranisArano wrote: »

It might initially seem that way, but the stam version will end up stronger on a StamDK for a couple of reasons.

1. its a stamina ability, so it will get stronger the more stamina you have and the more weapon power you have, which you want as a stamina-based character. Engulfing flames would get stronger with more magicka and spell power, which you will have a lot less of as a stamina character.
2. Its a poison ability, which as a stamina character you'll be putting CP points that buff your poison damage to increase things like Poison Injection in Bow and Venomous Claw as two powerful DOTs. So taking the stamina morph Noxious Breath tripe dips on those CP benefits for your DOTs, whereas you'd have to put points into Elemental damage if you go with Engulfing that probably aren't buffing much else in your build.
3. It applies major fracture as an AOE, which is a pretty nice boost to your ability to do damage to weakened enemies.

So in general, noxious breath is a better choice for a stamina character because it builds off of the strengths already in the build: max stamina, weapon power, buffs to poison damage from Champion points. As a DK, you'll get extra poison damage from your passives too.
Engulfing flames is a good skill and not a terrible choice because of those Dunmer racial passives for flame damage and DK flame damage passives, but it won't benefit from the rest of the build unless you go more hybrid to boost spell power and elemental damage from Champion Points.
The flame skill you DO want is Flames of Oblivion, because that scales off of max health, not magicka, and it grants you major savagery for increased weapon crit.

+1.

Definitely want noxious breath. You'll want Major Fracture and its a cone so you can pretty much nail a whole group of adds with it. As Varanis said, you'll be putting CP's into Thaumaturge and Mighty for the DoT and poison increase.

Flames of Oblivion (the morph of Inferno) is a great DoT. Major Savagery is a must have.

Major Brutality is also must have, ideally from Ingenious Weapons. You can also get it from Hidden Blade(Shrouded Daggers/Flying Blade) but Ingenious Weapons is superior as it buffs the entire group, both spell damage and weapon damage. Molten Armaments is also a nice morph as it buffs the group and increases your Heavy Attacks by a whopping 40%.

This is nice in the current Heavy Attack weave meta when you pop over to your front bar and start dishing out some serious pain in the name of Queen and Country.