PVA - new acronym for long existing defacto reality ignored by so many PVE vs PVP threads

Jacozilla · December 2017

There are existing threads for various PVE v PVP topics like the crystals earned thread, etc. So I'll say nothing about that, and if you have .02 cents about it - go comment in those relevant threads.

My sole point here after reading # of threads lately, is what seems to be fallacy that there are PVE players and PVP players - but no PVA (player vs all). Some PVE/PVP happily co-exist with the other, and some do keyboard warrior exchange. The common theme though in whatever FOTM PVE vs PVP thread is that both sides seem locked in the assumption the two majority sides are PVE and PVP predominant players.

And to be fair, a good # of people self admit on threads that yes - they almost exclusively only engage in PVP play, or PVE play.

But it made me wonder - am I then the super small minority? Or is there a rather large, silent majority who are like me - e.g. do both PVE and PVP, maybe not exact 50-50 split, but reasonable time in both.

I am never for nerfs in general, but even if I were, I wouldn't want PVE players nerfed due to PVP reasons because it would affect me. But I also wouldn't want PVP play nerfed due to PVE reasons because again, it would affect me.

But a lot of the PVE v PVP threads, there are clearly members in both sides who would be just fine if other side got dinged because they self admit they do almost none of the other - or hate it so much it doesn't matter how nerfed it got because they only grudgingly do the minimum needed to get X, before going back to preferred play mode.

Reiterating question again as main topic for this thread though, is there really just the major 2 camps of PVE and PVP? Are players who do reasonable amounts of both not a sizeable demographic? Don't care what we acronym it so I just temporarily labeled it as PVA - but as a member of whatever you want to call this group, it always sucks for me when one of the two modes gets dinged because I'll always end up losing something over it due to engaging in near equal amounts of both.

T4T2FR34K · December 2017

Jacozilla wrote: »

a rather large, silent majority

imo

Undefwun · December 2017

I enjoy PvP and group PvE content (dungeons and trials).. so basically something that involves other players.

I don't understand the intense and often selfish stance from people who place themselves in firmly in one camp only.

To be honest I don't like single player questing... 99% is easy and a time sink (exception would be Maelstrom Arena).
Run over here pick that up.. run over here and talk to that guy now travel over here. Now waste 10 mins clearing trash mobs to get this item.

Maybe because I'm not a lore person, but yeah this us vs them attitude between PvP and PvE players I don't get.

SaintSubwayy · December 2017

I think the main Problem that we get PVE vs PVP posts are, that PVE and PVP arent seperated enough.

If ZOS nerfs / buffs a certain skills because of PVP reasons, it becomes useless / OP in PVE, and the same happens if they nerf / buff skills for PVE reasons.

Furthermore the 2 arent separted in Gear setups, since there's no "PVP only" gear or "PVE only".

Merlin13KAGL · December 2017

While there are several people that do both, I suspect most dedicate more time to one or the other, making them primarily a PvP'er or a PvE'er.

The other problem stems from ZoS themselves, with changes made on one side or the other that inevitably (and often negatively) affect the one or the other.

Sometimes, in the interest of posterity, they just nerf or change the hell out of both sides at once.

Each has their purpose (PvE/PvP, not nerfs and changes

) and each should be of equal importance, but if often doesn't turn out that way. That's why you usually see the division.

Kel · December 2017

I play both and I enjoy both. That's why I get annoyed in those threads when I have an opinion opposite of what's being stated, and get told by someone who I don't even know, that my opinion isn't worth anything because I don't do "x" gameplay. Except I do...
Both have thier ups and downs, and both can be fun and frustrating in thier own right.
But you are not alone. I enjoy both.

Anrose · December 2017

I enjoy both PvP and PvE, but it fluctuates in which one I enjoy more at any particular time.

I think I focus more toward PvP, and I love how PvP fights are always different and dynamic. But sometimes PvP does become monotonous, and I want to do something else with my time.

That’s where I love to clear some hard content, like getting DLC dungeon achievements. Learning PvE fights is fun because it’s like a ballet when all the group members can hit their mark and do what they need to do when they need to do it.

But ultimately, I’m going to go back to spend time in PvP. I don’t like seeing any one side of the game being nerfed because of another side, but it does help me understand WHY something is nerfed when it comes up since I see both sides of the game.

Drummerx04 · December 2017

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

I think the main Problem that we get PVE vs PVP posts are, that PVE and PVP arent seperated enough.

If ZOS nerfs / buffs a certain skills because of PVP reasons, it becomes useless / OP in PVE, and the same happens if they nerf / buff skills for PVE reasons.

Furthermore the 2 arent separted in Gear setups, since there's no "PVP only" gear or "PVE only".

Eh... there are sets that have useful effects only in PvP or PvE. Minor/major slayer, minor/major Aegis, Vicious Death proc only works on players, Heartland reduces damage taken from players only and maybe siege damage, etc.

DeadlyRecluse · December 2017

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?Search=PvX

This isn't a new idea.

zaria · December 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

I think the main Problem that we get PVE vs PVP posts are, that PVE and PVP arent seperated enough.

If ZOS nerfs / buffs a certain skills because of PVP reasons, it becomes useless / OP in PVE, and the same happens if they nerf / buff skills for PVE reasons.

Furthermore the 2 arent separted in Gear setups, since there's no "PVP only" gear or "PVE only".

Eh... there are sets that have useful effects only in PvP or PvE. Minor/major slayer, minor/major Aegis, Vicious Death proc only works on players, Heartland reduces damage taken from players only and maybe siege damage, etc.

Knight slayers 10% of total health as damage only work on players.
Had been surreal if it also worked on bosses by an mistake

vAS HM in less than 10 second

Samadhi · December 2017

Jacozilla wrote: »

...
Reiterating question again as main topic for this thread though, is there really just the major 2 camps of PVE and PVP? Are players who do reasonable amounts of both not a sizeable demographic? Don't care what we acronym it so I just temporarily labeled it as PVA - but as a member of whatever you want to call this group, it always sucks for me when one of the two modes gets dinged because I'll always end up losing something over it due to engaging in near equal amounts of both.

PvA is a sizable enough camp that a genre-defining series exists to cater to us
let's hence-forth refer to ourselves as the Soulsian

But to be more serious, the adamant sentiments that PvE and PvP should not be mixed in ESO
such that things like the Justice system are never seen to completion in the format they were announced (ie: Killable NPC guards but player guard presence)
makes ESO not exactly the most welcoming PvA 'environment'
there is basically Cyrodiil and Imperial City as dedicated areas 'for us' with the rest of the game being divided between the two camps

in ZOS eyes, we are not a dedicated camp of PvA players
we are simply flex players that they can rely upon to consume the majority of content

the reason PvA players do not tend to be as vocal about the impact of changes on one side of the game or the other
is presumably due, in part, to the relative adaptability the PvA frame of reference is based from

Alternatively, think PvA players are more likely to be Explorers
while PvE-centric players are more likely to be Achievers
and PvP-centric players are more likely to be Killers
Not to say the groups are strictly delineated like this, just think there is a tendency to lean in particular ways

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpW2ltDNow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1drDuaQXm_U

valkyrie93 · December 2017

Same, i enjoy both pvp and pve... not sure which one I prefer, it changes. but I've been playing since march this year and i'm pvp rank 27 on my main and trying to do vMA, as well as other pve activities, so I think i play more or less equal amounts of both

VaranisArano · December 2017

I used to be just a PVE player.

I came to ESO from Skyrim, so I played ESO like it was a single player game, just with my real life friends getting to quest with me. Group dungeons? What are those and why would I want to do them? Eventually I got more comfortable and started doing group content, first with friends and then on my own. As I grew in the game, I wanted to do more.

I went to Cyrodiil because I wanted to fish! That's right, the coveted Master Angler achievement requires Cyrodiil fish. Darn you ZOS for putting the ocean fish right in front of the AD gate! So I went into Cyrodiil for the fish, braved the riding simulator, learned which rivers had slaughterfish, got my fish and got out.

I came back for the skyshards. I came back for the quests. And then, gradually, I came back for the PVP. I came back for the organized groups I'd run alongside. Eventually, I found a group who's style I liked and who were happy to train me up to be a decent part of their organized raid and I've been PVPing ever since.

Now I PVP and PVE regularly. I'm not sure what the percentage is anymore because it really varies from week to week. But I have good times doing PVE content (most recently getting my butt kicked by Vet Maelstrom) and doing PVP content (raiding, soloing resources, or zerg surfing on PC/NA Vivec).

So, congratulations, ZOS! Your ploy of requiring players to come to Cyrodiil for fish worked! Slowly but surely, I became a PVPer in addition to the PVE I came to the game for.

Jade1986 · December 2017

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

a rather large, silent majority

imo

Not really, most people in the game do indeed do more than one thing. The people that ONLY do one thing in game are defo the minority.

Drakkdjinn · December 2017

All PvP'ers are PvA by this definition insofar as PvP requires more PvE time to be effective than the reverse scenario.

Katahdin · December 2017

I play and enjoy both pve and pvp.
I think the game is better for having the choice to play both game types.
I get bored doing just one or the other all the time.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2017

Tried playin' PVP.

Hated it.

LordSemaj · December 2017

I think if you're in that "undecided" camp, you should look at which side you feel the need for nerfs more strongly in. Are you upset at how weak your tank is and how OP that sorcerer is? Then you're probably a PVE player. Are you threatening to quit if something isn't done about Nightblades? Then you're probably a PVP player.

Let the hate flow through you... it will guide you to your category.

Mazbt · December 2017

I do both. Keeps things fresh for me. End game pve/questing/farming and solo/small man/large group pvp. All fun.

Dredlord · December 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tried playin' PVP.

Hated it.

What did you hate about it?

Runefang · December 2017

You're not the only one.

I enjoy PvE gameplay much more than PvP.

I enjoy the company of PvPers much more. PvE'rs are often quieter, more focused and serious.

Judas Helviaryn · December 2017

People focus way too much on dividing themselves into categories. The PVP vs PVE thing is something I've only known in ESO at the magnitude it sits, and it really shouldn't happen. People want balance, and they overreach to achieve it in everything they do, whether they realize it or not.

PVP should have some benefits that PVE doesn't have.
PVE should have some benefits that PVP doesn't have.

They shouldn't be considered two mutually exclusive approaches to video gaming. They both belong and should compliment eachother.

FloppyTouch · December 2017

Just the loudest players are pve or pvp

The truth I see in game is that a lot of people take part in both and like both for different reasons.

I find pve relaxing and a great way to make gold and play solo stress free.

PvP is the competitive side of me that like a challenge.

Rainraven · December 2017

I think lots of people do both, but people who like both modes about equally and split their time between the two? It would be interesting to have numbers, just to know.

As far as the forum goes, the minute people start with "what I do is the only true endgame and the pure distillation of gamer skill" or "people who spend their time doing that other thing are the scum that grows on mold when mold turns to evil" is when it gets Us v. Them very quickly.

Jarryzzt · December 2017

In principle, it depends on the game. Or, rather, how the game sets up its PVE and PVP content.

ESO specifically:

- Segregates PVP and PVE content so that you generally don't run the risk of being team-ganked while looking for a shard in a random delve. [Compare and contrast with EVE. Or my favourite PVA MMO of all time, the original Godwars MUD.]

- Has somewhat separate "economics" for PVE and PVP as far as in-game "stuff" players grind for. This is really a catch-all category - inclusive of things such as shards and Mages' Guild books, for example, grinding either of which a) can be time consuming and b) shunts the player into strictly PVE gameplay.

- Can have very different gear and skill setups for PVE and PVP, though I shall be the first to say that I myself am not a build "guru" for this particular game. The point is that there is a cost, in terms of time spent in the inventory and skill allocation screens, to changing from one mode to the other.

- Has different learning curves for PVE and PVP content. In my personal opinion - obviously I cannot prove this without doing a statistically correct survey of a significant portion of the player base.

In other words, ESO strikes me as a game that almost incentivizes people to specialize in PVP or PVE. Or, at least, forces even PVPers to spend quite a bit of their time in PVE grinding out various things. By definition, then, this shouldn't be a game with a substantial PVA "crossover" player base. Some? Of course. Many? Probably. A majority? I highly doubt it.

Banana · December 2017

Words cannot express how much I dislike PVP

Jacozilla · December 2017

I'm not quite always 50-50, but as broad range I can swing back and forth between playing 70-30 PVE or vice versa.

30% is a pretty big chunk, no one would say getting a 30% pay increase is bad, or a 30% pay cut not hugely impactful. Very few ppl get all invested one way or another if you get some lousy 3% raise.

So whether it's a quarter, near half, or sometimes spikes up/down more than half, that makes one invested pretty reasonably to the view that neither mode should be nerfed or quality of life impacted due to extreme partisans of either side.

Basically, I don't think you need anywhere near equality in terms of time played to be equally invested as a PVA player not wanting to see either mode dinged. Even if I only spent 25% of my time in PVP, that would still be a really big chunk, a sizeable enough 'minority' that I would care - a lot - about not having nerfs impact that.

I will say the introduction of Imperial City and Sewers did boost my PVP time though, because it's such a nice mix of PVE and PVP at same time. I can farm telvar stones, do the IC quests, and PVP when it comes up - all at same trip.