Irylia wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorc has open world mobility going for it, and that's about it

Those gap close spam snares and Roots/slows sure help that mobility.

Pretty sure any Stam class is faster and has the ability to pursue for less resources than the sorc can spend trying to be mobile.

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Yes, strongest class confirmed, #nerfsorc

The only place where magsorc is decent - zerg surfing and kill stealing... The only place where sorc execute is used.

P.S. gitgud.

I'm not about nerf sorcs but I feel his pain tbh. But a good sorc will time the execute with their burst so it goes off the second you go under 20%

My personal opinion. For them to make sorcs not *** again. Either return frags to how they were or increase ward duration.

Derra wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Alfie2072 wrote: »

(warning, salty post from a salty man thats over dying to instant sorc mages wrath explosion)
this ability is *** stupid, if its on you and you get low health you are 100% dead, ive even had it kill me above 40% health before, its stupid
i vote give sorcs the ability to stun people with frags & make their execute the same as all the other executes

No no no. The forums were exploding about an execute that was a ranged channel and that effectively locked the caster down for over 2 seconds, rendering the caster vulnerable to interrupts, CCs, bursts and what not (deducting the entire cost of the cast if interrupted and useless) while the victim could block the incoming channel or if possible move out of range.

Oh, this is RD trauma all over again. I'd laugh if I didn't find it so pathetic.

Radiant can not be dodged, deals significantly higher damage than fury outside execute range (which is much larger to begin with). Blocking it costs a lot of stamina and slows you down and the block must be kept up permanently, which makes breaking LOS more difficult. Purging it doesn't help because it can be reapplied instantly. To top it off, it even ignored LOS most of the time when it was being introduced.
In the end, no decent player will spam either of them on targets above 20%-30% HP, but in an outnumbered situation, only one of them becomes a problem due to lack of counters.

Nice joke man. Radiant at 0% enemy-HP and full magicka does less damage than impale at 25% and mages fury at 20%.

regarding mages fury: it effectively reduces your HP by 20% in pvp...i don't think that's a good execute mechanic at all.

Idk really. Mages wrath explosion is blockable and considered a projectile for that matter - meaning it´s basically useless against anyone with sword and board equipped (that´s not exactly rare in todays pvp meta).
It´s also rather useless to spam against shield builds as it does not deal enough dmg compared to executioner or impale/killers.

The only scenario where it shines is when outnumbering a target.

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I heard once that good players dont get killed by mages wrath.

Destruent wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Alfie2072 wrote: »

(warning, salty post from a salty man thats over dying to instant sorc mages wrath explosion)
this ability is *** stupid, if its on you and you get low health you are 100% dead, ive even had it kill me above 40% health before, its stupid
i vote give sorcs the ability to stun people with frags & make their execute the same as all the other executes

No no no. The forums were exploding about an execute that was a ranged channel and that effectively locked the caster down for over 2 seconds, rendering the caster vulnerable to interrupts, CCs, bursts and what not (deducting the entire cost of the cast if interrupted and useless) while the victim could block the incoming channel or if possible move out of range.

Oh, this is RD trauma all over again. I'd laugh if I didn't find it so pathetic.

Radiant can not be dodged, deals significantly higher damage than fury outside execute range (which is much larger to begin with). Blocking it costs a lot of stamina and slows you down and the block must be kept up permanently, which makes breaking LOS more difficult. Purging it doesn't help because it can be reapplied instantly. To top it off, it even ignored LOS most of the time when it was being introduced.
In the end, no decent player will spam either of them on targets above 20%-30% HP, but in an outnumbered situation, only one of them becomes a problem due to lack of counters.

Nice joke man. Radiant at 0% enemy-HP and full magicka does less damage than impale at 25% and mages fury at 20%.

regarding mages fury: it effectively reduces your HP by 20% in pvp...i don't think that's a good execute mechanic at all.

VaranisArano wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Alfie2072 wrote: »

(warning, salty post from a salty man thats over dying to instant sorc mages wrath explosion)
this ability is *** stupid, if its on you and you get low health you are 100% dead, ive even had it kill me above 40% health before, its stupid
i vote give sorcs the ability to stun people with frags & make their execute the same as all the other executes

No no no. The forums were exploding about an execute that was a ranged channel and that effectively locked the caster down for over 2 seconds, rendering the caster vulnerable to interrupts, CCs, bursts and what not (deducting the entire cost of the cast if interrupted and useless) while the victim could block the incoming channel or if possible move out of range.

Oh, this is RD trauma all over again. I'd laugh if I didn't find it so pathetic.

Radiant can not be dodged, deals significantly higher damage than fury outside execute range (which is much larger to begin with). Blocking it costs a lot of stamina and slows you down and the block must be kept up permanently, which makes breaking LOS more difficult. Purging it doesn't help because it can be reapplied instantly. To top it off, it even ignored LOS most of the time when it was being introduced.
In the end, no decent player will spam either of them on targets above 20%-30% HP, but in an outnumbered situation, only one of them becomes a problem due to lack of counters.

Yeah an execute becoming a problem only when outnumbered is indeed a problem. Zos needs to take a long look at the executes again and fix what's broken, meaning they should be as effective in 1v1 situations as any other execute. Right.

Problem in the sense of balance problem; no counter play means no fighting chance.
Though I guess there's no arguing with you.
FYI, Fury mostly isn't even used in dueling. Make of that what you will.

There's very little counterplay against any properly done execute. The counterplay is to stay out of execute range. So if you are fighting a sorc, you adapt because you know what the execute range on a sorc is and start proactively healing yourself before to get in their execute range. If you are used to starting your recovery at 20% health on other classes, adjust and start your recovery earlier when you know you are fighting a sorc. Its not like someone will suddenly surprise you with "oh, I'm a sorc, ha ha!" at 20%.

And if your opponent, knowing that people know they're a sorc, is properly prepared to burst you down starting at say 40% to bring you into execute range without giving you time for counterplay, well, that's good tactics on the sorc's part. Maybe you should look at what burst combo is bringing you done and adapt accordingly or maybe you should look at your build.

If the execute if a problem when fighting outnumbered, well, I have bad news for you. Anything, applied enough times, is going to kill you when you are outnumbered. Even if ZOS removed all the executes from the game, they'd run you down, corner you, and bash you to death with aoes ticking. If you want to 1vX, complain about executes all you want, but I've got no sympathy for it.

There is plenty counterplay against executes, including Fury. Now go back and read my posts, I was talking about RD in an outnumbred situation.

Fair enough, I missed the part where you were talking about Radiant Destruction.

I still think the last part of my post applies:
"If the execute if a problem when fighting outnumbered, well, I have bad news for you. Anything, applied enough times, is going to kill you when you are outnumbered. Even if ZOS removed all the executes from the game, they'd run you down, corner you, and bash you to death with aoes ticking. If you want to 1vX, complain about executes all you want, but I've got no sympathy for it."

That's true of Radiant Destruction or any other execute, or heck, any other skill when fighting outnumbered. Someone in the back of that group is going to be tagging you with something that will get through, and it'll kill you.

paallterrain148 wrote: »

I hate this skill for one reason. It can be applied to an unlimited number of enemies. I'm so tired of getting 8 kills and 30 assists. It's horrendously OP for kill stealing in BGs.

I'd be fine with a range increase, say 25% or a slight damage buff if they would limit it to 1 enemy.

VaranisArano wrote: »

In the situation we are talking about, we are specifically talking about how executes work against you when you are outnumbered. Like in a 1vX situation or a 3v10 or something. "Counterplay" is considerably different in those situations than it is in a 1v1 and that's the point I'm trying to make.

In an outnumbered situation, your counterplay has to be making really good use of LOS and picking that group apart so you don't have massive amounts of incoming damage to mitigate and you can focus down one or two targets at a time. If you get yourself locked down where the group can pour damage onto you, of course there's no counterplay to an execute or to anything else they throw at you. You got yourself attacked by a larger group all at once, what do you expect to happen? Permablocking tanks get bashed to death all the time when they fail to escape.

An execute isn't the problem. Or rather, its only a problem because if the 1vXer gets locked down and is taking enough damage for the executes to come into play, they already failed to pull off a successful 1vX fight. So its not that there's no counterplay to an execute when outnumbered. Rather its that there's very little counterplay to allowing yourself to be locked down and focused by a larger group of players. Once you've been locked down and focused, chances are that something is going to kill you. 1vxing is all about avoiding being locked and focused by the entire group at once, and instead dealing with the group in onesies and twosies through LOS and picking the group apart.

VaranisArano wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In the situation we are talking about, we are specifically talking about how executes work against you when you are outnumbered. Like in a 1vX situation or a 3v10 or something. "Counterplay" is considerably different in those situations than it is in a 1v1 and that's the point I'm trying to make.

In an outnumbered situation, your counterplay has to be making really good use of LOS and picking that group apart so you don't have massive amounts of incoming damage to mitigate and you can focus down one or two targets at a time. If you get yourself locked down where the group can pour damage onto you, of course there's no counterplay to an execute or to anything else they throw at you. You got yourself attacked by a larger group all at once, what do you expect to happen? Permablocking tanks get bashed to death all the time when they fail to escape.

An execute isn't the problem. Or rather, its only a problem because if the 1vXer gets locked down and is taking enough damage for the executes to come into play, they already failed to pull off a successful 1vX fight. So its not that there's no counterplay to an execute when outnumbered. Rather its that there's very little counterplay to allowing yourself to be locked down and focused by a larger group of players. Once you've been locked down and focused, chances are that something is going to kill you. 1vxing is all about avoiding being locked and focused by the entire group at once, and instead dealing with the group in onesies and twosies through LOS and picking the group apart.

It's like you just don't want to acknowledge my points. You said anything applied often enough is going to kill me anyway. Well, that's not quite true. Mechanics like roll dodge and BoL allow me to negate an indefinite amount of attacks. More importantly, most skills have enough counters to them that allow me to reduce their effectiveness by such a large amount that is becomes irrelevant in any conceivable situation - including 1 v 10+. Some do not. Telling me it's my fault for getting into such a situation in the first place doesn't help and is also not much of argument as to why it should be the way it is.
Thx for trying to lecture me on 1vX though. But no, my fights don't automatically end once I fall into execute range.

Yeah, I'll admit I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to say that executes should have the same type of counterplay that allows you "to reduce their effectiveness by such a large amount that is becomes irrelevant in any conceivable situation - including 1 v 10+" Because that seems to me to negate the entire point of an execute.

Or are you trying to argue that some executes can be negated and some can't, and therefore all executes should be brought in line with each other? Or is this a "I wanna 1vX, and I hate anything that makes that harder like sorc executes, ZOS should change those" sort of complaint?

If you think I sound like I'm ignoring your points, its probably because I'm not sure what point you are making, I'm trying to cover all the likely bases.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wasn't a single nerf thread dedicated to this skill before Battlegrounds came out with its scoring mechanism.

paallterrain148 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wasn't a single nerf thread dedicated to this skill before Battlegrounds came out with its scoring mechanism.

The harsh truth is we're far more likely to see the skill nerfed then BGs scoring changed. Every sorc should of been pushing for this as soon as they saw just how unbalanced it was, especially in death match. Although I'm not sure what better scoring system could be implemented while still individually assessing players.